Pilkington

[Crabby 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]In another thread I said that some of his corners were poor but said nothing about his concentration. I thought he did ok on his runs though.   [/quote]

He`s a good player agreed

[Boyo 0]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Boyo"]

[quote user="York Canary"]Bennett was brilliant. Even my mate who supports Liverpool was confused when was taken off, especially against 10 men. He has the pace to cause problems and actually got in behind the full-back a few times and put the ball in low in the box. Unfortunately only Holty was usually in the box. Snodgrass on the other hand was generally quite poor. Poor delivery (one horrendous waste of a free-kick at the end) and when he did cut back in the box effectively he was just way too slow to shoot and got closed down. That could be down to being used as a sub only recently and not starting, but you''d expect him to be very fresh having just come on. It''s still early for him though and I wasn''t massively disappointed when he came on, but I thought Benno looked sharp on the wing and would start running the 10 men ragged. Ideally I''d have liked 3 at the back at the end with Garrido coming off (who didn''t get forward much imo) and Simeon making a front 3. Perfect situation for him to pick up loose balls and knock-downs from Moro and Holty and give their defence more of a headache with his pace.[/quote]

 

You must have been watching a different game to me.  Snodgrass (and Morrison) changed the game when he came on.  He made things happen and caused their left back far more problems than Bennett did in the entire game.  Ok his final ball wasn''t brilliant yesterday but how many of our players did put in a good cross apart from Wes for the goal?

 

I thought Snodgrass was quite unlucky to get dropped from the starting line up the other week because I think he has been one of our better players this season.  I like Bennett but I think Snodgrass edges it at the moment.

[/quote]

We started getting results once Snodgrass was dropped. Pace has been a glaring deficiency up until the last few games when we brought in Bennett and Pilks. Yes, Snodgrass did change the game, but into a one-dimensional high ball game which failed to garner 3 points. Jackson would have been a better option IMO with his less predictable running, and he can score.  

[/quote]

 

But also turned 0 points into 1.

 

I agree we lack pace and Snodgrass isn''t exactly quick but I think he is the type of player who can get away without being really fast, a bit like Wes.  If we played Pilkington and Snodgrass as our two wingers I wouldn''t particularly say we have slow wingers.  Where we really lack pace is with the full backs who can''t overlap very well because of their lack of pace but maybe Whittaker will change this down the right hand side.

[Boyo 0]

[quote user="York Canary"]

Bennett was brilliant. Even my mate who supports Liverpool was confused when was taken off, especially against 10 men. He has the pace to cause problems and actually got in behind the full-back a few times and put the ball in low in the box. Unfortunately only Holty was usually in the box. Snodgrass on the other hand was generally quite poor. Poor delivery (one horrendous waste of a free-kick at the end) and when he did cut back in the box effectively he was just way too slow to shoot and got closed down. That could be down to being used as a sub only recently and not starting, but you''d expect him to be very fresh having just come on. It''s still early for him though and I wasn''t massively disappointed when he came on, but I thought Benno looked sharp on the wing and would start running the 10 men ragged. Ideally I''d have liked 3 at the back at the end with Garrido coming off (who didn''t get forward much imo) and Simeon making a front 3. Perfect situation for him to pick up loose balls and knock-downs from Moro and Holty and give their defence more of a headache with his pace

You must have been watching a different game to me.  Snodgrass (and Morrison) changed the game when he came on.  He made things happen and caused their left back far more problems than Bennett did in the entire game.  Ok his final ball wasn''t brilliant yesterday but how many of our players did put in a good cross apart from Wes for the goal?

I thought Snodgrass was quite unlucky to get dropped from the starting line up the other week because I think he has been one of our better players this season.  I like Bennett but I think Snodgrass edges it at the moment.

I watched the same game, but he frustrated me so much and it stuck in my mind. It''s probably the horrendous waste of a free kick he delivered at the end and the times he cut back onto his left in the box and was too slow to get a shot off before being closed down. I though Benno worked simple one-twos with his pace more effectively, but as I said before I wasn''t distraught he was replaced because I know what Snoddy can do. I don''t think Pilks was that bad either, but admittedly didn''t do much of note compared to his normal game.

[/quote]

 

I can understand why you were fustrated by Snodgrass but would it have stuck in your mind the same way if Hoolahan and Holt didn''t miss those one on one''s or if we managed to convert some of the other chances we created towards the end?

[I am a Banana 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]I don''t care of Bennett is the best defensive winger ever, that''s not what a winger is for...[/quote]

So you would rather have 2 wingers who dont get back and defend at all (a huckerby like player) over a player who is still young and is very good helping defend and getting better at attacking too?

I bet 10000% Russell Martin loves it when Benno gets back to help defend. Especially when Villa had pace up front!!!

Our full backs aren''t good enough to handle most wingers in this league (Bale, Valencia, Etherington and Jarvis to name just 4) so by having our wingers help out is just as important as getting forward. Stopping a goal is equal to scoring one!

[Gingerpele 0]

Where did I say I don''t want him to help out at all?

I said I don''t want a defensive winger, not a winger who doesn''t help out defensively.

Ad no, he''s not improving in attack. He''s not different to how he was at this stage last season. He still rarely tries to beat his man.

And wingers are supposed to go past FBs, Bale can get past any FB and any FB & winger combo. Bennett could get past most if he tried. Ad him not trying is nothing to do with his defensive work which has nothing to do with this thread. This is about the attacking play from the two wingers, but you have to bring something else into it because you can''t bare anyone saying anything against Bennett, if we were talking about his overall game it would be a different discussion.

And Bennett helping out defensively has nothing to do with wether he is good at it or not, it''s down to how much the manager tells him to help out. You see how when Villa went down to 10 men, Pilks and Snoddy only went in our half about twice.

And if you really think a winger going back is just as important than going forward, then you must hate Dutch football, they pretty much invited the really attacking wingers...

[lake district canary 0]

Eliot Bennett and Pilkington have to show more initiative imo.   They both have potential and have a terrific shot in them.   Pilkington is one of those players though who does more than you think in linking play and rarely makes a mistake -but I agree that he needs to do more to get past his man. 

Bennett to me looks good but maybe doesn''t get past his man enough either.    I thought Leighton Baines was terrific for Everton yesterday and can see Bennett doing a similar job for Norwich as an attacking full back.  He has the pace and energy - and the defensive skills too.  That would leave space for Snodgrass  to come in.   Bennett has the pace to get up and down the pitch (he does that anyway) Snodgrass can''t do that and it would take the pressure off him to have someone on the right who has that kind of energy/pace.   Hard on Martin - but Snodgrass and Martin on the right does  not give us enough pace to counter-act opposing left sided attackers/midfielders.  

With Pilks and Benno, if they are going to be out and out wingers, have to start delivering more.    But like I said on another thread - it is largely down to confidence within the team, not just these two. 

[Gingerpele 0]

Pilks often gets past his man LDC...

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Pilks often gets past his man LDC...[/quote]

Then why don''t we see more crosses coming in from the left?   Garrido doesn''t get forward enough for me either.   He has a great cross in him.  With him and Pilks there we should see more from that area.

[Gingerpele 0]

How many crosses would you like?

He fades in and put of games.

He''s Pilkington, not Robben,

[ZLF 271]

we are too fixated on crosses - its about creative play and whether its a cross or better still an incisive pass our final ball was wanting yesterday.

 

What worries me is how often we have the ball wide with pilkington or bennett to look in the middle to see only wes as the target man - both pilks and bennett had to wait on sat while an option became available although bennet did try and find wes with a floated cross in the first half despite Wes having both centre halfs for company!! 

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]How many crosses would you like?

He fades in and put of games.

He''s Pilkington, not Robben,[/quote]

I would like to get the best out of the players, GP, that is all.  We all know what the players are capable of at their best, I simply want to see more of that, more often.     No need to compare with Robben or your mate Messi, or anyone else.   Its about what the players are capable of and getting the best out of them.  

[Vazzza 62]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Gingerpele"]Pilks often gets past his man LDC...[/quote]


Then why don''t we see more crosses coming in from the left?   Garrido doesn''t get forward enough for me either.   He has a great cross in him.  With him and Pilks there we should see more from that area.


[/quote]

This is why I liked Tierney so much last season, and still wouldn''t mind seeing him back in the first team. However I don''t think its Garrido''s fault he doesn''t get forward, seem to be a brief from Hughton to not let his full backs adventure quite as far forward as we''d like.

[Gingerpele 0]

Well LDC, you can''t get the best from every player.

I''m sure if we played a flat 4-4-2 Pilks and Bennett, and the FBs would get more corsses in. But the whole reason for playing Hoolahan, is to have him as the creative lynch pin. He gets the ball and he can play it down the left, right or through the middle.

And the comparison with Robben is fine, he and Ribery are Bayerns creative outlets, they get out wide and put the ball in the box for Gomez. Messi is not my mate, and is not a winger, thought we were discussing this, not having a pop at each other...

You don''t seem to be at all bothered with the game plan. If Hoolahan is playing, Pilkington won''t be getting the ball as much, it''s quite simple.

[Yellowfuture 71]

I think you may end up being a very dissapointed man LDC cos we are not going to get top level performances out of our players every week. You are unhappy with Wes and now Pilks. These guys play with knocks, their confidence goes up and down, they are up against top quality players every week and there is no way they will always play well. They are not amongs the very top Prem players and to do well are always having to play at their very best and that just aint going to happen every game.

[lake district canary 0]

Now you see this is where I don''t get it.    I''m not having a pop either GP (you do keep mentioning messi though - you know you do [;)] ).

Its like all of a sudden people are limiting what we should expect from our players.   The positive side in me is saying, yes, we are improving, but the name of the game is to keep improving, get the players playing at the top of their game, more of the time.

Its what great managers do.  Get the best out of their players.    Its Hughton''s job to do that.   I''ve criticised several players in recent weeks.  It means I want them to improve, not that I think they are rubbish.     Its about higher standards.   Not accepting  - oh yes he''s Hoolahan not Messi, or he''s Pilkington not Robben or whatever.   You push the players on to improve still further.  

We were not great against Villa.  Some good play but some mediocre play too.   The players we have have a really good potential and if Hughton can get the best out of them we will have an improved season even from last year.   But we are not there yet - the overall standard of play can be improved. I will be disappointed if the players don''t improve from Saturday''s performance.   A win against Arsenal doesn''t make a season.   Its made a few people sit up and take notice, but there is a heck of a lot work to do to improve the performance of the team on Saturdays'' showing .

 

[sparky77 0]

What game are you watching,

Strikers were the only ones able to cross the ball into the box,

The wingers need to start acting like wingers, and that means successfully crossed the ball to a striker.

What are your statistics for conversion rates wingers crossing the ball. mine didn''t see any.

They need to spend a lot more work on the passing of the ball,