An important appeal for Saturday

[flecky76 0]

Back in April when we played Liverpool at home, I was disappointed at the time when I heard the lower Barclay sing the ''never the victims'' chant.

That was the first time I had ever heard that chant and later realised it was only first sung by the Man U fans last season also.

Those morons who sang this song in April now know that, with the news 2 weeks ago, this has proved to be an utterly wrong song in so many ways.

This chant MUST NOT be heard at Carrow Rd on Saturday. DO NOT let Norwich City fans be brought down to the minority of Man U fans. Remember, after their game yesterday, the eyes of the world will be on Liverpools game on Saturday and the fans behaviour in particular, especially following all the hoo ha from yesterday''s game and the Jill up to it.

IT IS DOWN TO ALL OF US TO ENSURE THIS SONG IS NOT SUNG THIS TIME AROUND. I SHALL BE EXTREMELY SADDENED AND ASHAMED IF I HEAR IT THIS TIME AROUND.

PLEASE RESPECT THE 96 INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO WENT TO A FOOTBALL MATCH AND DIDN''T COME BACK.

I want my team to win on Saturday and I will be cheering hem on get 3 points. However, some things are bigger than a game. This is one of those moments, so we all need to ensure we don''t let the good name of Norwich City down.

Thank you.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

And no-one applaud Gerrard for doing nothing[;)]

[nutty nigel 7,509]

And no one sell 20 burgers to a fat scouser from Hoveton[;)]

 

[hogesar 9,615]

Probably worth pointing out that from my perspective at least the chant was not related to Hillsborough but more the overall impression i get from the Scouse twats moaning that the worlds against them at every possible turn.

[Gingerpele 0]

While I agree with you, your never going to stop idiots from being idiots... We could get them all ''put down'' but that''s probably against the law...

[Bill 1,788]

"''never the victims'' "  ?

 

 

I thought it was ''always the victims''

 

 

[flecky76 0]

Good point city first! Slip of the fingers...

Anyway, whatever peoples opinions, and I appreciate many have different views, Saturday must not be political in anyway whatsoever.

I would find it extremely odd if people think against the independent panels findings, unless of course you''ve read through the 400,000 documents yourselves of course! But if you do think against those findings, Saturday is a time to shut up and respect the grieving families.

[Bill 1,788]

I don''t think the ''findings'' have given a satisfactory explanation as to why there were more fans outside the stand than there were space inside - or whether there was any connection between this incident and the Heysell stadium disaster, or this further action -

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/50352-uefa-liverpool-fans-to-blame-for-ticket-chaos

 

However a moronic chant at a football ground is not the way to engage in that debate - and does nothing other than to reaffirm views (widely held at the time) by those outside of football that most football fans are no more than mindless hooligans.

 

Lets hope no incident or behaviour from either sets of fans on Saturday does anything to put that view back in peoples minds.

 

 

[Koreacanary 0]

I was thinking about offensive chants the other day and looked up what Liverpool fans sang to Manchester United fans and vice versa, I also wondered if we fans ever sang anything offensive. Although I think singing "Always the victims" is pretty mercenary, the worst thing I have ever heard from us was directed at Ipswich town fans with regard to the suffolk murders. Funnily enough, there is a similar song that Liverpool fans direct at Manchester United fans with reference to Harold Shipman.

I don''t particuliarly like Liverpool football club particuliarly after their behavior last season and their defence of Luis Suarez but the Hillsborough disaster was a horrendous tragedy and although they themselves are guilty of singing some pretty nasty songs, I think there are far funnier ones about scousers that don''t do anything to desecrate the name of the men, women, boys and girls who died on thay fateful day at Hillsborough.

[crab 0]

I think, on balance, that we probably shouldn''t sing this song on saturday, if only to avoid the subsequent hand-wringing of the media.

Last season, it certainly wasn''t sung as a reference to Hillsborough, but, as mentioned above, a reference to the whole scouse mentality. But it raises the question of where does all this stop. Man Utd fans have been lambasted in the national media for singing "United, United..." in an attempt to drown out "You''ll never walk alone" before their game on Sunday. Were they supposed to just let their biggest rivals sing their club song with no interruption? Is no-one ever allowed to respond to their sacred song ever again? Will it be disrespectful to respond with "You''ll never get a job"? I suspect it would be given the current climate.

 

As for the point that those who sung it last year were ''morons'', that''s just nonsense. Has it really been proved that the sentiment of the ''always the victim'' song is wrong? The findings of the panel might suggest so, but have a look at some of the evidence in the report. Read some of the statements made by witnesses at the time. Look at the reports made by individual police officers outside and inside the ground. Conveniently the panel seemed to overlook a lot of evidence in their desperate attempts to reach the ''right'' conclusion.

[trueyellow 0]

Crab i totally agree with your post, i dont think this was sung last year with any reference to Hillsborough at all but just a general view on as you said ''the whole scouse mentality''. Fans have to be allowed to chant songs to each other to create atmosphere and we mustnt get in the situation were it is all very much a mutual appreciation society. You hear songs every week that are disrespectful in one way or another so people just need to get on with it, i do agree though that direct songs to Hillsborough or the munich air disaster should not be heard.

I also agree with the point that the panel wanted to reach the right conclusion, i cannot agree with the view that it was just the police and authorities fault, why were the extra fans there, why did they turn up without tickets??? I would have thought the right conclusion would have been errors on both sides.

[Punting Canary 0]

You have to wonder about Liverpool fans sometimes though given what Mark Halsey has had to put up with this week.  Given the support and goodwill the club has had from all fans in the last couple of weeks you would have thought some of them might have engaged their only brain cell before suggesting they wished that cancer had taken Mark Halsey when he had it.

[shefcanary 2,383]

[quote user="Punting Canary"]You have to wonder about Liverpool fans sometimes though given what Mark Halsey has had to put up with this week.  Given the support and goodwill the club has had from all fans in the last couple of weeks you would have thought some of them might have engaged their only brain cell before suggesting they wished that cancer had taken Mark Halsey when he had it.
[/quote]

 

Yeah just sing "Halsey got it right" at them if you really want to wind them up - if they get uptight about that after the treatment they dished out on line on Saturday they deserve everything they get.  They really do need to do some self-policing.

[Kathy 733]

That song is an earworm isnt it? Ever since I read this thread it''s been stuck in my head.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

That song is more a reference to Heysel and Suarez and the general persecuted victim mentality than to Hillsborough although I agree in the present climate it would be unwise to sing it since it would no doubt be interpreted to be about Hillsborough and we would get a load of grief for it.

Please, please however spare me any Liverpool love in with calls for you''ll never walk alone to be sung or applause for their fans. These are still the same t***s who got us banned from Europe given our most successful period in recent history, who overtly supported their racist player last season when they knew what he had said and whom i''m sure those us us who grew up in Norwich in the 80''s have always disliked with a passion.

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="crab"]

I think, on balance, that we probably shouldn''t sing this song on saturday, if only to avoid the subsequent hand-wringing of the media.

Last season, it certainly wasn''t sung as a reference to Hillsborough, but, as mentioned above, a reference to the whole scouse mentality. But it raises the question of where does all this stop. Man Utd fans have been lambasted in the national media for singing "United, United..." in an attempt to drown out "You''ll never walk alone" before their game on Sunday. Were they supposed to just let their biggest rivals sing their club song with no interruption? Is no-one ever allowed to respond to their sacred song ever again? Will it be disrespectful to respond with "You''ll never get a job"? I suspect it would be given the current climate.

 

[/quote]

 

The United fans had a point when they asked where that "famous Munich song" was. For years the scousers have tormented them with two or three versions but miraculously not this year. United fans were not out of order chanting "United, United" throughout "You''ll Never Walk Alone". Maybe if they wanted a show of respect, which would have been fair enough, a minutes silence would have been the way forward. But I can tell you that the scousers don''t always do minutes silences. They don''t do them because their fans wouldn''t respect them. Would we expect ipswich fans to join in with or keep quiet through OTBC? If this is truly a watershed where these offensive chants are going to be driven out of the game then I welcome it. But if that''s the case it''s going to take a huge effort from the scousers because in the past they have been amongst the worst offenders. Their reputation has been built up over time. It wasn''t built on Hillsborough.

 

Hillsborough was devastating. The victims, their families and the survivors of that awful disaster will always have my full respect. But the scousers who built their deserving reputation are not worthy of it.

 

 

 

 

[Stig 0]

Personal, I despise Liverpool. For both personal reasons and football reasons. I''ve yet to meet a Liverpool fan that has agreeable thoughts about football, or who didn''t think they were "cheated" whenever they lost. I don''t like them at all. I''m above chanting about Hillborough, but you could bet your bottom dollar if I wasn''t working on saturday I''d be at Carrow Road shouting bloody murder at them.

They are not a nice club, they are not nice people and they do not deserve our respect. I''d be ashamed of our fans if we call for never walk alone or if we clap Stevie G for no reason.

My call to you all is to have some common sense and don''t offend them, but wind them up and jeer them. Sing On the ball city, not their song. The weekend coming is about our club getting it''s first win, not them.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

What I would very much like is the Liverpool fans to come here and concentrate on ,and sing songs about the football match in question instead of turning this whole campaign into  roadshow at every ground they attend. I''m there for the football and thats all I wan''t to hear about on the day.

Yes Liverpool have an issue and have a road ahead of them to bring whoever it is that needs to be brought to justice, but they should keep that in house , the rest of us dont want to be hearing about it week after week after week after week.

[TIL 1010 4,718]

Had Mark Halsey been a scouser and was subjected to the disgraceful txts/tweets or whatever it was at a game not involving Liverpool the victim mentality would be pouring out of merseyside all over the world like a bad rash.Let us also not forget the treatment young Tom Adeyemi was subjected to that had the lad in tears.

Liverpool FC always offended but never the offenders......yeah righto.

[Stig 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Had Mark Halsey been a scouser and was subjected to the disgraceful txts/tweets or whatever it was at a game not involving Liverpool the victim mentality would be pouring out of merseyside all over the world like a bad rash.Let us also not forget the treatment young Tom Adeyemi was subjected to that had the lad in tears.

Liverpool FC always offended but never the offenders......yeah righto.

[/quote]

Damn it, I forgot about that incident. I''m glad I am at work for that game. I think I''d probably explode in a violent rage. I did when I saw Adeyemi :\

[GMF 736]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Had Mark Halsey been a scouser and was subjected to the disgraceful txts/tweets or whatever it was at a game not involving Liverpool the victim mentality would be pouring out of merseyside all over the world like a bad rash.Let us also not forget the treatment young Tom Adeyemi was subjected to that had the lad in tears.

Liverpool FC always offended but never the offenders......yeah righto.

[/quote]

 

Perhaps we should give our scouse visitors an IQ test with chants of support to "There''s only one Tom Adeyemi" and see what sort of response that generates?

[zemas tendon 0]

Most of the Scouse fans will be from round this area, anyway, and have never stepped foot in Anfield, and Hillsborough, Hysel is something they heard on the news!!

[Jammy Yellow 0]

I am owning up and admitting to singing this song last year. However, untill the united match I was not aware it was with direct reference to hillsborough. (If it is...)

I seem to remember it always being sung after the "Suarez you know what you are" song and believed it to be reference to the ongoing racism handshake and the fact Liverpool supported him.

I will not sing it this time and will try out cheer it. However I hope the anti-suarez songs will be a plenty as he is a racist fool. Not only do I wish him to play rubbish but I wouldn''t mind Barnett destroying him..

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

I think scousers and mancs are equally as bad as each other when it comes to offensive chants. OP, I don''t think you''ll hear any insensitive chants at this saturday''s match (fingers crossed) as the Hillsborough tragedy has been so much in people''s thoughts for the past couple of weeks or so.

[flecky76 0]

Some really good sensible comments on here and I agree with a lot that has been said.

Perhaps I was a bit strong with the morons comment, but am glad to get this debated as I just know there will be a spotlight on us Saturday, particularly if the chanting did go the wrong way.  Certainly, I''ll be singing songs to Suarez etc, and the usual humourous songs - no problems whatsoever with that. 

Cheers all.  otbc

[The Great Drinkell 50]

One other point ... at the time of this disaster think where you were... many of us were at "the other Semi Final at Villa park. I always feel a little bit of "there by the grace of god go I "moment.

Let''s just support our team and let them worry about thiers.

[marvin the martian 0]

A Tom Adeyemi chant is a good idea

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Had Mark Halsey been a scouser and was subjected to the disgraceful txts/tweets or whatever it was at a game not involving Liverpool the victim mentality would be pouring out of merseyside all over the world like a bad rash.Let us also not forget the treatment young Tom Adeyemi was subjected to that had the lad in tears.

Liverpool FC always offended but never the offenders......yeah righto.

[/quote]What percentage of Liverpool fans sent offensive tweets to Mark Halsey? How many Liverpool fans abused* Tom Adeyemi? How many Norwich fans have racially abused their own (now on loan) players on Twitter? How many Norwich fans joined in with ''You know what you are'' chants directed at Anton Ferdinand?The point being all clubs have a small minority of tw@ts following them. Any attempts to argue otherwise are just the typical ''whataboutery'' that taints all modern football. Are sectarian chants worse if they are made by Rangers or Celtic fans? Are Munich chants worse that Hillsborough ones? Are chants about Steve Wright worse than wishing Delia dead?The thing with the whold ''Scouse victim'' chant is that it is this exact wider public perception that allowed police/media/politicians to paint Liverpool fans as guilty at Hillsborough. You only have to look at the responses to threads discussing the subject on here, a relatively small group of Norwich fans, to see how they got away with it for so long. If you want to believe that the ''Always the victim. Never your fault'' chant doesn''t add to that perception and therefore has nothing to do with Hillsborough then you a very naive. It''s time all football fans grew up and stopped hiding behind the ''banter'' defence.* Was anybody found guilty of abusing Tom? I can''t remember entirely but I thought nothing came of this.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

While you make some very good points Shack I go back to what I posted earlier. Liverpool are amongst the worst if not the worst for this type of thing. They don''t even respect the National Anthem when they play at Wembley. Like I said, I''d be all in favour of these chants disappearing. There is no place for them in todays game. But the worst offenders are Liverpool themselves. It IS always them. While it is a minority they always overstep the mark more than any other club. If you really think we''re all as bad as eachother can you point me to an incident where Norwich or any other club''s fans tried to overturn an ambulance taking a badly injured footballer to hospital?

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

"The thing with the whold ''Scouse victim'' chant is that it is this exact wider public perception that allowed police/media/politicians to paint Liverpool fans as guilty at Hillsborough. You only have to look at the responses to threads discussing the subject on here, a relatively small group of Norwich fans, to see how they got away with it for so long."

 

That is very misleading to put it mildly. I don''t recall any supposed victim status before Hillsborough, though I do know that within football many were aware of what happened at Heysel and also would have been aware of Liverpool fans turning up to games elsewhere en masse just before kick off, and trying to get in without paying. Outside of football I suspect there was no particular indentification of one club other that what was screened on TV  - ''we'' were all the same.

 

Yes there were dreadful mistakes made during and after the deaths. And yes it is clear that those who did have tickets and were in the ground waiting for the game, were those that who were killed (not that anyone deserved to be killed, irrespective of their behaviour on that day). But I suspect the pendulem has now swung very far the other way - if only so that a bit of contrition and mass grief can be a means of lancing this particular boil

 

Because of the deaths this will always be a very emotive subject, however it doesn''t need more emotion added to it by misrepresenting what happened around the event at the time.