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Elliot Ward v Michael Turner

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I fail to see the reason why we signed Michael Turner, from what I have seen he''s no better than Elliot Ward.  With Ward outside the our premier league squad of 25 and turner there instead, to me we have wasted the money we used to buyt him on and the wages we are paying.  The whole thing is heightened by the fact we failed to sign a striker, an area we are short on.

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i hope your''e not basing this on Ward''s performance vs a dreadful Doncaster?........how ever bad you think Turner has been (which I think has been grossly over exaggerated), he hasnt put in a performance such as the one Ward did vs Liverpool in April!

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GJL I Both agree and disagree with ya im afraid. I definately agree that no one should look at the performance against donny as a bench mark for getting in the 25 prem team, least of all ward who i feel still has a little bit to prove before hes seen as prem quality in my eyes, consistency seems to be an issue, as i thought when he came back from injury last season, he started out looking pretty awsome. But i have to disagree with what you say about Turner, his performance against fulham was shocking for a CB whos been playing in the prem for a while now, schoolboy errors and clearly loosing his head because of them (and mayby the barrage of goals that were going in behind him had a little somthing to do with that also) Also after his coming on for bassong at newcastle, he was essentially the guy in our defensive line slacking out and playing Ba onside,now im not saying the goal was entirely his fault, you could also say he was on the spot a bit after coming on after 5 minutes unexpectedly, but again these things are somthing a player who has been playing profesionally for about 10 years and playing in the prem since 08 should be dealing with. Please dont see this as me writing him off though, i think technically hes a very good defender, just think he needs to apply himself more and make use of any time he gets on the pitch to play out of his skin, weve got real competetion in the squad now and ALL of the players performences, need to mirror their want to play premier league football in a yellow shirt every weekend.

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Now I am neither defending the defender, nor saying he wasn''t worth the money.

but some players take time to get settled in with the club, from what I''ve heard bassong is a real easy going person (to his team mates) and almost all players he has played with that have spoken about him speak highly of him, he also had hughton when he was at spurs.

Snoddy already knew johnson and howson, and I''m sure Drury spoke highly of club in their short term together at leeds.

Garrido is just amazing, settled in very fast.

we are yet to see Butterfield, Tettey, and Whittaker, or even Bunn with the first team, so no idea there.

I just think 2 league appearances with the team is a bit early to say ''good or bad purchase.''

If he breaks in to the team this season, then great! if he is used as an alternative for rested/injured defenders, that;s good too, it means Barnett and bassong are doing great.

if he isn''t used much at all this season, or used as a ''worst case scenario'' defender, then we can officially call him a flop buy.

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[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]Add Bunn to that.[/quote]

I think Bunn was a good buy, I believe there is still time for Rudd or Steer to go out on loan? if they do then Bunn should be a suitable replacement for Ruddy incase of injury/suspension. and Rudd may or may not be better, but to develop Rudd he needs first team experience.

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If you had seen some of Turner''s passing at Newcastle, you would have seen that his distribution is better than Wards''s. I think Ward is a good player still, but Turner has that extra bit of quaility which we need.    Too many players who give the ball away cheaply has been a problem.   So far this season the main culprit has been Johnson - but he is showing signs of improvement.  

The defence needs to be organised - but that is something that Hughton appears to be better at  than previous managers - and that''s not to say we are being more defensive as a team - just better organised at the back.   Turner may need to learn more about the players he is playing with, but on the whole I think he is a useful player in  the  squad.

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Turner had a shocking debut against Fulham but that must be put in perspective. The whole team had an off day at Craven Cottage and you can''t write someone off based on one performance.

He came in against Newcastle and had a solid game. Yes, he was caught out of position for the goal but like others have noted he would not have been expected to be on the pitch and hadn''t had time to adjust to the game.

At this time it looks like Bassong is definitely the strongest defender but look across to his current partner in defence and you will see a player that many, including myself admittely, has written off completely.

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Have we loaned out Rudd & Stear? If not then why on earth did we waste money in Bunn?

 

As for Turner, I said at the time of the signing he was another Ward, solid defender with a mistake a match in him, no real class but would do the job asked to his full ability! Again we have to buy within our profile, money and player, so Turner is the kind of defender who we can attract and afford for now.

 

Ward had his chance and at least Truner has had more premiership experience recently so should on paper be the better choice of the two, but not my first choice to start and way behind moving Martin into the centre or starting with young Bennett now Bassong is injured.

 

BUT our two CB in Bassong and Barnett have been outstanding and look the business, fingers crossed for Bassong to get fit and stay fit.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]i hope your''e not basing this on Ward''s performance vs a dreadful Doncaster?........how ever bad you think Turner has been (which I think has been grossly over exaggerated), he hasnt put in a performance such as the one Ward did vs Liverpool in April![/quote]

Are people ever going to move on from that Liverpool game?

 

Ward got mugged by a £20m world class forward who terrorises more established Premier League defenders every week. Ryan Bennett was also rubbish in that game too but fortunately for him Suarez''s inconsistent finishing let him off the hook.

 

His good games for Norwich City far outweigh his bad ones and he deserves a bit better than people holding that one game against him. Do you remember that he played in our glorious 1-2 win at Spurs? That kind of thing seems to get forgotten pretty quickly and conveniently.

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Turner has had an inauspicious start - but he also has over 100 games experince in the Premier League and was Sunderland''s most used defender last year. He is obviously a good player, but is finding it a little hard to fit into the team at the moment - he will get his chance with injuries/suspensions bound to happen and we can all be glad we have such an able back up player. Despite the one mistake against Newcastle, he had a very solid game after that an meant Norwich didn''t feel the lose of their best defender so early in the game.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]i hope your''e not basing this on Ward''s performance vs a dreadful Doncaster?........how ever bad you think Turner has been (which I think has been grossly over exaggerated), he hasnt put in a performance such as the one Ward did vs Liverpool in April![/quote]

I disagree, Turner was culpable and terrible against Fulham, looked a complete shambles, and was at fault for Newcastles goal, albeit only being on 5 mins.

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[quote user="ricardo"]I''m probably one of the few people who thought leaving Wardy out of our squad was a bad thing.

Tin hat on.[;)]
[/quote]

 

Are you Smudger in disguise Ricardo???

 

Turner has struggled to impress me so far,  but he was better the longer the game went on at newcastle,  and better than Ward who has too many bad games for the good ones for me.   I think Bassong has brought the best out of barnett and shown the limitations of ward whitbread etc.   I would like to see him partner bennett at somestage.

 

Turner a waste of money?   Not for me - but as yet I would not want him starting!  

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]i hope your''e not basing this on Ward''s performance vs a dreadful Doncaster?........how ever bad you think Turner has been (which I think has been grossly over exaggerated), he hasnt put in a performance such as the one Ward did vs Liverpool in April![/quote]

Are people ever going to move on from that Liverpool game?

 

Ward got mugged by a £20m world class forward who terrorises more established Premier League defenders every week. Ryan Bennett was also rubbish in that game too but fortunately for him Suarez''s inconsistent finishing let him off the hook.

 

His good games for Norwich City far outweigh his bad ones and he deserves a bit better than people holding that one game against him. Do you remember that he played in our glorious 1-2 win at Spurs? That kind of thing seems to get forgotten pretty quickly and conveniently.

[/quote]

well serveral people seem to want to hang Turner out to dry off the back of one game at Fulham ?!?

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]i hope your''e not basing this on Ward''s performance vs a dreadful Doncaster?........how ever bad you think Turner has been (which I think has been grossly over exaggerated), he hasnt put in a performance such as the one Ward did vs Liverpool in April![/quote]

Are people ever going to move on from that Liverpool game?

 

Ward got mugged by a £20m world class forward who terrorises more established Premier League defenders every week. Ryan Bennett was also rubbish in that game too but fortunately for him Suarez''s inconsistent finishing let him off the hook.

 

His good games for Norwich City far outweigh his bad ones and he deserves a bit better than people holding that one game against him. Do you remember that he played in our glorious 1-2 win at Spurs? That kind of thing seems to get forgotten pretty quickly and conveniently.

[/quote]

well serveral people seem to want to hang Turner out to dry off the back of one game at Fulham ?!?

[/quote]

Well he was rubbish in that game and you know what they say about first impressions.

 

Thing is that Turner wasn''t particularly convincing in pre season and then he was obviously woeful at Fulham, so he''s got off to a bad start. However, he has shown himself to be a good player in the past so I hope he can turn it around.

 

Ryan Bennett worries me more than Michael Turner does.

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]i hope your''e not basing this on Ward''s performance vs a dreadful Doncaster?........how ever bad you think Turner has been (which I think has been grossly over exaggerated), he hasnt put in a performance such as the one Ward did vs Liverpool in April![/quote]

Are people ever going to move on from that Liverpool game?

 

Ward got mugged by a £20m world class forward who terrorises more established Premier League defenders every week. Ryan Bennett was also rubbish in that game too but fortunately for him Suarez''s inconsistent finishing let him off the hook.

 

His good games for Norwich City far outweigh his bad ones and he deserves a bit better than people holding that one game against him. Do you remember that he played in our glorious 1-2 win at Spurs? That kind of thing seems to get forgotten pretty quickly and conveniently.

[/quote]He didn''t get mugged at all. He made 2 bad errors that resulted in goals. Admittedly, the finishing after those errors was special, but had he actually made that tackle on the touchline, or not completely missed the ball on the halfway line, those chances wouldn''t have come about. In fact, the person that got mugged in that game was David Fox, by Gerrard, which also resulted in a goal.None the less, Ward had been threatening a performance like that since he first came back into the team. He made the odd great challenge, preventing goal scoring chances,  but often passed directly to the other team in his own hal, amongst other unforced errors.The whole team was poor that day, but Ward''s performance really stood out.My gut feeling is that Turner is less error prone than Ward. Yes, he played Ba onside but he was tracking the run of Cisse. He could have let him run offside, but the lack of tracking on Ba was equally bad. Other than that I can''t remember any glaring errors.

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[quote user="QHcanary"]

My gut feeling is that Turner is less error prone than Ward. Yes, he played Ba onside but he was tracking the run of Cisse. He could have let him run offside, but the lack of tracking on Ba was equally bad. Other than that I can''t remember any glaring errors.[/quote]Hope that you are only referring to the Newcastle game and not the Fulham one?

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All the recent comments have been about the Newcastle game. At Fulham he was not alone in having a bad game, hence the numerous changes made, including him.

At Newcastle Ba was left with no defender within five yards of him even though he was further forward than any other attacker. To have let him run offside would have meant that Cisse would have been in an enviable position, attacking the defence, which was square with Turner having no cover, at pace. Simply put Cisse would not have made the pass if he had the chance to run at a square defence with no cover that he was attacking at pace. He would have used his pace to beat that square defence and run in on goal.

Perhaps Turner should have covered Ba as well as tracking the run of Cisse! He seems to be getting all the blame when, in fact, the problem started further up the field, leaving the defence short of numbers.

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I''ve never been convinced of Ward even in the Championship. As has been suggested Turner has not had the best of starts so we need to see a few more games to make judgement. Personally, I would support Hughton on this one.

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[quote user="ricardo"]I''m probably one of the few people who thought leaving Wardy out of our squad was a bad thing.Tin hat on.[;)][/quote]

Nope, I am with you on that.

The only real problem I ever saw with Ward was his lack of pace. But then paired up with the right players around him that wouldn''t be an issue.

His distribution is better than Bennetts and Barnetts from what I have seen - but he obviously isn''t as quick. However he is far more potent going forward for set pieces etc.

Another factor is that he is probably short of match fitness having missed a large chunk of last season and a bit of pre-season.

Turner is certainly taking a bit of time to settle but maybe he''ll get a shout today if Bassong isn''t fit.

Bassong is a steal though, if he cost the circa £3million rumoured. He has the pace, strength and distribution. He is a completely different calibre of player than we had. I think Garrido is the same to a certain extent.

As for Bunn - very few clubs opperate at this level without three keepers to choose from. Hughton obviously wants the younger keepers to get some experience so sending one or even both of them out with recall options is a great oppertunity for them. Bunn was needed as cover for that to be able to happen.

Otherwise you are looking at the likes of Jarvis who was allowed to languish in the reserves and stagnate never to forfill his early potential.

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[quote user="Thumbelina"][quote user="QHcanary"]

My gut feeling is that Turner is less error prone than Ward. Yes, he played Ba onside but he was tracking the run of Cisse. He could have let him run offside, but the lack of tracking on Ba was equally bad. Other than that I can''t remember any glaring errors.[/quote]Hope that you are only referring to the Newcastle game and not the Fulham one?

[/quote]I think the Fulham game can be viewed as a statistical outlier for the whole team, so yes, I''m talking about the Newcastle game.

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[quote user="ricardo"]I''m probably one of the few people who thought leaving Wardy out of our squad was a bad thing.

Tin hat on.[;)][/quote]

I think it''s good to share the scapegoat duties around a bit, so leaving Ward out was a smart move.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"]I think it''s good to share the scapegoat duties around a bit, so leaving Ward out was a smart move.[/quote]So who should we pick on next then?  Turner and Holt looking good bets to take over from Ward and Morison I think.

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"I''d rather have Billy Elliott or Tina Turner."

Even with Tina Turners wide legs she wouldn''t get nutmegged as much! This thread should have been titled ''A blind one legged donkey vs Turner''

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