James McClean decides not to wear a poppy

[Nuff Said 5,129]

I''ve posted it before, but I can''t say it better than this. It''s only two minutes long:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IYx4Bc6_eE

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Hang on. McLean decided (for reasons that are being speculated on here) not to wear a Poppy. I reacted by saying that I was disgusted by this action. People are naive to think that a high profile person has no more influence on things, than the man in the street

The wearing of the Poppy . It is obvious that McLean has his reasons, but no one has asked him for those reasons. I am putting the question out there.Are Sunderland naive to let it go without talking to him first, explaining (as if it really needed to) the implications, questions that would arise etc of someone in a high profile position not to wear one?

McLean didn''t want to wear a Poppy, yes that is up to him ultimately, but at least have the respect for others (no, I don''t mean me btw) to come out and say why. He WANTED to make a statement, but didn''t want to back it up, and explain it to the watching World, and there are a lot of people with their eyes on McLean.

IF, as stated, that McLean did not wear a Poppy but did respect that 2 minutes silence, is that a contradiction? Are they not representing the same thing?

This next bit is a possible scenario, but in no way, is anything I definately know about (except the Cavan story)

He MIGHT have family reasons behind his decision, he might have political reasons influencing his decision, I just don''t know. Didn''t Wes wear one yesterday? Didn''t a lot of Irish players do the same? They may, of course, not have the same history as McLean (IF that is the reason behind all this), and he may feel a lot stronger about this than Wes, et al. The different religions of County Cavan in Ireland have got together after all these years, to be ''as one'' They have put their differences aside, and are remembering the fallen.

IF (a very big IF) that is the reason that McLean has decided not to wear one, then I would urge him and his family to work through this, as others in a similar situation have been and are. There have been some innocent people taken from this World by the wrong actions of others in conflict, but the Poppy is a general symbol of remembering the Fallen over generations, not representing a particular ''battle''.

In all honesty, it would be ideal that the Poppy never came to be used, because that would have meant there had been no conflicts, and people could have led a long and healthy existence, without life being cut short..[/quote]

 

I would have thought that given he appears to be a Belfast bornj Catholic and that he has opted to play football for the republic of ireland rather than Northern Ireland its fairly obvious where his political leanings might lie and therefore why he refused to wear the poppy, just as I bet there were not many poppys on display at Celtic''s match this weekend.

 Whilst I disagree with his views (which i am sure are probably a product of his unbringing in an area where the British army are hated) and am no fan of Northern Irish republicans he ultimately has the right to do what he likes provided  and I firmly believe in freedom of speech in this country. Its not like he set fire to a poppy in the middle of the pitch or deliberately shouted anti British army abuse throughout the minutes silence.  People already get offended in this country at the drop of a hat. Just as the EDL are entitled to walk through Norwich and hold the beliefs they do, Maclean can hold such beliefs as he likes even if many people may find them disagreeable. That is what freedom of speech is about.

[crabbycanary 2]

Like I said, I do not know why he decided not to, as I haven''t seen an explanation. What i do know is that he stood in silence on the pitch, but chose very deliberately not to wear the Poppy. Whats the difference? I am not implying, btw, that he has to show a ''minimum'' amount of respect.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Instead of all the speculation it would be good to know why it happened and why he didn''t wear the poppy ....... perhaps he just picked up the wrong shirt!

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Like I said, I do not know why he decided not to, as I haven''t seen an explanation. What i do know is that he stood in silence on the pitch, but chose very deliberately not to wear the Poppy. Whats the difference? I am not implying, btw, that he has to show a ''minimum'' amount of respect.[/quote]

 

Seems that you''ve chosen to ignore the advice on page 3 of this post and write to him, instead you''ve deemed it more productive to go round in circles like a dog chasing its tail. Now thats your choice and you have every right to do so but maybe you''ll get a response by writing to him, a SAE may help.

 

[crabbycanary 2]

Page 3 you say? Thanks I''ll have a look.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Like I said, I do not know why he decided not to, as I haven''t seen an explanation. What i do know is that he stood in silence on the pitch, but chose very deliberately not to wear the Poppy. Whats the difference? I am not implying, btw, that he has to show a ''minimum'' amount of respect.[/quote]

I would argue the difference is that to not obey the minutes silence would have involved him proactively disrupting it, presumably by singing out loud or something whereas he felt that him just wearing his normal shirt was just him going about things normally rather than going out of his way to cause disruption. I would think a premiership footballer deliberately ruining a minutes silence in front of 35,000 people would cause rather more of a stir than what he did!

Maybe he didn;t respect the minutes silence in the way we all did but instead spent it remembering dead irish republican heroes! Who knows?

I''m not saying i agree in any way with what he did by the way. Quite the contrary. I just believe people have the right to believe what they want provided they don;t break the law. In fact i think some of the laws we now have go over the top and interfere too much with our right to our own views.

[Billabong 0]

The guy wasn''t asked to wear a Union Jack on his shirt.

The poppy represents all lives lost in pointless conflicts.

The poppy is also symbolic to Germans.

Considering Irish republicans supported the Germans, you would have to say the lad has been ill advised, which ever way you look at it.

It''s his right, sure but wearing a poppy doesn''t make you pro British or celebrate being British, it''s recognition that war is pointless and a tragic waste of life, which ever side you are on.

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

It''s a choice. I choose to wear a poppy. Others don''t. Doesn''t mean they don''t care. Doesn''t mean they haven''t donated. Just means they choose not to.

Lots of people outside City Hall for the Rememberance Service yesterday weren''t wearing poppies either.

 

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

[quote user="Billabong"]The guy wasn''t asked to wear a Union Jack on his shirt.[/quote]

 

A Union Flag. Union Jack is on a ship. An easy mistake to make.

[johnnygavinscoresagain 0]

[quote user="Billabong"]The guy wasn''t asked to wear a Union Jack on his shirt. The poppy represents all lives lost in pointless conflicts. The poppy is also symbolic to Germans. Considering Irish republicans supported the Germans, you would have to say the lad has been ill advised, which ever way you look at it. It''s his right, sure but wearing a poppy doesn''t make you pro British or celebrate being British, it''s recognition that war is pointless and a tragic waste of life, which ever side you are on.[/quote]

Nowt to do with the Germans mate.

Ill advised?

He comes from a city where 26 unarmed civil rights protesters and bystanders were gunned down in cold blood by the Parachute Regiment.

He has every right not to wear the poppy if he so wishes.

[johnnygavinscoresagain 0]

[quote user="Billabong"]The guy wasn''t asked to wear a Union Jack on his shirt. The poppy represents all lives lost in pointless conflicts. The poppy is also symbolic to Germans. Considering Irish republicans supported the Germans, you would have to say the lad has been ill advised, which ever way you look at it. It''s his right, sure but wearing a poppy doesn''t make you pro British or celebrate being British, it''s recognition that war is pointless and a tragic waste of life, which ever side you are on.[/quote]

Nowt to do with the Germans mate.

Ill advised?

He comes from a city where 26 unarmed civil rights protesters and bystanders were gunned down in cold blood by the Parachute Regiment.

He has every right not to wear the poppy if he so wishes.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="johnnygavinscoresagain"]

[quote user="Billabong"]The guy wasn''t asked to wear a Union Jack on his shirt. The poppy represents all lives lost in pointless conflicts. The poppy is also symbolic to Germans. Considering Irish republicans supported the Germans, you would have to say the lad has been ill advised, which ever way you look at it. It''s his right, sure but wearing a poppy doesn''t make you pro British or celebrate being British, it''s recognition that war is pointless and a tragic waste of life, which ever side you are on.[/quote]

Nowt to do with the Germans mate.

Ill advised?

He comes from a city where 26 unarmed civil rights protesters and bystanders were gunned down in cold blood by the Parachute Regiment.

He has every right not to wear the poppy if he so wishes.

[/quote]And the poppy is not a universal symbol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy#Usagehttp://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead-6257416.htmlhttp://worldobserveronline.com/2012/11/08/why-i-choose-not-to-wear-poppy/

[morty 0]

Can''t be bothered to read the whole thread, so apologies if its already been said.

Seriously, so what? If he chooses not to wear one then thats his free choice.

(For the record I was in the forces for 22 years and am a member of the Royal British Legion and I didn''t buy a poppy this year, I just never got round to it. It doesn''t mean I respect the war dead any less.)

[The gut 0]

His reasons could be few or many. It is none of anyone else''s business. He perhaps needed to explain to his employer and that should be it.

What if he hated the thought of wearing a poppy? what if he couldnt care less either way? what if he was actually in favour of wearing a poppy but what if he felt having his name on the back of a shirt with a poppy on it would provoke some form of terrorist backlash attack on any of his friends and family? What if he was concerned about a terrorist attack also by choosing not to wear one? What if he felt that was the best of either option and hoped that no one would make a big deal of it, keep it low profile, for the safety of himself and his loved ones? What if everyone just wanting to know to satisfy their own curiosity or so they can have someone to hate actually raises the profile and heightens the possibility of an attack, severe injury or even death.

Would the nosey and or judgemental public and media feel guilty? I think they should, but I expect many would justify themselves by saying everyone had the right to know. I don''t think so.

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="johnnygavinscoresagain"]

[quote user="Billabong"]The guy wasn''t asked to wear a Union Jack on his shirt. The poppy represents all lives lost in pointless conflicts. The poppy is also symbolic to Germans. Considering Irish republicans supported the Germans, you would have to say the lad has been ill advised, which ever way you look at it. It''s his right, sure but wearing a poppy doesn''t make you pro British or celebrate being British, it''s recognition that war is pointless and a tragic waste of life, which ever side you are on.[/quote]

Nowt to do with the Germans mate.

Ill advised?

He comes from a city where 26 unarmed civil rights protesters and bystanders were gunned down in cold blood by the Parachute Regiment.

He has every right not to wear the poppy if he so wishes.

[/quote]

As an ex Para who was there in 72 and on parade in London Yesterday Cobblers you talk out of your Aris. Unarmed people kids in Warrington people out for a night in Birmingham ,woman and children on a bus returning to Catterick blown up, Children blown up in Omagh, I could go on for ever Big brave hooded IRA.  

[nutty nigel 7,531]

Everyone''s opinion on this thread is going to offend somebody else but some of the comments are ridiculous. Is a mother''s son''s life worth more if he was in the British army? Are innocent British lives worth more than innocent Irish or innocent Iraqi? Rememberance shouldn''t be about judgement it should be about heartfelt reflection and respect.

 

 

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Everyone''s opinion on this thread is going to offend somebody else but some of the comments are ridiculous. Is a mother''s son''s life worth more if he was in the British army? Are innocent British lives worth more than innocent Irish or innocent Iraqi? Rememberance shouldn''t be about judgement it should be about heartfelt reflection and respect.

 

 

[/quote]

Coulcn''t agree more Nutty

[Duncan Edwards 0]

[quote user="morty"]

Can''t be bothered to read the whole thread, so apologies if its already been said.

Seriously, so what? If he chooses not to wear one then thats his free choice.

(For the record I was in the forces for 22 years and am a member of the Royal British Legion and I didn''t buy a poppy this year, I just never got round to it. It doesn''t mean I respect the war dead any less.)

[/quote]

Binner

[crabbycanary 2]

Something good is going to come out of this, as he is auctioning his ''un-poppied'' shirt for a Dublin Hospital. That''s good, and I hope he does that every week of the season, it will raise a lot of money for a great cause.

Like I said before, he WANTED to make a statement. Some might say he wasn''t brave enough to follow it through by not taking part in the minutes silence. Some have said he may have been ill advised. Now having seen some of his previous behaviour , that may have an element of truth in it, it may not.

I think the word Cynical was invented for people like me

*waits for some one word answers that people will also have for me* :)

[morty 0]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"][quote user="morty"]

Can''t be bothered to read the whole thread, so apologies if its already been said.

Seriously, so what? If he chooses not to wear one then thats his free choice.

(For the record I was in the forces for 22 years and am a member of the Royal British Legion and I didn''t buy a poppy this year, I just never got round to it. It doesn''t mean I respect the war dead any less.)

[/quote]

Binner[/quote][:D]

[johnnygavinscoresagain 0]

Where did I mention the rights and wrongs of the IRA? Or that they were in any way big and brave? Those atrocities you mention are equally dispicable.

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="johnnygavinscoresagain"]Where did I mention the rights and wrongs of the IRA? Or that they were in any way big and brave? Those atrocities you mention are equally dispicable.[/quote]

It''s when people keep on saying unarmed peaceful demonstration, this gets people like me who were there feel very bitter towards people who make such statements, Why well because I for one Saw Martin Maguinnes in front of the marchers carrying A F.......g Thomson Machine gun, if this was a peaceful march why have this gun on show,  My last word on the subject

[johnnygavinscoresagain 0]

[quote user="pete_norw"]

[quote user="johnnygavinscoresagain"]Where did I mention the rights and wrongs of the IRA? Or that they were in any way big and brave? Those atrocities you mention are equally dispicable.[/quote]

It''s when people keep on saying unarmed peaceful demonstration, this gets people like me who were there feel very bitter towards people who make such statements, Why well because I for one Saw Martin Maguinnes in front of the marchers carrying A F.......g Thomson Machine gun, if this was a peaceful march why have this gun on show,  My last word on the subject

[/quote]

Fair enough, you have one view, others have another. We''ll leave it there.

[Loopzilla 1]

[quote user="johnnygavinscoresagain"][quote user="pete_norw"]

[quote user="johnnygavinscoresagain"]Where did I mention the rights and wrongs of the IRA? Or that they were in any way big and brave? Those atrocities you mention are equally dispicable.[/quote]

It''s when people keep on saying unarmed peaceful demonstration, this gets people like me who were there feel very bitter towards people who make such statements, Why well because I for one Saw Martin Maguinnes in front of the marchers carrying A F.......g Thomson Machine gun, if this was a peaceful march why have this gun on show,  My last word on the subject

[/quote]

Fair enough, you have one view, others have another. We''ll leave it there.

[/quote]

The difference being that Pete''s "view" is forged out of experience rather than being...well, plucked out of the air perhaps?

[The gut 0]

A view based on a very emotional experience does not make it any more factual.

The fact that some people were armed during a march does not mean that others were not there for a peaceful demonstration.

I think it has been proved that there were unarmed and seemingly innocent victims on that fatal day.

This thread has become intriguingly opinionated in such an extreme way when there does not appear to be facts backing them up.

I for one do not believe that anyone choosing or not choosing to do something means they want to make a statement.

I think an open mind would be a good thing in the absence of facts.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="Loopzilla"][quote user="johnnygavinscoresagain"][quote user="pete_norw"]

[quote user="johnnygavinscoresagain"]Where did I mention the rights and wrongs of the IRA? Or that they were in any way big and brave? Those atrocities you mention are equally dispicable.[/quote]

It''s when people keep on saying unarmed peaceful demonstration, this gets people like me who were there feel very bitter towards people who make such statements, Why well because I for one Saw Martin Maguinnes in front of the marchers carrying A F.......g Thomson Machine gun, if this was a peaceful march why have this gun on show,  My last word on the subject

[/quote]

Fair enough, you have one view, others have another. We''ll leave it there.

[/quote]

The difference being that Pete''s "view" is forged out of experience rather than being...well, plucked out of the air perhaps?

[/quote]

 

I don''t think so. Pete''s view, as far as I can see, is that the IRA was a nasty piece of work. I doubt many would argue with that. But it has nothing to do with whether someone who was nine-years-old at the time of the Good Friday Agreement (which set the seal on the IRA having called a halt to violence) should or should not wear a poppy.

[Billabong 0]

You have to love the PC brigade on this site

Not only do they defend the IRA for their atrocities but they actually try to justify them in support of James McClean.

Whatever your views on Bloody Sunday or the Easter Rising or 40 years of IRA atrocities.

It''s time to put it all behind us and move on. Unfortunately people like James McClean want to keep it going.

Please don''t tell me he wasn''t making a political statement, he clearly was. If you believe otherwise you are being unbelievably naive.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="Billabong"]

You have to love the PC brigade on this site Not only do they defend the IRA for their atrocities but they actually try to justify them in support of James McClean.

 

 

[/quote]

 

I have just read this thread. I cannot find one single post that says anything even vaguely like either of those two assertions of yours.

 

 

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Billabong"] 

It''s time to put it all behind us and move on. [/quote]Says the man wearing a poppy...