An important appeal for Saturday

[GMF 736]

Oh and the 14 Liverpool fans convicted for involuntary manslaughter, 7 got 3 years, the other 7 got suspended sentences.

I''ll leave it to you to decide if justice was done

[Yosser Hughes 0]

[quote user="Captain Holt"]Doesn''t matter who the main instigators were, you killed 39 rival fans.[/quote]Who killed 39 fans?I was certainly not responsible for the death of any fan.  From where I was standing in Brussels that night, it was the shoddy construction of a wall that crumbled in a dilapidated stadium that never should have been awarded a safety certificate for a European Final.It is no coincidence that representatives from Juventus and Liverpool raised concerns over the venue prior to the event, as had Arsenal fans when using the same venue approx one year earlier.Roma fans caused serious trouble at the 1984 European Final and many Juventus fans were clearly out in force on the 29th May 1985 looking for trouble.  It was Juventus fans in the so called neutral area that evening who started to pelt the Liverpool end with various objects and who were clearly looking for trouble.I could go on to highlight fans of Italian clubs who have crossed the line by mocking lost lives, just as some fans of many English have done over the years.For what it is worth Liverpool fans have held their hands up and apologised for the part that they had to play in this unfortunate disaster. Prior to our Champions League Quarter Final with Juve'' in 2005 placards were held up by the Kop which read "AMICZIA" (friendship in Italian). Some Juve'' fans applauded the gesture, but just as many turned their backs on us or offered obscene gestures in return.They like you, seem unwilling to accept that all clubs have d**kheads that follow them and by behaving in that manner they are failing to hold up their hands to the part their club and fans had to play in the Heysel disaster.

[Yosser Hughes 0]

[quote user="GMF"]Oh and the 14 Liverpool fans convicted for involuntary manslaughter, 7 got 3 years, the other 7 got suspended sentences.

I''ll leave it to you to decide if justice was done[/quote]Thank you GMF.It seems to me that justice was handed out to many of the individuals who deserved it.  I think that many Italians would count themselves lucky to have not been hauled in front of the courts though.I seem to recall many Italians wielding extremely large shards of metal as weapons inside the stadium, throwing rocks and flares.  One Italian even fired a starting pistol at us Scouse Scally''s.I guess that we must have deserved it because we had a few complete tools travel with us too?

[nutty nigel 7,527]

Yosser - In your view has anything ever happened to Liverpool fans that they deserved?

 

 

[goonuppersee 0]

I hate Liverpool with a passion.  While I was growing up they won everything, and every man and his gloryhunting dog who probably wouldn''t have even been able to find Liverpool on a map supported them.  To this day I know many Liverpool "fans" around here, most of whom I''ve been to Anfield more times than they have and they constantly belittle Norwich.  I hate them because the actions of their supporters cost us a place in Europe 3 times (which they originally tried to blame on Chelsea fans who had infiltrated them).  I hate them because of the behaviour of their fans at Anfield at an FA Cup replay in 1990.  I hate them because of the way they handled the Suarez thing last year.  Even this week we''ve been subjected to Rodgers moaning about their treatment by refereees and players trying to convince the press that Suarez is not a diver.  Loathsome, loathsome club  

One thing is for sure, the 96 who died at Hillsborough were not to blame for their own deaths, and I have massive sympathy for the families of those who died.  Several contributing factors were to blame - The Police, Sheffield Wednesday, The FA, Roadworks on the M62 etc etc.  Those 96 who died were not drunk or ticketless as they got themselves into the ground in plenty of time but no-one will ever know how many people who got into the ground were because only the dead were tested for alcohol.  Move forward to the Champions League final in Athens and the situation was reversed, drunk ticketless Liverpool fans managed to force their way into the ground filling it up and leaving ticketless fans outside. A lesson from history learned?  It seems not

I won''t be joining in with their "Justice" chants or "You''ll never walk alone".  Not out of disrespect for those who died, but because I''ve had enough of it now.  The independent enquiry has made its findings public, not much there that anyone with any common sense has known for years.  Its always been apparent that there was a major cover up.     

If they observe the minutes applause for John Bond impeccably,  then I''m sure all will be fine.  If not, who knows what chants might get rolled out    

[Yosser Hughes 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Yosser - In your view has anything ever happened to Liverpool fans that they deserved?

 

 

[/quote]

Well we did win 4 European Cups in 8 years.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

[quote user="Yosser Hughes"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Yosser - In your view has anything ever happened to Liverpool fans that they deserved?

 

 

[/quote]


Well we did win 4 European Cups in 8 years.


[/quote]

 

Well done.

[goonuppersee 0]

[quote user="GMF"]Oh and the 14 Liverpool fans convicted for involuntary manslaughter, 7 got 3 years, the other 7 got suspended sentences. I''ll leave it to you to decide if justice was done[/quote]

 7 got 3 years, but half of that was suspended and its never been made clear exactly how much time any of them actually spent in jail

 

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="Yosser Hughes"][quote user="GMF"]Oh and the 14 Liverpool fans convicted for involuntary manslaughter, 7 got 3 years, the other 7 got suspended sentences. I''ll leave it to you to decide if justice was done[/quote]

Thank you GMF.

It seems to me that justice was handed out to many of the individuals who deserved it.  I think that many Italians would count themselves lucky to have not been hauled in front of the courts though.

I seem to recall many Italians wielding extremely large shards of metal as weapons inside the stadium, throwing rocks and flares.  One Italian even fired a starting pistol at us Scouse Scally''s.

I guess that we must have deserved it because we had a few complete tools travel with us too?


[/quote]

 

[IMG]http://www.saladellamemoriaheysel.it/Immagini/AndreaCasula2.jpg[/IMG]

[Yellow Messiah 0]

Don''t you dare try and portray you Scousers as the victims at Heysel or that Liverpool fans were "forced" into killing 39 rival fans. No wonder people sing that "Always the victims, its never your fought" with attitudes like yours. Even at Anfield last Sunday it was the Liverpool fans who started that chant by making "aeroplane signs" at the Man United fans.

[Bill 1,788]

"throwing rocks" ?

 

I didn''t think we had such things in those days, it was stones

 

Still you were there I suppose, so you know better

[Bill 1,788]

I guess that we must have deserved it because we had a few complete tools travel with us too?

a few ......

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI9R1zhIl6c

 

(not pleasant watching)

 

 

 

 

[Shankslad 0]

As has been stated on many posts, any terrible disaster involves a series of contributing factors occuring.  This is as true for Heysel as for Hillsborough.   Heysel also has many contributing factors but I think the important issue is that Instigation and provacation does not provide justification and it''s not just actions people must bear responsibility for but equally their reactions and in many cases their overeactions.

 

I do not accept as an excuse or a justification the fact some Italian fans instigated and provoked trouble.   In those days, and possibly even now in some countries any travelling English fans were prime targets to be spat at, goaded, insulted, ridiculed and provoked.   It was only expected when travelling abroad we may be confronted with this problem therefore it was vital we kept control and did not over-react because in doing so the English fan was in a no win situation.   Absolutely pointless in reacting to the provocation, as severe as it may be.

 

Of course someone not involved can suddenly find themselves standing in front of a maniac wielding a metal pole or something and self-protection is necessary.   But that doesn''t involve scaling fences and charging into opposing fans.   Those drawn into the melee in this manner are usually doing their best to get away from it not being even more part of it.

 

Lets face it, in those days there were groups of people who went to matches just for violence and it was organised.   The Police even went undercover to infiltrate the gangs who attached themselves to some clubs.   Even though violence was prevelant in football I cannot and will not condone anyone who decided to get stuck-in to the opposing fans at Heysel.

 

There is a post on here where the poster states his hatred for Liverpool fans then proceeds to describe a collection of woolie-backs and plastics who wouldn''t know a bowl of scouse if they fell into one!   The Scousers are the ones who at Anfield, always applaud the opposition goalie.   The Scousers are the ones who applauded the Norwich players after the 1-1 draw last year.   The Scousers are the ones who directed the police to the culprit abusing Tom Adeyemi (sp?).   When I suggested a round of applause was sufficient for those not wishing to sing YNWA I didn''t mean a round of applause for the Liverpool fans - It''s a round of applause showing respect for fellow football fans who never returned from Hillsborough.

 

 

[Shankslad 0]

[quote user="City1st"]

I guess that we must have deserved it because we had a few complete tools travel with us too?

a few ......

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI9R1zhIl6c

 

(not pleasant watching)

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

Only saw this after my previous post. Horrific and harrowing in the extreme to see it again after all these years but thank you for posting the clip.   And no one could have imagined at that time that even worse was to come

[Captain Holt 522]

Yosser, I obviously wasn''t insinuating that YOU killed anybody was I, just that you need to accept that it was Liverpool''s fault. You''re not helping your cause with some of these replies...

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="Shankslad"]

 

There is a post on here where the poster states his hatred for Liverpool fans then proceeds to describe a collection of woolie-backs and plastics who wouldn''t know a bowl of scouse if they fell into one!   The Scousers are the ones who at Anfield, always applaud the opposition goalie.   The Scousers are the ones who applauded the Norwich players after the 1-1 draw last year.   The Scousers are the ones who directed the police to the culprit abusing Tom Adeyemi (sp?).   When I suggested a round of applause was sufficient for those not wishing to sing YNWA I didn''t mean a round of applause for the Liverpool fans - It''s a round of applause showing respect for fellow football fans who never returned from Hillsborough.

 

 

[/quote]

 

But isn''t that the case with fans of all football clubs, that in any group there are some idiots? Isn''t that just as true of Everton fans, Man Utd fans, Tranmere fans, Norwich City fans?

Or is your argument that the self-image Liverpool fans seem to have promoted really is true? That they are more knowledgeable about the game? Even more so than Everton fans from the same city in some freak of genetics or upbringing I have never understood. More than that, while other fans are rabidly one-eyed, Liverpool supporters uniquely keep alive the nineteenth century Corinthian traditions of sportsmanship and respect for the opposition?

 

 

[Shankslad 0]

One of the legacies of success any club has is the worldwide appeal of the club attracting support from people outside the clubs environment.   People who have no attachment at all to the community the club originally represented - this is true of all clubs directly commensurate with their level of success.   Indeed it is a marketing aim of a club and great benefits are derived from a wider fan base in terms of merchandise et al.

Are Liverpool supporters more knowledgable than Everton supporters? - a quick research of my family suggests that is the case!   Those that support Everton are definitely proof of that theory!!!

 

And YES what some describe as Victorian and outdated sporting principles I would like at least some of that spirit retained and continued as it''s also related to general attitudes within society.   Why do boxers having battered each other round after round end up hugging each other when it''s over?

 

 

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

I didn''t hear it sung

[nutty nigel 7,527]

No it wasn''t sung. And despite all the posts on here talking it up I don''t believe it was ever going to be sung. I believe in our fans. We''re not whiter than white but we don''t push the boundaries either. The Thatcher song got a couple of loud and clear airings though. I didn''t join in. There''s something in my conscience that won''t let me wish death on someone as much as I dislike them. What do you think Mick, Jon et al?