oh dear!!!

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="The Pinkun Role Model"]I''ve occasionally thought that Martin could be converted to an attacking midfield role.    That''s just my humble opinion of course.[/quote]I''m still of the opinion that his best position is where Hoolahan normally plays, but then you''re trading off superior finishing for more potential flair and creativity.I''d still rather play Martin over Jackson regardless of this however.[/quote]This is it, playing him there isn''t going to happen here. IF it doesn''t work out for him under Hoots, and he is sold.  It wouldn''t surprise at all if he is converted to that sort of role.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Across The Pond Yellow"]Barnett had a not so great season, almost forgotten about by fans, and yet, he was given the chance to start against QPR, and suddenly he is back in the good books again with most fans. this is the last I have to say on the subject, because apparently numbers and statistics mean nothing overall, it comes down to likability factor, and Jackson is more likable than Martin.[/quote]

 

 

 

Why is Jackson more likeable than Martin??  Because he looks better on the pitch.   Showing - speed, movement, complete commitment, as well as scoring goals.     Likeable is what likeable does.     Martin looks slower, doesn''t look like he is trying that hard (although he may be - just doesn''t look like it!).     We pay our money to go to football.   I would rather pay money to watch Jackson than Martin for the above reasons.    Stats are something you look at on paper or on a computer,  footballers are the real thing.  

[Jim Smith 2,317]

For me whilst Jackson''s finishing can at times be a bit wayward, the fact is that we just tend to play better when he playes up front alongside Holt. i think its our best current front two combination. Holt seems to play better with Jackson as a partner and the two of them cause the opposition lots of problems.

This was very evident at times during the second half of last season and im my view its no coincidence that some of our best attacking performances/spells cam with Jackson up front with Holt. The clearest evidence of this was the Man United home game where Jackson caused them no end of problems in the first half but then got taken off at half time after which struggled for an outball and didn;t have the same attacking threat.

[Gaz_in_NZ 9]

''''Barnett had a not so great season, almost forgotten about by fans, and

yet, he was given the chance to start against QPR, and suddenly he is

back in the good books again with most fans. this is the last I have to

say on the subject, because apparently numbers and statistics mean

nothing overall, it comes down to likability factor, and Jackson is more

likable than Martin.''''Jackson had a very good game against QPR but he can be infuriating at times eg early in the second half when he shot into the side netting instead of squaring the ball or shooting towards the far post, he also tends to slice shots a fair bit. Both the decision making and shooting may be a confidence thing but it''s been a while now and certainly the shooting doesn''t look to be improving so maybe it''s a deficiency in technique rather than confidence. I dunno he just seems to rush and snatch at it, I just wish he''d slow down a bit sometimes and think, he''s often got more time than he realises. One day he may get it all together and I hope he is still with us then.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="Across The Pond Yellow"]Barnett had a not so great season, almost forgotten about by fans, and yet, he was given the chance to start against QPR, and suddenly he is back in the good books again with most fans. this is the last I have to say on the subject, because apparently numbers and statistics mean nothing overall, it comes down to likability factor, and Jackson is more likable than Martin.[/quote]

 

 

 

Why is Jackson more likeable than Martin??  Because he looks better on the pitch.   Showing - speed, movement, complete commitment, as well as scoring goals.     Likeable is what likeable does.     Martin looks slower, doesn''t look like he is trying that hard (although he may be - just doesn''t look like it!).     We pay our money to go to football.   I would rather pay money to watch Jackson than Martin for the above reasons.    Stats are something you look at on paper or on a computer,  footballers are the real thing.  

[/quote]Imo it''s a little to do with his past bad boy days in Beccles pubs and the chicken costume incident.  Maybe that''s why some fans like one over the other?

[Redders Right Foot 22]

I know I said it was the last I was posting on the subject but, ... I lied, so here we go.

to the stats statement - that was simply a response about jacksons points towards the end of the championship season.

a player in a starting role against premier league opposition, bolstered by a header wrapped in a bowtied, is obviously going to have a better game than one that was used for just 6 minutes in one game, and then chosen to play to give others rest, alongside players that don''t compliment his attributes well.

I think if martin were to start against a side like QPR, having a midfield consisting of the ex leeds trio and pilks, with holt on his side, I think he would do well. and why, if he has indeed worked for it in practice etc. as he said he would, does he not deserve that chance. 

as for the likability factor, I believe it is due to his bad boy days, and now people have anti-martin tinted glasses on.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="Across The Pond Yellow"][quote user="baldyboy"]If that is the back up 11 for the first team tonite we are in the cack!!! Only ones who were any good tonite were Rudd francomb Fox and Hoolahan!!! We really need to wrap Holt and Jackson in cotton wool because if we have either of those two getting injured we are royally screwed if we have to put Martin or morison in to take their places on tonites non performance!!!
[/quote]

so now jackson is above Morison and martin?

I love the canadian as much as the next guy, but I don''t truly understand how he is where he is in fans pecking order. yes he has a good work rate, but as many have pointed out over the pre season when Martin said he wanted to fight for a first team spot, work rate can not make up for a lack of goals.

baring in mind, however, that Martin only played in 4 PL games last season, and Jackson played in many more and did not score a PL goal until april.

I''m really not having a go at Jackson, or you as an individual, honestly. I just do not know where the thought process comes from. it baffles me.

he scored a good goal against QPR, but, if an open, clear, wrapped in gift tape header like that was missed by anyone, it would be a shock.

[/quote]

 

Jackson is ahead of Morison and Martin in the pecking order currently because he came into the team on Saturday, played really, really well and I thought was one of the major reasons why we looked a far better team than at Fulham last week. if he continues to play like that every week he will remain ahead of Morison and Martin in the pecking order. If he doesn''t then he wont!

[/quote]

 

Jackson''s more than just ahead in the pecking order. If Hughton prefers to play a pacy second striker along side Holt now Vaughan has gone Jackson is the only option. In that scenario the only player Morison and Martin can push is Holty.

 

 

[Hoshke1 2]

A Jackson vs Martin debate is completely redundant.

We are not in the championship any longer and therefore these players cannot play the same role.

It is not a level playing field. Martin hasn''t featured prominently in the premier League under Lambert at any point. Jackson made 22 appearances last season, and Martin 4. He was loaned to Palace because he wasn''t going to feature much here.

Jackson has been the more fancied player by two of the brightest managerial talents in the League.

Jackson has scored more goals in less games at Championship level and above.

Jackson = 17 goals in 62 games in Champ and Prem

Martin = 15 in 85 games in Champ and Prem

no contest

[Redders Right Foot 22]

From mid july - now is hardly any time to show fancy. and using the games with palace are TOTALLY comparable. because Norwich and palace have the same level players from defence to midfield to get the ball to the forwards as Norwich. 

Sound Logic.

[Gaz_in_NZ 9]

''''A Jackson vs Martin debate is completely redundant.

We are not in the championship any longer and therefore these players cannot play the same role.''''Agree totally but why do you then bother to put the stats up and compare them?We need a new striker, this much is obvious.

[Hoshke1 2]

[quote user="Across The Pond Yellow"]From mid july - now is hardly any time to show fancy. and using the games with palace are TOTALLY comparable. because Norwich and palace have the same level players from defence to midfield to get the ball to the forwards as Norwich. 

Sound Logic.

[/quote]

ATPY, the games with Palace were included in the stats.

The fact of the matter is Martin isn''t even close to being a decent goalscorer at Champ level.

Why fans fancy him as a player I don''t know.

Lambert shipped him out to palace, preferring wilbraham as the fourth striker.

Ironically, having had Martin on loan, Palace have decided to sign Wilbraham instead!

If Martin had any sense he should try to move on and get first team football, he is nearly 24.

As per a previous poster, it sounds as though Hughton has given him the option of leaving on loan or permanently and he has chosen to stay and fight his way up the pecking order.

I doubt there''s much chance of more than a few snatched sub apps so we''ll probably never know.

[Gingerpele 0]

Martin was Palace''s top scorer last season, missing about 1/3 of the season...

Go watch the highlights from out last Championship and see how involved he was in attacking play (like last night...) But oh no, thats all ignored because he''s not a prolific goal scorer. How come Jackson is rated for his efforts, but Martin isn''t? Makes no sense what so ever, Jackson runs around a lot and creates space, and people love him. Martin gets heavily involved in attacking movements, good at quick passing (he plays well with Hoolahan...). But he doesn''t score shed loads, so he''s useless and any fan who rates him is crazy?

[Redders Right Foot 22]

previous poster was I

In around 20 of those 80 games, they were played before Martin was 20, before it was decided that he needed first team experience, and before he was loaned out to luton. seeing as the players are around the same age, how about you do the states from when they both got their heads infront, after the L1 season. and they aren''t so different after all.

odds are, Martin will be given a starting roll against a team the similar stature as QPR. people should make their decision then, as will I, but for now I firmly believe either both have the right to prove themselves, or neither do. 

[Redders Right Foot 22]

I for one didn''t know he was their top goalscorer. goes to show that they probably wanted him (as per what hughton told him, right, hosh?) but he wanted to be with Norwich. 

[Gaz_in_NZ 9]

ATPY....Think Martin got 7 goals in 26 appearances for Palace.Anyway let Chris Martin speak for himself

Striker Chris Martin was one of the back-up

men given a 90-minute chance to impress last night against the Iron.

The 23-year-old believes the competition for places within Hughton’s

squad dictates you have to make the most of every opportunity.

“All

I can do is take every chance that comes my way and let the manager

make the decision after that,” he said. “If it doesn’t happen, it

doesn’t happen. If it does, it’s a bonus. Nothing really changes from my

point of view. I’ve just got to go out there and play my best in every

single game. If that’s good enough then brilliant. I think I have a

one-in-three scoring record for Norwich so if that continues I’ll be

happy.

“The manager here is giving everyone a chance. There is no

one who has been banished to the reserves or the youth team or anything

like that. He’s told us it’s all going to be fair and everyone’s going

to get a shot at it. That’s all you can ask for. After that, the job’s

down to you and whether you can be good enough for him and whether

you’re what he’s looking for. From that point of view, it’s been good.”

[Redders Right Foot 22]

“All I can do is take every chance that comes my way and let the manager make the decision after that,” he said. “If it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen. If it does, it’s a bonus. Nothing really changes from my point of view. I’ve just got to go out there and play my best in every single game. If that’s good enough then brilliant. I think I have a one-in-three scoring record for Norwich so if that continues I’ll be happy.

“The manager here is giving everyone a chance. There is no one who has been banished to the reserves or the youth team or anything like that. He’s told us it’s all going to be fair and everyone’s going to get a shot at it. That’s all you can ask for. After that, the job’s down to you and whether you can be good enough for him and whether you’re what he’s looking for. From that point of view, it’s been good.”

Think he''s handled himself very well. happy for 1 in 3 for Norwich, who wouldn''t be.  1 in 3 in the PL would be around 12 goals a season, given he plays every game.

and from what i''ve heard he took his chance last night, put in a great effort but in the end wasn''t receiving the ball. sounds like he''s focused on doing the best he can every game, and Hughton is giving everyone a chance, so much for fancied sub. 

so, after the breakdown of that, I really don''t see whats left to say... he''s gone on to say what i''ve been saying.

[Redders Right Foot 22]

APOLOGIES read your post completely wrong, Gaz. consider previous post a future one for the nay sayers that will pick-nick his statements 

[Gaz_in_NZ 9]

''''APOLOGIES read your post completely wrong, Gaz. consider previous post a

future one for the nay sayers that will pick-nick his statements 

''''No worries mate.Martin''s chat about the state of things just smack of someone with a poor attitude hey? So immature! [;)]