No Walcott on Sat

[fleckfan 0]

One less goal threat to worry about with Theo injured, hope it keeps the goal difference down.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

He doesn''t usually start for Arsenal anyway at the moment - the real bonus would be if Carzola picks up a knock against the French tomorrow. (Although he is mainly a sub for Spain)

[fleckfan 0]

Just Giroud, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Gervinho amongst others to contain then...OTBC

[Tetteys Jig 830]

We''ve only just got a new metaphoric arsehole and we''re gonna be torn a new one again on sat! Damage limitation with a cheeky effort to get a 1-0 if arsenal have a rare off day

[Gingerpele 0]

I''d actually rather Walcott played, half the time he doesn''t know what he''s doing...

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]I''d actually rather Walcott played, half the time he doesn''t know what he''s doing...[/quote]

Yeah, over 20 goals in the last two seasons combined and 14 assists last year alone - but ''doesn''t know what he is doing''. FFS

[Proper Charlie 0]

Cazorla is definitely their danger man his touch and close ball control is unreal. And judging by his goal against Wet Sham, his shooting''s not too bad either!!

[Stig 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]I''d actually rather Walcott played, half the time he doesn''t know what he''s doing...[/quote]

Ignoring all of his achievements I see?

Why is it that disliking Walcott is the cool thing to do these days?

[Gingerpele 0]

Well you can''t blame people for saying that.

You watch Arsenal, you watch him. When you have Van Persie in the box all you have to do is hit it near him and he''ll get on the end of it. I wouldn''t have been surprised if you said he had 30 assists last season.

But whenever I have watched him he always looks like he''s not sure what to do. He bursts through and HALF the time he doesn''t know what to do.

You decided to ignore that bit didn''t you, very clever of you. HALF. That doesn''t mean he''s rubbish all the time, why on earth do you think you can have a go when you can''t even be bothered to read the whole sentence?

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Proper Charlie"]Cazorla is definitely their danger man his touch and close ball control is unreal. And judging by his goal against Wet Sham, his shooting''s not too bad either!![/quote]

 

Right, thats it, they''re all getting Hexed tonight, now, where''s them Virgins?

[Gingerpele 0]

The cool thing to do?

I have my own opinions, I don''t care what other people think.

And he is a decent player, I was quite looking forward to watching him against San Marino last week, because I thought that bursting through would lead to a few goals because he''d be able to do it lots. If Walcott were that technically gifted he''d be one of the best players in the world. His best attribute is his running, he gets past players, he''s extremely fast and does well to keep the ball. But his final ball, wether that be a shot or cross isn''t at the same level as many other creative players. In my opinion he relies on quantity rather than quality.

[Stig 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Well you can''t blame people for saying that.

You watch Arsenal, you watch him. When you have Van Persie in the box all you have to do is hit it near him and he''ll get on the end of it. I wouldn''t have been surprised if you said he had 30 assists last season.

But whenever I have watched him he always looks like he''s not sure what to do. He bursts through and HALF the time he doesn''t know what to do.

You decided to ignore that bit didn''t you, very clever of you. HALF. That doesn''t mean he''s rubbish all the time, why on earth do you think you can have a go when you can''t even be bothered to read the whole sentence?[/quote]

Damn, GP man... I''m not "having a go" I''m just wondering why it is a lot of people that I talk to dislike Walcott. Last international break he came on for England and scored an absolute cracker. Did the same for Arsenal, yet people still seem to resent his presence on the pitch. Sure, there are the times when he flys down the wing and arrives way before the rest of his team so he is left wondering what to do.

If arsene wenger gives him the striker role he wants I reckon he will be sublime.

[Stig 0]

My bad, GP. Thought you were replying to my post at that point ;]

[Gingerpele 0]

I think there is a reason he is not played in the middle most of the time, he was a striker when Arsenal bought him. RVP before last season spent a lot of time out injured, they had players like Bendtner and Chamakh player in the middle, yet Walcott still didn''t really get a chance there.

And his ''cracker'' for England, it was a bit flukey wasn''t it? Ok, i''ll give him some credit and say he knew exactly where the keeper was, but the keeper was for some reason not very responsive when the ball went out of the box towards Walcott. But even if he mean''t to do exactly what he did, was still a lot of luck involved (but then again, I suppose a lot of ''crackers'' do)

[Gingerpele 0]

Just to re-establish for people who are unable to read all the words in a post.

Walcott is a good player, but I think he can be very hit and miss, there are some people who think he is completely useless. And then there are some people like Bethanl who get very upset if someone says they don''t like Walcott. I''m sorry but i''m fairly sure he took what I said as meaning something much worse. I didn''t say Walcott is rubbish and never does anything, in fact by me saying half the time he doesn''t know what he''s doing (knowing full well he does score and set up a fair few) thats actually a compliment because he must be doing what he''s doing a hell of a lot to be able to mess up half the time...

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

From all I''ve read about Arsenal their key player is Arteta, who was out (injured or suspended) for our 3-3 draw at the end of last season but presumably will be playing on Saturday.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Need to be in their faces on Saturday and rough them up a bit. If we stand off them and let them play like we did with Chelsea at times then it could be another dispiriting 90 minutes. Walcott''s absence would be welcome if you ask me because whilst he is a bit hit and miss when we played them last season we couldn;t cope with his pace in the first half and he gave us a bit of a torrid time. Whilst Oxlade Chamberlain is a good player he doesn;t carry quite the same threat for me as Walcott on a good day. The player i am most worried about is actually Gervinho as he seems to have started the season well and again is a quick player who runs at defenders.

[Gingerpele 0]

Do you think we will be in their faces?

I honestly don''t think Hughton likes that approach at all. Its a shame because I think it works for a team like ours, lots of pressure all over the pitch. Of course there are risks, but to be honest what we did against Liverpool and Chelsea didn''t work at all. Sometimes being a clean team works, but sometimes it doesn''t. At the moment i''d quite happily see a couple of suspensions in the next few weeks if it means we get stuck in a win a couple of games as a result of that.

[Syteanric 1]

is it me or is Walcott one of the most over rated players i have ever seen.If he didn''t have pace he wouldn''t be playing in the Premiership...

[Phillip J Fry 0]

Gingerpele: "Its a shame because I think it works for a team like ours, lots of pressure all over the pitch." 

Pressing against teams is just as dangerous as standing off. If you press you are trying to cause the man on the ball problems, force him into making a mistake, and hopefully reclaim possession yourself in an advanced position or get a throw in or something. Many teams view this as a good strategy. Graham Taylors Watford are a good example of a team that, despite lacking quality, was able to achieve good results and part of that was due to their aggressive pressing style which lead to many clean sheets and solid defensive records.

However, aggressive pressing has its problems. Watford found out about this when they played in Europe. During a two-legged tie against opposition that I can''t recall, their aggressive pressing style was found out, as the opponents were so good in possession that they just passed their way around the pressure leaving the Watford players tired and out of position. Watford were completely dominated throughout both legs and Taylor later admitted that he had expected something similar to this with such an aggressive pressing style (he also mentioned his long-ball tactics but that''s not relevant to this discussion).

Roy Hodgson, meanwhile, has always had his sides defend in a deep-sitting zonal system. Hodgsons sides don''t press energetically, they sit deep and put pressure on the player when he enters their zone, usually they only start pressing when halfway inside their own half, spending the rest of the time taking up clever positions to cut off passing angles so that the opponents attacks become predictable.

Arsenal are one of the best (THE best IMO) team in the premier league when it comes to composure and skill on the ball, if we press we face being like Watford, picked apart at will, Hughton wants us to defend zonally with discipline and a good offside trap, putting pressure on the man with the ball is secondary. Fans will just have to get used to it, because if Hughton does this right we may just become as disciplined as a Hodgson side, and they rarely get relegated 

[paul moy 235]

No, I''ll be amazed if we get in their faces. If we did we''d have a chance of a result but as it is I''m going for ''Arsenal playing the best football they''ve seen in years'', just as Liverpool, Chelsea and Fulham did. IMO it''s sadly just a case of predicting how many we lose by.

[hogesar 9,657]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Just to re-establish for people who are unable to read all the words in a post.

Walcott is a good player, but I think he can be very hit and miss, there are some people who think he is completely useless. And then there are some people like Bethanl who get very upset if someone says they don''t like Walcott. I''m sorry but i''m fairly sure he took what I said as meaning something much worse. I didn''t say Walcott is rubbish and never does anything, in fact by me saying half the time he doesn''t know what he''s doing (knowing full well he does score and set up a fair few) thats actually a compliment because he must be doing what he''s doing a hell of a lot to be able to mess up half the time...[/quote]So it took you 5 posts on the subject for you to still be wrong, and Bethnal to still be right. Congratulations.

[Lambo 0]

Can''t wait to see Cazorla play in the flesh again, IMO one of the best players in the division. Got to see him play whilst he was still at Villarreal and he was a class above anyone else on the pitch.

[dpit 1]

"Arsenal are one of the best (THE best IMO) team in the premier league when it comes to composure and skill on the ball, if we press we face being like Watford, picked apart at will, Hughton wants us to defend zonally with discipline and a good offside trap, putting pressure on the man with the ball is secondary. Fans will just have to get used to it, because if Hughton does this right we may just become as disciplined as a Hodgson side, and they rarely get relegated."

Abso-blinking-lutely. There has been far too much naive up and at em stuff posted here recently. Fact is Hughton''s system is still bedding in but I do believe it will work eventually, especially as we are still capable of hurting teams on the break. At the moment we''re in a transition period - let''s give it a bit of time folks.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Gareth"]Gingerpele: "Its a shame because I think it works for a team like ours, lots of pressure all over the pitch." 

Pressing against teams is just as dangerous as standing off. If you press you are trying to cause the man on the ball problems, force him into making a mistake, and hopefully reclaim possession yourself in an advanced position or get a throw in or something. Many teams view this as a good strategy. Graham Taylors Watford are a good example of a team that, despite lacking quality, was able to achieve good results and part of that was due to their aggressive pressing style which lead to many clean sheets and solid defensive records.

However, aggressive pressing has its problems. Watford found out about this when they played in Europe. During a two-legged tie against opposition that I can''t recall, their aggressive pressing style was found out, as the opponents were so good in possession that they just passed their way around the pressure leaving the Watford players tired and out of position. Watford were completely dominated throughout both legs and Taylor later admitted that he had expected something similar to this with such an aggressive pressing style (he also mentioned his long-ball tactics but that''s not relevant to this discussion).

Roy Hodgson, meanwhile, has always had his sides defend in a deep-sitting zonal system. Hodgsons sides don''t press energetically, they sit deep and put pressure on the player when he enters their zone, usually they only start pressing when halfway inside their own half, spending the rest of the time taking up clever positions to cut off passing angles so that the opponents attacks become predictable.

Arsenal are one of the best (THE best IMO) team in the premier league when it comes to composure and skill on the ball, if we press we face being like Watford, picked apart at will, Hughton wants us to defend zonally with discipline and a good offside trap, putting pressure on the man with the ball is secondary. Fans will just have to get used to it, because if Hughton does this right we may just become as disciplined as a Hodgson side, and they rarely get relegated 

[/quote]

That''s complete tosh, Gareth. Pressing allows less time on the ball for the opposition and thus also less time to pick passes and less space for the receiver to get the ball into. Allowing space only serves to get thrashed as has been proven in many of our games this season. Quoting one example of where perhaps it didn''t work goes against the 99% of times where it does work. Arsenal are renowned for crumbling under physical pressure so I just hope against hope that we get at them. 

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="dpit"]"Arsenal are one of the best (THE best IMO) team in the premier league when it comes to composure and skill on the ball, if we press we face being like Watford, picked apart at will, Hughton wants us to defend zonally with discipline and a good offside trap, putting pressure on the man with the ball is secondary. Fans will just have to get used to it, because if Hughton does this right we may just become as disciplined as a Hodgson side, and they rarely get relegated." Abso-blinking-lutely. There has been far too much naive up and at em stuff posted here recently. Fact is Hughton''s system is still bedding in but I do believe it will work eventually, especially as we are still capable of hurting teams on the break. At the moment we''re in a transition period - let''s give it a bit of time folks.[/quote]

I think you''re naive. How many defeats do we have to suffer before we get back to the basics of not allowing the opposition time to play their game.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Gareth"]Gingerpele: "Its a shame because I think it works for a team like ours, lots of pressure all over the pitch." 

Pressing against teams is just as dangerous as standing off. If you press you are trying to cause the man on the ball problems, force him into making a mistake, and hopefully reclaim possession yourself in an advanced position or get a throw in or something. Many teams view this as a good strategy. Graham Taylors Watford are a good example of a team that, despite lacking quality, was able to achieve good results and part of that was due to their aggressive pressing style which lead to many clean sheets and solid defensive records.

However, aggressive pressing has its problems. Watford found out about this when they played in Europe. During a two-legged tie against opposition that I can''t recall, their aggressive pressing style was found out, as the opponents were so good in possession that they just passed their way around the pressure leaving the Watford players tired and out of position. Watford were completely dominated throughout both legs and Taylor later admitted that he had expected something similar to this with such an aggressive pressing style (he also mentioned his long-ball tactics but that''s not relevant to this discussion).

Roy Hodgson, meanwhile, has always had his sides defend in a deep-sitting zonal system. Hodgsons sides don''t press energetically, they sit deep and put pressure on the player when he enters their zone, usually they only start pressing when halfway inside their own half, spending the rest of the time taking up clever positions to cut off passing angles so that the opponents attacks become predictable.

Arsenal are one of the best (THE best IMO) team in the premier league when it comes to composure and skill on the ball, if we press we face being like Watford, picked apart at will, Hughton wants us to defend zonally with discipline and a good offside trap, putting pressure on the man with the ball is secondary. Fans will just have to get used to it, because if Hughton does this right we may just become as disciplined as a Hodgson side, and they rarely get relegated 

[/quote]

That''s complete tosh, Gareth. Pressing allows less time on the ball for the opposition and thus also less time to pick passes and less space for the receiver to get the ball into. Allowing space only serves to get thrashed as has been proven in many of our games this season. Quoting one example of where perhaps it didn''t work goes against the 99% of times where it does work. Arsenal are renowned for crumbling under physical pressure so I just hope against hope that we get at them. 

[/quote]

I highlighted the strengths of an aggressive pressing game and even pointed out that many teams consider it a good strategy. I myself was never a fan of a high pressing game (my views on defence tend to favour zonal play and the offside trap) so my inherent bias probably slipped through to my explanation. To disregard the concept of sitting deep and absorbing pressure as ''complete tosh'' is, quite frankly, unfathomably stupid. Teams that are well coached in either method tend to be successful defensively and rarely does any team follow either theory zealously. I agree that pressing is necessary in any system but tend to favour a deep zonal approach when compared to the ''all over the pitch'' approach favoured by many. 

Sitting deep and cutting off angles can be just as successful as a  high pressing game (ask Mourinho who employed such a system at both Chelsea and Inter) and to disregard it entirely is tactically naive on your part 

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Gingerpele"]Just to re-establish for people who are unable to read all the words in a post.

Walcott is a good player, but I think he can be very hit and miss, there are some people who think he is completely useless. And then there are some people like Bethanl who get very upset if someone says they don''t like Walcott. I''m sorry but i''m fairly sure he took what I said as meaning something much worse. I didn''t say Walcott is rubbish and never does anything, in fact by me saying half the time he doesn''t know what he''s doing (knowing full well he does score and set up a fair few) thats actually a compliment because he must be doing what he''s doing a hell of a lot to be able to mess up half the time...[/quote]So it took you 5 posts on the subject for you to still be wrong, and Bethnal to still be right. Congratulations.[/quote]So you''ve decided (before reading GP''s explanation presumably) that he''s wrong and Bethnal is right.I happen to think is Walcott is over rated as well as do other posters.Well done for keeping up with the indie way of doing things [:|]

[paul moy 235]

When we don''t have possession we should with the odd exception all get behind the ball in order to endeavour to win it back, and that means pressing the opposition in order to quickly retrieve the ball, but once in possession we should get numbers forward to support the player with the ball and launch effective attack with the defence also moving up the pitch.  Sitting deep for long periods means that we are adopting a defensive strategy at the expense of attack and inviting the opposition to score by allowing them the initiative while reducing the opportunity for us to score. We are not San Marino and don''t need to do it. 

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]When we don''t have possession we should with the odd exception all get behind the ball in order to endeavour to win it back, and that means pressing the opposition in order to quickly retrieve the ball, but once in possession we should get numbers forward to support the player with the ball and launch effective attack with the defence also moving up the pitch.  Sitting deep for long periods means that we are adopting a defensive strategy at the expense of attack and inviting the opposition to score by allowing them the initiative while reducing the opportunity for us to score. We are not San Marino and don''t need to do it. [/quote]

Untrue, sitting deep and inviting pressure onto your team can cause the other team to push up as they try to break down a deep, well drilled defence. This leaves space behind the defence which a good team can exploit. Against Arsenal you''re not going to dominate possession and a quick, counter-attack remains your best bet of scoring a goal because the high line that Arsenal play (as well as their defenders) sometimes are susceptible to the ball being played into space behind them (if Mertesacker is playing then their line may sit deeper but remain vulnerable to runs in behind them). I think Hughton understands this and wants to mold Norwich into a well drilled, effective, counter attacking team that are comfortable (if not spectacular) in possession and we are seeing the side slowly progress to what he wants it to be (slowly being the key term).

Also, the San Marino jibe is unnecessary. San Marino came to Wembley and played with 10 men behind the ball. There was no attempt to counter-attack with speed or try and maintain possession (although to be fair, you can''t expect much when a team with only one professional in the squad come up against England). Plenty of good teams have defended deep and attacked mainly on the counter. One of them, Germany''s world cup squad 2010, still remain one of the most entertaining teams I have ever watched.