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ABC (A Basingstoke Canary)

How to win a penalty

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How naive we must be for not knowing "the rules" of getting a penalty!

 

Apparently, if you "THINK" you get a clip in the penalty area - you go down

 

Apparently, if you "FELT YOU WERE TOUCHED" then you go down

 

So speaketh England International and PFA young player of the year - Kyle Walker

 

Extracts from Sky Sports:

"I thought I got a clip so I went down. It was a foul. The referee has awarded a penalty, or the linesman did. They were close enough to see it."

"If I felt I was touched then I am going to go down. That''s it."

 

What a fine example of sportsmanship - not!

 

Really pleased that Chris Hughton highlighted this distasteful practice

 

And, irrespective of whether Mark Clattenburg actually got it right or not, the fact that he did 2nd yellow card Torres (resulting in his sending off ), it will hopefully make the "Tom Daley impersonators" think twice before they perform their swallow dives!

 

As for his reason as to why he disputed Chris Hughton''s accusation - "I''m from up north. I''m not going to go down softly," - is, by implication, insinuating that all Southerners are "softies" - should make him popular with the people living around WHL.

 

What happened to the "men" who used to play the beautiful game?

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I saw no contact on Walker and feel very strongly about diving. I''ve played football (at a poor level lol) for going on 11 years and I am proud to say that I''ve never made the most of a tackle.

I think that a panel should be made by the FA to review situations in games when an accusation of diving has been made. If the player is guilty then he should be banned for 3 games.

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I don''t like this sort of thing any more than you do.  My own personal dislike is players who knock the ball away from the goal and then go down under minimal contact.

BUT I guarantee that Holt, Hoolahan, Pilkington et al would have done exactly the same in that situation.  Unless the refs stop awarding the penalties then it''s only going to continue and if you can''t beat them you have to join them

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You could tell by Walkers immediate reaction that it wasn''t a penalty, even before the replays kicked in. The ref didn''t have the nous to take that into consideration.

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What constitutes a foul in football then? Is being clipped but not enough to cuase you to fall a foul?I think a 1 or 2 match ban would be fairer but definately an instant red.This is where video reffing needs to be brought in.

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The problem is that it is a long time since I saw a referee give a penalty for somebody who didn''t fall over!

Stop the divers yes, but how many times have you heard people say, and even said it yourself, ''He should have gone down''!

Perhaps the law should simply be ''anyone who falls over too easily'' whether he is fouled or not should be cautioned! And get the referees to give penalties if players are fouled (shirts pulled and held in the box, players wrestling players in the box, pushing in the box) because they don''t at the moment!

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I''ve seen pens given for shirt pulls and the player''s stayed on his feet but I get what you mean.

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]The problem is that it is a long time since I saw a referee give a penalty for somebody who didn''t fall over! Stop the divers yes, but how many times have you heard people say, and even said it yourself, ''He should have gone down''! Perhaps the law should simply be ''anyone who falls over too easily'' whether he is fouled or not should be cautioned! And get the referees to give penalties if players are fouled (shirts pulled and held in the box, players wrestling players in the box, pushing in the box) because they don''t at the moment![/quote]

 

This is very true - you will almost never win a penalty unless you hit the deck. The tackle Tierney made was illegal, he caught Walker and stopped him from being able to play the ball - it probably wasn''t hard enough to send Walker over, but Tierney still gained an advantage without playing the actual ball. For me that is a penalty.

 

Was very disappointed with Tierney''s performance overall - he displayed all his worse qualities; inability to control a ball, poor positioning and lunging into to stupid tackles. There was no need to make a challenge on Walker at all as he wasn''t going to be able to send in a dangerous cross from that position - jumping in like he did was the worst possible decision.

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Thats how I saw Tierneys performance and the pen in particular Bethnal.

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Me too. I thought Tierney was pretty poor and I thought it was a penalty. Tierney is robust and all action but is severely lacking in terms of quality, finesse and retention of possession in comparison to Garrido.

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Cheating has become an almost acceptable part of the game, "I thought I felt a touch so I went down" being the perfect example. We have to accept it and if you are not able to embrace this worthy concept in the same way you will be left far behind. We see it in so many other areas of the game. Time wasting is something that the authorities have never got to grips with. How many times do we see six substitutions in the second half, a couple of stops for injuries and goals scored (often it takes more than a minute to restart the game after the team scoring the goal have managed to wander back to their own half) followed by the inevitable board informing of 3 minutes added time (unless it is Man U, Chelsea or Arsenal losing, of course) ? I would like to see added time properly recorded and strictly enforced. I would also like to see a rule brought in that no substitutions are allowed after, say, 85 minutes. Making substitutions with less than a minute to go is blatant gamesmanship and, in my opinion, an insult to supporters. It is called "running down the clock" and "killing the game". I have thought for sometime that the 4th official is under-employed and should be the official timekeeper. I now know that this is probably not the case. It seems that he is feeding information to the referee having watched replays of incidents on a monitor. I was under the impression that this wasn''t allowed.

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There seems to be this accepted idea that if your touched and go down its not a dive. This irritates the hell out of me. Football is a contact sport, which means contact is expected and allowed. You can still have contact and dive, ala Fernanando Torres. It doesn''t help when pundits analyse a situation and come out with "ah but there was slight contact made"........ so what slight contact, if someone gives you slight contact in a bar do you fall over there? No.

Its time this diving epidemic is put to bed. Hopfully the decison to send Torres off will be the first of many untill players eradicate the idea from their heads. It''s absolutely embarrassing and spoiling the game. When did winning a peno beocme more attractive then the chance to score yourself?


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[quote user="lincoln canary"]

There seems to be this accepted idea that if your touched and go down its not a dive. This irritates the hell out of me. Football is a contact sport, which means contact is expected and allowed. You can still have contact and dive, ala Fernanando Torres. It doesn''t help when pundits analyse a situation and come out with "ah but there was slight contact made"........ so what slight contact, if someone gives you slight contact in a bar do you fall over there? No.Its time this diving epidemic is put to bed. Hopfully the decison to send Torres off will be the first of many untill players eradicate the idea from their heads. It''s absolutely embarrassing and spoiling the game. When did winning a peno beocme more attractive then the chance to score yourself?


[/quote]

Don''t often agree with you Lincoln but I reckon you''re spot on there.   It is spoiling the game for a lot of people.   The pundits are just useless when it comes to this sort of thing - often siding with the player - mainly because they were players themselves.   Seeing grown men fall over like they do in football is an embarrassment to the sport.   Even if our own players do it I cringe.   Fair enough if you''re shirt is being tugged or you are genuinely caught - but  Walker''s fall was just - well - embarrassing - but referees fall for it a lot of the time.

I can''t think of many instances in other sports where  cheating that is blatant and easily seen - is so easy to get away with.  As usual the authorities won''t do what they need to do.   In almost every fault in the sport of football there is an easy solution, whether its the hounding of refs by players, cheating, goal line technology (I know, that is probably going to happen - 20 years late)  time wasting or whatever.    The governing bodies just don''t do anything - they are spineless.  

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I think the most pathetic comment made recently was by Alan Shearer on MOTD when he said "... but you couldn''t give a penalty for that or you would be giving a dozen every game".

No Mr. Shearer, if the referees had the balls to give penalties for the obvious fouls in the box, during the taking of corners and free kicks, then players would soon change their ways but as long as they can get away with it we will continue to see shirts pulled, players held and fouls go unpunished which would be given anywhere else on the pitch.

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I saw it on a stream and they showed 2 or 3 replays. It was a terrible, reckless challenge and it did look like there was some contact. Tierney''s still at fault and its still a penalty imo because he was nowhere near the ball and made contact with the player.

Others have made the point it''s almost expected nowadays if you get contact to go down. The main problem for me is, players don''t seem to think they will get fouls/penalty decisions if they try and stay on their feet. Their needs to be a positive change where play is allowed to carry on but then stopped and brought back if there''s no advantage. This just doesn''t happen enough in football imo, and therefore players wont try and carry on if fouled they will just drop and take the foul.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="lincoln canary"]

There seems to be this accepted idea that if your touched and go down its not a dive. This irritates the hell out of me. Football is a contact sport, which means contact is expected and allowed. You can still have contact and dive, ala Fernanando Torres. It doesn''t help when pundits analyse a situation and come out with "ah but there was slight contact made"........ so what slight contact, if someone gives you slight contact in a bar do you fall over there? No.Its time this diving epidemic is put to bed. Hopfully the decison to send Torres off will be the first of many untill players eradicate the idea from their heads. It''s absolutely embarrassing and spoiling the game. When did winning a peno beocme more attractive then the chance to score yourself?


[/quote]

Don''t often agree with you Lincoln but I reckon you''re spot on there.   It is spoiling the game for a lot of people.   The pundits are just useless when it comes to this sort of thing - often siding with the player - mainly because they were players themselves.   Seeing grown men fall over like they do in football is an embarrassment to the sport.   Even if our own players do it I cringe.   Fair enough if you''re shirt is being tugged or you are genuinely caught - but  Walker''s fall was just - well - embarrassing - but referees fall for it a lot of the time.

I can''t think of many instances in other sports where  cheating that is blatant and easily seen - is so easy to get away with.  As usual the authorities won''t do what they need to do.   In almost every fault in the sport of football there is an easy solution, whether its the hounding of refs by players, cheating, goal line technology (I know, that is probably going to happen - 20 years late)  time wasting or whatever.    The governing bodies just don''t do anything - they are spineless.  

[/quote]

Too right Gents, it is obvious to all except the ones who have  the most ''influence'' i.e the players and hierarchy.

Walker talks about ''well the ref or the lino gave it'' thereby deflecting any (in his eyes) criticism towards himself. The point is, you Northern person, is that they have been conned by YOU.

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The prem league / fa are just sops to the big clubs and narrow minded ex footballer commentators

 

It was like the respect campaign,  it must have been 10 years ago when the refs started booking players for the abuse refs get,  but after 8-10 games the number of dissent dismissals was deemed to be "ruining the game" (strongly led by an affected SAF) so rather than players moderating their language and behaviour the authorities decided to back down from the tough line.   Typical and toothless

 

If they feel the rules are not clear enough - change them but I think they are there to be enforced if they had the cajones to do so.

 

Cheating is endemic (and its spread to off the field activities too, chelsea a fine example who allegedly feel laws and rules are inconveniences to be swerved around instead of diving over) purely because its not creacked down on.   Time for a serious nawty step  

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Hi Bethnal

 

My point is not whether Tierney was guilty of fouling Walker, but Walker''s initial responses:

 

"I thought I got a clip so I went down. It was a foul. The referee has awarded a penalty, or the linesman did. They were close enough to see it."

"If I felt I was touched then I am going to go down. That''s it."

 

This is symptomatic of something most supporters find distasteful and what worries me his comments were so emphatic - almost as if part of the coaching regime is saying to the players "If you FEEL you were touched, then go down. That''s it - no ifs, no buts! (and woe betide any player who doesn''t!)

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You are right ABC,  however without the unneeded challenge from tierney (walker was running out of pitch going nowhere) there would be no falling over.  It was a poor decision from Tierney,  poor executed which allowed the penalty to happen irrepespective of how distasteful it was.

 

However until we criticise our own wes, holt, pilkington, bennett (just last weekend for making the most?) etc for doing the self same thing (and they are just as guilty, and I do criticise) its difficult to to swallow our angst at Walkers actions.  

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So much of this debate is down to interpretation.

I heard Graeme Souness on television this week say that "the player felt contact so he had every right to go down".

I am sorry but I couldn''t find that in the rules of the game that are listed below.

Just because contact is made does that constitute a trip? A trip is defined in the dictionary as ''causing a stumble or a fall'' not falling over because you felt contact.

So what was Tierney''s foul as I do not believe he tripped Walker, I believe Walker felt contact and fell over as he said "I thought I got a clip so I went down."

The laws are there for referees to do something about it. Just because players ''get a clip'' that does not mean they were tripped and if they are not tripped why are they rewarded with a penalty?

FIFA Laws of the Game 2012-13

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

kicks or attempts to kick an opponent

trips or attempts to trip an opponent

jumps at an opponent

charges an opponent

strikes or attempts to strike an opponent

pushes an opponent

tackles an opponent

A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following three offences:

holds an opponent

spits at an opponent

handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

A direct free kick is taken from the place where the offence occurred (see Law 13 - Position of free kick).

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[quote user="crafty canary"]How to win a penalty? Seems to be a case of those that know, know and those that don''t know, don''t![/quote]MEGALOL!! [;)]

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