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BlyBlyBabes

Start of the rot against Man City. Hurry back Thomas.

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Sibierski''s goal was a result of defensive indiscipline by Mark Edworthy.

It was plain as day on Sky that he was drawn to the ball, and so failed to hold the line thus playing both Mills and Sibierski onside. Result - a free header for Sibierski.

Please hurry back Thomas Helveg.

OTBC.

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I agree Bly Bly but I also thought the defence failed to push out as a unit & just watched the 2nd cross come in, if they had pushed up to the penalty spot it would have been an easy catch for Greeno. Bottom line is we don''t have a leader on the pitch capable of organising the team.

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It may have been Edworthy''s fault, but with two unmarked attackers in the centre and just a few feet out from goal, his was not the only fault!In every game now there seems to be a lack of shape and discipline, with defenders running about in panic. When we start team re-building we need two good central defenders, and we shall have to pay more than we were prepared to pay when we bought Doherty! In the meantime I feel it''s time for Charlton to be brought back into the centre. We looked better earlier in the season with him there.I suggest a match or two with Charlton and Shackle. It would do the latter good!

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[quote]I agree Bly Bly but I also thought the defence failed to push out as a unit & just watched the 2nd cross come in, if they had pushed up to the penalty spot it would have been an easy catch for Greeno....[/quote]

Spot on, we didn''t push out when the first ball was cleared. It wasn''t Eddy''s fault at all.

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I agree with you about having a leader and have posted so several times but individual players also know what their roles are and experienced players should be aware of what each other are doing. 

So often this season players in the back 4 have simply stood and watched a ball or not come out when they should, have got themselves sucked into no mans land etc etc.  Players with the experience of our poorest performers should not need telling - Shacks in his first prem game I can just about get my head around needings some pointers; players with hundreds of games of experience failing to clear the box is basic year 1 defending training stuff and is inexcusable - leader or not.

 

OTBC

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Take a look at the original corner just before the goal.  You will see that Fleming had the responsibility for marking Sibierski.   The ball came in and was cleared at the near post.  Watch what happens next.   Flem is ball watching and jogs out and leaves his man completely unmarked.  We all know what happens next.

The whole situation sums up how we defend at the moment.  

1) Flem ball watching loses his man.

2) Cross to the edge of the six yard box should be the keepers. Greeno''s confidence is shot he doesn''t come for crosses anymore.

3) Edworthy loses concentration and ball watches and plays everyone on side.

All really basic stuff.   How have we gone from the best defence in a division to the worst?

 

OTBC

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"How have we gone from the best defence in a division to the worst?"

Losing Charlton to injury is a big part of it. I was impressed with Shackell on Monday, and if he keeps going like that, it''s definitely Shackell and Charlton in the middle.

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Remember also that last season we had Malky and Fleming in at centreback for virtually the whole season, they had been playing together for about 2-3 years as a constant and close-knit partnership. Centreback strikes me as being a position in the team that needs understanding and knowledge of what the other one is doing, and with the newness of our defence this year, ie Doherty, Charlton and Shackell, there is no clear and definite understanding of who is doing what.

We need to get two or three centrebacks in next year who are young with a sense of how to defend and then gel them together with Shackell to form one strong defensive unit whereby the centrebacks know exactly what they''re doing and more importantly, what each other are doing.

Fleming is a spent force, he''s served the club well, but with Iwan last year, there should be no sentimentality as regards players who just aren''t up for the job. I''ve been a fan of Flemings for years but now is the time when he should be replaced. I don''t advocate the idea of getting rid of him altogether, but as a first choice centreback, we should be looking more longterm and bedding in centrebacks in pairs who will be the cornerstone of the club in both 2005 through to 2010.

Like the Ashton situation, we''ve looked at what is available and been prepared to pay what it takes to bring in quality that will be around for a fair few seasons yet, it would be nice to think that the Board and Worthers will be looking to do the same across the field as regards all positions.    

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Worthy Nigelton.

What on earth are you talking about.

The point is that the other City defenders held a line that would have put both Sibierski and Mills at the very least a yard offside if Edworthy had not ball watched , panicked, broken ranks and run back like a headless chicken trying to accomplish goodness knows what. It''s as plain as day on the Sky TV pictures.

You see its about teamwork, discipline and mental strength.

Edworthy did not have the mental strength to hold the line.

That''s why Thomas Helveg is captain of Denmark, and Eddy is at best a worthy championship level player.

OTBC.

 

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I''m sorry, but so far even though he may be the captain of Denmark,Helveg''s passing has been woeful,his defending dubious at best,and some of his positional play quite amazing,its been a constant theme all season amongst certain people that when a player becomes injured ,he somehow becomes the saviour when he returns.Sorry but unless Helveg has been hiding his light under a bushell,I''ve seen nothing from him that will improve the present team.

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Chelsea would undoubtedly be happy to see Helveg lining up tomorrow. Perhaps we could recall Doherty too. I seem to recall £40 well spent on watching them gift Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. 

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The only game where Thomas has played in his prefered right back position AND been up to speed as far as the prem game is concerned was against Liverpool - it was THE defensive performance of the season by a player in a yellow shirt. 

Against Palace he was OK, but lacked pace to get forward, and he was given a tough time by Giggs against Manure; name a right back in the world that has not?  He admitted that the pace of the game surprised him (not the first overseas player to comment on this) and its generally accepted that players need 3-6 months to ''get up to speed''

Despite being played out of position in all except these three games he has shown far more defensive ability that any other city player and more than enough touches of class to show he can be a success in the prem, if we use him properly.  

What worries me is that to many people, but most significantly our manager, have decided Eddy is better and I am sadly confident that had eddy and Helveg both been fit eddy would have retained his place (as he did against the hammers) and we would still be in the same position we are now.

OTBC

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And we have been so solid without doc or helveg havent we?  Its about comparison - these two players have been better than some near or actual ever presents... So Helveg cost us a goal in a loser of a game anyway, Flem and Edds have cost us a good 10-12 points directly between them due to poor performances and positioning.

Our best performer has been Charlton at centre back, the best performance was by helveg at right back,  the difference between charlie and drury at left back negligible and every partner Fleming has had has outperfromed him. 

Against Chelsea due to injuries the back for should be

Eddy   Charlie Shacks/Doc   Drury

with Helveg coming in for Eddy.

We MUST MUST MUST get away from the number of hard working players and starting looking at actual ability, combined with effort, and utilise players in their best positions.  I would run myself into the ground as a full back for the club, doing anything Worthy wanted of me,I would love to have the opportunity to do so, but you wouldnt want me in your sunday pub team let alone a prem side - some ability to defend is a must.

As long as peple continue to be impressed by effort over effectiveness we will never make a prem side.

 

OTBC

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Helveg is by far the best defender at the club. It is laughable to even mention Edworthy in the same breath as Thomas...Edworthy is not good enough and as soon as Helveg gets back in the team, the better.

I thank you   

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[quote]Helveg is by far the best defender at the club. It is laughable to even mention Edworthy in the same breath as Thomas...Edworthy is not good enough and as soon as Helveg gets back in the team, the bet...[/quote]

On what evidence are you basing that bold statement.

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