Who On Earth Do Celtic Think They Are?

[Paul_CFC 0]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."]Good post Paul_CFC.Hard to say how this one will go. The EPL is awash with cas and every club gets a stupid amount of TV money that Scottish clubs can only dream about. That means that even a smaller club like Norwich can probably beat anything Celtic can offer him on the wages front but that isn''t the only consideration ( or at least it shouldn''t be )As you say Celtic are a huge team in a weak League which guarantees European football. That must be attractive to players. That said players tend to '' fall of the radar '' when they move to Scotland so if Hooper''s as keen on trying to get into the England set-up as people think then he''d do best to move back to England.Celtic would comfortably hold their own in the EPL and Hooper''s done very well up there. He''s clearly a class act.I''d love to see him at Carrow Rd but I''m not holding my breath.[/quote]I agree with what you say, but I think this year has been slightly different, in the way it has seen Celtic put a few players very much on the radar.Obviously that has been solely down to Champions League football. I doubt most people would have heard of Fraser Foster a year ago (Norwich fans apart since he had a spell down here) but he was a virtual unknown, but this year has seen him called up to England squads, practically unheard of that a Scottish based player gets the nod. With Rangers out the picture for a few more years at least (even when they come back, they''ll be miles behind us) Champions League is pretty much guaranteed for a few seasons. There are very few teams across Europe who can offer that.I wouldn''t be that shocked if Hooper was playing for Norwich before the end of the month, I don''t think it would happen, but it is a real possibility.  

[Paul_CFC 0]

Well this is what he has to weigh up. The odds are heavily stacked against us against Juventus, but anything could happen.It could go the other way as well, he scores a hat trick and suddenly the whole of Europe are asking who he is. Who knows what could happen.

[Scrimmage 0]

Remember when Rangers offered less than a million for Grant Holt?

[Paul_CFC 0]

[quote user="Scrimmage "]Remember when Rangers offered less than a million for Grant Holt?[/quote]This still makes me smile.

[Scrimmage 0]

This £5 million offer from Norwich for Hooper is just to get the ball rolling. If we don''t get Graham, then I can see us upping our offer for Hooper to 8 or 10 million.

[......and Smith must score. 1,334]

[quote user="Paul_CFC"][quote user="Scrimmage "]Remember when Rangers offered less than a million for Grant Holt?[/quote]This still makes me smile. [/quote]Bet Holt''s relieved he got out of jail on that one [:D]

[Mickdundee 0]

The trouble is I can''t see many of the so called big clubs down here wanting to take a chance on hooper without him scoring regularly in the epl.

Unfortunately for him the spl is not considered a good enough league nor in effect is the fact that Celtic play in the champions league( without rangers that''s a given.) as essentially a few games a year and a few goals doesn''t prove he can do it week in week out. Anybody can get a decent cup run( see Bradford) and beating somebody once does not make you better than them, we beat Man U and I doubt even the most blinkered of fans wouldn''t say we''re the better team.

So realistically he''ll join a smaller club in the epl like us, and if things go well for him he may get a bigger move he''s certainly young enough,unfortunately celtic are a big club in in support only, not in standard and a step up from scunny, not necessarily the premier league as a whole.

I''m also under no illusion that even if he joins us or another club of similar stature,then we''d be no more than another stepping stone if he does have any international aspirations.

At the moment I see this as a good move for us for him just not necessarily celtic.

Although I''d still probably prefer Danny graham, especially some of the crazy valuations some of your fans think hooper is worth. I think he''s a gamble for us,and anybody else,at much more than we''ve bid.

[Monty13 2,229]

The thing that gets me is, prices are always inflated in January and more than likely Hooper would go for less in the summer especially with only a year left on his contract.

So if I was the club, and Hooper does want to leave for more money, EPL games, International chances etc. (the reason for wanting out is kind of irrelevant, but assuming he does want a move), why keep him?

The Club/Lennon are making all the right noises about Hooper staying and the Champions League run but realistically they know winning the Champions league is very unlikely, they will almost certainly win the domestic League/Cups without Hooper so why not sell him now for more money than in the summer?

I think he will leave this window, weather to us or not. The whole he wont leave because of CL football argument is a complete smokescreen. Celtic are better off selling him now, whether the fans like it or not, and imo if he wants a move they will.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

We are a wee club compared to Celtic, though. Did you see the size of their army at Drury''s testimonial - a match that surely meant nothing to a Celtic supporter? If they played in the (English) Premiership - the only bigger club would be Man Utd, and that is debateable.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Think Mickdundee answered this with most of the points I would make.

Celtic are a massive club in a very poor league with little competition and nowhere near the TV revenue Norwich will get from being in the EPL.

I cannot imagione a striker ever playing for England only on the basis of success in the SPL. I find myself worrying what Hoopers stats mean compared to any other league in Europe which is why no top club will ever sign Hooper directly. As said his value will continue to be tainted by the wonderful Strikers from Scotland that were flops down here Boyd , Goodwillie etc.

I think he will wait till the summer and move then. Bear in mind players like Craig Mackail Smith who looks like he will never get his chance in the EPL. We tried to sign him last summer and it broke down and he ended up in Brighton under contract and at an age where nobody is going to pay what Brighton want to let him go. Opportunity doesnt always knock more than once.

Think 8M absolute tops (depending how desperate the buyer is)

As an aside I think Henrik Larrson was probably the most natural finisher I ever saw and it was a shame he never got the praise he deserved due to spending so long in Scotland. But hey thats good for Celtic. The Goal he scored in the previous Norwich vs Celtic testimonial was amazing.

[Mickdundee 0]

But they''re not in the EPL, and probably never will be

[KeelansGlove 0]

Depends what you base the concept of size on. And with regard to the "If they played in the (English) Premiership - the only bigger club would be Man Utd" thats just utter crap and I guess its unlikely we would ever find out. In this day and age Stadium and crowd size is an irrelevance with teams like Wigan being able to stay in the EPL on the back of TV money alone. Clubs like Norwich who could sell thousands more tickets if they invested in larger capacity realising that it is not worth the cost and concentrating on increasing revenue elsewhere.

[Paul_CFC 0]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]

Think Mickdundee answered this with most of the points I would make.

Celtic are a massive club in a very poor league with little competition and nowhere near the TV revenue Norwich will get from being in the EPL.

I cannot imagione a striker ever playing for England only on the basis of success in the SPL. I find myself worrying what Hoopers stats mean compared to any other league in Europe which is why no top club will ever sign Hooper directly. As said his value will continue to be tainted by the wonderful Strikers from Scotland that were flops down here Boyd , Goodwillie etc.

I think he will wait till the summer and move then. Bear in mind players like Craig Mackail Smith who looks like he will never get his chance in the EPL. We tried to sign him last summer and it broke down and he ended up in Brighton under contract and at an age where nobody is going to pay what Brighton want to let him go. Opportunity doesnt always knock more than once.

Think 8M absolute tops (depending how desperate the buyer is)

As an aside I think Henrik Larrson was probably the most natural finisher I ever saw and it was a shame he never got the praise he deserved due to spending so long in Scotland. But hey thats good for Celtic. The Goal he scored in the previous Norwich vs Celtic testimonial was amazing.

[/quote]You don''t have to worry about Hooper''s ability, I have no doubts he will score goals at any level. He''s already scored 4 in the Champions League this season so far. As for Boyd or Goodwillie, they couldn''t lace his boots.Larsson was at Celtic for 7 wonderful years, you claim he never got the praise he deserved, maybe in England, but after Celtic he went on to win two La Liga titles, a Spanish Super Cup, a English Premier League title and of course the Champions League. I think he done not too bad.

[Norwich or die tryin! 0]

The thing is about Celtic they are a huge club on of the biggest in Europe..... but they have got to realise they''re playing in a League 1 league. Being a huge club with massive support a great stadium and history doesn''t count for much when you''re playing in such a poor quality league and in the transfer market their best players are allways going to want to move to England because of the finances and the quality of the EPL.

[H4H 0]

[quote user="Captain Holt"]**RANT**

Sick of hearing that we''re too small to sign Hooper, he won''t leave the mighty Glasgow Celtic to come and play for a ''wee team like us.''

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FOOTBALL!!! Yeah, well you fluked your way to the last 16 and you''re getting ruined by Juve and you know it.

£5M isn''t enough? He''s playing in the equivalent of league one.

I don''t know who they think they are but I can certainly see an Englishman prefering to play in his home league (which just happens to be the biggest and arguably best league in the world) and live in a better area for more £ a week. Who''d have thought it?

*END OF RANT*[/quote]

We are a Championship club punching above our weight - Celtic are in the Champions League last 16 and have crowds of 50,000+

I hate to break it to you - but they are a BIGGER club, in every sense of the word! They just play in a s**t league.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Agreed Celtic are a bigger club in almost every way, except any way that matters.

Nobody wants to watch the joke that is the SPL play each other 4 times a year with almost no competitive matches (thats why the revenue is so small) Attendances count for nothing these days when you get maybe 60M for Turning up in the EPL (selling 50,000  for every match wont come close)

The sooner they bite the Bullet and find a way into the English leagues then maybe they will be able to compete with "little old Norwich"

[Paul_CFC 0]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"]

Agreed Celtic are a bigger club in almost every way, except any way that matters.

Nobody wants to watch the joke that is the SPL play each other 4 times a year with almost no competitive matches (thats why the revenue is so small) Attendances count for nothing these days when you get maybe 60M for Turning up in the EPL (selling 50,000  for every match wont come close)

The sooner they bite the Bullet and find a way into the English leagues then maybe they will be able to compete with "little old Norwich"

[/quote]We tried years ago, I don''t think there is any mechanism in place for it to happen, for now at least. I think the home nations are scared they''ll lose their 4 votes when it comes to FIFA matters if clubs start crossing borders.People keep saying Sky will have a big say in it, they are the people who fund the EPL after all, but I just don''t think there is the apatite (especially in England) to see Celtic and Rangers down there. As much as I would love it to happen, I don''t see it any time soon.A question that must be asked as well is, can Sky continue to bankroll the EPL teams at the rate they are just now? If and when they decide they can''t, what happens then?     

[Mickdundee 0]

You don''t have to worry about Hooper''s ability, I have no doubts he will score goals at any level. He''s already scored 4 in the Champions League this season so far. As for Boyd or Goodwillie, they couldn''t lace his boots.

But he''s not henrik larsson. And four goals in the champions league amounts to not that much.

My concerns lie in the fact he''s only got eight league goals and by anybody''s standards south of the border that''s a risk, especially the sort of money you''re asking.

Robbie keane struggled down here before going on loan and getting a few goals for you. All I can see we''d be buying is potential definatly not the fished article.

Until he does it week in week out against the better teams hell play down here, more than 5m still seems a risk to me.

[ncfcstar 287]

[quote user="Paul_CFC"][quote user="KeelansGlove"]

Agreed Celtic are a bigger club in almost every way, except any way that matters.

Nobody wants to watch the joke that is the SPL play each other 4 times a year with almost no competitive matches (thats why the revenue is so small) Attendances count for nothing these days when you get maybe 60M for Turning up in the EPL (selling 50,000  for every match wont come close)

The sooner they bite the Bullet and find a way into the English leagues then maybe they will be able to compete with "little old Norwich"

[/quote]A question that must be asked as well is, can Sky continue to bankroll the EPL teams at the rate they are just now? If and when they decide they can''t, what happens then?      [/quote]And the answer to that question is a resounding yes.  I saw a stat via @sportingintelligence on Twitter, a freelance journalist who does some great analysis by the way.  In fact here''s the article: http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2012/06/17/this-bubble-ain%E2%80%99t-bursting-yet-all-the-details-you%E2%80%99d-ever-want-to-know-about-the-premier-league%E2%80%99s-new-tv-deals-170601/Sky have paid £2.2bn for TV rights for 3 years, they make over £3.5bn from TV subscriptions ANNUALLY.  They can afford it, and more if they wanted to.

[Highland Canary 76]

Celtic are a massive club; it is the Sky TV deal that tilts the finances in the EPL direction not the absolute level of support.

[Paul_CFC 0]

[quote user="Mickdundee"]You don''t have to worry about Hooper''s ability, I have no doubts he will score goals at any level. He''s already scored 4 in the Champions League this season so far. As for Boyd or Goodwillie, they couldn''t lace his boots.

But he''s not henrik larsson. And four goals in the champions league amounts to not that much.

My concerns lie in the fact he''s only got eight league goals and by anybody''s standards south of the border that''s a risk, especially the sort of money you''re asking.

Robbie keane struggled down here before going on loan and getting a few goals for you. All I can see we''d be buying is potential definatly not the fished article.

Until he does it week in week out against the better teams hell play down here, more than 5m still seems a risk to me.[/quote]

It is a risk, the same as it was a risk when we took him from Scunthorpe. The fact remains, Celtic do not need to sell Gary Hooper, if we get an offer we feel is too then, then by all means, but I don''t believe £5m is too good to turn down. It''s probably a fair price, but the way the market is today, especially in the EPL, there was no way Celtic would let their top goal scorer go mid season for that price. A player is worth whatever the buyer is willing to pay.

[Mickdundee 0]

I can understand not wanting to let him go..but, by the sounds of lennons " you are not going" comment it seems as if he wants to.

Sometimes you have to accept what is market value for a player or have somebody who doesn''t want to be there and who may not bother putting himself out for the remainder of the season.

Either way the fee won''t be 5 mil come the summer when he effectively has 6 months before he can sign a ore contract to leave for nothing

[IrishCelt67 0]

[quote user="Captain Holt"]**RANT**

Sick of hearing that we''re too small to sign Hooper, he won''t leave the mighty Glasgow Celtic to come and play for a ''wee team like us.''

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FOOTBALL!!! Yeah, well you fluked your way to the last 16 and you''re getting ruined by Juve and you know it.

£5M isn''t enough? He''s playing in the equivalent of league one.

I don''t know who they think they are but I can certainly see an Englishman prefering to play in his home league (which just happens to be the biggest and arguably best league in the world) and live in a better area for more £ a week. Who''d have thought it?

*END OF RANT*[/quote]Thanks for the giggle. Amazing stuff.