Hoolahan

[King Klose 0]

Yes, Wes does ''frustrate'' some people, the sort of people that don''t quite understand what is happening in front of them on the pitch.

He is a class act, everything good we do goes through him.

[lake district canary 0]

I have already said he is our most skilful player and looks good on the ball.    But you cannot argue that he can be frustrating to watch too.   

People who reply "nonsense" to the view that he has his head down just trying to keep the ball under control at times are not being objective.   At his best Hoolahan is very good, but at his worst spends a lot of time  just trying to keep the ball under control and doesn''t deliver a pass and then gets crowded out.    Yesterday was one of his better days but still had those moments where in the process of keeping the ball he got crowded out and ended up losing the ball in good positions.     

Thats why Lambert left him out a fair amount last season.    If we are to improve as a team the decision making has to improve - and being critical - not negative -  the not giving away of the ball cheaply has to be improved.    Hoolahan is guilty of this as well as other players.   

My particular feelings of disappointment on watching Hoolahan are based on the fact that a player of his ability - and experience - should be more aware of when to just move the ball on and not get crowded out.    It does not mean I think he is rubbish or shouldn''t be in the team. 

I''ll go as far as to say he was excellent yesterday - but left me with a feeling of disappointment (his finishing could be better too).    I think he can still improve - as can the rest of the team with set pieces etc.     I am not looking for negatives, I am trying to see where we can improve - individually and collectively. 

Actually, on the bright side, we came away from a difficult match - for all sorts of reasons - with a point, so that is great.   But the improvements we need to make were glaringly obvious.    Villa were little threat in the end but  we didn''t finish them off like we should have.

[Six Pack 91]

I think you''re putting too much on to the shoulders of one player LDC. For most of the match he had the opposition ripped to pieces however he needed support to get the final ball into the penalty area. Although the rest of the team managed to retain possession well, they were clueless when it came to help create chances against a depleted opposition. It was all down to Hoolahan to do it all ! Not sure why E Bennett was taken off for Snodgrass - it should have been Ryan Bennett coming off with Elliott moving to right back. It was a crucial decision because down the right was where the game should have been won - Hoolahan ran them ragged & it only needed the "extra" player to deliver a decent ball. Crossing from the fullbacks with very poor. Tierney may need to be introduce if this keeps up - we are throwing away points. My conclusion from what I have seen of the season so far - Hoolahan needs to play in most of the matches if we have any chance of survival.

It''s scary stuff - he is the only one that looks capable of opening up these defences.Our Premiership survival is at the moment down to one player we acquired for 200,000 plus Gilks. - now there''s one for you !

[Joanna Grey 0]

If only he didn''t give the ball away.

If only Holt had more pace.

If only Johnson could keep a shot on target.

If only Jackson was taller.

If, if, if....

[Yellowfuture 71]

You obviously live in Cumbria now but how many games do you actually get to see LDC? Wes has been doing well since starting behind Holty and watching highlights or even a whole game on the telly does not really give a true impression of his work rate. Particularly last week against Arsenal. I saw the game then watched it again on sky and the television coverage did not give anything like a fair reflection of how we had played. A key to our victory last week was how the whole team, Wes in particular worked off the ball and that just didn`t come across on TV. Not having a dig at you but what you see on the telly doesn`t always reflect what actually happens.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="thefutureisyellow"]You obviously live in Cumbria now but how many games do you actually get to see LDC? Wes has been doing well since starting behind Holty and watching highlights or even a whole game on the telly does not really give a true impression of his work rate. Particularly last week against Arsenal. I saw the game then watched it again on sky and the television coverage did not give anything like a fair reflection of how we had played. A key to our victory last week was how the whole team, Wes in particular worked off the ball and that just didn`t come across on TV. Not having a dig at you but what you see on the telly doesn`t always reflect what actually happens.[/quote]

Oh dear, here we go again.......for the record I''ve been to four so far  (wh, qpr, liverpool and newcastle).    I was visiting relatives in hospital for the Arsenal match so missed a great match by all accounts - thats'' going to bug me all season - but that''s another story.   On average I''ll get to about a third of the matches and watch the rest live online.     Its all about opinions whether you go to a match or just see it on line.  I agree seeing highlights doesn''t give you a full picture.   Maybe if I''d seen the whole of the Arsenal match I would be a bit kinder about yesterday - but in a way the Arsenal match is irrelevant - yesterday was a different match and has to be taken on its own merits.   

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="Mister Chops"]but he is as much of a liability as an asset, I''m afraid.[/quote]Completely disagree.  Our best player and has been for the last three years.  I don''t think it''s a coincidence that our performances are usually better when he is in the side.  And we usually hang on to the ball better as well - true, he does give it away but he is always looking to get on the ball and he gets possession so much he''s bound to make the odd mistake.  And it never deters him from wanting the ball again for another go - I have rarely seen his head drop when things don''t go his way.[/quote]I was thinking about this on my long run this morning.I came to the conclusion that Wes Hoolahan, more than any other player, sums up my relationship with Norwich City Football Club itself.When something looks difficult, he often surprises me by making it look easy, and when something looks easy, he often surprises me by making a hash of it.Basically - and it''s not a very poetic summary - I love him to bits, but he does my head in.

[city4eva 207]

[quote user="Give Peas a Chance "]I''d have given MOTM to Brad Guzan for denying Norwich all afternoon I also think Grant Holt would have something to say about who the best player has been in the last three seasons, not to mention the Player of the season voters. Hoolahan is good but not nearly as good as people make out.[/quote]

 

Spot On

[Jacko 0]

You saw the best and the worst of him at times today. He was incredibly busy, popping up everywhere, created the goal with a lovely delivery and worked tirelessly. He is fantastic at holding the ball up for us as well. I know it is not something you normally associate with someone who is 5 ft 6 but he is able to trick his way out of tight situations and retain possession providing a link between defence and attack. That is absolutely priceless for us.

The infuriating parts of his game are that he doesn''t get enough goals from open play for a player with his ability. He will be very disappointed with that chance he missed in the first half. Sometimes he also squanders possession too easily putting us on the back foot. Which I thought he did on a couple of occasions in the match yesterday.

But I will accept those flaws because the man is absolute magician and he has a really big heart as well. I always think we look busier and far more likely to create with him in the side. He seems to bring the best out of Grant Holt too. When Wesley doesn''t start Cambridge Yellow is always worried.

[ZLF 271]

There is am uncomfortable whiff of hypocrisy from am op who becomes rather defensively aggressive when some players have been criticized in previous games with the carrion cry of get behind the team

Here we have first where the debated motm but almost unanimous city man of the match is being criticised?!?

Interestingly the only other negative post from this poster came for garrido after another cliche performance from Holt. Any coincidence???

Try celebrating a second successive excellent creative performance instead of criticising.

How about celebrating a second excellent performance

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]There is am uncomfortable whiff of hypocrisy from am op who becomes rather defensively aggressive when some players have been criticized in previous games with the carrion cry of get behind the team

Here we have first where the debated motm but almost unanimous city man of the match is being criticised?!?

Interestingly the only other negative post from this poster came for garrido after another cliche performance from Holt. Any coincidence???

Try celebrating a second successive excellent creative performance instead of criticising.

How about celebrating a second excellent performance[/quote]

You''re having a laugh, aren''t you?    I have never said it was wrong to criticise players and have done it myself on several occasions.    My objections are usually against those who over react to things that happen on or off the pitch and I simply like to try to restore a sense of balance to the debate.

Why Holt comes in to it I don''t know, to be critical, he should have done better when through on goal.

Criticism and debate is healthy - over reaction and unwarranted abuse of players/managers is not.   Bad passing/losing possession cheaply is one of the tings the team has to sort out whether its Garrido, Hoolahan or anyone else.     I am all for getting behind the team, but they are not beyond criticism.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Lake district canary: I have already said he is our most skilful player and looks good on the ball.    But you cannot argue that he can be frustrating to watch too.

Because everything he tries does not come off? Because his forward passes don''t always meet their target?

Because he doesn''t finish like Pele?

He is not Messi, he is Wes Hoolahan. And it is a privilege to have a player at the club not afraid to face the opposition with the ball at his feet, to risk those very difficult forward passes and be willing to take on a man. A true creative player who can change a game.

And if he was a better finisher, giving the ball away less often, I don''t think he would be here now anyway.

[smooth 114]

I have been very critical of hoolahan in the past and I would say he is a luxury who at this level last year was not producing the goods, however in the last two games, I have been highly impressed.

I agree with the post regarding the''if''s'' as with Lansbury he had both a right and left foot, hoolahoops will now be noticed by all opposing teams hence we need those wide men to step up and actually be a threat in the final third, there tracking back and coverage is good. But we need a threat Snodgrass does have a better range of delivery, pilky does too but ghosts in and out of the game, eb has had pretty woeful distribution unless he gets to the byline and plays the ball back.

Hoolahoops has played very well and it does mean to play him in this position we need midfielders who can allow him to do that, enter tettey. The rest of the midfield hasn''t changed from last year and it never worked with hoops behind the loan striker.

But we do need goals from hoops and those widemen.

[judderman 0]

I thought he was immense yesterday, the best player on the pitch by some distance. Apart from that silly pass he made.

The thing is, we have a lot of players who lose the ball a fair bit: Johnson, Garrido (loads yesterday), Pilkington (lost it loads yesterday), etc. Hoolahan looses it once or twice and it''s as if he''s let us all down.

I would go as far as to say I saw the best touch I''ve ever seen from any player live yesterday from him, when high hoof came his way and his first touch before it bounced was a backheel straight into the run of snodgrass. Incredible.

Also, won aerial challenges when surrounded by 2 Villa players through pure fight, and bust a gut once or twice to get into superb positons (once straight after that backheel) only to be ignored. Twice the ball did come and he was foiled by good saves. Everything went through him, without him in the pitch...we probably would have lost.

Let''s look at the chances we created - 2 were his good runs that people managed to find the pass for, and he forced 2 big saves from Guzan. The 1 on 1 from Holt, created by Hoolahan. The Snodgrass put through, by Hoolahan. The Goal, Hoolahan cross, following very quick thinking by getting across for the corner.

Add to that the amount of times Hoolahan was the first port of call playing it out of defence. Without Fox in the team, more often than not it was Hoolahan who would drop back and collect. He''s not always brilliant, but he was absolutely crucial yesterday.

[Chrisr 0]

Surely the reason why Wes seems to give the ball away more than everyone else is that he happens to have the ball more than everyone else.Always looking for it, always searching for a way to unlock a defence. Often it doesn''t come off and yes, he tries to take one too many men on (yesterday in the second half was a classic example) but he is the one player we have that can create an opening from nothing. He gave Arsenal''s many million pound midfield the runaround last week for goodness sake. You can''t just be functional at this level and win games. Much as he may frustrate, we need Wes on the pitch whenever possible.

[Yellowfuture 71]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]You obviously live in Cumbria now but how many games do you actually get to see LDC? Wes has been doing well since starting behind Holty and watching highlights or even a whole game on the telly does not really give a true impression of his work rate. Particularly last week against Arsenal. I saw the game then watched it again on sky and the television coverage did not give anything like a fair reflection of how we had played. A key to our victory last week was how the whole team, Wes in particular worked off the ball and that just didn`t come across on TV. Not having a dig at you but what you see on the telly doesn`t always reflect what actually happens.[/quote]

Oh dear, here we go again.......for the record I''ve been to four so far  (wh, qpr, liverpool and newcastle).    I was visiting relatives in hospital for the Arsenal match so missed a great match by all accounts - thats'' going to bug me all season - but that''s another story.   On average I''ll get to about a third of the matches and watch the rest live online.     Its all about opinions whether you go to a match or just see it on line.  I agree seeing highlights doesn''t give you a full picture.   Maybe if I''d seen the whole of the Arsenal match I would be a bit kinder about yesterday - but in a way the Arsenal match is irrelevant - yesterday was a different match and has to be taken on its own merits.   

[/quote]

Fair enough, I was just wondering if you had seen him much live this season. I suppose I was thrown by you cos you are always so positive and immediately react against any negative posts, yet seem to be changing your angle by critisising a player who is doing really well for us atm.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Give Peas a Chance "]I''d have given MOTM to Brad Guzan for denying Norwich all afternoon . [/quote]

Guzan for MOTM ahead of Hoolahan? Nah, not for me. No at all.

Guzan denied us 3 or 4 times but generally our finishing gave him a chance to make the saves. Both times he saved from Hoolahan it was close to his body. When Holt went through he seemed like he intended to slot it through Guzan''s legs but missed the gap and played it against his leg instead.

Not saying Guzan didn''t have a good game but for how much of the ball Hoolahan had, the way he dictated play, the problems he caused Villa throughout and his extremely high work rate I don''t think Guzan deserves MOTM ahead of him.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="smooth"]hoolahoops.......pilky.......[/quote]I take it from those names you''re not very old. I think if you ask your grandad he will tell you that Wes is right up there with Jimmy Hill and Tommy Bryceland, both City legends. Long after Wes has gone, people will look back and realise what a little gem we had and how important he was in our rise from the ashes.Enjoy him while we''ve still got him.

[Highland Canary 76]

Our most creative player - the team is better with him in - yes, he does give the ball away which is annoying, but if he was the complete player he''d be playing for a top team not us. So, yes, enjoy Hooly while we can.

 

 

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Its simply amazing how Hoolahan divides opinion on here. Is it not obvious how much better we are with him in the team? He brings the best out of players like Holt and Bennett who love to link up with him, and he makes life easier for Tettey and BJ by being constantly available for a simple pass thus alleviating pressure. Yes he may give the ball away somtimes but seriously how people can question his importance to us is quite incredible.

Look at our form over the last 3 years, and then look who''s been ever present in the squad. Its absolutely no coincidence. Wes is a brilliant player and one I love to watch.  So just accept that while the odd time he may frustrate, on the whole he is pure quality who greatly improves our chances of three points. I really hope he carries on his form and is offered a new deal similar to Holt, because he''s just as important.

[ROBFLECK 132]

I agree Lincoln, Holt is used to playing with him and the other midfield players around him benefit from his skill more than they "suffer" from his lapses... He has to play imo!

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]

Our most creative player - the team is better with him in - yes, he does give the ball away which is annoying, but if he was the complete player he''d be playing for a top team not us. So, yes, enjoy Hooly while we can.

[/quote]

I don''t buy that one.  Imo players should improve and learn from their mistakes.   Hoolahan is nearly 30 and should have learned by now when to try and keep the ball and when to move it on.    I started this thread - not rubbishing Hoolahan, by the way - simply with the thought in mind that he still needs to learn.      No player is immune from criticism and with better composure from the whole team we would have won yesterday - including Hoolahan - most creative player or not. 

[ZLF 271]

Wes - started 4 games,  citys MOTM or a close second in everyone, and even close to MOTM in some of his sub appearances.    No other player has been that influential for us this season. 4 pages of discussion questionning the performance of our best player over the last two games while ignoring the 13 other players who have not played as well shows just how wierd this forum is.

 

All players continue to improve and yes he made mistakes - and strong performances against Newcastle, Chelsea Arsenal and Villa suggest he is nearing his peak in the worlds most competetive league.

 

 

[Vazzza 62]

[The gut 0]

LDC - so what makes you think Wes hasn''t been learning. 3 seasons ago he was playing in the 3rd division. I think he is a far better player now, far better than when he joined us. I think his work rate, tackling, sharpness, and for me, without a doubt, his decision making has improved season on season.

He may not be perfect but would be on my team sheet along with Holt and Bassong before I started adding the other names.

I think he has always suffered from a lack of appreciation by our fans, who barely sing his name from one game to the next. Personally I don''t get it, how so many don''t seem to see the influence he has on our performances.

Additionally he takes the blame when some of the quick free kicks don''t pay off, for me, it''s others not being as switched on or aware. Yes he gets some wrong but so have our previous heros.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="The gut"]LDC - so what makes you think Wes hasn''t been learning. 3 seasons ago he was playing in the 3rd division. I think he is a far better player now, far better than when he joined us. I think his work rate, tackling, sharpness, and for me, without a doubt, his decision making has improved season on season. He may not be perfect but would be on my team sheet along with Holt and Bassong before I started adding the other names. I think he has always suffered from a lack of appreciation by our fans, who barely sing his name from one game to the next. Personally I don''t get it, how so many don''t seem to see the influence he has on our performances. Additionally he takes the blame when some of the quick free kicks don''t pay off, for me, it''s others not being as switched on or aware. Yes he gets some wrong but so have our previous heros.[/quote]

 

 

100% Agree with everything here.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Wes - started 4 games,  citys MOTM or a close second in everyone, and even close to MOTM in some of his sub appearances.    No other player has been that influential for us this season. 4 pages of discussion questionning the performance of our best player over the last two games while ignoring the 13 other players who have not played as well shows just how wierd this forum is.

 

All players continue to improve and yes he made mistakes - and strong performances against Newcastle, Chelsea Arsenal and Villa suggest he is nearing his peak in the worlds most competetive league.

 

 

[/quote]

 

 

 Again completely agree with this. It''s mental how there''s even a discussion about it! I somtimes think we don''t deserve to have Wes. There are very few players like him, and I certainly cannot think of another similar player to have played for Norwich. Support him, sing his name, and enjoy watching him!

[Gingerpele 0]

Just something to think about.

How many people moaned about Hucks when he wasted chance after chance?

Not many. That''s because he was exiting, scored goals and created, but he still lost the ball a lot, hit shots wide, put in a poor ball.

Hoolahan gets some unfair criticism on here, I''m sure some people probably praise him too highly as well. But he creates, he keeps the ball, he doesn''t give it away half as much as some would have you believe. I still think some people expect him to produce the same amount as he did in League One. The fact that two managers have played him as the main creative outlet in two different seasons in the top league should say enough for everyone to at least let him get on with it.

[Nicko 0]

Yeah I agree with the opening post. I don''t often agree with changing a team that is performing and on the cusp of clicking but I think Hoolahan thrives in game thats technical. Stoke are basically a rugby team so I think changing him for a more physical player i.e butterfield or snodgrass would pay dividends. Could also be a game for jackson as I think Huth and Shawcross arent the quickest making it a necessity to get in behind them and causing some problems!

I dont think changing hoolahan for morison would be the best idea as Hutt and Shawcross will have the beating of our front pair all day. We need something different for this fixture and I think Butterfield/snodgrass and Jackson are it!

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="smooth"]hoolahoops.......

pilky.......[/quote]

I take it from those names you''re not very . Long afteold. I think if you ask your grandad he will tell you that Wes is right up there with Jimmy Hill and Tommy Bryceland, both City legendsr Wes has gone, people will look back and realise what a little gem we had and how important he was in our rise from the ashes.

Enjoy him while we''ve still got him.
[/quote]

 

The hell he is Lapps, those two rarely lost the ball like Wes does!