Was the drop to league 1 a necessary catalyst?

[a1canary 0]

City1st, your endless attempts to shout down my opinion, which you have variously referred to as ''drivel'', ''guff'' as ''misinformation'' and a ''myth'' really don''t help you. You must know that people who can only resort to aggressively talking down any opinion that is contrary to their own only discredit themselves and their arguments. You come across like a bully. Not that it bothers me, but i do wonder if you realise what you sound like?

Back on topic, i absolutely contend that wages - relative to income - are the fundamental cause of their debts. Hell, they are the fundamental cause of the myriad basket cases up and down the land. People have been saying it for years - wages in football have gone way too high on the coat tails of the handful of clubs who can actaully afford them. I can''t believe i''m actually having to tell you this, everyone knows it.

Interest charges? Where do they come from? Debts. What created the debts? Over inflated wages that weren''t covered by club income. That has been the case in binland from the moment they were first relegated in the early noughties, long before Evans showed up.

Amortisation i''m surprised is as high as i can''t recall any significant transfers fees they have paid in the last few years that it must relate to. But it should be obvious to anyone except you maybe that wages make up the vast majority of the club costs.

[nutty nigel 7,963]

Yep wages a1. But then I get back to the question that you''re all bored with. There''s not that great a difference between their wages and what ours were at the time of our decline yet where our debt went up by less that 4m theirs went up by 40m. And during that time they sold the boy blunder and shrek walters.

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

Why not cut out the whinging (and maybe the drivel as well)

 

"Interest charges? Where do they come from?"

 

The £30m or so debt bought from Norwich Union. A debt that Evans supposedly only paid £6m for. The interest on the £8.1m of preference shares - around £540,000 annually.

 

You would do well to actually check what you are writing about before spouting off on here amd also not bleat out stuff that is not specific to the paupers when you are trying to defend them. Their plight is not one of heavy debt, that is a mere consequence of Evans using them as a tax dodge. Their plight is that they have an owner who doesn''t really give a stuff about the footballing side of things.

 

This debate started as a question on how much of a necessity relegation was to CITY as a means of getting back on track, before you chose to use it as a vehicle to tell us all well all things would be at poorman road were they to be relegated. Well, the evidence points to the opposite. You might have reasons for trying to spin it in their favour, but the reality is that they are slowly sliding further and further down the plughole.

 

So my suggestion to you is take another look at those accounts you posted. Ask yourself whether any of those wages are perhaps non football wages, ask yourself why the amortisation figure is so high ...............and, what City fans might make of your wish to defend our impoverished neighbours so intently.

 

 

[a1canary 0]

Quite bored now.

I am defending my view that i think they could recover if they went down to L1. It has nothing to do with who they are, our rivalry wth them or me "defending" ITFC.

Let''s ask - other city fans, what do you make of my posts on this thread? Am i defending ITFC, or merely putting a view across that relates to them? Am i a binner maybe?

[a1canary 0]

What was our income relative to wages in that time Nutty? I haven''t got the accounts but i think Zipper said it was well above our wages, unlike the binfolk. They have been running large defecits year after year, and that is guaranteed to push the debt up quickly. The boy blunder was some light relief, much like Osborne using the 4G sale to soften the blow to the country''s debt levels from running continued defecits.

Binfolk or UK plc - whose finances are in a worse state, you decide?!

[nutty nigel 7,963]

Remember that when we dropped to League One our player budget was much the same as champions Wolves but even if we assume that they are soooo poorly run that thier wages are 4m a year more than ours were it would still take years to lose another 40m. Especially when you consider they''ve got one of those sought after shiny new investors pumping in millions on top....

 

 

[Kirby_86 0]

Getting relegated down to League 1 in 2009 then that 7-1 thrashing by Col U was the massive kick up the behind the club needed to make serious changes and have a big think.Look at the success we have had since.Just goes to show sometimes you need to hit rock bottom.You could argue Col U was one of the most famous and infamous days in the history of our club.

[ZLF 342]

The question was whether ipswich could bounce straight back.   As they are fairly heavy wage payers (exceeding our levels) I would say they COULD bounce back if getting the right players in.  It would give them a chance to get rid of some chaff and pay for some talent - if they can spot it.   The only dependency would be on ME continuing to fund wages at or near exitsing levels for a year.

 

if it works winning breeds confidence so promotion is possible.

 

As for why their debts have risen,  I dont really care,  but suspect its a paper debt which will only become problematic when/if ME walks away.  but its their problem

[SwindonCanary 457]

I hope one day Delia & Michael write a book about their time at Norwich. I would love to have been a fly on the wall at the meeting where they got everything right and turned the club around.

[nutty nigel 7,963]

It would be a great book Swindon. But I don''t think it will ever happen. They are not the type to dish the dirt or to even look back. It''s always been obvious that their focus is forwards and their considerations are the club and us fans.

 

When people are genuinely selfless a lot of folk always suspect ulterior motives. That says more about them than it does the people they are suspicious of.

 

 

[Indy 3,493]

Well Nutty, as this is my formed opinion I''m sure you''ll keep digging the same as your twin does the Borefinder General, so this is the last I will post on this subject:

 

Indy - As Bowkett invested zilch what do you suppose he took with him to the bank to renegotiate those interest payments?

 

As far as I am aware Bowkett was involved in the restructuring of the loans, even without investment, some form of assurance would have been given to the banks for them to consider the restructuring of the finances, but not being privy to the meeting, not knowing the detail we can only form opinions.

 

As for what Delia needs. I rather suspect the Delia name is an earner for the club and not the other way around. How much do you suppose Delia has made from the Norwich City brand?

 

My point there is by being linked with the club, the TV that comes with that and the press coverage certainly aided Delia in her TV advertising, links to supermarkets, book sales and other business ventures. I’m sure had Delia not been our beloved owner since 1996, her other links might not have happened. So in that respect NCFC and Delia have profited from each other.

 

[nutty nigel 7,963]

[quote user="Indy"]

Well Nutty, as this is my formed opinion I''m sure you''ll keep digging the same as your twin does the Borefinder General, so this is the last I will post on this subject:

 

Indy - As Bowkett invested zilch what do you suppose he took with him to the bank to renegotiate those interest payments?

 

As far as I am aware Bowkett was involved in the restructuring of the loans, even without investment, some form of assurance would have been given to the banks for them to consider the restructuring of the finances, but not being privy to the meeting, not knowing the detail we can only form opinions.

 

As for what Delia needs. I rather suspect the Delia name is an earner for the club and not the other way around. How much do you suppose Delia has made from the Norwich City brand?

 

My point there is by being linked with the club, the TV that comes with that and the press coverage certainly aided Delia in her TV advertising, links to supermarkets, book sales and other business ventures. I’m sure had Delia not been our beloved owner since 1996, her other links might not have happened. So in that respect NCFC and Delia have profited from each other.

 

[/quote]

 

You know what Indy.......

 

 

My nan used to say if you can''t say something nice keep it zipped[:#]

 

I often wonder about folk who make the last post ...

 

 

Why bother...

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

And I''m sure your nan would have told you not to keep digging, that''s not what forums are about

 

People like Indy and others should be free to post up any old nonsense they wish without folks questioning the whys and wherefores of that nonsense

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,963]

Can''t see what I posted to warrant that from Undie but then....

 

maybe you found one[;)]

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

where''s the ''59 cartoon gone ?

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,963]

It''ll be back..

 

I''ve been having a bit of trouble with the doctors[+o(]

 

One of  ''em''s in a right state..

 

[Mister Chops 11]

I''ve been having a bit of trouble selling some of my fixed assets, but no longer...[img]http://images.kw.com/agent_photos/0/5/4/054897/Sold_By_Tangie_1242057614411.jpg[/img]

[Crafty Canary 556]

Oh look, the trolls are out and about. They must have finished the bogs early. Surprised Plod hasn''t joined them.

[lake district canary 0]

Real Dr Crafty BSc wrote: "look, the trolls are out and about."

Takes one to recognise one.......

[TIL 1010 5,300]

[quote user="Real Dr Crafty BSc PhD DipEM "]Oh look, the trolls are out and about. They must have finished the bogs early. Surprised Plod hasn''t joined them.[/quote]

What exactly is your signature all about if that is not the work of a troll ? As i said on another thread you and your brother just love dishing it out but as some sort of response is heading your way somebody alerts Pete by showing him your victim card.

[Crafty Canary 556]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Real Dr Crafty BSc wrote: "look, the trolls are out and about."

Takes one to recognise one.......

[/quote]

Hey, Plod. This one''s for you.

[Crafty Canary 556]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Real Dr Crafty BSc PhD DipEM "]Oh look, the trolls are out and about. They must have finished the bogs early. Surprised Plod hasn''t joined them.[/quote]

What exactly is your signature all about if that is not the work of a troll ? As i said on another thread you and your brother just love dishing it out but as some sort of response is heading your way somebody alerts Pete by showing him your victim card.

[/quote]

What''s in my signature is my business not yours but then you do like to order others about.

As for alerting Pete I have noticed that when the heat gets turned up on your mob the threads suddenly disappear or get edited. Now who is telling Pete about these I wonder?

[Mister Chops 11]

[quote user="Real Dr Crafty BSc PhD DipEM "]

What''s in my signature is my business not yours but then you do like to order others about.

As for alerting Pete I have noticed that when the heat gets turned up on your mob the threads suddenly disappear or get edited.[/quote]Honest question.  How old are you?

[Crafty Canary 556]

Old enough to know that you stand up to bullies!.

[Mister Chops 11]

[quote user="Real Dr Crafty BSc PhD DipEM "]Old enough to know that you stand up to bullies!.[/quote]A good, if slightly evasive, response.

[nutty nigel 7,963]

I saw this and thought of you Crafty....

 

[Crafty Canary 556]

Harrassment of other posters is an infringement of the forum rules. You can keep the campaign going for as long as you like but it has no effect on me and I''ll still be here. As I say, never give in to the bully boys.

[nutty nigel 7,963]

[quote user="Real Dr Crafty the challenged bro"]Harrassment of other posters is an infringement of the forum rules. You can keep the campaign going for as long as you like but it has no effect on me and I''ll still be here. As I say, never give in to the bully boys.[/quote]

 

Like referring to them in your signature and only turning up on threads to start a ruck. The truth is that it has no effect on me because I really enjoy my time on this forum. But effect on you? Oh yesssss, bigtime. [Y] Oh... and I saw this and thought of you....

 

[Daz Sparks 1,578]

Thing is, was the drop to league one a necessart catalyst?

I`ve forgotten now what he general concensus was.

[nutty nigel 7,963]

What do you think Daz?