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Johnny_Bravo

Delivery.

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Watching West Ham tonight you''ve got to say their delivery from set pieces and from wide areas in open play has been class.

You do wonder with strikers such as Holt and Morison that if we improved in these areas we''d at least create more chances which hopefully turn into goals.

For as long as I can remember we''ve always lacked quality from corners and free kicks. This was made evident on Saturday when Surman delivered two poor corners which, from what I remember, failed to miss the first man.

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I was down near the corner where Surman took a couple of corners in the first half. As he came to take the corner there were loud shouts at him at how useless he was,  how he didn''t earn his money and was a disgrace, that was before he took the first one.    How is a player supposed to give his best when he is being slagged off in earshot by his own supporters?      I don''t feel sorry for them, because  they earn good money, but I fail to see how rubbishing your players is helping them.   It is nothing new,  but it is pretty senseless.   

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Morison and Holt aren''t as dominant in the air as Carroll and Cole. We never look like scoring directly from a corner or a FK! I agree, the quality of delivery from set pieces has been pretty poor this season, which is surprising when we have a plethora of ''dead ball specialists'' in Johnson, Pilks, Surman, Fox, Snodgrass.

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LDC I wasn''t rubbishing players or signalling out Surman, I was just using the weekend as an example. I certainly do not condone that sort of behaviour towards your own players, especially when we have the advantage of a corner. Also I feel this has been a weakness for a few seasons now?

I saw the Spurs game and thought Snodgrass'' delivery was exceptional at times but I can''t remember the last set piece he took?

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The deliveries since Hughton has been here have been poor. Don''t know whether they are instructed, but tend to hit high long balls some 10 yards beyond back post. Holt has barely seen a decent cross this season. Basically we are not getting beyond any defence due to lack of quality in midfield. Dare I say it, but Lappin and Drury could regularly both find space on the left flank, although it appears full backs are not now encouraged to get too far forward.

Quite agree that Surman''s corners were poor with two or three not even passing the first defender. Yes it does not help to moan at him but I fail to see what respective managers see in him. Never tackles just fills space, most passes are just square short hurried balls, and lacks pace. Just not premiership standard.

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[quote user="Johnny_Bravo"]LDC I wasn''t rubbishing players or signalling out Surman, I was just using the weekend as an example. I certainly do not condone that sort of behaviour towards your own players, especially when we have the advantage of a corner. Also I feel this has been a weakness for a few seasons now?

I saw the Spurs game and thought Snodgrass'' delivery was exceptional at times but I can''t remember the last set piece he took?[/quote]
Did you see last season? Against Newcastle we scored three goals from set pieces and had the highest amount of headed goals in the league.

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Surman seems to divide opinion. Personally I really like him and think he is on the most technically gifted players we have at the club. But and this is the major caveat. You have to use him correctly. He isn''t an orthodox winger and he is isn''t an orthodox central midfielder. He will flourish as part of a 3 man midfield which is why the diamond suited him perfectly. I think we have a few players like Howson, Hoolahan, Snodgrass and Surman who currently fall into the bracket of being very fine players but who are not being played correctly.

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[quote user="Johnny_Bravo"]LDC I wasn''t rubbishing players or signalling out Surman, I was just using the weekend as an example. I certainly do not condone that sort of behaviour towards your own players, especially when we have the advantage of a corner. Also I feel this has been a weakness for a few seasons now?

I saw the Spurs game and thought Snodgrass'' delivery was exceptional at times but I can''t remember the last set piece he took?[/quote]

I appreciate your point, JB,  set pieces are  such an important part of the game.  Snodgrass was good at Spurs, but hasn''t been quite so good since, imo.    Need an Ian Crook type player!

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Johnny_Bravo"]LDC I wasn''t rubbishing players or signalling out Surman, I was just using the weekend as an example. I certainly do not condone that sort of behaviour towards your own players, especially when we have the advantage of a corner. Also I feel this has been a weakness for a few seasons now? I saw the Spurs game and thought Snodgrass'' delivery was exceptional at times but I can''t remember the last set piece he took?[/quote]




I appreciate your point, JB,  set pieces are  such an important part of the game.  Snodgrass was good at Spurs, but hasn''t been quite so good since, imo.    Need an Ian Crook type player!



[/quote]

I don''t think we need yet another midfield player Lakey. We just need to find 4 or 5 of those we already have that can play together.

 

Voz is right about the fullbacks. Last season they worked with the wide midfield players but this season we haven''t really played wide midfielkd players. So there''s no doubling up or covering which results in the fullbacks being cautious or, as Vos suggested, they are instructed not to go forward for that reason. The resulkt of being so narrow means that the forwards like Holt and Morison are often on the wings when we''d prefer them in the box. I hope that changes when we get Pilks and Bennett properly fit.

 

 

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i think city have got the fine art of crossing the ball onto leon barnetts head for him to hammer it to the back of the stand every damn time spot on tbqpfh, so the delivery cant be that bad ;)

desperately need pilks and e.bennet back

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Johnny_Bravo"]LDC I wasn''t rubbishing players or signalling out Surman, I was just using the weekend as an example. I certainly do not condone that sort of behaviour towards your own players, especially when we have the advantage of a corner. Also I feel this has been a weakness for a few seasons now? I saw the Spurs game and thought Snodgrass'' delivery was exceptional at times but I can''t remember the last set piece he took?[/quote]

I appreciate your point, JB,  set pieces are  such an important part of the game.  Snodgrass was good at Spurs, but hasn''t been quite so good since, imo.    Need an Ian Crook type player![/quote]

I don''t think we need yet another midfield player Lakey. We just need to find 4 or 5 of those we already have that can play together.

 

Voz is right about the fullbacks. Last season they worked with the wide midfield players but this season we haven''t really played wide midfielkd players. So there''s no doubling up or covering which results in the fullbacks being cautious or, as Vos suggested, they are instructed not to go forward for that reason. The resulkt of being so narrow means that the forwards like Holt and Morison are often on the wings when we''d prefer them in the box. I hope that changes when we get Pilks and Bennett properly fit.

 

 

[/quote]

Me too.   Still think Pilks and Bennett are the answer.   Pace and quality.    Snodgrass is still trying to find his feet, I reckon, maybe he could move in field a bit to allow the two wingers in.   I can''t wait to see if Tetty and Butterfield are going to make an impact.   Tetty looks the real deal for pace - maybe just what we need.       A midfield of   Benno, Tetty, Butterfield and Pilks could be a winning combination, with a combination of  two strikers or one striker and Snodgrass or Wes. 

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Maybe saying ''last few seasons'' was a bit OTT, Gareth, I take your point. But I generally mean dead ball set pieces. You''re right when you mention the Newcastle game and I remember West Brom and QPR away too where Morison''s winning goals were both headers from good wing play.

Maybe it''s become more apparent because of the lack of natural wingers, such as Pilkington and Bennett.

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I do think for a couple of the players the pressure of stepping up from the Champ and performing week on week is starting to tell. It is a big ask, time for a change, consider Fox Butterfield or Tettey for Chelsea.

GL

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[quote user="Johnny_Bravo"]No Howson, LCD?![/quote]

 

It''s this that underlines the strength in depth of our midfield. With them all fit somedody''s favourite will be left out. But competition for places should make those holding the shirt more consistent. And of course football now is very much a squad game and teams need good options from the bench.

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Johnny_Bravo"]No Howson, LCD?![/quote]

 

It''s this that underlines the strength in depth of our midfield. With them all fit somedody''s favourite will be left out. But competition for places should make those holding the shirt more consistent. And of course football now is very much a squad game and teams need good options from the bench.

 

 

[/quote]

Howson is a good player, but hasn''t shone that much this season.    Also, as  Nutty says, you can''t play them all.    Also maybe Hughton still trying to get the best combination - difficult when injuries get in the way.  We know we''ve got good players, but its not clicked yet................   

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Delivery has been poor in part because Benno has been injured. It has also been poor because Snodgrass can''t centre effectively with his right foot, and so has to cut inside, and because he and Surman lack the pace to get them down to the by-line before the penalty are becomes crowded. At the moment I doubt if the 2 central midfielders and the back four, whichever they are, could cope with a 4-3-3 opposition, so sadly I can''t see both Benno and Pilks playing at the same time.

 

In terms of crosses, one of our four goals came from a Garrido cross, and Martin has made some crosses. If these are memorable, it does say much about the quality of crossing by others.

 

I agree that at set pieces we have not been very effective, as opponent defences are well organised. I would like to see someone other than Snodgrass take free kicks, because he is very inconsistent and regularly smashes the ball at knee-height into the wall. Garrido is supposed to be terrific at these, or does he prefer a moving ball? In future, perhaps Butterfield or Tettey will take these free kicks.

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