Ricardo's report v Liverpool

[ricardo 7,380]

Ricardo''s first remark upon seeing the team sheet was, "No Holty, no Wes No points". It was quickly to be proved right as hardly had the applause for Bondy died down when Liverpool moved into the lead . The City central defence had more holes than a string vest and Suarez was given time to write his memoirs before striking a low drive past Ruddy. When the whole ethos of your game is to keep things tight plan "A" flies straight out of the windowCity to their credit kept their heads up and in the 8th minute only Reina''s legs kept Jacko off the score sheet. Liverpool however were playing with a lot of control although some may say they spent too much time at the Emlyn Hughes school of time wasting. On 25 mins City fashioned a real chance. Jacko''s persistence earned a corner and eventually the ball came in for Moro to head back only for Jacko''s volley to rise only a foot over. At one down we were still in the game although Ruddy was the busier keeper. Suarez missed a great chance when through one one but within seconds City gifted him a second bite at the cherry when Turner was caught daydreaming despite 20k voices warning him of the danger. It was suicidal defending and City went in at the half with the game looking beyond them.It was an obvious move to bring Holt immediately and but nobody expected the lively Jacko to be the one to make way. However within seconds City should have had one back as Moro cut in on the right and from his cross Surman''s volley looked goal bound until it hit a City player on the line. The ball was quickly whipped down the other end where Suarez was given too much space to find Sahin who netted from close range. Again City came back but both Surman and Holt failed to find the target when only 6 yards out. Suarez showed how it should be done when he curled a shot round Ruddy for number four.City got a bit scruffy after that and although Wes came on it was far too late. Moro reduced arrears when Reina fumbled but Liverpool were now in cruise control and the gap in class was there for all to see. It wasn''t pretty and Ricardo had flashbacks of the Colchester debacle as Gerrards shot was luckily diverted wide of Ruddy for number five. All that was left it seemed was to pray for the final whistle before things got worse but it was City who had the final word when Holt went clear on the left and shot past Reina into the far corner for a consolation.Oh dear, what to say about it. I think we started with the wrong team and when plan "A" fell apart we had no fallback. The central defence was utterly dismal and lost the game for us before it had hardly started. If these two are better than Whitbread and Ward or even Bennett and Ward I'''' run round the ground in my underpants with Snowy the cat on my head. It was a bit like the Roeder days when you go two down and the game is over before half-time. The only small consolation to be drawn is that both goal-less strikers got on the score-sheet. Apart from that it is very hard to find anything positive to say. One thing is certain, its gonna be a long hard winter.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="ricardo"]If these two are better than Whitbread and Ward or even Bennett and Ward

I'''' run round the ground in my underpants with Snowy the cat on my

head.[/quote][:D] I''d leave the armchair for that.

[Power Hamster 0]

Statistics time - in the last 5 league games played at Carrow Road, Norwich City have scored 5 goals. And Luis Suarez has scored 6....[:''(]

[ROBFLECK 132]

With this manager and these players performing the way they are we are going down

[York Canary 28]

Thanks for that report Ricardo, it''s the only one I could bear to read right now.I was sat with my friends (who are brothers and both support Liverpool) and they politely reminded me that ''Norwich seem to be getting a bit smashed at the moment'' when we were 4-1 down to which I responded rather aggressively. Like I need someone to tell me that we''re getting smashed at 4-1 down at home?! Anyway..your report actually makes me feel slightly better in the sense that it highlights Turner as a weakness and that we still created some decent chances. The worrying thing of course is that we can''t score most of the chances and that Turner is indeed in the team at present! lol. I just hope Bassong is back quick, Turner is left in the reserves and Holt/Moro keep scoring now..please!

[ricardo 7,380]

[quote user="York Canary"]Thanks for that report Ricardo, it''s the only one I could bear to read right now.I was sat with my friends (who are brothers and both support Liverpool) and they politely reminded me that ''Norwich seem to be getting a bit smashed at the moment'' when we were 4-1 down to which I responded rather aggressively. Like I need someone to tell me that we''re getting smashed at 4-1 down at home?! Anyway..your report actually makes me feel slightly better in the sense that it highlights Turner as a weakness and that we still created some decent chances. The worrying thing of course is that we can''t score most of the chances and that Turner is indeed in the team at present! lol. I just hope Bassong is back quick, Turner is left in the reserves and Holt/Moro keep scoring now..please![/quote]We had 10 shots 7 on targetLiverpool 10 shots 6 on target.No need to guess where the quality is missing.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

This was the strangest match experience I can remember because for long periods it wasn''t a competitive match as Liverpool were given so much possession and space they looked bemused.

We played in spurts and Liverpool''s average defence was shown up for what it is but once again we failed to convert, even hitting our own player on the line.

Liverpool, on the other hand, have one danger man to mark and we failed to do so.

And to cap it all Liverpool scored at all the right times.

When I saw the team sheet, like Ricardo I thought, where are the chances going to come from? We play an underachieving side full of kids and with a leaky defence and present so little threat they can get onto the front foot.

No Fox amongst the subs, Wes on the bench after showing so much recent spark and running and a returning to form Holt benched too.

Garrido took today to have an uncharacteristically poor game. Suarez did what Ba did last week and got between our centre backs (note how close Bassonf sticks to Barnett) and Turner made me wonder why we needed him over Ayala, Bennett or Whitbread? Russ Martin did okay but had a running argument with Snodgrass so something wasn''t going to plan there.

Howson was anonymous; Johnson worked his socks off and never let his head drop. One only needs to play though and the other central midfield needs to be able to pass. It has to be Fox and Johnson.

We lack width with a left footed winger on the right and Surman on the left who isn''t a winger. I hope Pilks is fit soon and Benno needs to replace Snodgrass so we can finally get crosses in.

Moro was screaming for early balls in and this seldom happened. We move the ball forward so slowly we never turn defenders. We have to get defenders running back towards their own goal.

For me, Hughton screwed up the selection and didn''t set out to put Liberpool under any pressure in a game we needed to win. A Liverpool side under pressure will not play with this kind of swagger.

Hughton also screwed up the squad selection. Bassong, Tettey and Garrido are good players but Snodgrass wasn''t a priority; Turner is money spent on no better than we had; Kane was a last minute panic buy (get the forwards in first) and Vaughan should never have been released to have Martin replace him.

I wonder too about the quality of our coaching staff. Never mind PL, Cully appears to be head and shoulders above his replacements.

Lambert showed he COULD incorporate Wes; Hughton just looks for why he cannot. I don''t cafe if CH is a nice man beloved of Geordies and Brummies, he is going to have to find a ruthless streak soon and have the balls to go for it in games.

Why did Gerrard leave the pitch in a Norwich shirt? It seemed a generous gesture to me.

Suarez might be aggravating but he was alive to everything and should have had a penalty but for his reputation I suspect. I wish our players were half as alert.

That said, the only one who was got taken off at half time.

[Gingerpele 0]

Good posts Ricardo and Rudolph.

[Dubai Mark 0]

From some of the other post match subject headings, this will be the only post match post I shall read as I just know that your report will be a decent read and fair, which it is.

I too thought exactly the same when I saw the team, was actually shocked Holt in particular wasnt starting and also thought Hoolahan was suited for this match.

After what I thought were four pretty decent defensive displays, this was just the opposite, sure we missed Bassong big time but I thought the back four were all shocking to be honest. Barnett without Bassong is a different player, Turner is a similar type of player to Ward so it was obvious (wasnt it CH?) that he would end up with the same end result against Suarez, Garrido played like he was on drugs and I really dont think one of my favourites Russell Martin had much of a game either.

The midfield for some reason looked like they hadnt played together before, very odd, and offered little protection to the back four despite Bradley''s efforts.

Up front I actually thought Jackson when he was given the ball caused problems, the opposite to Morison....but he notched which I guess made it the right decision. Chuffed Holt scored...as he will do throught this very challenging season....if he that is.

Anyway, I am so disappointed because I really thought that was an average Liverpool side (yes, Im serious) who we stood off and let play.

Hving also watched the Arsenal and Manure matched today, I am now changing my mind about how we should play, and really now feel that we should play one up front wherever possible and would like to see Hoolahan start behind Holty, this is despite my criticism of this formation previously.

OTBC, sure its going to be a tough season..........we''ve known that all along....and are in for a hell of a ride....OTBC 

 

 

 

  

 

[The Great Drinkell 50]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]This was the strangest match experience I can remember because for long periods it wasn''t a competitive match as Liverpool were given so much possession and space they looked bemused. We played in spurts and Liverpool''s average defence was shown up for what it is but once again we failed to convert, even hitting our own player on the line. Liverpool, on the other hand, have one danger man to mark and we failed to do so. And to cap it all Liverpool scored at all the right times. When I saw the team sheet, like Ricardo I thought, where are the chances going to come from? We play an underachieving side full of kids and with a leaky defence and present so little threat they can get onto the front foot. No Fox amongst the subs, Wes on the bench after showing so much recent spark and running and a returning to form Holt benched too. Garrido took today to have an uncharacteristically poor game. Suarez did what Ba did last week and got between our centre backs (note how close Bassonf sticks to Barnett) and Turner made me wonder why we needed him over Ayala, Bennett or Whitbread? Russ Martin did okay but had a running argument with Snodgrass so something wasn''t going to plan there. Howson was anonymous; Johnson worked his socks off and never let his head drop. One only needs to play though and the other central midfield needs to be able to pass. It has to be Fox and Johnson. We lack width with a left footed winger on the right and Surman on the left who isn''t a winger. I hope Pilks is fit soon and Benno needs to replace Snodgrass so we can finally get crosses in. Moro was screaming for early balls in and this seldom happened. We move the ball forward so slowly we never turn defenders. We have to get defenders running back towards their own goal. For me, Hughton screwed up the selection and didn''t set out to put Liberpool under any pressure in a game we needed to win. A Liverpool side under pressure will not play with this kind of swagger. Hughton also screwed up the squad selection. Bassong, Tettey and Garrido are good players but Snodgrass wasn''t a priority; Turner is money spent on no better than we had; Kane was a last minute panic buy (get the forwards in first) and Vaughan should never have been released to have Martin replace him. I wonder too about the quality of our coaching staff. Never mind PL, Cully appears to be head and shoulders above his replacements. Lambert showed he COULD incorporate Wes; Hughton just looks for why he cannot. I don''t cafe if CH is a nice man beloved of Geordies and Brummies, he is going to have to find a ruthless streak soon and have the balls to go for it in games. Why did Gerrard leave the pitch in a Norwich shirt? It seemed a generous gesture to me. Suarez might be aggravating but he was alive to everything and should have had a penalty but for his reputation I suspect. I wish our players were half as alert. That said, the only one who was got taken off at half time.[/quote]

Absoluteley spot on. IMO we need to break up the yorkshire 3 at times it''s like watching kids who only want to pass to there mates..

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]We had 10 shots 7 on targetLiverpool 10 shots 6 on target.No need to guess where the quality is missing.[/quote]

Defenders giving away easy chances? Midfield not creating clear cut chances?

Scoring two goals at home is not bad. Letting in 5 is terrible. Sadly these stats give away how easily we got beat today by a far better side who controlled te midfield and tore the defense apart.

[YankeeCanary 0]

PRESSING

To Chris Hughton ( with respect ):

Chris, go back and take a look at the videos of last season''s games that you apparently viewed after your appointment and while you were waiting for the players to return for pre-season training. Chris, do you notice how the Norwich players pressed last year when the opposition had the ball? Even the majority of the matches we lost. Then I would also pick up a video of the recent Champions league match between Real Madrid and Manchester City. You only need to watch the first half in that one Chris. Real Madrid provided a masterclass example of how to press when not in possession of the ball. Now, Chris, somewhere between those two levels is what the objective is for your players if you want to manage a team that is able to maintain a Premiership level one season after another. Now, of course, that''s not your immediate concern. Survival this season is. Above all, for the club but , secondarily, for yourself. I recognise your survival may be in graver danger in the nearer term.

The next thing I would do, Chris, is pick up the phone to Ron Saunders, agree to meet him ( anywhere, anytime ), show him the videos of the Fulham and Liverpool games, in particular, so that he can see what level of running the players do for you currently. Don''t leave that meeting until Ron has convinced you how to go about ensuring every single one of the players in your squad would meet the fitness level Ron would require as manager. Further, despite your respective ages, you and your assistants should also aspire to that level to set an example for the players. You look like a fit person Chris so should be able to handle it. If your assistants are too portly and comfortable then get shot of them. This is no level for nice guys, who we know usually finish last. The stakes are too high.

 

The reason the aforementioned is most important, Chris ( in my humble opinion ) is because you are not going to be blessed with the quality you need as a manager of a club like Norwich City in order to stay in this division. No, survival will more depend upon all of your players ( to a man ) being prepared to fight for the ball and each other in this manner. Now, the likelihood is that during the next few weeks Norwich will be rooted to the bottom of the division which is very similar to the trajectory we were on in 2004/05. I''m sure Mr. McNally is also drawing your attention to what''s important. Undoubtedly, he will point out to you that everyone ( I repeat, that''s everyone Chris ) already knows what the majority of this squad is capable of. It has already been proven. Good luck Chris. Whether you take the actions suggested here or something even more cutting, it''s clear that a dramatic change is required. More of what you have been sharing with the players to date is not required. Your choice ( currently ).

[Legend Iwan 30]

A good read, Ricardo.

On the matter of the Yorkshire three, could it not be that because they played so well early on they did not warrant being out of the starting lineup, and by the time their performances declined the players who would take their place are either out injured or returning to full fitness?

[Phillip J Fry 0]

Does anyone have any idea where we go from here? Because I just don''t know what a reasonable course of action is.

[Jules 0]

Just wondering whether it''s worth looking at the results in both halves. We lost the 1st half 0-2 (Liverpool should have had a penalty as well) but the 2nd half result was 2-3. When we actually had to come out of our shell and have a crack in the second half we scored two goals - twice our total amount this season - and Wes, Holt and Morro were all on the field. We broke forward with more pace and showed that the Liverpool defence were actually vulnerable. This was more like the gung-ho style of footie that we played under Lambert last season and the players seemed more at home with it. One of the Liverpool goals in the second half was a result of a wicked deflection which took it past Ruddy.

I do think that the result would have been quite different with Bassong back in the defence. Turner was directly responsible for several of the goals and (as I think has been mentioned in another thread) without Bassong next to him Barnett looked more like the player that Lambert dropped last season.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

I think Barnett completely lacked confidence in what was stood next to him.  He was probably 5 hit scared.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,429]

View from the upper barclay - there a few very noticable differences from last year.

1. We are very narrow. Surman and Snodgrass sit inside, even when we have the ball. Even though we at times were narrow with the diamond with Lambert the full backs were encouraged to bomb on. Not any more. We dodnt make the pitch as big as we used to.

2. Morison played in front of Jackson. Last year when we had two up front, Holt or Morison would play behind to enable Jackson to run on to the flick. Today made no sense. Jackson was all over the park.

3. We do not move the ball forward with the tempo we did last year. At times we played longer passes earlier but under CH we play significantly more sideways passes.

4. Our pressing, as mentioned earlier, is nowhere near what it was. The opposition have more time on the ball.

We are now looking like a collection of individuals out of their depth. This system is strangling attacking players. Howson is a great example of a player under Lambert who looked as if he may score reguarly and did get a few. I''m not sure he has had a shot this year?

We needed to bring in a manager who plays in a similar style to PL, to keep the momentum of the current crop of players. As it is CH has changed the system for the existing players, and added a few that aren''t any better (and in Turners case a hell of a lot worse) than what we had.

 

 

 

[fonejacker 0]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]This was the strangest match experience I can remember because for long periods it wasn''t a competitive match as Liverpool were given so much possession and space they looked bemused.[/quote]This.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

Great posts from Rickyyyy, Yankee and Beardyyy[Y]

 

I''m always disappointed if Wes doesn''t start. I''m always disappointed if Holty doesn''t start. Today we started neither. Both these players are team players, can make things happen in the final third, and are potential match winners. They also play well together and football is after all a team game. I didn''t think any of our players played well together today. In fact they played like 11 strangers. Especially the spine of the side. Turner and Barnett looked an awful partnership. As did Morison and Jackson. Howson and Johnson weren''t much better either. And that''s where we lost the game. When Holty came on we improved up front. But when Wes came on he wasn''t placed to effect. For me he may as well be in the dug out as wide on the left.

 

I don''t like slating individual players too much. I''ve been caught out before, most recently with Nelson in our league one season. I thought he was the worst centreback I''d ever seen play for Norwich. And he was beside the worst centreback many others though had ever played for Norwich. But once Doc and Nelly started to play together they became a rock for us that season. I am struggling to see Turner proving me wrong though. I was disappointed by him all game. Was directly at fault for at least couple of goals but what I found unforgiveable was when he went to ground for the 4th(?) goal he stayed down and watched Suarez cross the ball. If he wants to sit and watch the game he needs to buy a seat in the stands. Barnett looked a different player without Bassong who is obviously key. Hopefully he will be fit soon and when he is I would be tempted to put Ryan Bennett in beside him. At least as a young player he would hopefully learn from mistakes, a positive that can''t be said about Turner.

 

So for me never play today''s central partnerships again. They just don''t work.

 

 

[Robertkbradley 0]

Just watching MOTD and it''s gratifying to be able to see it in HD as it afforded me a fine view of the faces of the troglodytes, marsh gnomes, toothy witches and all round epsilons that comprise the Norwich fanbase giving Suarez the old *STARRED OUT* hand gesture after he missed an easy chance, Norwich glee swiftly turning to impotent anger after he nicks the ball from the Keystone canaries in defence and slots it away with aplomb. You low rent tossers. 

Even better was the way crowd anger gave way to pathetic bafflement and sad, sad frowns as we put away our third, fourth and fifth. 

Luis Suarez you know what you are. 

Norwich fans you know what you are. 

[kdncfc 27]

Last season against Liverpool under Lambert we were woeful and barely had a shot on goal - today under Hughton we were woeful but with better finishing we could easily have scored another 2 or 3 ourselves.  Last season it was Elliot Ward with a demonstration of how not to defend against Suarez - this time it was tugboat Turner who managed to make life easy for him .Looked like we couldn''t be arsed from the first whistle, Liverpools passing was slick but if we''d have got in their faces from the start we could have got something from that game.Wanted Hughton as manager but the more I see of us the more I question whether he''s the man for the job, problem is we''ve been down the road of changing the manager every 5 minutes and look where that got us.We are going to regret not investing in a striker in the summer.

[ZLF 273]

apart from ruddy there was not an area of the pitch that impressed

- up front was the least worrying - which is the first time we can say that this season; It was still not good though, just not as bad as teh defence or midfield. in the first half we had chances but once again failed to make them count; jackson volley was not even on target and he strayed offside too often; morison was more effective but honestly did not look like scoring. Both our goals came after the match was lost and liverpool switched off and had defensive lapses - both finally nice finishes but howson ball would be cut out in the other 99 attempts from 100 for holts and moro closed down. None of the three truly worried liverpool so that remains a concern, but at least our best strikers have finally scored - fingers crossed they both kick on from that - the one tiny glimmer of hope.

- midfield. what do howson, johnson and snodgrass have to do to be subbed? The central pair were again abysmal and too often anonymous. Aprt from Spurs they have not shone, while last years sta fox cant even make the bench and tettey remains unused. Howson has started so slowly and needs to be rested. The exclusion of Wessi after his MOTM performance last week was simply bewildering (made even more stark by the lack of creativity seen yesterday) as was hiding him on the flank - where elliott bennett was the better option. The central pair have played every minute of every prem game and are getting less effective rather than better. If we want to stop this slide this is where we start. Fox keeps the ball, tettey, who knows but we know pilkington and bennett are effective in the prem. Change is a must

Defenders - oh dear - garrido had an off day, martin too (not closing down suarez for his third)) barnett shaken and turner - well I cant even start. The influence of bassong can not be understated - two games without him - 10 goals conceeded. As nutty says its about partnerships - Barnett and bassong works as they click. Turner has 11 conceded in 3 appearances, both with bennett and barnett. He has to be dropped - he is costing us goals faster than de laet last season and we dont have time for him to get up to speed. Pray Bassong is fit - for the only remaining untried partnership is now bennett and barnett. Turner can not start next time.

We now have just three prem wins in 20, and hughton has not won in 11 prem games. Only 1 team has conceded more goals and only 1 team has scored fewer and we are in the bottom three because we deserve to be. These are facts and loud alarm bells are ringing.

However I do think we have the resources to move quickly up the table. CH needs to ensure he gets the most out of them, otherwise this will continue to be a very tough season.

Next game? Pray for Bassong, change the central midfield, wessi back as the fulcrum in a 5 man midfield and draw straws for the least ineffective striker slot...

[The Doc 0]

[quote user="Gareth"]Does anyone have any idea where we go from here? Because I just don''t know what a reasonable course of action is.[/quote]

Our only saving grace is some strength in midfield depth. Time for Hughton to show us some ruthlessness next game. We have nothing to lose but pride I would try a complete midfield makeover fitness allowing:

Ruddy

Martin Bassong(R Bennett) Barnett Garrido

E Bennett Tettey Fox Pilks

Wes

Holt

Butterfield and Jackson as super subs to change things if needed

442 is suicide against the top teams particularly without proper wingers or any creativity in the midfield.