Stadium expansion?

[nutty nigel 7,527]

[quote user="Resident Canary Stig"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Steady On..."]Guaranteeing premier league status is impossible. Ask Leeds or newcastle or any team that''s fallen over the years. When it''s the right moment to expand, we will. My bet is the next few years regardless of what league we are in and it''s McNally that is driving it. He''s ambitious unlike some, thank god.[/quote]

 

Thank the Lord someone''s nailed it down at long last[Y]

 

 

[/quote]

...

The fact it will "be the next few years" was never in doubt. Unless I''ve missed the sarcasm in your post... which I sincerely hope I have.

[/quote]

 

Sharp as a knife you are Stig[Y]

 

 

[Steady On... 0]

^ see what I mean...

[Steady On... 0]

Meant city1st''s quote

A person so afraid of change I''m amazed he''s not accusing the computer he''s using of witchcraft and burning it at the stake.

[Bill 1,788]

I own up

 

It was me who wrote the report to the board regarding a new stand

 

None of the figures were from the marketing dept or ticket office, nothing from the finance dept either

 

Bowkett was not allowed to see it, just told to read it out on the night and the rest were under strict instructions to agree unanimously - I even had to get the club secretary to agree to lie

 

 

 

 

ps I welcome change, especially when it comes to anti club trolls, bring back wiz - at least the person behind that one put a bit of effort into it, ''steady on'' is basically crap ..... come back wiz

 

 

 

 

 

[Steady On... 0]

I fail to see how I''m anti-club. It is amazing how precious most of you are though. You certainly have sore spots and stadium expansion is one of them. A lot of you need to calm down about it and wise up that the city stand is going to be replaced and it will be linked to the 70 million we receive next year.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

The reality is IMO that anyone planning a major project needs external funding because there is not that level of capital and even if there was it is simply putting all your eggs into one basket.

For huge projects it is overseas investment funds; for big projects, like Castle Mall or Chapelfield it is general pension or investment funds and below that it is the likes of banks and building societies.

We live in straightened times and any lender wants certain guarantees. When Arsenal built their new stadium their likely involvement in Champions League football every year with resultant revenue was a calculated risk. Unfortunately, the calculation of Norwich City being in the EPL for the next 10 years is far less certain. In the current climate we are probably a risk too far.

So we would need to provide a larger proportion of capital ourselves; we would need to provide compelling evidence of improved revenue; we would need to spread the risk with sponsors or other occupies/tenets.

This is the challenge we face and in the medium term it is not achievable. But it must remain an ambition.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

[quote user="Steady On..."]I fail to see how I''m anti-club. It is amazing how precious most of you are though. You certainly have sore spots and stadium expansion is one of them. A lot of you need to calm down about it and wise up that the city stand is going to be replaced and it will be linked to the 70 million we receive next year.[/quote]

 

So is that when it''s being built? Work starts summer 2013?

 

That''s what the board said a while ago wasn''t it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steady On... 0]

They''ve made no announcement on any start to building works, your confused.

I hole you realise The figure of summer 2013 has just made some members of this board cough out they''re false teeth in horror.

We need to guarantee our premier league status. You can do that, right? You just need to get enough exp points and beat the big boss at the end and you guarantee it. It''s like a Xbox live achievement I think.

[basil brush 0]

The City Stand was almost obsolete upon construction, and has all the visual appeal that we were underinsured... :)

Whereas the River End is 32 years old and still is acceptable, the City Stand has always had a glorified ''Subbuteo'' look about it and I remember being completely underwhelmed when it was completed.

When it goes - which it will - I won''t be shedding too many tears. Anything will be an improvement!

[Steady On... 0]

I just hope that when we do replace the city stand we don''t call the new one after a sponsor and keep the Watling link. Not sure the "kettle chips stand" has a good ring to it...

I''d like to call it "The Geoffrey Watling stand II - Geoffrey Watling Harder"

[TIL 1010 4,737]

[quote user="Steady On..."]I''m pretty sure that there are people on here that don''t want expansion of carrow road out of fear of change.[/quote]

I really think i am wasting my time posting this as you are thick beyond belief but here goes.......Every single person connected with NCFC in an ideal world would love to improve facilities with a brand  new stand incorporating increased capacity but we still have external debt apart from what is owed to Smith,Wynn Jones and Foulger which i suppose they might like back sometime this century.

It is well documented that a new satnd would cost at least £20,000,000 and to service the borrowing we would have to sell out 90%-92% of capacity EVERY game.Those are the words of Mr Bowkett as recently as last Thursday night at the AGM. That is a risk that no right minded person would take until we are an established Premier League team as relegation would spell financial disaster.Bowketts friend Steve Morgan at Wolves who is in the construction business built a brand spanking new stand and relegation has followed so they are in deep poo poo with a massive debt to service in the Championship. Maybe you should give Mr Bowkett a call and give him some advice on how to repay multi million pound debts when your revenue is cut drastically by relegation.One season in the Premier League does not give us a God given right to stay there season after season.Until we have money stashed away for ground redevelopment or a multi billionaire pitches up at NCFC i am happy with a 27,000 seater Carrow Road but when the time is right i willl be the first to be excited about a larger more comfortable stadium.

 

 

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Apparently, the City Stand was built at a cost significantly less than the insurance money when the old stand burnt down. And there were no corners. Corner cutting all round.

[Steady On... 0]

For example the police are an organisation that infamously don''t fear change. Unless it involves modernisation of any description.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

[quote user="Steady On..."]They''ve made no announcement on any start to building works, your confused. I hole you realise The figure of summer 2013 has just made some members of this board cough out they''re false teeth in horror. We need to guarantee our premier league status. You can do that, right? You just need to get enough exp points and beat the big boss at the end and you guarantee it. It''s like a Xbox live achievement I think.[/quote]

 

I think you''re the one that''s confused. There is no commitment to build any stand even if we qualify for the ECL this season. The board have totally distanced themselves from previous statements which suggested it could happen. They''ve bottled it if you like. And the reason is quite possibly to be found in Rudolph''s post.

 

 

[Steady On... 0]

What!? Lol where''s the ECL thing come from? Bizzare.

The board aren''t making any decisions right now because they don''t have to. They haven''t bottled it at all there''s just nothing to do yet.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

Well aint that a rum ''un! Originally the board said that they would look to built a new stand if we had 3 season''s in the Prem. Now they''ve changed their minds. They''re worried about having to find 30m from the player budget. Because whether it''s capital or interest or a combination of both that''s where it comes from. They''re also worried about increased capacity reducing the sale of season tickets. Bowkett''s also got the wind up because of his buddy Steve Morgan''s experience last season.

 

But steady on, here''s your chance, Bowkett has said if someone came forward and offered to pay for the stand for us he''d bite their hand off.

 

 

[Steady On... 0]

Where has the 30m figure come from?

You clearly have a personal vendetta against expansion, if there are obstacles we just overcome them. Simple.

It''s just a case of doing it at the right time, the demand is clearly there. The "demand wouldn''t be there" argument is total crap as tickets would actually be advertised and incentives launched to fill the ground. We don''t do that currently because we don''t need to. People presume they can''t get tickets.

[PurpleCanary 5,556]

[quote user="Steady On..."]Where has the 30m figure come from? You clearly have a personal vendetta against expansion, if there are obstacles we just overcome them. Simple. It''s just a case of doing it at the right time, the demand is clearly there. The "demand wouldn''t be there" argument is total crap as tickets would actually be advertised and incentives launched to fill the ground. We don''t do that currently because we don''t need to. People presume they can''t get tickets.[/quote]

 

The £30m figure (actually £31m) is the figure Bowkett is reported to have given at the AGM last Thursday for the size of the loan necessary to increase capacity to 35,000.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="basil brush"]

The club has sold itself short on revenue from seats for many years, [/quote]No it didn''t. It invested in the future. Cheap tickets enabled the club to attract a larger fanbase. It is akin to a drugs pusher giving out free drugs to get people hooked and then charging full price.

[PurpleCanary 5,556]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Well aint that a rum ''un! Originally the board said that they would look to built a new stand if we had 3 season''s in the Prem. Now they''ve changed their minds. They''re worried about having to find 30m from the player budget. Because whether it''s capital or interest or a combination of both that''s where it comes from. They''re also worried about increased capacity reducing the sale of season tickets. Bowkett''s also got the wind up because of his buddy Steve Morgan''s experience last season.

 

But steady on, here''s your chance, Bowkett has said if someone came forward and offered to pay for the stand for us he''d bite their hand off.

 

 

[/quote]

 

I was about to make the offer, nutty, but then this bombshell:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/25/treasury-british-tax-havens-crackdown


That is what you get when you elect a Socialist government - the politics of envy.

[Zak Van Burger 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="basil brush"]

The club has sold itself short on revenue from seats for many years, [/quote]No it didn''t. It invested in the future. Cheap tickets enabled the club to attract a larger fanbase. It is akin to a drugs pusher giving out free drugs to get people hooked and then charging full price.

[/quote]A larger fanbase with nowhere to sit other than on their @rses in front of the wireless or a dodgy stream!

[The Gingerking 5]

Waheeeeeyyyyyyyy! Another stadium expansion thread. It must have been at least five minutes since the last one. The white hole returns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxWN8AhNER0

[Miss Jane Marple 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="kingsway"]

The only small increase in capacity would be temporary seats in front of the Hotel, something which was meant to have happened this summer. Aparently some shareholders of the Hotel wern''t in favour which seems strange cause more people going to the football would surely be beneficial to the Hotel, which aparently has been losingmoney in recent times!

[/quote]

Apart from Mr McNally saying the club were looking into the possibility of putting seats in the hotel corner the reference to shareholders objecting to this is news to me so can you enlarge on this and also the source to the hotel losing money ?

 

[/quote]

I am reading this that it is Holiday Inn shareholders who don''t want seats in front of the hotel. Is this whta you mean, my dear kingsway? Only TIL 1010 has confused me as he seems to be talking about NCFC shareholders.

 

I would imagine many hotel chains are losing money because of the poor economy not just Holiday Inn.

[Steady On... 0]

I suspect the talk of shareholder disquiet at stadium expansion may be a load of old arse. Along with the locked from the air figures many are quoting as fact.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

[quote user="Steady On..."]Where has the 30m figure come from? You clearly have a personal vendetta against expansion, if there are obstacles we just overcome them. Simple. It''s just a case of doing it at the right time, the demand is clearly there. The "demand wouldn''t be there" argument is total crap as tickets would actually be advertised and incentives launched to fill the ground. We don''t do that currently because we don''t need to. People presume they can''t get tickets.[/quote]

 

I wasn''t going to bother but being as you''ve come back today with more tripe I will reply to this. As Purple has said the 30m figure came from Bowkett. Or 31m to be presice. This was from the costings they had done at price per seat. What many people forget is that to increase capacity by even 4,000 it will require 8,000 new seats. The other obstacles I talked about are also not "simple to overcome". They are things that, despite having spent such a large amount on research, the board still have no acceptable answer to. Now you keep throwing around accusations towards my posts and others stating that we have a vendetta against expansion. Nobody in their right mind would have such a vendetta or anything so ridiculous. But you keep returning to this thread spouting what can only be described as ill-informed crap.

 

Steady On, you remind me of that guy we all hear in  the pub, the one with the loudest voice who thinks he knows best about everything. Next time you hear him don''t laugh at him just remember "that''s you that is".

 

 

[The Walking Man 13]

I think it is an inevitability that we will increase our capacity IF we stay in the premier league.

Next year there will be a massive increase in TV money but there is also serious talk of introducing a financial fair play system because it seems owners don''t want wages to increase at the same rate as the TV deal. Therefore I agree with Chelmsford Canary in that we should look to start building work soon (I.e. next year) whilst prices are relatively low and phase construction over a number of years to gain around a 40,000 capacity stadium (if it''s possible).

The reason for this is simply because I believe if you have the capacity along with the right marketing strategy we will have enough fans to fill a 40,000 seat stadium in a number of years time.

This is of course all reliant on staying in the Premier League!

[Chelmsford Canary 0]

I''ve just looked in Spon''s (a pricing book for construction) which details prices per unit (seat)

We want to increase by roughly 8,000.00 to 35,000 seats.

On top we increase that number by the amount we demolish (city stand - approximately 3,500) gives a total increase of 11,500 seats

Spon''s details a football stadia plus extensive facilites a cost of £1,100 - £1,400. Take the highest amount 11,500 @ £1,400 = £16,100,000.00

A stand with basic facilities will cost in region of £760 - £1,040. 11,500 @ £1,040 = £11,960,000.00.

These are feasibility costs, and don''t take into consideration of closing the roads, having any contingency, professional fees, or the biggest cost which will probably be the interest, and loss of ticket revenue from 3,500 from city stand.

Anyone got £16,100,000 to lend the club interest free?

[nutty nigel 7,527]

It''s 31m for an extra 8,000 seats (12,000) Chelmsford. The board have spent a large amount of money costing it.

 

 

[Steady On... 0]

It''s 30 million, its the official pinkun costed figure.

Brought to you by the same people that wanted to buy Michael Owen and thought Cody McDonald was the greatest ever striker

[Chelmsford Canary 0]

I''m sure they have Nutty...what i''m stating is actual construction costs are £16m.

It is nearly double, once you add all the extras on.

What does worry we is that the club employed Uni of East Anglia...I was not aware they had a Professional Quantity Surveying section!