Birmingham fan in peace

[kayv1875 0]

Can we have Hughton back please :)?

I note there''s some discontent with how you''ve started off, which is understandable, if a little unfair if I may say. I do wonder, however, if you''re suffering a similar scenario to us, in that your new manager isn''t the right fit for your current team.

Lambert did an absolutely unbelievable job last season with probably the weakest squad in the division - possibly even the weakest squad the league has seen for some years. He got goals and performances out of middling Championship players (Morison in particular) and seemed to have a bespoke game plan for every match.

By contrast, Hughton is a quite traditional 4-4-2 man, with a traditional way of playing (overlapping full-backs, crosses in) that is easily overcome if teams keep the ball off you and pack the middle.

It''s almost as if, by virtue of being a coach and not manager for most of his career, and thus not being directly exposed to the progression of modern football, he''s stuck in quite a prosaic and antiquated mindset.

He can also be a bit naive - see our pathetic performance in the away leg in the playoffs where the objective seemed to be to lose by one goal on the proviso that we''d win the home game. Last season we played decent football, scored lots of goals, but were a real soft touch away and lost the greatest number of points from winning positions of any team in any division. If we''d have hung on to even half of them we''d have been champions.

I thought his summer signings were decent - for a Championship team. Snodgrass was never going to cut it at the top level, he''s just too slow; and Hughton didn''t seem to address your relative lack of pace.

I would still give him time - he''s supposedly a fantastic coach and motivator, and our players all loved him - but I wonder if this is just a case of the wrong man at the wrong time; or in fact if anyone could have done the job that Lambert did with your squad. If you do get rid, we''d be delighted to have him back; he presided over a very, very difficult period for us with dignity and we became quite fond of each other. It''s a shame he decided that a sideways move was the only option available to him.

Anyway: thoughts?

Best of luck to Chris and yourselves for the rest of the season.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

Yup.Take him. Straight swap no compo. BUT you have to have his back room staff too.

[kayv1875 0]

Are you sure? You realise you have the best goalkeeping coach in the country?

It''s a deal - I''ll send Lee down to your end post-haste.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

Done.Our keeper seemed more confident last year anyway when he wasn''t just doing an extra 90 min shot stopping session every week!

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="kayv1875"]Can we have Hughton back please :)?

I note there''s some discontent with how you''ve started off, which is understandable, if a little unfair if I may say. I do wonder, however, if you''re suffering a similar scenario to us, in that your new manager isn''t the right fit for your current team.

Lambert did an absolutely unbelievable job last season with probably the weakest squad in the division - possibly even the weakest squad the league has seen for some years. He got goals and performances out of middling Championship players (Morison in particular) and seemed to have a bespoke game plan for every match.

By contrast, Hughton is a quite traditional 4-4-2 man, with a traditional way of playing (overlapping full-backs, crosses in) that is easily overcome if teams keep the ball off you and pack the middle.

It''s almost as if, by virtue of being a coach and not manager for most of his career, and thus not being directly exposed to the progression of modern football, he''s stuck in quite a prosaic and antiquated mindset.

He can also be a bit naive - see our pathetic performance in the away leg in the playoffs where the objective seemed to be to lose by one goal on the proviso that we''d win the home game. Last season we played decent football, scored lots of goals, but were a real soft touch away and lost the greatest number of points from winning positions of any team in any division. If we''d have hung on to even half of them we''d have been champions.

I thought his summer signings were decent - for a Championship team. Snodgrass was never going to cut it at the top level, he''s just too slow; and Hughton didn''t seem to address your relative lack of pace.

I would still give him time - he''s supposedly a fantastic coach and motivator, and our players all loved him - but I wonder if this is just a case of the wrong man at the wrong time; or in fact if anyone could have done the job that Lambert did with your squad. If you do get rid, we''d be delighted to have him back; he presided over a very, very difficult period for us with dignity and we became quite fond of each other. It''s a shame he decided that a sideways move was the only option available to him.

Anyway: thoughts?

Best of luck to Chris and yourselves for the rest of the season.[/quote]Thanks for your time, and for a decent post.  It says much about this message board that the best posts are often from fans of other clubs.I would dispute the "sideways move" comment, of course .The problem for any manager following Lambert was simply that very few other clubs have had a rise as meteoric or as "Roy of the Rovers" as ours was - three seasons ago we lost our opening game 7-1 to Colchester in League One, last season we drew away with Wigan in the Prem.  That creates its own romance, its own sense that the team are, if not invincible, then at least immune to catastrophe.  I no longer have that sense that the collective team is greater than the sum of its parts, and the team is starting to look to me exactly like the sum of its parts, i.e. lower league players asked to perform out of their comfort zone.It''s not Hughton''s fault he followed Lambert - someone had to take the job and I imagine he''s well rewarded for it - but when your first competitive game in charge is a 5-0 no-show and when you don''t appear to have seen the issues with the attacking side of the squad (lack of goals, lack of pace) throughout the friendly season, and then when you fail to fix it in the transfer window and sign a Spurs fringe player on loan, and when you talk about tightening things up at the back but select Michael Turner as your preferred centre back option (granted we have one injury to Bassong) then people will rightly question what on earth you think you are doing.The problem for me is I don''t see a credible alternative anywhere else.  Relegation wouldn''t be the end of our club as we are financially well managed, but it might be a while until we are back for another tilt at the Premier League.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

If the aim of the season is now to accept that relegation isn''t that bad then we may as well fold the club- I have no interest in that mentality, I am not part of the business side of Norwich City. There are about 5 people in the world who should be considering the financial fallout of where we are heading. They should be weighing it up against the benefits of staying up and setting a target based on that. If that target is to keep a smile on our faces and go down with the ship then they should do so in an empty stadium.If the target is to survive then they should wade in now and give the next guy a chance. Hughton is no act to follow so why anyone is concerned who could come in and be better is baffling to me.Last time we sacked a manager the football world was up in arms about it being too early in the season blah blah blah- we won the league and didn''t stop rising up the ranks til Hughton came in.Don''t give him more time. Do the new successful Norwich City thing and get rid.Birmingham fans want him back- cool, the nice guy doesn''t have to be unemployed.

[Morisons Prozac 0]

All I saw op say is we have the weakest squad for years in the prem. this statement is ridiculous we have real quality in the squad there''s no way we could''ve stayed up last year just because of Lambert, the players made it happen

[Thumbelina 0]

While Hughton is an average manager at best, the poor Lee Clark makes him look marvellous.  No swap deal I''m afraid, but can you believe that some NCFC fans wanted Lee Clark here?

[kayv1875 0]

The Prem last year was the poorest it has been for some time - I''m afraid to say if your current team had been around in 2002-2005 it would have been thrashed out of sight every week.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

[quote user="Thumbelina"]

While Hughton is an average manager at best, the poor Lee Clark makes him look marvellous.  No swap deal I''m afraid, but can you believe that some NCFC fans wanted Lee Clark here?

[/quote]Really, you wouldn''t swap? We could sack Clark for way less than Hughton and he isn''t about to start doing worse!Give him 6 weeks and see if he has doubled the points tally!

[BroadstairsR 2,163]

Birmingham fan, while you''re at it, what''s your opinion of Calderwood as assistant?

 

I, like a few others on here, was initially unhappy to have him at Carrow Road in the first place. Our fears may have been realistic.

 

For me it might be a case of not Hughton out, but Calderwood out. I say ''might'' as I have no real insight, just an instinct based upon past events. Was he rated at St. Andrews?

[Rolf Harris 31]

Wouldn''t he then relegate Birmingham fc if they made it to the prem?

[Aggy 755]

Chops - couldn''t agree more with the ''sum of its parts'' point you make. That, to some extent, is why I didn''t fancy Hughton too much. With the Lambert group of players, it was always a lot more about togetherness and team spirit than tactics. Lambert did make some good tactical moves, he also made some rather dubious calls at times as well. But when you''re trying to stay up, you can afford a bit of tactical naivety every now and then, as long as in the other games you have enough spirit to get you the points.

Hughton, for all his virtues, just doesn''t seem to be the sort who knits the players together and have them fighting for each other in the same way Lambert did. Having the players all like you is different to instilling that fight together, die together, win together attitude. For me, a manager who could have gotten that feeling was the better fit - at this moment in time.

[Thumbelina 0]

[quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="Thumbelina"]

While Hughton is an average manager at best, the poor Lee Clark makes him look marvellous.  No swap deal I''m afraid, but can you believe that some NCFC fans wanted Lee Clark here?

[/quote]

Really, you wouldn''t swap? We could sack Clark for way less than Hughton and he isn''t about to start doing worse!
Give him 6 weeks and see if he has doubled the points tally!
[/quote]

 

While I never wanted Hughton to get the managers job at NCFC as there were better options available, I think that we would have more chance of staying up with him here than we would have had if Clark was boss.

 

We may as well go and get Simon Grayson seeing as he is better than Clark and we appear to want to turn in to Leeds Utd circa 2009 anyhow.  This is a joke before anyone thinks that I am serious, but like I say he was just one available option who is far better than Clark and I believe better than Hughton too.

[Rolf Harris 31]

All we need to do is play to each players strength and get the right tactics out for the day. Then we will be winning games like we did under Lambert? And also train the players to their highest fitness so we can go the full  90 mins with that attacking mentality we all love.

[York Canary 28]

[quote user="kayv1875"]The Prem last year was the poorest it has been for some time - I''m afraid to say if your current team had been around in 2002-2005 it would have been thrashed out of sight every week.[/quote]

Not with Lambert. Regardless of how poor anyone thinks last season was, we wouldn''t have gone from finishing 12th (and on equal points with 9th place) to getting ''thrashed out of sight every week''. Either way, this team was good enough last season to finish comfortably out of danger and only missed out on a top-half position on goal difference. It''s just s*** that we couldn''t take numerous chances against the Hammers, QPR and even Spurs. Honestly can''t see anything from Chelsea or Arsenal whereas last year I believed we could get points off anyone. Just praying the team proves me (and others) wrong

[BroadstairsR 2,163]

I was one of those who initially wanted Ian Culverhouse as manager and, apart from his obvious qualities, considered that the continuity that such an appointment would have maintained would be a crucial ingredient for our success this tough season.

 

I was evertually swayed by the generous publicity surrounding Chris Hughton.

 

I''m not so sure now about my change of mind.

[kayv1875 0]

Calderwood was only in place for half of the season after we scraped together enough pennies to employ him, so it''s difficult to say. I know the Hibs fans hated him as manager, but insofar as you can notice the influence of an assistant from our point of view, he didn''t appear to do anything "wrong".

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

There are some interesting and valuable pointsmade here. I think Hughton is a good manager, however and this is with the great benefit of hindsight i do think his qualities, tactics and ethos did not fit the Norwich squad that he inherited. Its all a little bit too late now as players have already been loaned out and new ones bought. Many continental teams deliberatly pick managers /coaches who have the smae ethos of the team as opposed to getting in a manager who then goes on to ship out the old regimes players and bring in their own men.

    I can fully understand why the board appointed him, they clearly thought he was the best man for the job. He will be given more time i am sure of that but one has to think long and hard for managers who have got off to such a poor start, it takes me back to Brian hamilton days. At least the much maligned Roeder worked magic in his first half season and it was onlylater when he was completely found out.

    Hughton is clearly no fool, i am not so convinced about Calderwood and McNalley may well prove an early point by getting rid of him. This division is unforgiving and another point irrational though it is  is that i sense Hughton is not a lucky manager

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

[quote user="kayv1875"]The Prem last year was the poorest it has been for some time - I''m afraid to say if your current team had been around in 2002-2005 it would have been thrashed out of sight every week.[/quote]

Sorry but what is that based on? Certainly no actual evidence from league tables.

All conjecture and opinion which is fine but don''t come on here critisising one of the best, most enjoyable seasons this club has had - that''s certainly not ''in peace''.

We finished where we deserved to and as they say, ''the table doesn''t lie''

[technika 0]

ill happily pay his train fare, petrol, plane or bus ticket, whatever it takes. Youre welcome to him hes 5h1t3

[Carra Rud 17]

Whoever said CH was a great motivator? I see none of this... just a blind stare - looking into the abyss that was once our proud club. He''s lost it and needs to return to the lower leagues to test out his weird and woeful formations and tactics.Goodbye Mr H, thanks for nothing.

[whoareyou? 0]

Some seem to forget we got thrashed a few times last season as well.I do think it was a major mistake not to invest in a decent striker in the Summer and i still can''t fathom why we sent Vaughan out on loan and kept Chris Martin but other than that no one could argue we have a stronger squad now than at the start of last season.

[York Canary 28]

As far as I remember we were only ''thrashed'' twice and both times by Man City who smashed many a team. I never really felt we were destroyed by anyone. It is worrying we''ve shipped 5 goals in 2 of the first 6 games!

[pete_norw 0]

Colin Come on down

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

I was at the man City home game when on paper we got thrashed. For most of that game we were still in it and at 2 - 1 down we did have them worried, a totally different performance to saturday. If the Liverpool game had been a boxing match the ref would have stopped it

[J Dilla (Rest In Beats) 0]

Sunderland away was certainly a no show!!

[a1canary 0]

A boxing ref would have stopped the home game against Liverpool last season too. 2-5 and 0-3. What''s the difference? In fact as far as league table rankings go, the former is better than the latter.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="technika"]ill happily pay his train fare, petrol, plane or bus ticket, whatever it takes. Youre welcome to him hes 5h1t3
[/quote]

 

Hell,  I''d drive him there for free!

[Dr. Ink 0]

I just wonder if we had picked up a win on one of those draws, as we certainly deserved to. We would be sitting on 5 points in 16th. Would there be the same outcry? We know the team can do it, as the Spurs performance showed. It''s just whether they now keep their nerve. Massive team changes, and sacking the manager would be stupid. I still feel the results will come (but not in the next two games) as long as we keep the faith, and don''t boo or get on the players'' and manager''s back.