The Sun reporting we've offrered 5m for Danny Graham

[Gingerpele 0]

First off, why are some people moaning about the Sun making up rumours when all papers do it? The Times don''t have some secret source and only print 100% factual transfer rumours.

And mrs miggins, don''t agree with you at all there. It is a bit simple, its not that he''s not good enough for Swansea, its that they''ve bought two attacking players who suit their style more. Graham played two more games than Moro in the league last season, scoring three more league goals. The fact that about 8 of Morisons 9 league goals came in Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec and then one the rest of the season and only one so far this season is actually very worrying. Morison has not looked like the player who scored those 8 goals in 4 months since that time, he''s not done much this season to suggest he can reach that level again.

As far as I know Graham was scoring all season, he only scored 12 in 36 but it was his first season in the Prem, and early on he was very unlucky, I remember watching one game, I think vs Arsenal on MOTD and he had multiple great chances and none of them went in, and it wasn''t because he wasn''t good enough, it just wasn''t his day.

Unless Morison can do something in the next few weeks to show us he is capable of being a consistent player wether starting or on the bench, and will be a valuable player all season long, then i''d be quite happy to see him leave in January. And if we could get Graham for £5 million, that''d be a good deal. I honestly think he''d be better in our team than in Swanseas side.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

Why does every thread about a new striker have to swing round to being about Morison. There is absolutely no evidence that any new striker comming in will be a replacement in anyway for Morison. As for Danny Graham he''s a good lively striker and we know he can perform at this level i dont see too many better options in the division below or out of favour at other Premier League clubs.

[Gingerpele 0]

Because Morison is one of our current strikers?

And he''s scored one in 12?

And scored only once or twice in the second half of last season?

Because we don''t have an unlimited budget or squad?

Because even though Holt''s only scored 3 he still hasn''t persuaded Hughton to give him a start?

Because for just under a year he''s looked next to useless in 90% of his performances?

Because he''s the most frustrating player ever?

Enough?

[Bill 1,788]

First off, why are some people moaning about the Sun making up rumours    the clue is probably in the title of the thread

[smooth 114]

Rubbish.

He scores goals.

If any of you guys look at how many games he started from feb onwards it speaks volumes of why he didn''t score as many goals. When he started he scored unlike hapless Simeon Jackson who just runs.

Morison was having injections on his ankle after Xmas and played through it.

I loved the Morison bashing when I watched the arsenal game in the Ketts, when s Jackson missed a one and one and was hauled off some bad mouthed Morison, he came on scored a great great goal, I turned round and told them that is what he clucking does, he scores goals. He scored double digits in his first season in the prem. we all went loopy over Mckenzie for scoring less than that or s Jackson because he scored about 5 goals in 5 games at the end of our championship season. What has he done since.

Morison has stepped up leagues rapidly and if we started him and holt they would score 10 goals each this season.

I do think we will look at getting at least another striker ( hopefully 2) in January, as Martin, Vaughan, Kane and sj are not the short term or long term answer. I don''t think Morison is. But he is more than an answer than the others listed.

Danny graham would be tidy and 5 million a good price for a player in the English leagues, but I would rather we spent that on a player from Europe. I think Danny graham is playing at the peak of his ability as so many of our players are. We need to buy better quality and I think Europe we can find players on the way up and who want to bring it to the prem.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="smooth"]


 Danny graham would be tidy and 5 million a good price for a player in the English leagues, but I would rather we spent that on a player from Europe. I think Danny graham is playing at the peak of his ability as so many of our players are. We need to buy better quality and I think Europe we can find players on the way up and who want to bring it to the prem.

[/quote]

 

I agree about extra quality, and continental Europe being the place to look, in the longer term. But, given our lack of goals, if we get in only one striker in the January window it needs to be someone who can go straight into the squad and perform. With only 14 League games after January we cannot afford to wait for the player to acclimatise to English football. 

[Gingerpele 0]

smooth, why isn''t he starting games?

I''d love to see Morison back to his best, i''m not a Morison basher, I like him. But Holt overtook him and ever since he''s not looked half as good. He either forgot how to play football, is incapable of being a squad player or doesn''t like being second choice. He''s made 12 appearances this season, scoring once. It doesn''t matter that much he''s not had a huge amount of game time, if he were good enough he''d be starting and playing more. Like I said, Holt has only scored three in our 12 Premiership games, yet Hughton hasn''t thought about dropping him to give Morison a chance from the beginning.

And if after 3 in 12 Holt can''t be displaced by Morison, something is wrong. Last season Holt was dropped after 4 games for Morison, and Holt had to work his way back into the team, but it was certainly less than 12 games before he was starting again. Holt has been playing well, but why isn''t Morison doing more to get himself into the team? Is he not impressing in training? Because he''s only been effective in 2 or 3 games so far this season...

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Because Morison is one of our current strikers? And he''s scored one in 12? And scored only once or twice in the second half of last season? Because we don''t have an unlimited budget or squad? Because even though Holt''s only scored 3 he still hasn''t persuaded Hughton to give him a start? Because for just under a year he''s looked next to useless in 90% of his performances? Because he''s the most frustrating player ever? Enough?[/quote]

Not really, thats just more of your opinion about Morison, it has very little to do with Danny Graham or any other striker apart from increased competition. On current game time C.Martin and even Jackson might be much closer to the exit door. Of course if we were to bring in two or three new strikers we might see all three (or four if you include Vaughan) of our fringe strikers being offloaded.

[Gingerpele 0]

So Morison isn''t one of our strikers? And he''s scored more than once this season? And scored multiple times in the second half of last season? And has been starting lots of games this season? Only two of the six reasons were opinion...

Morison is going to be earning more than Jackson or Martin in theory. Morison isn''t starting games now, if we sign a striker for £5 million Morison is going to be 3rd choice, he isn''t excelling as 2nd choice, hows he going to be any better as 3rd choice?

It doesn''t matter if he''s better than Martin and Jackson, what matters is wether Hughton plans on playing 2 strikers in the future and wether we can afford to have Holt, Morison, and new presumably 1st team material striker. Morison hasn''t been starting many games, 14 appearances in all comps, 10 as sub and i''m fairly sure he started all 3 cup games. So one Premiership start in 12. He''s not going to be earning next to nothing. even if he''s second choice striker now, he wants to be starting, he''s probably earning more than Jackson and any new striker will almost certainly be brought in as direct competition to Holt, something Hughton at the moment doesn''t appear to think Morison is.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

"Holt has only scored three in our 12 Premiership games, yet Hughton

hasn''t thought about dropping him to give Morison a chance from the

beginning"Hughton is not going to change the team when it is doing well, Holt`s performances recently have been about far more than just goals scored, he has worked extremely hard all over the pitch, often not being where most of us would want to see him, ie in the box, but his overall contribution to the team has been excellent. It`s very unfair to use the fact that Morrison has not started as a reason to bash him, particularly within the context of how we have been doing.When he has come on as a sub, like on Saturday, he has done ok. We need to keep him and bring in someone like Graham IMO.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

I think it''s perfectly feasible that Morison, Holt and a new striker could be competiting for the one position upfront that Hughton likes to play. I think most people on here recognise that Holt is the main striker for a whole load of different reasons not just goals, but should Holt get injured then Morison is going to play that role in the team with our current players. I think the budget argument in this instance really isnt much of an argument at all, when Holt is on 20k a week or whatever and probably still our highest earner then Morison would likely be on a fair bit less. Just because he isnt starting games and you dont rate him doesnt mean he''s the candiate to be offloaded.

Of course, maybe Morison will want to leave if he''s not getting in the team or see''s his position move further down the pecking order and that will be a different thing altogether.

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

Danny Graham can be a bit wasteful though? Thought he was powder-puff when he first joined Swansea from Watford & didn''t look anywhere near Prem quality. Just watched that You Tube clip from Tom Cavendish featuring Wilfried Pony & wow - this guy plays like he means it. Sort of everything Danny Graham isn''t!

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKWodin3QOk

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

* Bony - not Pony (as in Cockney Rhyming Slang!)

[Gingerpele 0]

I''m not bashing him, I want Morison to be here and doing as well as he did early last season. But in a decent number of games over last season and this season he has shown he''s just not really the right player to do that from the bench. If Morison is anywhere near our top earners he has to justify that, and at the moment he isn''t.

I cannot see Hughton dropping Holt for Morison in the near future, or him going 4-4-2 to accommodate Morison. If we are going to improve the team surely we need a striker who is actually going to provide Hughton with a selection problem. Graham might not be the man to do that, we might not find anyone in Jan. But at the moment Hughton has no reason to bring Morison in. Elliot Bennett you could see getting a start (although not that likely) and I wouldn''t be shocked to see R.Martin get his place back at some point, can see Howson getting more game time. But I can''t see Morison getting anymore game time than he''s getting at the moment, because he''s not proving on the pitch he''s worth it and it would seem like he''s not doing anything special in training either to force Hughton to consider him more.

I''m not a Morison basher, he''s a good player, he proved that last Autumn/winter, but since then, nothing. If we want to have a good a season as last year, well I really don''t think that can happen with just Holt. He needs someone to push him.

[Gingerpele 0]

Yellowbeagle, I have never said I don''t rate him.

We don''t know what Holt is on, I saw £25k, you say £20k or whatever. Morison joined for around £2.5 million from a Championship club were he was top scorer, he isn''t going to be on nothing. Him and Jackson could be earning similar.

My ''argument'' is that Morison hasn''t performed anywhere near the level he performed when he was starting last season when he''s second choice. When Holt was benched, he won his place back in the starting line up, at a rough guess i''d say Morison has had about 25-30 games on the bench since his real spell of form ended, with only a few starts thrown in there. Holt was on the bench for less than 10 games.

Morison simply is not the same player when he''s second choice. He doesn''t look confidant, he doesn''t look like scoring, he doesn''t look good. I have no problem with Morison if he was anywhere near the same player he was in the first half of last season, but he isn''t. And if we sign another striker to compete with Holt, Morison won''t suddenly become any better will he?

[Yellowbeagle 0]

If saying a player is useless in 90% of the games in the last year isnt saying you dont rate him i dont know what is.

 

As for him getting better we just dont know how his form will pick up, no one can tell or whether it might have been better had he had more starts. Holt got his last goal against Arsenal, but despite not scoring since i dont see too many fans thinking we should change something that is currently working, had we lost a few of the games since I wouldnt have been surprised if Morison would have got another start.

 

I agree with you about being frustrated with him as we have seen him perform before but from what i have seen so far is that Hughton seems to currently see''s him as second choice striker and i see no reason in anything you''ve said to suggest to me Morison would be the one to make way in our squad for any new players. The budget argument just doesnt stack up for me in this instance.

[Gingerpele 0]

So he''s been great ever since he lost his first team place has he? Please tell me i''m completely wrong and Morison has been absolutely fine since the turn of the year? Completely useless in 90% might be a bit of an exaggeration, but he has not been good.

The Morison we have had since he has been a regular sub is not fit to be second choice striker. I''m sorry I want us to improve. But signing another striker and keeping Morison makes no sense. He''s hardly doing anything now, whats the point of keeping him when he''s only going to become less effective as 3rd choice?

I want Morison to get back to his old self, I thought he was great then, and was disappointed he hasn''t started more. But you don''t seem to be getting my point that he has done NOTHING to prove he deserves that chance. Grant Holt did. Snodgrass did this season, Bennett took his place, Snoddy got a chance in the cup played well enough to start the next league game. Morison played in that cup game, and the other two.

Hughton has multiple options to give Morison more time in the side, he could bring him on for Holt or Hoolahan earlier in the game. He could even try Hoolahan out wide for a while and play two strikers. Yes we are playing well and the team shouldn''t change, but when Holt was benched we were played well. We were winning games. He forced his way back into the side. Morison hasn''t, he''s had so many chances to do so, and he hasn''t. I''m sorry if I want a better second choice striker, but Morison at the moment isn''t a player you can be confidant brining on to try and win you a game, or get back on level terms. We need a better striker than him. I''d be delighted if he started playing well again, but when? How many chances does he need?

If Hughton wants to play one man up top, we can''t afford to pay three players directly competing for that one spot, all on first team wages. Jackson is a different type of player. We don''t have three left wingers, or three LBs, if we sign a new striker it''ll be a man who can play up top on his own, and if its not then that tells you what Hughton thinks of Morison. If we had Holt, Graham and Morison, one of them won''t be playing. One of them will get so little game time. And even if that were Morison, he''s almost certainly getting paid more than squad players like Martin, Lappin, Rudd. I could see Surman leave for the same reason. Not because they aren''t good enough, but because they aren''t doing enough to justify their position at the club.

Its not all about the individual cost. We have 25 squad places, thats 2 players in every position plus 3. You want a couple of those three to be versatile. If you are playing one striker you do still need a 3rd, maybe 4th choice, for when you want to play two in certain situations. But we don''t have unlimited squad space, or wage budget to be spending on players who aren''t doing enough to justify themselves.

[York Canary 28]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"]

Danny Graham can be a bit wasteful though? Thought he was powder-puff when he first joined Swansea from Watford & didn''t look anywhere near Prem quality. Just watched that You Tube clip from Tom Cavendish featuring Wilfried Pony & wow - this guy plays like he means it. Sort of everything Danny Graham isn''t!

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKWodin3QOk

[/quote]Well that''s why he''s called the new Drogba and being touted to join one of the world''s biggest clubs. And are you saying Danny Graham doesn''t play like he means it? That''s what people say about Berbatov..but everytime he scores a goal I''m pretty sure he means it.I don''t get the problem with being linked with him. If he scores goals like last season then that''s mint. It''d be nice to see a composed finisher. Look at the goals he scored last season and there''s quite a few one on ones that he puts away and that''s what we miss in many ways. We''ve had at least 4 one on ones I can think of straight away that we''ve cacked out on. I''m not saying he''s the answer, I''m just saying he''s a striker who had a good season like Holty did last year and I wouldn''t be disappointed to see him here as he adds something we miss. I''d love to see a strong, powerful and pacey finisher like Bony, but I''m also realistic

[Gingerpele 0]

In a shorter summary:

I WANT Morison to be here and playing well. I like his style. But he isn''t. He simply is not playing anywhere near the standard that he was up until about the Wolves away game last season.

Even more than that, I want us to improve, at the very least performance/reputation wise, position will be hard to get too much better (considering we were same points as 10th, I pretty much count that as joint 10th). Morison is one very weak link in my opinion at the moment. Last season we had a 15 goal and 9 goal PL striker, as well as 7/8 from Pilks and I think 4/5 from Hoolahan. Pilks has only just scored his first, Snoddy only got one, Holt at current rate will only get 9 and Moro at current rate will get 3. That is a very big move in the wrong direction. We need a striker who can score those 9 goals (or 6/7 considering slightly less attacking approach). Morison looks a million miles away from that.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]In a shorter summary:

I WANT Morison to be here and playing well. I like his style. But he isn''t. He simply is not playing anywhere near the standard that he was up until about the Wolves away game last season.

Even more than that, I want us to improve, at the very least performance/reputation wise, position will be hard to get too much better (considering we were same points as 10th, I pretty much count that as joint 10th). Morison is one very weak link in my opinion at the moment. Last season we had a 15 goal and 9 goal PL striker, as well as 7/8 from Pilks and I think 4/5 from Hoolahan. Pilks has only just scored his first, Snoddy only got one, Holt at current rate will only get 9 and Moro at current rate will get 3. That is a very big move in the wrong direction. We need a striker who can score those 9 goals (or 6/7 considering slightly less attacking approach). Morison looks a million miles away from that.[/quote]

Did he do well for you on Saturday dear?

[Highland Canary 76]

I would welcome Graham as competition for Holt who, in my opinion, is playing well at the moment. If we need to reduce the wage bill to finance his acquisition then it makes sense to sell Morison. For whatever reason Morison has not reproduced his early form at Norwich as has been extensively debated on this thread. I would also welcome a replacement for Jackson. His strike rate in the PL is not great. Howver, he is a different type of player and useful if Hughton at some point in the season reverts to 4-4-2. I can''t see us buying two strikers in the widow which some are advocating.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]In a shorter summary:

I WANT Morison to be here and playing well. I like his style. But he isn''t. He simply is not playing anywhere near the standard that he was up until about the Wolves away game last season.

Even more than that, I want us to improve, at the very least performance/reputation wise, position will be hard to get too much better (considering we were same points as 10th, I pretty much count that as joint 10th). Morison is one very weak link in my opinion at the moment. Last season we had a 15 goal and 9 goal PL striker, as well as 7/8 from Pilks and I think 4/5 from Hoolahan. Pilks has only just scored his first, Snoddy only got one, Holt at current rate will only get 9 and Moro at current rate will get 3. That is a very big move in the wrong direction. We need a striker who can score those 9 goals (or 6/7 considering slightly less attacking approach). Morison looks a million miles away from that.[/quote]Agree with all this.Feel we should move Moro on though.

[Gingerpele 0]

Did who do well? For Me?

Morison?

The two times he got the ball he did alright, should have had an assist. He only came on because Holt was tired...

[Bill 1,788]

You are judging like for like. We are not playing the same way as we did under Lambert.

 

At the moment it is not the same all out attacking mode - therefore goals will be less.

 

Whether that is a good strategy or not time will tell, but to compare last season with this season on a goals basis is a flawed argument/

 

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Moro is not good enough, plain and simple. Its probably more down to lacking the desire than the ability !This mythical vein of goal scoring tallent dried up over a year ago. And other than the fluke goal vs Arsenal he has done nothing to even deserve a spot in the team !Sell him while we still can and get someone else in.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Moro is not good enough, plain and simple. Its probably more down to lacking the desire than the ability !This mythical vein of goal scoring tallent dried up over a year ago. And other than the fluke goal vs Arsenal he has done nothing to even deserve a spot in the team !Sell him while we still can and get someone else in.[/quote]

Tell me dear do you booo at him when he comes on to the field?

[Gingerpele 0]

No we aren''t playing the same way but we are still creating plenty of good chances. We are attacking, contrary to popular belief, maybe we aren''t getting quite as many chances as last season, but its not like we are ultra defensive like Chelsea in the CL last season.

We should, not even could, but a very firm should have scored more goals this season. A mixture of poor finishing, poor final balls, less risk taking, couple bad referee decisions, couple of excellent GK displays and some bad luck has mean''t we''ve only scored 9. But we should have scored 2 or 3 against Villa. Probably should have scored one or two of those headed chances against Reading. Howson should have scored on Saturday, and we had 2/3 other very good opportunities. QPR & West Ham at home we were on top and should have scored/score more. Spurs away Friedel was fantastic and Moro was denied a penalty.

Without thinking too hard I can come up with quite a few examples of moments when 9 times out of 10 you''d think we should be scoring, but didn''t.

And like I said, 6/7 goals instead of 9 would be good for the second striker. Pilks isn''t scoring much yet, Hoolahan yet to get one, Snoddy only one, Holt only 3. And its not like we haven''t had the chances. We need someone who is going to take those chances. If we''d had a more confidant striker maybe we''d have 2/4/6 even 8 more points just based on the balance of play in our games this season.

Morison isn''t the same player, he isn''t as effective, he isn''t as confidant. And the longer that continues the less likely it is to change.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="canarygirl"]

Tell me dear do you booo at him when he comes on to the field?[/quote]no sweetheart I dont, I just think hes crap

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="canarygirl"]

Tell me dear do you booo at him when he comes on to the field?[/quote]no sweetheart I dont, I just think hes crap[/quote]

How very rude!

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

what was rude ?