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Temp the Revelator

Jason Shackell

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Just a quick point really - how is it that everyone on this board appears to see Shackell as our defensive saviour?  I agree that when I have seen him play (not often, I admit), he looks promising, BUT, this is the Premiership we are talking about.  Drury has, by most people''s admission, struggled to make the step up this season, yet no-one would have picked Shackell ahead of him at the start of the season (I know they play different positions, that''s not my point).  I would love to see Shackell given a chance as much as the next man, but there comes a point where it almost seems like hysteria on here!

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[quote]Just a quick point really - how is it that everyone on this board appears to see Shackell as our defensive saviour? I agree that when I have seen him play (not often, I admit), he looks promising, BU...[/quote]

Great post, and a point I''ve been trying to get across for months.

Yes, Shckell has potential and is a pretty good centre half as he is, but can we honestly expect a 20 yr old with virtually no first team experience even at Div 1 level to save us from relegation in the Premiership? I don''t think so....

The time to bring Shackell in is the beginning of next season, but definitely not now. The side is under increasing pressure with every game and long term this would hinder his development. Its not fair to throw him in under this sort of pressure and expect him to work miracles. Worthy has got this spot on.

Its a case of the grass is always greener for many fans on this board. We''re not winning at th moment, so the players in the reserve team must be the way to get results... its obvious, yeah? NO!! They''re in the reserve team for a reason.

Shacks WILL EVENTUALLY be a great centre half for the club, of that I have little doubt, but throwing him in now is ludicrous. The start of next season is the time my friends... believe me. Trust Worthy on this one.

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Nobody is urging Shackle as a saviour - the rest of the defence is probably inadequate in any case. What we are saying is that he couldn''t do worse - we are conceding so many goals from errors and lack of concentration that it is worth a risk. He is tall, strong and quick, and a good passer out of defence.  He is not haunted by all the past failures this season, and is keen to make a mark. Add all these together, and it suggests that he could improve things.

The other point is that he is the future, the present incumbents, except Doc, are long in the tooth and on the slow side. Whether or not we are relegated, there will have to be some team building, and we could get a measure of his ability at the highest level.

He is thought good enough to be on the bench, he is not let us down in the centre of defence. Surely he is worth a game.

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All this ''Shackell is the answer'' talk drives me mad too... the same thing happened when Holt was playing badly, Mullers became the answer... and when our strikers couldn''t score Hendo, Jarvis and Crow became the answer. Truth is, they were all no better. In fact, they were considerably worse and the same will apply for Shackell. Can you imagine Thierry Henry running at an 18 year old with no Premiership and very little football league experience?

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Its not about him being a saviour, its about trying something different as the defence we have now seem to have lost the plot . If nothing else we gain a bit of pace at the back , give him a go what have we got to lose.

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I think Shacks deserves a ''run out'', he is as ready as he''ll ever be to play as a centre back in our squad. I don''t care about what other folk think about his lack of experience. Watching our current back four - I''d say they are all lacking in experience. Did Everton or Man-ure wait till Rooney reached the ripe old age of 22 before thrusting him into the deep-end?

This young chap has only had one ''mare'' and that was against Palarse last season. He is solid, quick, tall and commanding and good in the air. We must start him in the squad against Keegan''s eleven. I was astonished that Simon Charlton played through injury against Blackboring. If anything, he should have been on the bench with Shackell starting. If a player is injured or carrying an injury, he is not going to perform at a 100%, and for Worthy to allow this to happen, it was in my eyes a diabolical managerial  decision.

Yes if Shacks does play and has a ''mare'', the (pontificating never played footie ever)  experienced armchair managers will say told you so......But, the way that our defence has been currently underperforming, the only way is to play him. We are conceding too many soft goals and we need to stop the rot and we need to do it NOW!  Toodle-pip! ;~) and OTBC.....

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Some good points on both sides on this thread.

I personally would like to see him get a run in the team after the Man City game. The four games after that are Chelsea, Bolton, Arsenal and Man Utd, which we will expect to get nil points from!

At the end of that run, either of two things will have happened.

His confidence will be shot as we have been hammered in every game (which will probably happen without him in the team) or he has done a damn good job and shown us what he can do and restricted Henry to just a couple of goals. Thus boosting his confidence and making him first choice for the rest of the season (and you never know he may pop one in at the other end).

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OK Let''s not do anything to try to remedy the situation.  Shacks may well be worse than we have got, it seems likely we will never know.  But could he be any worse than the leakiest defence in the League ?  He may feel he''s got something to prove whereas Flem''s got nothing to prove everyone knows he can''t cut it at this level, the evidence is there for all to see.

Probably not our saviour but would rather see him given a chance rather than never know.

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The case for Shackell grows with every game. There now really is nothing to lose as it''s obvious our current defending will see us in Div 1 next season. If people want to make the case that he not old enough then Worthy was quite happy to play a 19-yr old with pretty much no premiership/first team experience in midfield at the start of the season.

I think one of the big things in Shackell''s favour is that fact that when he''s played in the centre he''s never let the team down and has kept the likes of Earnshaw and Kleivert quiet

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I''m sorry but I don''t buy this argument that says Shackell can''t play because he doesn''t have any Premiership experience. Why can''t he? Fleming doesn''t have any Premiership experience does he (somebody correct me if I''m wrong - joined from Oldham in 1997)? The only difference is that Fleming is 34 and Shackell is only 22 so he has 12 years more first team experience to draw on.Again this isn''t a good example, but how is it that other teams are prepared to blood their youngsters at this level and not us? Middlesbrough perhaps? Wasn''t Downing a 20 year old unknown until this season? What about Tony McMahon a full back at the same club? What''s the difference?It''s not as if we''re suggesting that he be thrown into a backline along with three other junior players is it. If he''s good enough then he''s old enough. Now it''s like we''re saying he''s not good enough, but how many have actually seen him play in his natural position? Is he good enough? Is he any worse than what we already have?...

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How old was Wayne Rooney when he started for England? The old motto- if you''re good enough you''re old enough. Why can you not play a young defender but its OK to play a young midfielder or striker?

Nigel needs to accept that we have the worst defence in the league, we seem to be shipping more and more goals on a regular basis ((13 in 5 games), so something has to be tried. If it fails we''re probaby no worse off.

Better to try and fail than not to try at all. Give the lad a go, just how bad does it have to get before you do? Otherwise get rid of him as there''s no point having him in the squad if you''re not going to give him a game with the way the defence is at the moment.

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Shackell can do no worse than Fleming. Something needs to be changed as 52 goals conceded so far is shocking. And playing Shackell in the centre this year is something that should be done. you don''t know until you try. And don''t give me all this bo**ocks that you can''t drop Flem. It''s looking likely we are going down with the current defence, so lets have a change and see if it works. If it doesn''t work, well at least we tried all the possible options. If Worthy has no intension of playing Shackell then why hasn''t he put him out on loan.

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Actually Morph you are wrong about Fleming and I will correct you. He played for Oldham in the Premier League for at least one season and maybe more.

With regard to Shackell I think he is definitely a good prospect, but there is potentially something to be lost by playing him and thats his own self confidence.

You only have to look at the treatment dished out to Henderson by a minority of morons in the Norwich crowd (and to Shackell himself when he had a nightmare at Palace last season) to see why Worthy will now think twice about taking a bit of a gamble and playing a young player.

 

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This is a discussion worth having but must been seen in context with the current defensive performances, which by common consent have been quite appalling over the last 10-20 games in particular.

The ONLY squad defender who has not really been given a  chance this season is Shacks.  On the very limited evidence of his first team performances it is impossible to say whether he is up to the task of premiership defending or not.  Yes he has performed well in isolated games (spurs v Keane, Toon v Kluivert, Cardiff v Earnshaw) but had a mare at Palace when played at left back.  

Centre back is an issue for city - whether Worthy can see it or not, living with Alice in Wonderland as the Gaurdian put it, and Flem has been the poorest contributor for some time.   I agree with the maxim if it aint broke dont fix it, but our defence is clearly broke and a fix is desperately needed - doing nothing is not an option.

What I have seen of Shacks suggests that he may be able to do a job for us, but I honestly can not say, hand on heart, whether he is the saviour or just a very naughty boy.  What I feel is that he can not be any worse than we are currently playing with and MAY improve things for us - from where the defence is currently I think that is worth a go; whats the worst that can happen - we conceed another three goals?  As if we havent dont that before this season.

OTBC 

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Drop Flem, Bring in shackell

Eddy----Shackell--Dohery--Brennan

Would like to see brennan, as both Drury and Charlton havnt quite been at home game in - game out.

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I cant agree with dropping charlie - if fit he has been our best defender, particularly when he was playing in the middle, despite the slanging matches he had virtually every week with Flem.

He has not been as good at left back which to me gives some support to my concern that the left back slot was over exposed by having Hux in front of them - drury wasnt playing badly to start with he was simply over worked, which has lead to a drop in confidence and then affecting his performances further.  (A similar thing is happening to Greeno because of the 4 in front of him...)   Brennan has looked ok if unexceptional but does deserve a go but only if charlie is in the middle.

oTBC 

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