The Danger of Complacency

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

We are on a fantastic run and joint third in points in the current form table but, without recent exceptional results we would be in a very different frame of mind and looking over our shoulder at the likes of Southampton and Reading.

We have done his with a struggling attack and few goals due to good management, defending and collective effort. We have been fortunate with injuries to our thin squad.

So poor was our start it has taken a set of games such as those of late to rescue us.

We are now only two points off 8th but conversely could soon find ourselves back in the bottom mix. It is tight and getting tighter. Two good results in the next two games would surely see us firmly in the top ten.

It is truth time for Aston Villa as they play bottom rivals and Stoke at home before coming to us in the cup and QPR who look for redemption under ''Arry. Reading look vulnerable to me but Southampton should have enough at home.

The message for Norwich City therefore has to be not to be blinded by recent results and not to ease up thinking we are comfortable. I would suggest our increasingly omplaced supporters take a reality check too.

This is why I was delighted with the attitude shown at Everton which I am sure Hoots will be working to ensure we take to Southampton.

[Surfer 1,547]

Spot on Rudolph.

[paul moy 235]

Defeat against Southampton which on form must be a possibility and they will be only one point behind us.

[flecky76 0]

It''s tempting to keep looking at the league table though I keep looking at it myself and agree its getting very tight. However, we need to just concentrate on ourselves. We get to 40 points and everything will take care of itself. If we can get to 20-25 points by the end of December, which is more than achievable, then we will be more than on track to get to our target.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Very true but I think Hoots is very alive to the risk of being complacent

There were definitely some omplaced fans yesterday whinging about the way we played at Readjnfg (where we go a better result than Everton) and saying yesterday was no better (when we were behind). I was bemused given how many chances and how much pressure we put on them in the second half.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

whilst we are on a great run we are only 2 bad games from being firmly in the mix.forthcoming fixtures will see bottom six sides picking up points as many play each other. Perhaps Newcastle also need to be added to the teams in the scramble at the bottom now

[shefcanary 2,385]

Agree with Newcastle, Yorkie - an 8 year contract for Pardew - if that doesn''t demonstrate the danger of complacency then nothing does. 

[kingsway 94]

I said after last weeks unexpected victory over Man U that if we''d of lost the game instead (which we must admit was more likely than what did actually happen!) we''d of been only 2 point of the drop zone. Even after yesterdays good result at Goodison Park we aren''t very far from the danger zone and have a lot of work to do yet before we are definately safe!

[ZLF 271]

Spot on rude old.

I hope the first 45 mins against everton highlight those very dangers, we came out half hearted almost thinking we would not concede without making the effort and paid the price.

the next 45 mins shows why we can travel anywhere with confidence as long as we work it

[Bill 1,788]

What a load of old whinging, cap wringing, forelock tugging sh!te this thread is

 

We have one point less than we did this time last year. If we get a draw or more a Soton'' we will be equal or above where we were on 14 games last season.

 

Third from bottom have 10 poinst, last season they had 9 points.

 

We finished 11 points ahead of third from bottom. We are half way to that total already with less than a third of the season played. One loss or a draw at this early stage can make a massive difference so stop wetting of your knickers.

 

Out aim has to be to finish as far up the table as possible. The higher we finish, the more we earn. I don''t hear any of the ever so ''umble demanding that we hand back the extra £4m we earned last season by finishing 12th, not 17th. The squad is not small, thin or or any such guff. It is composed of 25 players - much as every other squad is. It is composed of players who have beaten Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs. Players who don''t stand around touching their forelock, but take the attitude (and have the belief) that we are in this league to win. 

 

So get off your knees, ya bunch of spinless jellyfish.

 

 

[Stig 0]

[quote user="City1st"]

What a load of old whinging, cap wringing, forelock tugging sh!te this thread is

 

We have one point less than we did this time last year. If we get a draw or more a Soton'' we will be equal or above where we were on 14 games last season.

 

Third from bottom have 10 poinst, last season they had 9 points.

 

We finished 11 points ahead of third from bottom. We are half way to that total already with less than a third of the season played. One loss or a draw at this early stage can make a massive difference so stop wetting of your knickers.

 

Out aim has to be to finish as far up the table as possible. The higher we finish, the more we earn. I don''t hear any of the ever so ''umble demanding that we hand back the extra £4m we earned last season by finishing 12th, not 17th. The squad is not small, thin or or any such guff. It is composed of 25 players - much as every other squad is. It is composed of players who have beaten Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs. Players who don''t stand around touching their forelock, but take the attitude (and have the belief) that we are in this league to win. 

 

So get off your knees, ya bunch of spinless jellyfish.

 

 

[/quote]

Pretty much this, but I can see the reasoning behind the discussion. It''s uncomfortable knowing we have a game with a team that can propel themselves up the table by beating us and making it that much harder for us to stay in a comfortable position. In the same breath I am chuffed with the 13th position we currently hold, but am not comfortable with the points difference between us and "them".

Nothing like having a chin wag to try and make ourselves feel better. The long and short of it is though, it will be a very difficult game and we''ll probably need to think of something new to get a point or three from it.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

"We have been fortunate with injuries to our thin squad"We have been lucky with injuries but I would not say we had a thin squad!  Look at the performance against Spurs in the cup.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

Agreed City1st,

I really am finding the abundance of negative posts on here right now quite unbelievable. Also, what is the point of saying ''if we hadn''t beat Man U unexpectedly we''d have 3 points less'' etc. We did win, we deserved to win, we are where we are so ifs, buts and maybes are as pointless as United were when they left FCR.

Rather than keep banging on about how we''re not scoring enough, goal difference suggests that in the last 6 games we have scored 3 more goals than we''ve conceded, and I''ll take that all day from now until the end of the season. If we carry on playing as we are we don''t need to worry about what anyone else does.

Also, why is there this obsession with 4-4-2 and how it''s supposedly the most attacking system. I don''t get it. And what''s more, Hooton and most other managers are in agreement with me on this. No doubt if we were playing 4-4-2 the same posters would be crying to get Wes back in the team - you can''t win!

OTBC

[ZLF 271]

where is the negativity? its saying more of the same and continue moving up the table?

talk about finding something to moan about!!!

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]Defeat against Southampton which on form must be a possibility and they will be only one point behind us.[/quote]So after a good run of form and a good point yesterday you STILL remain negative?Why?

[Beefy is a legend 224]

Zipper,

You said that we were ''half-hearted'' in the first half, I simply don''t accept that there is any evidence that was the case. Everton pressed us high and we didn''t reciprocate but that doesn''t mean that we somehow weren''t putting in 100% - it doesn''t always follow that putting in 100% = good performance and not putting in 100% = bad performance.

We sorted one or two things out tactically for the second half in terms of pressing and bringing Wes deeper to pick up the ball. As I''ve said on another post, I also think it almost suits us to be a goal behind at times because the opposition don''t always know how to stick or twist and it''s always easier to put pressure on the opposition when, inevitably, they begin to hold on to what they have.

I think that also contributed to our better second half showing - a very similar situation to the Tottenham game and to the Villa game (although granted they were down to 10) where we were the side on the front foot because the opposition were happy to sit on the lead.

[ZLF 271]

No where have I said that effort equals good; anyone who recalls my opinion of Andy Hoooooes will be aware of that.

However our success, as last year, is as much around the collective effort as it is the 4231 formation. When the team are working as a unit, fully committed to closing down and playing with tempo we are at our most effective. Even if our passing is lacking defending with energy commitment and as one team we have become very difficult to score against.

watch their goal; snodgrass and wes both had plenty of time and chances to close down their players (baines and hitzelsberger) yet we failed to do what SAF praised us for - being a hard working team, allowed them too much space and they hurt us as a result - compounded by whittakers error. Snod made the same mistake time and again in the first half and he was symptomatic of the teams energy level.

That is plenty of specific evidence imo.

Come the second half we pressed the ball consistently, failing to allow their players time on the ball and we started hurting them instead of the other way around.

we started the game sluggishly and were not at the races, the effort compared to previous games was imo half hearted.

On top of the closing the game down we failed with our passing game in teh first half, giving possession away and poor pass selection - but you can overcome that with a solid defensive effort

as i have repeatedly pointed out our second half performance was excellent, we upped the tempo in

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Interesting how a balanced thread attracts the polar opinions. That''s fine but its a shame City 1st can only make a point while attempting to insult other posters.

Garrido has talked about going forward with humility; CH talks up the opposition. It''s about building a siege mentality and removing complacency.

My further point was that our excellent run has so far only served to repair a poor start in the same way Everton''s good start has preserved their position through a run of draws.

If we stay focused, grounded and determined we can nail this season in the upcoming four games, league and cup. This is because CH will improve the squad in January and our home game run in is very favourable.

Get beyond ourselves and create atmospheres like we did against Wigan at home last season for example and we are in trouble. Complacency contributed to Arsenal and Man Utd losing to us, it is a curse in sport.

[dpit 1]

Your points are valid, Rudolph. I also beliieve a balanced approach (don''t lose your head whether we win or lose) is the only way to go.

Picking up on another point, unfortunately by calling into question City 1st''s tone, you have unleashed the fury of The Binfinder General. You will now be accused of being a) A Binner b) someone else and c) a spratt.

[dpit 1]

"Out aim has to be to finish as far up the table as possible. The higher we finish, the more we earn. I don''t hear any of the ever so ''umble demanding that we hand back the extra £4m we earned last season by finishing 12th, not 17th. The squad is not small, thin or or any such guff. It is composed of 25 players - much as every other squad is. It is composed of players who have beaten Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs. Players who don''t stand around touching their forelock, but take the attitude (and have the belief) that we are in this league to win.

So get off your knees, ya bunch of spinless jellyfish."

City1st

“We know who we are and we have to go with humility."

“It’s the one thing we have got into our minds, so step by step we will see what’s going to happen. The future it’s difficult to say right now, but we are in a good position.”

Javier Garrido

Compare and contrast

[lake district canary 0]

I got shouted down for saying this earlier in the season, but what some are saying on this thread backs me up.    Hughton has been right to get the players to accept their individual abilities for what they are - we are not a team full of Matas and Messi''s and never will be.   We accept our level then get maximum performance from that. 

We don''t build them up, get them playing ''above'' themselves. We get them to accept their level, then get the best out of them. Its not negative to accept your level - its about being realistic.   Only by doing that will you ensure the players stay on the type of game they have to play to compete at this level.   The first half at Everton was an example of what happens if you let the opposition play.   That shot of Baines running freely with the ball and Snodders and Wes just standing watching was actually totally to the point.     Right from the QPR game - which we never looked like losing, I had a sense that this is what Hughton does.   He gets the players grounded and working from a realistic perspective.   Quite a different approach to Lambert, I suspect. 

Once you know and accept your level, you can then work to improve that level on a sound and sustainable foundation.  The problems I come up against at work is where people have an inflated idea of their abilities and then can''t live up to their perceived level.   I am sure footballers are the same and a manager of Hughton''s type is one who will keep the players grounded - and then get the best out of them as a result.

 

[Tumbleweed 106]

Don''t confuse confidence with complacency. No team can be complacent and all teams need confidence. The contrast in the two halves at Everton show that Hughton is on the mark and looking out for ways to improve. For all those who said that Arsenal and Man Utd were poor against us which is why we won, the informed retort is that we played to our  strengths and squeezed them so they couldn''t look good. Keep doing that and we will survive OK. Drop the focus and effort against Saints or anyone else and we''ll be punished. We know now we have the capability to equal last year''s finish, so we should just continue to do what we have done over the last few games. We won''t be the division''s top scorers and we may be last on MOTD each Sat but we''ll be taking another step towarsd becoming an extablished Prem side which is what we all want. 

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

We are on a good run and are behingd the manager now it is only 4 or 5 weeks since some on here were wanting him out. Most posters on here i think are being cautious rather than moaning. At the start of the season we did not have the rub of the green which would have turned the draws against spurs, QPR and West Ham into wins. against Arsenal , Man Utd and Everton the performances were outstanding but we got that odd bit of good fortune when it was needed. Other than QPR noone is being left behind at the moment and indeeed such as Newcastle are getting dragged in. Our defence is probably as good as it has ever been in over 20 years but set against that being the lowest scores in the league with QPR and Villa. We could be on 20 points or so after 19 games which puts us well placed at the halfway mark which leaves the second half f the season with all to play for. January will define a lot ofwhat happens which of the bottom 8 or so make good or bad signings, ourself included. Hughton has excelled himself so far in the transfer market and a Belgian striker who hits the deck running would not surprise me

[Beefy is a legend 224]

I suppose it depends on how you define ''half-hearted''. My definition would be something along the lines of not giving 100% commitment (50% would be more reasonable if you take the phrase literally!) and all I''m saying Zipper is that it is easy, when things aren''t going your way, to simply blame the players for not giving it their all - it''s certainly much easier than going through the entire 90 minutes play by play, which I know is what Gary Karsa used to do and which no doubt the current coaching staff do, to determine where your tactical and individual shortcomings might have been.

We played much better second half and I agree with you on that, I''m just saying that, in my view, the reason for the improvement wasn''t simply that the players decided to play ''wholeheartedly'' when they weren''t doing that in the first half - that is too simplistic a view.

[ZLF 271]

half hearted, less intensity, complacent, sitting back - you are splitting hairs beefy. 

 

I will leave the final word to bassong who said after the game "we have... to keep working, keep shifting.  Because thats the only way we can get a result.  If we start thinking we are someone else its not going to work"

 

Garrido said something similar post match.  My conclusion is that CH reminded them quite strongly at half time that they were not applying themselves as well as they could and visibly we saw how much more they could give in the second half . 

[Bill 1,788]

" it will be a very difficult game"

 

There''s a shock to us all.

 

Every ruddy games is a difficult game. It is the Premier League so get used to it and start enjoying it rather than sitting around a ''bleatin'' and a whinin''

 

If we keep picking up points, we will keep climbing up the table - no matter who they are.

 

We need a Duncan Forbes, ''short sleeve shirt in the middle of winter'' mentality not this snivellin'' cap wringing, ''ever so ''umble mentality.

 

It is too early in the season to worry about others, so just set ''em up and we''ll knock en down.

 

Get it t''rum !

 

 

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I like the mood approaching this game.

 

There is a strong awareness of Southampton''s strengths which will serve us well because if we nullify their attack we can look to exploit their weaknesses below that obvious strength.

 

Southampton''s biggest strength though is their confidence and sense of momentum. They are like us last season and playing well above themselves. The same goes for their fans and the atmosphere this creates but.....so much depends upon when you meet sides as form is cyclical for most. There is no doubt QPR had stopped playing for Hughes and his rein was in it''s death throes. Follow that up with a Newcastle side in a really poor run of form who looked a shambles as a unit and who seldom seem to play well in the South.

 

This leads onto the final question; what sort of Norwich team will they now meet. On paper, a tough unit, well drilled and on a very consistent run. A side that gives little away but a side you might fancy throwing some caution to the wind against because they don''t score many. I suspect Southampton will take that course and this is where we can hit them. I suspect they will give free kicks away and those balls we send in from wide are proving the biggest weapon in our armoury.

 

Chris Hughton will have been able to have a very good look at Southampton; he will have a plan. I suspect Bunn will play tonight too; he could have a mare but early signs suggest he will be determined to seize his chance which makes him better than a not fully fit JR.

 

Its a fascinating game and we need more of our consistent same right from the off. Southampton fans need to discover they have just met two sides struggling but here is a reality check. We have moved on from being like them last season, we have greater defensive strength and nous and need to use it. Unlike some sides we will not be taking them lightly.

 

A draw would be a truly excellent result. Anything more is a bonus but we play for a tactical win.

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

A good discussion this, except for those insisting on only one view. I get the feeling that CH has never been ''complacent'' in his life, and from what I''ve seen of CC and PT the same is true of them. I don''t think there was complacency against Everton, but I was worried that City didn''t have a single shot on target in the first half.

Like Canary Girl, I think that City now has the strongest squad in the 40+ years I have been supporting them. CG is right to point out the Spurs result and the play that produced it in spite if 10 changes in the starting line-up. It used to be that if a player got injured another would have to play out of position or a youngster would have to come in. Now there''s quality cover at 12 positions (including the Wes role in the hole).

To make all this work though, the commitment of the last 7 unbeaten matches has to be carried through week after week, and that seems to be what CH and Javier Garrido have been emphasising. Or you could just say OTBC!