Severe lack of ability to change a game...?

[NCFCRulz 0]

Im very worried that Chris Hughton just does not know how to change a game... We have a cracking Plan A. Its brilliant, and when it works we are flying, but we dont seem to have any sort of back up plan. I have no faith that Hughton can make a match changing substitution, if he makes a sub at all...Look at the last 3 games and be honest. We deserved to lose against Sunderland the way we approached the 2nd half and you can comfortably argue the way we sat back and he refused to make a change when it was begging for a tactical switch, 90% of the time we go on to lose that game...Swansea again... We didnt deserve 3pts there, we sat back virtually the entire 2nd half and struggled to defend a 3-0 lead. Yes it was away from home, but 3-0... We shouldnt be deep in our half the entire half, again refusing to make a substitution when it was crying out for a Jackson to give us legs upfront, and Swansea more than deserved a pointLast night was the 3rd game in a row we deserved nothing out of and finally it happened. Game was AGAIN crying out for a substitution. A villa goal from their slowly increasing pressure became more and more innevitable and we couldnt get lucky a 3rd time.Dont get me wrong, I dont think we will be pulled back into a scrap. What I do think is that this little unbeaten run we are on is only pulling the cotton wool over everyones eyes and Hughtons substitutions are getting overlooked because of it. He refuses to make substitutions to try and change games when they are severely going against us.I like Hughton, but if this doesnt change we will throw away many more points this season

[Morisons Prozac 0]

But we didn''t throw away any points in the last three games. You are overreacting like a complete dribble. Get over it, Villa were more clinical and deserved it more. We also deserved to beat Swansea and Suderland so stop being a pathetic twat and get off Hughtons back

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="NCFCRulz"]Look at the last 3 games and be honest. We deserved to lose against Sunderland the way we approached the 2nd half and you can comfortably argue the way we sat back and he refused to make a change when it was begging for a tactical switch, 90% of the time we go on to lose that game...Swansea again... We didnt deserve 3pts there, we sat back virtually the entire 2nd half and struggled to defend a 3-0 lead. Yes it was away from home, but 3-0... We shouldnt be deep in our half the entire half, again refusing to make a substitution when it was crying out for a Jackson to give us legs upfront, and Swansea more than deserved a point[/quote]Very harsh indeed.You could argue Sunderland deserved a point, but we can''t put the ball in the net for them.  We did not deserve to lose.Against Swansea we did defend a 3-0 lead, we won 4-3 with their 3rd goal virtually the last kick (head?) of the game.  To your point about sitting deep for the whole second half - I remember several counter attacks in that 2nd half, one of which led to the 4th goal.Glass half-empty on your part perhaps?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Maybe a bit of an overreaction but in my view the basic point has some merit. Lambert was unusually bold and willing to make early subs, often to resolve problems with hsi starting line ups/formations. Hoot is in my view too far the other way. We clearly go into the game with a plan which we have worked on all week and which we basicaly stick to unless circumstances forc our hand (player sent off, injuries etc). In general that is good but there has been so far this season a lack fo flexibility or willingness to make changes during times when games have been in the balance. I guess sometimes makingsuch changes works and on other occasions it backfires but personally I would have liked to have seen subs 10 or 15 minutes earlier in several games this season. QPR(h), Reading (a) and last night are examples that particularly stick in the mind. I though last night was crying out for Jackson and Bennett from about 10 minutes into the 2nd half and several of our players looked jaded as the game went on. As it was we didn;t make a change until after they scored.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="NCFCRulz"]Im very worried that Chris Hughton just does not know how to change a game... We have a cracking Plan A. Its brilliant, and when it works we are flying, but we dont seem to have any sort of back up plan. I have no faith that Hughton can make a match changing substitution, if he makes a sub at all...

Look at the last 3 games and be honest. We deserved to lose against Sunderland the way we approached the 2nd half and you can comfortably argue the way we sat back and he refused to make a change when it was begging for a tactical switch, 90% of the time we go on to lose that game...

Swansea again... We didnt deserve 3pts there, we sat back virtually the entire 2nd half and struggled to defend a 3-0 lead. Yes it was away from home, but 3-0... We shouldnt be deep in our half the entire half, again refusing to make a substitution when it was crying out for a Jackson to give us legs upfront, and Swansea more than deserved a point

Last night was the 3rd game in a row we deserved nothing out of and finally it happened. Game was AGAIN crying out for a substitution. A villa goal from their slowly increasing pressure became more and more innevitable and we couldnt get lucky a 3rd time.

Dont get me wrong, I dont think we will be pulled back into a scrap. What I do think is that this little unbeaten run we are on is only pulling the cotton wool over everyones eyes and Hughtons substitutions are getting overlooked because of it. He refuses to make substitutions to try and change games when they are severely going against us.

I like Hughton, but if this doesnt change we will throw away many more points this season
[/quote]

 

I don''t know whether the above is true, having not seen any of the games, although I notice Jim Smith has made a similar point. But as far as league games are concerned I wonder if so far it has been mainly a question of Hughton deciding that in our position one point from a draw was better than going for three and possibly ending up with none. Thus late changes, and like for like changes.

If so then he may, if we continue to rack up points, feel he can be more adventurous later on in the season, going for a win because we can afford to end up with a loss from time to time.

I suspect also the only striker at the club he really trusts as Premier League quality is Holt, and so feels limited in the changes he can make anyway. That may change next month.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="NCFCRulz"]Im very worried that Chris Hughton just does not know how to change a game... We have a cracking Plan A. Its brilliant, and when it works we are flying, but we dont seem to have any sort of back up plan. I have no faith that Hughton can make a match changing substitution, if he makes a sub at all...Look at the last 3 games and be honest. We deserved to lose against Sunderland the way we approached the 2nd half and you can comfortably argue the way we sat back and he refused to make a change when it was begging for a tactical switch, 90% of the time we go on to lose that game...Swansea again... We didnt deserve 3pts there, we sat back virtually the entire 2nd half and struggled to defend a 3-0 lead. Yes it was away from home, but 3-0... We shouldnt be deep in our half the entire half, again refusing to make a substitution when it was crying out for a Jackson to give us legs upfront, and Swansea more than deserved a pointLast night was the 3rd game in a row we deserved nothing out of and finally it happened. Game was AGAIN crying out for a substitution. A villa goal from their slowly increasing pressure became more and more innevitable and we couldnt get lucky a 3rd time.Dont get me wrong, I dont think we will be pulled back into a scrap. What I do think is that this little unbeaten run we are on is only pulling the cotton wool over everyones eyes and Hughtons substitutions are getting overlooked because of it. He refuses to make substitutions to try and change games when they are severely going against us.I like Hughton, but if this doesnt change we will throw away many more points this season[/quote]

 

I don''t know whether the above is true, having not seen any of the games, although I notice Jim Smith has made a similar point. But as far as league games are concerned I wonder if so far it has been mainly a question of Hughton deciding that in our position one point from a draw was better than going for three and possibly ending up with none. Thus late changes, and like for like changes.If so then he may, if we continue to rack up points, feel he can be more adventurous later on in the season, going for a win because we can afford to end up with a loss from time to time.I suspect also the only striker at the club he really trusts as Premier League quality is Holt, and so feels limited in the changes he can make anyway. That may change next month.

[/quote]

 

Purple - I am sure there is an element of that thinking from Hoot and as I have said in another post i can perhaps understand it away from home in the league. What worried me a bit last night was that he still did it in a cup game where there were no points at stake and to a degree he therefore had a bit of a free hand to take a risk.

Anyway time will tell. He''s still doing a very good job its just something i see as a bit of a chink in his armour but then if he was perfect he probably wouldn;t be managing us!

[Jack Flash 13]

We''ve just lost a Capital Cup match whilst in the midst of the Club''s best ever run in the PL, and also are the Club with the longest unbeaten run in the PL. We played a weakened back 4, and key players were missing showing where our priorities lie. Well I am very relaxed at the excellent progress we are making under the leadereship of CH and clearly his tactics do work very well.

[First Wizard 0]

So they beat a depleated City side, whoopie bloody do, and how many points did we lose last night?

 

IN HUGTON I TRUST! [Y]

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="NCFCRulz"]Im very worried that Chris Hughton just does not know how to change a game... We have a cracking Plan A. Its brilliant, and when it works we are flying, but we dont seem to have any sort of back up plan. I have no faith that Hughton can make a match changing substitution, if he makes a sub at all...

Look at the last 3 games and be honest. We deserved to lose against Sunderland the way we approached the 2nd half and you can comfortably argue the way we sat back and he refused to make a change when it was begging for a tactical switch, 90% of the time we go on to lose that game...

Swansea again... We didnt deserve 3pts there, we sat back virtually the entire 2nd half and struggled to defend a 3-0 lead. Yes it was away from home, but 3-0... We shouldnt be deep in our half the entire half, again refusing to make a substitution when it was crying out for a Jackson to give us legs upfront, and Swansea more than deserved a point

Last night was the 3rd game in a row we deserved nothing out of and finally it happened. Game was AGAIN crying out for a substitution. A villa goal from their slowly increasing pressure became more and more innevitable and we couldnt get lucky a 3rd time.

Dont get me wrong, I dont think we will be pulled back into a scrap. What I do think is that this little unbeaten run we are on is only pulling the cotton wool over everyones eyes and Hughtons substitutions are getting overlooked because of it. He refuses to make substitutions to try and change games when they are severely going against us.

I like Hughton, but if this doesnt change we will throw away many more points this season
[/quote]

 

I don''t know whether the above is true, having not seen any of the games, although I notice Jim Smith has made a similar point. But as far as league games are concerned I wonder if so far it has been mainly a question of Hughton deciding that in our position one point from a draw was better than going for three and possibly ending up with none. Thus late changes, and like for like changes.

If so then he may, if we continue to rack up points, feel he can be more adventurous later on in the season, going for a win because we can afford to end up with a loss from time to time.

I suspect also the only striker at the club he really trusts as Premier League quality is Holt, and so feels limited in the changes he can make anyway. That may change next month.

[/quote]

 

Purple - I am sure there is an element of that thinking from Hoot and as I have said in another post i can perhaps understand it away from home in the league. What worried me a bit last night was that he still did it in a cup game where there were no points at stake and to a degree he therefore had a bit of a free hand to take a risk.

Anyway time will tell. He''s still doing a very good job its just something i see as a bit of a chink in his armour but then if he was perfect he probably wouldn;t be managing us!

[/quote]

 

Jim, I take that point entirely. I do think January will be interesting as far as this goes. An argument I have seen here is that there is no point spending money on new strikers because Hughton is wedded to 4-4-1-1. If we do spend serious money on a goalscorer that may be a sign that he is contemplating using 4-4-2 more often, or at least earlier in games.

[4th floor 4]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

If so then he may, if we continue to rack up points, feel he can be more adventurous later on in the season, going for a win because we can afford to end up with a loss from time to time.I suspect also the only striker at the club he really trusts as Premier League quality is Holt, and so feels limited in the changes he can make anyway. That may change next month.

[/quote]Similarly if we end the year with a sufficient distance between us and

the relegation places the board might take a calculated risk to splash

out in the transfer window to cement our survival. They might be

somewhat averse to doing this if we were nearer the drop zone and hence

more likely to be relegated.

[NCFCRulz 0]

Got to love it when people who disagree with someones opinion have to resort to keyboard abuse because they cant think of anything more constructive to say. (Points at first post as quote wont work and laughs)I am fully behind Hughton and happy to have him here but if we cant offer constructive critisism on a FORUM which was DESIGNED for opinions, then we may as well all bugger off!To those of you who replied sensibly, thanks for your opinions, I may be over reacting slightly, I mean I am basing my hypothesis on just 3 games! Hopefully we will go thump Wigan 3-0 with 3 subs before the 65th minute to make us all happy! :D

[Vazzza 62]

I agree with the OP that Hughton leaves it way too late in the day to make subs, and more to the point, very rarely changes the set-up when he does make changes.

Our last 2 PL games we have been amazing in the first half and backs to the wall in the 2nd. Ok, great that we managed to hold on to the wins, but replay those 2nd halfs over and over again and I''d think we''d have dropped the points more often that not. At Swansea we were dead lucky to get that 4th, if Snodders hit the post instead of beatifully finding that side netting, we''d have 2 less points right now. I''m not saying he should have gone 2 up front or gone more attacking, maybe just swap a Wesley for Howson and have him sit a bit deeper. Or a Bradley for a Fox and keep the ball a bit more...

And again, with the OP, I think the great unbeaten run is wallpapering over the cracks a little bit. If Hugton does stick to this game plan, and we start giving away leads and dropping points from promising positions then suddenly the whole board/fan base will be saying the exact content of the OP. It''s definitely not the first time its been said, crops up almost weekly.

Anyway, roll on January as Purple says. Hughton can get a few more personnel in and then really start playing the way he wants to play. We must remember he only inherited this team a few months ago, and he has already got the FIRST TEAM playing exactly how he wants. Maybe "plan B" is for after Jan.

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

Of course we never complained about the lateness of Lamber''s subs either [;)]

 

I agree Bennett and Jackson would have added another dimension with much earlier substitutions in the 2nd half and who knows what might have happened. Now we''ll never know. Timing is crucial as much as the subs themselves.

[nutty nigel 7,513]

I think it''s a load of old pony. It doesn''t even bear scrutiny. But lets take the last 6 games one game at a time. Last night Morison was injured so we couldn''t load the team with strikers after we went behind but before we went behind we were just as likely to score as they were. Swansea we won. Sunderland we won. Southampton there were three substitutions in the last 10 minutes to close the game at 1-1. Everton we ended the game with three strikers on the field because we were behind and ended up winning a point. Manchester United we won.

 

 

[NCFCRulz 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I think it''s a load of old pony. It doesn''t even bear scrutiny. But lets take the last 6 games one game at a time. Last night Morison was injured so we couldn''t load the team with strikers after we went behind but before we went behind we were just as likely to score as they were. Swansea we won. Sunderland we won. Southampton there were three substitutions in the last 10 minutes to close the game at 1-1. Everton we ended the game with three strikers on the field because we were behind and ended up winning a point. Manchester United we won.

 

 

[/quote]I agree with what you are saying Nutty, but just because we won them doesnt mean we deserve to win them! Sunderland without a shadow of a doubt we did not deserve to win. Was crying out for a change and he just wouldnt make one. If it wasnt for 5-6 off the line clearences then it would have been a different story

[CambridgeCanary 0]

Hughton is not perfect!

Shock horror. Never saw that coming. What will we do?

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="NCFCRulz"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I think it''s a load of old pony. It doesn''t even bear scrutiny. But lets take the last 6 games one game at a time. Last night Morison was injured so we couldn''t load the team with strikers after we went behind but before we went behind we were just as likely to score as they were. Swansea we won. Sunderland we won. Southampton there were three substitutions in the last 10 minutes to close the game at 1-1. Everton we ended the game with three strikers on the field because we were behind and ended up winning a point. Manchester United we won.

 

 

[/quote]I agree with what you are saying Nutty, but just because we won them doesnt mean we deserve to win them! Sunderland without a shadow of a doubt we did not deserve to win. Was crying out for a change and he just wouldnt make one. If it wasnt for 5-6 off the line clearences then it would have been a different story[/quote]

This is beyond silly at several levels. It''s a shame you weren''t at the Sunderland game because you''d have seen just how comfortable we were for.much of the second half despite the pressure.

As for 5-6 off the line clearances, that is pure fantasy. I''m struggling to remember more than one

At a more fundamental level, what is this concept of deserving to win all about? How is it judged? Who decides?

We beat Sunderland, being in my view the better team. Even if it were right that there were many goal line clearances, surely that reflects better on the team with the wit to put men on the line and prevent goals than the team who can''t find a way through. How does not scoring give a team moral superiority over the team that stops them scoring?

Sorry but with all due respect and comradely empathy, I find your perspective strange, perverse, illogical and close to bonkers.

[Mister Chops 7]

Perhaps we should change the points system in football to be more like boxing, where goals count in your favour but a panel decide at the end of the game who "deserved" to win the game overall.  We''d need to be careful about panel appointments though, as some of the posters on this board would no doubt ensure we were relegated.

[Josh 0]

So we stopped Sunderland scoring in the 2nd half via some top notch defending and we didn''t deserve to win? Utter lunacy. We are now a good defensive team under Hughton so perhaps he isn''t too concerned about sitting back a bit on a lead instead of making offensive substitions. Seems to be working so far!