Ban all Leeds fans from future away games

[HowsonIsGod 0]

LAD

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Yellow Messiah"]The scum of the earth. Mindless yobs who find punching people "fun". Disgraceful scenes at Hillsborough, it''s not just one person, it''s the mentality of that vile club.[/quote]Nonsense. You cannot tar a whole club and its entire support because of one idiot.  Note the manager and supporter''s chairman both demanding jail time for the idiot who did this.--------------------------------

Warnock, who offered to calm both sets of fans down in the first

half as tensions rose, admitted he was "embarrassed" to be a manager.

"I thought it was an absolute disgrace. They should get the guy, prosecute him, put him in prison," he said.

"I''m not proud to be Leeds manager when I see that.

"I don''t mind the atmosphere, there''s been elbows

flying, but to see things like that on the field of play, I''m

embarrassed."

Leeds, who had 5,300 fans in the crowd of 28,582, released a statement after the game.

It read: "Leeds United would like to publicly apologise

and condemn the action of the fan who came on the pitch and attacked

Sheffield Wednesday goalkeeper Chris Kirkland.

"The club will fully co-operate with the police and the football authorities in identifying the individual concerned.

"After the week football has endured there is no place

for this type of behaviour and the majority of Leeds supporters will be

ashamed of his actions."

Ray Fell, chairman of the Leeds United Supporters'' Club, said he was "distressed" at what had happened.

"I sincerely hope the lad is found and sentenced," Fell told BBC Radio 5 live.

"A custodial sentence would be fitting. It is

distressing. The majority of the Leeds fans in the crowd did not approve

of the chanting and certainly not the lad who ran on the pitch."

[Dubai Mark 0]

The individual needs a serious punishment, perhaps a season ticket at Portman Road would do it.

But seriously, I am 100% on the side of Leeds suppporters being banned from away matches for a significant length of time, which is a real shame for those decent Leeds fans, but how else do you show you cant get away with it? Points deduction of the club is not going ti help at all in my view. 

 

[smooth 114]

Leeds, that sums up my view on Leeds fans.

If they had a ban it may be good but this coward needs to be made an example of

[Waveney Canary 0]

I would jut ban Leeds united full stop. Odious little club almost as bad as that lot st the other end of the a140

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Worse than Serbia? This was one fan. In Serbia is was racist chants followed by violence, including one of their coaches I believe. I fail to see how one fan being a co plate and utter tw@t is worse than a bunch of fans being racist and violent...[/quote]

 

Disagree GP, there were 30-40 egging him on, all on the pitch too.

 

I''d call them scum and vermin but that would be totally unfair on scum and vermin!

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,414]

The footage I saw doesn''t show anyone egging anybody on. It was the act of one mindless moron who given the very clear TV shots of his face and a distinguishing tattoo, should be nestling in police custody by lunch time today.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Wings of a Sparrow"]The footage I saw doesn''t show anyone egging anybody on. It was the act of one mindless moron who given the very clear TV shots of his face and a distinguishing tattoo, should be nestling in police custody by lunch time today.[/quote]

 

They were patting him on the back ffs, others were laughing!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46IUcwk4mYA

[Dubai Mark 0]

OK, I have now been thinking about this and have changed my mind over who should be punished, it should go like this ...

- Custodial sentence for the idiot who attacked the GK
- Community service in Manchester for all those fans seen encouraging him or supporting his actions
- An away ban for Leeds fans for at least three seasons
- A 15 points points deduction for Leeds as they have clearly not done enough to deter their fans from behaving like morons  
- A huge fine for Warcock....just because

On most of this I''m actually serious...

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Dubai Mark"]

OK, I have now been thinking about this and have changed my mind over who should be punished, it should go like this ...

- Custodial sentence for the idiot who attacked the GK
- Community service in Manchester for all those fans seen encouraging him or supporting his actions
- An away ban for Leeds fans for at least three seasons
- A 15 points points deduction for Leeds as they have clearly not done enough to deter their fans from behaving like morons  
- A huge fine for Warcock....just because

On most of this I''m actually serious...

 

[/quote]

 

Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah! [Y]

[nutty nigel 7,530]

Again I would just like to point out that amongst those fans in the away end were people like me, people like Dubai Mark, in fact people like all Norwich fans. If you start punishing them for the actions of others then before long you will find yourselves in the same boat. You people must be quite young or have short memories. I had been supporting Norwich for 20 years when we first qualified for Europe. You can''t imagine the excitement we felt and the plans we made. We qualified by winning a final at Wembley where the press reported the good behaviour of the fans as much as they reported the match itself. Months later we had it taken away for us due to the actions of thugs and hooligans who had travelled to a Liverpool match.

 

If someone goes thieving in Tescos should every shopper there be punished?

 

 

[S10 Canary 0]

He''s been named this morning and if you Google his name, you get this;

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/Football-fan-says-m-hooligan-ban-breach/story-13251413-detail/story.html

[morty 0]

[quote user="Rotherham Canary"]He''s been named this morning and if you Google his name, you get this;

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/Football-fan-says-m-hooligan-ban-breach/story-13251413-detail/story.html[/quote]His mobile number and address were posted on Twitter too lol.

[Gingerpele 0]

I suggest we lock Leeds and Serbia up together. Just move the whole of Leeds, and the whole of Serbia. Maybe build a giant cage in Russia somewhere? They have lots of space. And its cold.

[S10 Canary 0]

On some of the Wednesday forums they''ve posted a link to his Facebook page! Judging by some of the disgusting comments congratulating him, it''s more than just a few Leeds fans.

They should definitely look at banning them all from away games.

[Gingerpele 0]

Just for your info Rotherham Canary, his facebook page has been linked to on this forum, I think in this thread as well.

[S10 Canary 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Just for your info Rotherham Canary, his facebook page has been linked to on this forum, I think in this thread as well.[/quote]

Cheers. Blatant example of only skimming previous comments!

[Badger 2,405]

I can understand the good intentions of those that say we shouldn''t tar the reputation of a whole club because of the thuggish behaviour of a small minority. However, we have to take into account the club''s fans previous record and consider their cumulative record. After a while the picture begins to build up and it is clear that we are not talking about an isolated incident.

It is similar in many ways to our current government, who would like to dismiss embarrassing incidents as "one offs" but after a while the picture becomes clearer and clearer. In their case it ranges from one of their own MPs describing it as "government by arrogant posh boys;" then millionaire tax cuts; the police (and by inference ordinary people) are "plebs;" the great train snobbery etc. After a while a picture of an aristocratic millionaires clique thinking that there is one rule for us which of course, don''t apply to them don''t apply to them.

Similarly with Leeds United, I can understand the club trying to pretend that it is just an isolated incident and the the fault of just one fan - they apologised for the action of "THE fan." However, a closer look at the full picture reveals the truth. As has been pointed out by others, this incident was not one hothead but was generally supported by those around him - the happy smiling faces are clear to see. And of course, this is just one of a number of incidents. Most fans here will be aware that Leeds are one of the sides with "an unpleasant element" in their support. You have to search for about 10 seconds to find loads of videos of Lees fans involved in hooligans incidents in recent times and there are all sorts of other incidents including death threats on Rio Ferdinand; Manchester U @ Leeds in 2011 - two police officers injured and 21 arrests; Leeds vs Cardiff 2002 - Cardiff City fans, players, chairman Sam Hammam were hit by missiles during the match. In 2010-11, only Man United had more fans arrested.

I could go on but the point is clear: there is a persistent record of poor behaviour by Leeds fans - it is not an isolated incident by one fan. Should we tolerate it indefinitely or take action to ensure that the club works to remove this hooligan hardcore from their support?

As someone who can remember the atmosphere at away games in the 1970s and 1980s when there was a genuine unease at attending away games: apart form being unpleasant it created the perception amongst the chattering classes that allowed football fans to be treated like animals, which ultimately led to Hillsborough. We cannot afford to have this sort of event go unpunished. Football needs to sort itself out to prevent the sort of decline we have seen in the past. I am uncomfortable with "the unfairness" on behalf of the "good" Leeds fan, who are many, but the price of not dealing with this strongly is simply too high. For this reason severe action needs to be taken: it is in the interests of football fans in general and I would argue, in the long terms interests of the majority of Leeds fans as well.

[nutty nigel 7,530]

But Badger. Are these people "football''s thugs" or "thugs who go to football"?

 

 

[Badger 2,405]

NN - I understand your point but ultimately it does not make any difference in the policy response from Football authorities. Whichever they are, "these people" need to be removed from football - dealing harshly with the clubs is the most likely way to secure this end.

As I said, I am am uncomfortable with some of the implications of such action but the alternative (i.e. not acting) is far worse.

[nutty nigel 7,530]

[quote user=" Badger"]NN - I understand your point but ultimately it does not make any difference in the policy response from Football authorities. Whichever they are, "these people" need to be removed from football - dealing harshly with the clubs is the most likely way to secure this end. As I said, I am am uncomfortable with some of the implications of such action but the alternative (i.e. not acting) is far worse.[/quote]

 

Why is the alternative "not acting"

 

How many Leeds fans were at Hillsborough? And how many of them were guilty of anything?

 

The punishment must always be for the guilty and never for the innocent.

 

 

[Divs crew! 0]

I remember 1985 all to well and getting banned from europe because of a minority......it wasn''t fair or nice on anyone! so to tar all leeds fans with the same brush is ridiculous....south yorkshire police have got it wrong again as have the stewards by letting this thug leave the ground. this fan when  caught should be  punished...not just a slap on the wrist but prison for along term.There is no excuse for that kind of behaviour anywhere and i am so glad my sons and i dont see it at norwich.

[Badger 2,405]

If the action is against one or possibly a few fans it does not really address the issue, which is more widespread than this. However, to be honest, I agree with you in principal about due process, hence my discomfort.

I am salving my conscience with two thoughts:

1. The "innocent" will suffer far more if harsh action is not taken

2. The punishment would be against the club not the fans

If you were to accuse me of "specious argument," I would struggle to defend myself effectively, because of course, punishing the club would punish the fans. It might just about stand up to scrutiny, but I''m not certain that it would. In some respects is it similar to other policies, for example, the last government to enable the closure of nightclubs and where there were records of drug dealing and violence?

Liberalism vs utilitarianism?

[Badger 2,405]

Re 1985 ban

I take your point DV, and was I greatly angered by the ban. I suppose that you could argue that it was part of the process of football (nealry) putting its house in order.

[nutty nigel 7,530]

[quote user=" Badger"]Re 1985 ban I take your point DV, and was I greatly angered by the ban. I suppose that you could argue that it was part of the process of football (nealry) putting its house in order.[/quote]

 

I would never argue that buddy. In fact I would go as far as to argue that tarring all football with the same brush was a big factor in the events at Hillsborough four years later.

 

 

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

If someone goes thieving in Tescos should every shopper there be punished?

[/quote]

 

They are. Prices go up to counter any theft.

[nutty nigel 7,530]

[quote user="drurys testamonials mark 15"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

If someone goes thieving in Tescos should every shopper there be punished?

[/quote]

 

They are. Prices go up to counter any theft.

[/quote]

 

Just like the policing bill for football clubs goes on to the price of tickets. Tecos don''t put up the prices AND ban all the shoppers do they?

 

 

[Badger 2,405]

NN - "I would never argue that buddy. In fact I would go as far as to argue that tarring all football with the same brush was a big factor in the events at Hillsborough four years later."

To be honest, I can''t recall when the cages went up. If they only went up after 1985 you would be correct; my recollection was that it was before this - but it was a long time ago...

At some stage in the past, because of the behaviour of a minority of fans it became acceptable to treat us all like animals. The cages started to come down after Hillsborough but I can''t recall the chronology of when the hooliganism issue began to be tackled. I thought that it was between the ban and Hillsborough but if it wasn''t, I am wrong.

I am worried about the increasing anti-football feeling that seems to be gathering and the continuing hostility of a minority element of fans, although I couldn''t ever imagine a return to the cages.

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

What''s gone before?

 

How were similar Millwall fans cured of this type of behaviour?

[nutty nigel 7,530]

[quote user=" Badger"]NN - "I would never argue that buddy. In fact I would go as far as to argue that tarring all football with the same brush was a big factor in the events at Hillsborough four years later." To be honest, I can''t recall when the cages went up. If they only went up after 1985 you would be correct; my recollection was that it was before this - but it was a long time ago... At some stage in the past, because of the behaviour of a minority of fans it became acceptable to treat us all like animals. The cages started to come down after Hillsborough but I can''t recall the chronology of when the hooliganism issue began to be tackled. I thought that it was between the ban and Hillsborough but if it wasn''t, I am wrong. I am worried about the increasing anti-football feeling that seems to be gathering and the continuing hostility of a minority element of fans, although I couldn''t ever imagine a return to the cages.[/quote]

 

The fences were up long before. But IMO it was Thatcher waging war on football as a whole rather than thugs who went to football that tarred us all with the same brush. And it was that attitude that encouraged the mindset of the authorities in 1989 and also made it possible to engineer a cover up.