New Stadium

[Tumbleweed 106]

It takes around 8 years to find your way round an Ikea store.

Maybe Tom thinks that by going on and on about this that eventually someone will think he''s a footballing genius, rush in with the bulldozers and move us to somewhere completely stupid. In fact why not move us to RAF Coltishall, or ground share at Diss, or in one of those swathes of semi derelict light industrial land in Great Yarmouth. Better still sell up and enter the digital age with no stadium but a direct video feed to an interactive 3D helmet so you don''t even need to move from your armchair but can still get some annoying smart ares slagging off Chris Martin in your left ear.  

[shefcanary 2,393]

Tom, Ikea is a blind alley.

 

Ikea don''t do City Centres any more - Sheffield City Council have been trying to get Ikea to invest here for ages, but the Council are saying it must be within the inner ring road, whilst Ikea want it somewhere on the outside of the outer ring road.  There are plenty of sites available inside the inner ring road (due to economic downturn), but it would mean shoppers having to queue for ages in inner city traffic (anyone who has ever been to an out of town Ikea will confirm if the queues they encounter there were combined with inner city traffic then might as well prepare as if for an expedition to the south pole), as Ikea see their main market as Car borne customers (to keep their own transport costs down).  Ikea would prefer to be based at Meadowhall but that would be final nail in coffin of Sheffield City Centre shopping.  I''m sure the discussions Tom intimates to are going on, but in exactly the same debate.  Ikea would probably jump at the chance to have some land at the UEA or the Showground!

 

As usual Purple has it totally right.  The only route I can see to either a new stadium or the replacecment of the City / GW Stand is from someone effectively giving the club free money.  Again I posit the potential of selling naming rights for a long period of time a la the Arse (does anyone have an opinion on this), or some kind of joint venture with an educational establishment wanting some extra city centre space for the latter.  Billionaires just don''t seem attracted to FCR whilst connections to London are so poor.

 

 

[Kirby_86 0]

I can''t see us moving to a new stadium anytime soon.I honestly can see Carrow Road being expanded to 35,000 in the coming years (only if we stay in The Premier League) Then the question is,could it be expanded to more than 35,000?!

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="shefcanary"]

Tom, Ikea is a blind alley.

 

Ikea don''t do City Centres any more - Sheffield City Council have been trying to get Ikea to invest here for ages, but the Council are saying it must be within the inner ring road, whilst Ikea want it somewhere on the outside of the outer ring road.  There are plenty of sites available inside the inner ring road (due to economic downturn), but it would mean shoppers having to queue for ages in inner city traffic (anyone who has ever been to an out of town Ikea will confirm if the queues they encounter there were combined with inner city traffic then might as well prepare as if for an expedition to the south pole), as Ikea see their main market as Car borne customers (to keep their own transport costs down).  Ikea would prefer to be based at Meadowhall but that would be final nail in coffin of Sheffield City Centre shopping.  I''m sure the discussions Tom intimates to are going on, but in exactly the same debate.  Ikea would probably jump at the chance to have some land at the UEA or the Showground!

 

As usual Purple has it totally right.  The only route I can see to either a new stadium or the replacecment of the City / GW Stand is from someone effectively giving the club free money.  Again I posit the potential of selling naming rights for a long period of time a la the Arse (does anyone have an opinion on this), or some kind of joint venture with an educational establishment wanting some extra city centre space for the latter.  Billionaires just don''t seem attracted to FCR whilst connections to London are so poor.

 

 

[/quote]

 

shef, I think selling the naming rights is a distinct possibility, and there might be executives boxes in the plan, to be sold or long-leased, to reduce the cost. Ditto with the idea of a joint venture. But the basic trouble still is that it is hard to see - under current circumstances - when we could ever justify diverting any money from the playing budget to pay off the capital and/or interest charges there would certainly still be. Even if, as some who know more about loan finance than I do have said, the annual cost wouldn''t be that high. The chances are that, even if we solidify our position in the leage, it is still always going to feel as if we are clinging on by our finger tips, and so feel the need to provide the manager with every available penny.

[shefcanary 2,393]

Agreed Purple - I''ve only really ever discussed the extension / replacement being built from "free" money - that is money that would never have been given to team budgets in the first place, and thus totally ring-fenced. 

[Canary Lad 0]

Don''t know if anyone mentioned it here, but there are plans to build a Speedway track/stadium at the Showground.

[Bill 1,788]

just had the last post taken down

 

no offensive language, racist stuff or similar

 

but it did gently poke fun at the nonsense put up by the OP

 

shame he doesn''t have the integrity to answer questions, rather than running to ''sir''

 

 

ps try contrasting it with the thread above where the chap wants to take his baby into London Road

 

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Canary Lad"]Don''t know if anyone mentioned it here, but there are plans to build a Speedway track/stadium at the Showground.[/quote]

Yes, the showground are now willing to ''lease'' land for a new stadium.A large part of the cost of a new stadium is in purchasing land so being able to lease land can make a new stadium a cost effective option.That is why when you consider:

- The value of FCR,- The £45m that a new stand at FCR would cost, - Higher grants are available towards a new stadium than redeveloping an existing stadium, - Being able to lease land rather than purchase it, - Not having to suffer a reduced capacity and reduced ticket revenue whilst the work is being done, - Not having to suffer from reduced parking because the car park behind the Jarrold Stand has already been sold for housing.- If the club built a stadium at the Showground then the club wouldn''t need to pay to build a stadium car park because one is there already.- The showground site already has direct bus services into Norwich city centre and the UEA.- Teaching space at a new stadium (or a new stand at FCR) could be leased to the Uni or college.- A new stadium has lower maintenance costs.Better value might be had from moving to a new stadium. It would certainly be foolhardy to completely rule it out without first getting the club, the showground owners, the council, and UEA around a table to discuss what could be possible.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Canary Lad"]Don''t know if anyone mentioned it here, but there are plans to build a Speedway track/stadium at the Showground.[/quote]


- The £45m that a new stand at FCR would cost,

- Higher grants are available towards a new stadium than redeveloping an existing stadium,

[/quote]

I see Tom is still trying to wind people up.

£45m for a new stand, eh? I thought it was £31m that was recently being quoted?

Grants for a new stadium in the Norwich area..........from whom?

 

 

 

[Indy 3,297]

I can''t believe you keep coming back for more response from the Borefinder General tom!

 

I tend to agree with City1st though, you''re grasping at straws which are not going to happen in the present climate.

 

The best that will happen is a slight increase in seating and maybe eventually an increas to 32,000 at Carrow Road.

 

 

[kingsway 94]

Not this old chestnut again from Tom Cavendish!!!!

 

The present publicly stated they investigated the possibilities of moving to a new stadium and come to the conclusion that theres no need to move because Carrow Road is ideal in being near the train station, not far from the A47 bypass, walking distance from the City and can be expanded to as much as what the club will ever need!

 

The ground can be expanded to over 40,000 though thats unlikely. Bigger new stands can be built where the present main stand, Barclay and River end stands are situated, an upper tier can be put on the top of the Jarold stand and the area in front of the Hotel can be used to increase capacity!

 

Moving to a new ground elsewhere would increase the logistical problems, not solve them. For instance any new ground would be a distance away from the train station which would mean that the high % of fans who go to games on the trains would have to be bussed from the station of would get fed up with this and drive themselves!

 

Like the Board have worked out and anyone who looks into it properly and have knowledge of the area and football club would also work out is that we are better off where we are so no need to change things. All this stuff about we don''t want to move to a retail park soulless ground doesn''t acknowledge that the area around Carrow Road, specifically Riverside has become exactly that anyway, the difference being the ground hasn''t lost any of its character and the area still remains the traditional heartland of Norwich City FC. Cavendish says that the land the stadiums on could be sold to a large retail outlet, well Riverside has units that have been shut for quite a number of years now. - The City doesn''t need more empty units!

 

Give up on this Cavendish, you are miles off on this one!¬

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Canary Lad"]Don''t know if anyone mentioned it here, but there are plans to build a Speedway track/stadium at the Showground.[/quote]

- The £45m that a new stand at FCR would cost, - Higher grants are available towards a new stadium than redeveloping an existing stadium, [/quote]

£45m for a new stand, eh? I thought it was £31m that was recently being quoted?

Grants for a new stadium in the Norwich area..........from whom?

 [/quote]

The true cost of the stand was given as £2.25m per year for 20 years which is £45m.

Football clubs can apply for grants from a central fund towards stadium improvements. Higher grants are given for new stadiums rather than redeveloping existing stadiums. There have been various names given to the scheme but it is in partnership with the national lottery.

[lake district canary 0]

I belong to the "If it ain''t broke, don''t fix it" school of thought.   Some people think that change is a good thing.   Some companies think it is necessary to change on a regular basis - which often boils down to change for the sake of change. 

The facts are that we have a good stadium in prime position in the city.   There is room to add a few seats at some stage where the hotel is and26,000-28,000 is a good sized stadium for the demand we have or are ever likely to have, imo.

Mr Cavendish is persistent - sometimes persistence pays off - but if this persistence ever turned into reality it would be a sad day for the club.   The club would lose supporters - especially older ones who don''t like change - and the fantastic 35,000 - 40,000 stadium would be playing to a high percentage of empty seats.   

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Well everytime it''s mentioned the board always dismiss it immediately. So I guess when the club changes hands and a new board take over, perhaps one of these shiny new investors who actually invest feck all, then Carrow Road will get sold, the dosh get trousered, and the council will come up with a freebie..

 

 

 

 

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="kingsway"]an upper tier can be put on the top of the Jarold stand and the area in front of the Hotel can be used to increase capacity!

 [/quote]

If so, then why don''t the club do that as it would surely cost a lot less money than replacing the City stand?

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="City1st"]

just had the last post taken down

 

no offensive language, racist stuff or similar

 

but it did gently poke fun at the nonsense put up by the OP

 

shame he doesn''t have the integrity to answer questions, rather than running to ''sir''

 

 

ps try contrasting it with the thread above where the chap wants to take his baby into London Road

 

[/quote]Which has also now been deleted.  I suppose if you can''t beat them, you can always join them.

[Bill 1,788]

So what else was taken down ? Well here''s the gist of another post taken down, I leave others to decide why someone may not want others to read these questions.

 

It was claimed earlier by the OP that

 

"Ikea are currently looking for a site in Norwich"

 

When challenged by ''Til'' for the source, no response was forthcoming - though this quote from the OP was taken down

 

"As I have said before, Ikea don''t have a store in the East and want a store"

 

an admittamce that there is no evidence beyond his imagination, an imagination that also has -

 

"for £40m the club could have a new 40k stadium with a massive new car park etc. etc"

 

and within that new stadium there  -

 

"could have some student flats as part of the stadium"

 

This is all farcical nonsense that doesn''t stand up to even the briefest scrutiny, as two other points I made in the deleted post show. It cost Brighton around £90m for their 28,000 seater stand and Coventry around £110,000m for their new stadium of 32,000 seats. 

 

There is no way you could construct a new stadium for £40m even with the added £20m (!) supposedly from the sale of Carrow Road. It might be worth noting that if the much vaunted Bristol Rovers scheme goes ahead (again deferred by the planners), a rather larger site sold for retail use, it is expected to fetch around only around £10m-£15m.

 

Maybe if this ''idea'' had any worth the person behind it might actually answer questions put by posters - as I''m sure those reading the tread are quite capable of deciding what makes sense and what doesn''t. Hiding behind the moderators skirts won''t make an argument any more valid, but may cause some to wonder why those questions are constantly being dodged. 

 

 

 

[The Gingerking 5]

Waheeeeey! The stadium debate is back. It''s a white hole again! http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=TxWN8AhNER0 

[kingsway 94]

["kingsway"]an upper tier can be put on the top of the Jarold stand and the area in front of the Hotel can be used to increase capacity!

 

Tom Cavendish 

If so, then why don''t the club do that as it would surely cost a lot less money than replacing the City stand?

 

 

Kingsway

 

I suspect an upper tier for the Jarold stand would be even more expensive than a new main stand because when the Jarold stand was built many people have been led to believe that sufficient foundations for a possible future upper tier construction wern''t included in the 2003-04 in order to reduce the costs. I''ve heard this theory many times by people who say this is why we can''t put an upper tier on the Jarold stand, but I know that upper tiers can be built on top of stands without the original stands including the neccessary foundations. This is why in the 1990''s Glasgow Rangers built a third tier above their main stand which was built in the late 1920''s!

 

Suffice to say if the Jarold stand hasn''t got the foundations required for an upper tier then if the club wanted to build such a structure the costs would be absolutely collosel, much more than a new main stand?

 

But back to the thread subject - no chance of moving away from Carrow Road end of story!