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Norwich  R  Us

Negative Negative Negative

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.... NO, not the team, formation or gameplan.... but the moannnnners on this message board. Let''s have a dose of reality:

- We are 7 points clear of the relegation zone.

- We are equal on points with Liverpool.

- We are 2 points behind Arsenal.

- We are 3 points behind 6th place (Everton).

- The ONLY team on a longer unbeaten run in this league are Man City, the billionaire reigning League Champions.

- This is the ''dreaded'' 2nd season for us, we had major changes in club management during the summer, we have spent very little on transfers and our wage bill is not going to destroy us.

.....WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?!?!

I think the only possible root of this negativity is coming from one thing - entertainment, something I feel a lot of fans got too used to during our fast track ascent to the Premier League. Well if you think the grass is greener with a Blackpool esque "entertaining losers" methodology, then you are naive and have a very short memory of some very dark days.

This is a results business, never forget that, and right now we are a machine, grinding its way towards global broadcasting millions.

All round our club is stronger now than we have been in what 18 years? Do try and enjoy it people...

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Everyone is happy with the results nru.     But.............its obvious that we are not playing as well as we could.    We are still winning/drawing  but we know that some of the play in the final third can improve.   That is a POSITIVE.    

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Some people are never happy NRU.Personally I am ecstatic.Yes, we had to hold on for the points but that only makes up for the numerous other games when we didn''t get our just deserts. That''s Football, and at the end of the season you finish where you deserve to be.

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Another magnificent 3 points, to have 19 at this stage is an incredible achievement.

I do think some of the rhetoric on here is quite incredible - the major thread titled ''Time for Morison'' just makes me laugh considering all the stick he''s got before. No doubt after 2 games of not scoring there will be a thread ''Time for Jackson''.

I don''t know if people are aware that we defend as a team, and we attack as a team. Because we are much more defensive minded, the full backs don''t get forward as much, Holt is playing on his own, and that makes a big difference as to why we aren''t creating as much, and I''m not convinced a change in personnel is going to change that. Holt and Wes are our two best forward players so why change them?

The system continues to work wonders for us in terms of results and defensive resolve, and that is all any of us really need to worry about. In Hooton I trust.

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I agree with you all, can''t believe everybody is as negative as they are being, what more would you like.

A team on a small budget, change of management team, young but hungry squad, now at the lofty position of twelth on 19 points so early in the season is just rewards for not only the players but Hoots and the management team who were coping alot of stick early on.

We may not be playing with that swashbuckling attitude that we have the past 3 years but it''s not about that especially this year. This year it''s about staying in the premier league and receiving the additonal TV revenue that will allow us to add to the squad.

BTW, Bassong and Tettey in particular should have everybody feeling positive about our current position. It''s been along time since we have had quality like this in the squad.

Enjoy people we are heading into the festive season, you could be a QPR or Reading fan and I bet they would change positions with us if given half a chance.

OTBC

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Two points.

We are hard to play against and for many of our players it is a demanding system to play in and flourish. Great effort and discipline which isn''t as easy to appreciate as the going ho stuff.

We have come from behind a number of times in our great run and in pressing have looked impressive as a unit. The second half at Everton was the prime example for me.

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I''m with GP on this.   Why should discussing the team be construed as negative?    We have a squad.  The squad members that have come in have continued the good work - so I think would most that would come into to the team if given the chance.    No one I have seen is disappointed with our results and recent success.    Most of us would recognise that there are elements where our game can improve.   Its not rocket science - we are defending well as a team and are hard to beat - and doing enough to win matches.  The front end of the team could be gelling better and that is the area that is surely open for discussion.

Are people so insecure that they need to see exactly the same team every week?   There is no need to change it, but if  Hughton did want to change it a little - would people throw their hands up in horror?    Do people not see  the mistakes made and areas where we could improve still further?  

The only thing negative about the club at this moment is the title of this  thread.  

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well said GP & LDC.

 

Fabulous result and continues an amazing run of form.   Elements of the performance could be better (quite a few) but its the result that counts.

 

All this thread shows is that NCFC fans love a good moan - either about the team,  or fellow fans or both or threads on a website ;-)

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I understand what you are saying LDC, however...

It is too simplistic to divide up the team''s performances into ''attack'' and ''defence'' and then blame the forward players for not scoring. We attack and defend as a team and we have sacrificed some of our attacking potency in order to shore up the defence and IMHO that is why we don''t look quite as fluent - it''s easy to blame Wes and Holty but I think both of them have been playing really well during this run.

To improve our attacking play we could play the diamond with two up front, we could bomb forward the full backs, we could drop bradley for fox or howson but why would we want to do that when we are getting brilliant results week in week out?

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

well said GP & LDC.

 

Fabulous result and continues an amazing run of form.   Elements of the performance could be better (quite a few) but its the result that counts.

 

All this thread shows is that NCFC fans love a good moan - either about the team,  or fellow fans or both or threads on a website ;-)

[/quote]

 

All our players could be better. But they''re pretty damn good for where we''re at. Not sure if these players can perform much better in the system they are being asked to play. And there''s the rub. It''s the system that''s got us where we are. If we dump the system we wouldn''t be where we are. Eventually we will have better players if we can stay where we are. And many of our present players are playing themselves out of the club to make room for the better ones. That''s progress. The most amazing thing for me is that Holt and Hoolahan haven''t played themseves out of the team right from the bottom of League One to mid-table Premier League. Two of the biggest legends in the clubs history.

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]I understand what you are saying LDC, however...

It is too simplistic to divide up the team''s performances into ''attack'' and ''defence'' and then blame the forward players for not scoring. We attack and defend as a team and we have sacrificed some of our attacking potency in order to shore up the defence and IMHO that is why we don''t look quite as fluent - it''s easy to blame Wes and Holty but I think both of them have been playing really well during this run.

To improve our attacking play we could play the diamond with two up front, we could bomb forward the full backs, we could drop bradley for fox or howson but why would we want to do that when we are getting brilliant results week in week out?[/quote]

I have not blamed anyone one for anything in our recent run.   I personally think Holt has been excellent - his contribution to the team has always been more than just goal scoring.     Just because we are doing well does not mean we can''t criticise things.   For goodness sake,  we are not the finished article. The formation and way of playing is set - but the skill for the manager is now that everyone knows how we are going to play - how do we improve the attack.   If this means changing a player here and there - so what?   Whats the point in having a squad?    Bennett and Bunn have come in and done well.   If there is an injury and someone else comes in - I would expect that they would fit in well too. 

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You don''t think they can play better in the system?

So what about all the poor set pieces? Whenever we put a good one in, we always look like scoring. But we are putting in far too many poor to average FKs and corners.

Hoolahan''s shooting and final ball, we know that can be better. He''s been very good, but sometimes he''s just not providing that final ball/shot in areas of the pitch where he has the ball that we know he can.

Pilks, has been extremely inconsistent, even more so than last season. He''s quality when on form, but his general crossing and set pieces have not been to the same standard. But he''s won us 6 points.

Holt, he''s been playing well yet not scored since Arsenal? Well we know he can do better than that, Holt playing well, and playing nearly every minute of every game normally equals goals.

We can improve with the players we have without changing the system. We are wasting chances and chances to create chances. We are getting the ball into the right areas of the pitch plenty of times. Obviously no one expects us to score loads and never concede, but over the past 8 games we''ve certainly created enough and had more than enough of the ball in dangerous areas to score more goals. We should have scored at least one more against Villa, should have scored against Reading, Howson against Man.U, Southampton and Everton we had long spells when we could have scored at any time. And today, we had chances to score more goals.

People aren''t imagining this, and dreaming of some perfect football team. This is whats happening on the pitch.

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I think people on here are totally unrealistic. It''s easier to defend a set piece than attack one. I should think our success at set pieces is as good as most although I haven''t looked it up. During this 8 match run which sides have been better? This is football. Two teams play. 8 matches at this level is awesome. If we''re poor how bad are the rest?

 

 

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[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]I understand what you are saying LDC, however... It is too simplistic to divide up the team''s performances into ''attack'' and ''defence'' and then blame the forward players for not scoring. We attack and defend as a team and we have sacrificed some of our attacking potency in order to shore up the defence and IMHO that is why we don''t look quite as fluent - it''s easy to blame Wes and Holty but I think both of them have been playing really well during this run. To improve our attacking play we could play the diamond with two up front, we could bomb forward the full backs, we could drop bradley for fox or howson but why would we want to do that when we are getting brilliant results week in week out?[/quote]

 

Spot on

 

Hoolahan has been a revelation is his ''defensive'' play recently - getting stuck in their third of the pitch. We have come to expect this of Holt (who is getting stuck in even more), but not so much Hoolahan. Of corse, as said above, this is going to chnage our style quite a bit.

 

We appear to have worked on this by the way freekicks are approached. We have become quite deadly - and not too slow at getting them either. The second half one that saw Bassong quite deliberately trundle across the front of the goal and still head to ball back across the goal was a prime example.

 

I think some fans a going to have to accept that we have ''wised'' up a little recently. We don''t concede penalties like we first did in the PL, neither do we get our players sent of either. Some of what we do isn''t always pretty and can be frustrating, but far far less frustrating than trying to battle back into the PL, and far more pretty than Barnsley away would be.

 

I think we''ll accept another gutsy display like this if it gets us past Villa and into the semis - and if for this season it keeps us here, with a few million more for finishing mid table then I doubt there''ll be too many complaints, leastwhile amongst the 25,000 at Carrow Road there won''t.

 

So if we have to have a few ''little scrimmages'' than previous that may have to be the price for the time being.

 

 

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Who is saying we are poor?

No one is suggesting we should be scoring 6 goals and conceding none every game.

It is easier to defend than attack a set piece. But when we put a good ball, into the right area, we always look dangerous. But to be honest at the very least every other ball is over or under hit. To be honest some other teams have also been poor with set pieces. But some teams against us have been putting in lots of quality balls into the box and we''ve just dealt with them..

We ARE getting the opportunities to put the ball into the box on many occasions, from set pieces or open play and the general standard of crossing from Pilks and Snod has been low, with a few good FKs from Snod and the 2/3 Garrido has taken.

After watching the highlights again, we were lucky to win. Sometimes you need luck, so thats fine, but Sunderland really should have scored (how on earth did Kilgallon miss). Against Southampton we were perhaps unlucky, regardless of wether they were right decisions or not Lambert hand ball and no penalty for Snod, could have gone the other way. It was almost certainly ball to hand, and the defender perhaps got the ball, but sometimes those would have been given.

Against Reading after wonderful defensive work, clearing every single cross they put into the box, never looking like conceding despite a huge amount of pressure at times. We have three fantastic headed opportunities, all missed.

Against Villa, Hoolahan could have had two, Holt one or two, Bennett should have hit the target with a volley near the end, Snod did something stupid with the ball right at the end infront of the GK.

Against Man.U Howson should have scored. Against Everton we had a lot of good chances to equalise early on in the second half. Everton are one of the few sides who looked like they might score another, along with Sunderland, if only because of Baines.

Nearly every game we have looked very solid in defence, goals conceded either down to a simple mistake (Everton and VIlla) luck (Southampton) or a mix of not great defending and great finish (Sunderland) most of the rest of the time, bar a couple Sunderland chances, Baines and the odd other chance we''ve never looked like we would concede any more.

But in attack we have gone up against defences who aren''t quite as competent as ours, and wasted good chances. Down to bad luck and some poor quality than our side. I am firmly of the belief that (and this will be partly down to my obvious bias) we have wasted many more good opportunities to score than the other teams we have faced.

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Also mean''t to say if I didn''t, that I feel we have wasted chances to score because of our play, not because of the opposition defence.

Not exclusively of course, that''d be very insulting to the defences we''ve played against. But some chances are missed because of great GKs or defences, so chances are wasted because of poor finishing/final balls and some are just wasted because of bad luck. I think on too many occasions its been the latter two for us. Today we got some luck and Sunderland failed to take an easy chance to score. But we didn''t take advantage, through Pilkingtons decent shot, the few set pieces, Holt''s over the bar attempt or Hoolahan''s bursting into the box to get a 3rd. All good enough attacking movements to get a goal from.

These players have been good enough, no one is saying otherwise. You don''t win 4 and draw 4 away games in the PL (in a row) with poor players and play. But these players can do better, we''ve seen it before, we''ve seen it in spells during this run. I''l say it again, if you think our attackers are doing the best they can in the current system then i''m quite disappointed in how lowly you rate them.

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I''m getting dizzy Gpele. You say so much you tie me up in knots. If every team never made a mistake I think each game would finish 0-0 and penalty shoot-outs would never end. 5 of our 13 goals have been from set pieces. Nearly 40%. If we had different attacking options we could probably get that figure down by scoring more from open play. But this season has been about tightening up. It''s ridiculous to want to bench players for an 8 match unbeaten run in one of the top leagues in the world.

 

 

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And we have tightened up. Considerably so.

But our attacking play hasn''t suffered half as much as some might suggest.

I''m not saying bench any players because we haven''t been good enough, but bench players because we can be better. We know Pilks can be better, without changing the system. Snod could be better. Holt has probably never not scored in 8 games when playing so well.

And we may have scored 40% of our goals from set pieces, thats because when we put in a good delivery we are very dangerous. Why is the delivery so inconsistent? I''m not saying if we put in 5 good balls we''ll score 5 goals, but 5 good balls we might score a couple. Because at the moment we are putting in 2/3 a game and scoring.

Pilks & Snod have not been perfect. Elliot Bennett is a perfectly capable player who offers something a bit different, and never did anything to deserve being dropped in the first place. Snod has done well to score and set up a goal in the last two games despite not playing well. Maybe if Bennett started instead of Snod, we''d score from a FK still because Garrido has put in 2 or 3 decent balls out of 2 or 3 FKs would take it, and Bennett might create a better chance in open play than Snod has managed.

Its all theoretical, but still. We are not at our best, I am almost certain of that. For me, thats fantastic. You don''t seem to agree with me at all.

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Oh come on Nutty, you''re better than that...

If you''re going to start having little digs at me, I will just stop posting. I know I post a hell of a lot all over the forum, but still the main reason I bother is because of Rays Funds, and because you run that thread. If Mungo was running it do you think as many people would like it?

If you don''t like the way I post, don''t bother getting into a discussion with me please. You must know its how I work by now...

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I''m not having a dig buddy. I honestly have totally lost whatever point you''re making. Probably because it''s two threads. Simply, why do you want to bench players who have taken us on this unbeaten run up the table?

 

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Its quite funny really, because I was delighted earlier. And when my Grandad phoned me after the match he wasn''t half as pleased as I was.

I''ll give you a few of my tweets from during/after the match as well just to give you some background info: (from after to during, going backwards for some reason)

I love Norwich City Football Club.

Anyone who thinks we''ll get relegated can get stuffed. We don''t even have to play well to get results. Sign of a good team.

YES we hang on, 2-1 win. 4 Home wins in a row, 8 unbeaten, 12th in the table. Get in there

Johnson, you let me down there. I''m not happy at all with that. (after he overhit that pass to Pilks)

Love it when Holty rushes back and wins the ball.

Great ball in from Garrido, should be taking set pieces more often... Great opportunity.

Why do players appeal for anything and everything? Do they really think the ref will give them something because they stick their arm up?

Think we deserve more than a 1 goal lead, but good game so far. Playing well. Hopefully we come out looking for more goals in the 2nd half

Was that pass from the one and only Bradley Johnson?

WE''RE NORWICH CITY WE''LL SCORE WHEN WE WANT

So, there you go. I was perfectly happy with the team and the result. Always have been. I love this club. I an over the moon with the run we are on. But that doesn''t mean we are perfect.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m not having a dig buddy. I honestly have totally lost whatever point you''re making. Probably because it''s two threads. Simply, why do you want to bench players who have taken us on this unbeaten run up the table?

 

[/quote]

Fair enough.

You are making it sound much harsher than I am thinking it. I don''t want to bench anyone because they aren''t good enough. Only because there are a few things, based on what i''ve seen us do, that we could be doing a bit better. Not a lot better, just a bit. I think if a player or two drops to the bench for even half a game, it could spur him, his replacement and the others on just to be that LITTLE bit better. I''m not asking for huge improvements, i''m not saying we are rubbish. We are fantastic, we can just be more fantastic.

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I understand what you say LDC, if we are (apparently to a few) not firing on all cylinders and still on the second longest unbeaten run in the League, then it is a positive, because God knows what will happen when we start playing at full potential. I think I will check that my passport is up to date!

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"that we could be doing a bit better"

 

And there GP, lies the difference bewtween you and nutty over this matter. Sure we ''could'' be doing better, but it is a case of could not would. You may feel certain players could be ''swapped'', with the incoming players then doing better, hut there is no guarantee they would do better.

 

Nutty appears to think that given the results we have achieved over the past 9 games there is no point in doing something that isn''t any more than ''could''.

 

I tend to agree with him, if only for the reason the old cliche has ''if it ain''t broke don''t try and fix it''.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The results speak for themselves.Everything else is speculation and opinion. Interesting, yes but I can''t see Hughton doing anything different while we are steadily picking up points.

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Agreed.

Hughton made a big thing yesterady about having the same team for 3 games ina  week, and if he were to drop someone from this team (unbeaten), then I shudder what that would do to morale. Would that mean, as soon as we lose a game, that there would be wholesale changes? I think not.

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