Striker in the shadows

[Indy_Bones 441]

There''s been plenty of wild speculation on here about who a potential new striker would be, anything from the unproven Rhodes, to the unfit Owen, to the unknown Abdellaoue, yet there seems to be one player who should have been a obvious candidate (at least from CH''s perspective) who we''ve all skipped over for one reason or another, and that is of course:Andy CarrollHe worked with CH during his most prolific periods of goalscoring so they''ll know each other well and I can''t see Carroll being averse to working with CH again.Also consider our stats from last season - we scored 53% of our goals in open play from crosses and we played a high number of long balls as well, both of which are ideal ''food'' for a strong target man.Newcastle have advised they won''t budge beyond 12m, with Liverpool apparently wanting closer to 18m to get him out of there, but it''s likely a middle ground of approx 14-15m would be accepted at this point.Bear in mind that we''ve probably spent at most 10m so far (2-3 Bassong, 1.5-2 Turner, 0.5-1 Bunn, 1.75-2.5 Snoddy, 2-3 Tettey?), and if our transfer budget was anywhere in the region of 25m then we have approx 15m left to spend with a striker apparently being the missing puzzle piece for CH.I admit this would be a massive amount to spend and a bit of a gamble as well, but if CH does want to persevere with a lone striker, or if he wants to unshackle Holt more but still get crosses in and hold play up, then I''d argue that he may see Carroll as the ideal choice to facilitate this.I can''t see it happening in many ways, yet in others it seems to make perfect sense - thoughts?

[Michael Bates 9]

The only way this would work is if we paid say 8m upfront with say 5-6m worth add ons for survival and goals etc.. they won''t accept that so it''s a no go... also wages too high.

[Row D Seat 7 0]

No chance. Absolutely none.

[Redders Right Foot 22]

he would be a good outside shout, but I just can''t see it.

the only way I can see it happening is if it''s a loan where we''re only paying like 60% of his wages... they must be reasonably high, given how much liverpool like to overspend ;)

+ I can see us going in for a more pacy striker.

[paul moy 235]

Carroll is far too expensive fee-wise and wages-wise.  Also has a bad injury record... his thigh injury saga for instance went on for months. I also find it strange that Liverpool are seemingly so desperate to offload him which makes me feel there are skeletons in the cupboard.  Too much of a risk for us IMO.

[4th floor 4]

Too much of a gamble. We aren''t really spending more than an estimated £4m on a single player, so if they turn out crap we haven''t lost more than we could afford to lose.

[Row D Seat 7 0]

I''d like to see Gary Hooper here. Not at £8m though.

Failing that I think we will bring in a player nobody has heard of, someone who will sign for us this season, score a bagful, then leave for a big fee next summer.

[ROBFLECK 132]

Would be a fantastic loan signing, but we''re never gonna be able to buy him nor pay his wages... We are all so desperate to get a striker in, and that leads to all these names and speculations... You can see how "desperate" we are. We don''t give a sh%* ''bout the Bunn signing. A GK was the last thing on our minds... To be honest I can''t see any striker coming, ''cause the names I thought of are gone, ie they''ve been sold. Well, just wait and see...

[Block Y Seat 176 80]

Liverpool seems desperate to offload, reminds me of the Crouch situation, perhaps a loan with Liverpool paying part of his wages is about the best we can hope for.

H

[Mr Brownstone 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]

Bear in mind that we''ve probably spent at most 10m so far (2-3 Bassong, 1.5-2 Turner, 0.5-1 Bunn, 1.75-2.5 Snoddy, 2-3 Tettey?), and if our transfer budget was anywhere in the region of 25m then we have approx 15m left to spend with a striker apparently being the missing puzzle piece for CH.

[/quote]

 

Even if we did have a £25m pot to spend, that would include signing on fee''s, agents fee''s, loan fee''s and most importantly wages. Established Premier League players such as Bassong, Turner etc will be on much higher wages than the players we brought in last summer. Also, let''s not forget Hughton and his coaching staffs compensation probably came to £3m. I''d be amazed if there''s any more than £8m-£10m left, Carrol''s wages would take half of that let alone the transfer fee, it''s just never going to happen in a bazillion years. It would also leave us with no options in January.

[judderman 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Bear in mind that we''ve probably spent at most 10m so far (2-3 Bassong, 1.5-2 Turner, 0.5-1 Bunn, 1.75-2.5 Snoddy, 2-3 Tettey?), and if our transfer budget was anywhere in the region of 25m then we have approx 15m left to spend with a striker apparently being the missing puzzle piece for CH.[/quote]What on earth makes you think our transfer budget was anywhere in that region. They said we had the largest playing budget in the clubs history (which would include all wages, signing on fees, and agents fees which means the price of a player is usually more than twice their initial transfer fee). They didn''t say it was twice as big as it''s ever been before. We probably have in the region of £3-5m left for upfront fees.

[fried_chicken 0]

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]

Bear in mind that we''ve probably spent at most 10m so far (2-3 Bassong, 1.5-2 Turner, 0.5-1 Bunn, 1.75-2.5 Snoddy, 2-3 Tettey?), and if our transfer budget was anywhere in the region of 25m then we have approx 15m left to spend with a striker apparently being the missing puzzle piece for CH.

[/quote]

 

Even if we did have a £25m pot to spend, that would include signing on fee''s, agents fee''s, loan fee''s and most importantly wages. Established Premier League players such as Bassong, Turner etc will be on much higher wages than the players we brought in last summer. Also, let''s not forget Hughton and his coaching staffs compensation probably came to £3m. I''d be amazed if there''s any more than £8m-£10m left, Carrol''s wages would take half of that let alone the transfer fee, it''s just never going to happen in a bazillion years. It would also leave us with no options in January.

[/quote]

exactly. everyone seems to think that the transfer fee is the only fee that has to be paid. West Ham bidded £17m for Carroll (which they admitted was their whole budget) and didn''t get him. He will only leave for Newcastle. His wages will also be 10 times that of our average earner (I would guess he''s on 150k) and even if we could afford that it would anger the other players. There were media reports that we paid 3m for Dave Watson alone; I would be surprised if we spent any more than £5m on our last player.

[youngriles 3]

strangely, i was thinking about this earlier-

what about an offer to pay his wages for this season (£80k per week i believe)

With a fee of £14 mil if we stay up?

With us being debt free this autumn onwards, and next seasons TV money being astronomical, is this really beyond the realms of possibility?

If Carroll could agree wages more in our long term budget for the following season, tied with a severance package with Liverpool, why would we have less of a shot than say West Ham?

This is all supposition that he loves Hughton though.

And please, for anyone who suggests that Holt is better, just you see Carroll in a system that suits him... I still rate him

[judderman 0]

[quote user="youngriles"]strangely, i was thinking about this earlier-

what about an offer to pay his wages for this season (£80k per week i believe)

With a fee of £14 mil if we stay up?

With us being debt free this autumn onwards, and next seasons TV money being astronomical, is this really beyond the realms of possibility?

If Carroll could agree wages more in our long term budget for the following season, tied with a severance package with Liverpool, why would we have less of a shot than say West Ham?

This is all supposition that he loves Hughton though.

And please, for anyone who suggests that Holt is better, just you see Carroll in a system that suits him... I still rate him[/quote]I''m sure it''s beyond the realms of possibility for us to be debt free if we''re paying wages like that.

[Row D Seat 7 0]

Unfortunately money paid for Hughton and staff had to come out of player budget because McNally f****d up by not getting anything for Lambert and team. Something I still can''t believe happened really. So amateur.

[youngriles 3]

[quote user="judderman"][quote user="youngriles"]strangely, i was thinking about this earlier-

what about an offer to pay his wages for this season (£80k per week i believe)

With a fee of £14 mil if we stay up?

With us being debt free this autumn onwards, and next seasons TV money being astronomical, is this really beyond the realms of possibility?

If Carroll could agree wages more in our long term budget for the following season, tied with a severance package with Liverpool, why would we have less of a shot than say West Ham?

This is all supposition that he loves Hughton though.

And please, for anyone who suggests that Holt is better, just you see Carroll in a system that suits him... I still rate him[/quote]I''m sure it''s beyond the realms of possibility for us to be debt free if we''re paying wages like that.[/quote]

But what if he got a fat pay off from Liverpool and just wants to get his career back on track, abd took something like £40-£50k a week moving forwards with Norwich.

Of course, he''d have to live with Holty. He was at his best when living with Kevin Nolan...

It is dream world really, but dear god we need a striker. I agree with earlier posts, one who could free up Holty wouldn''t be a bad shout, Holt is a great finisher, or alternatively a fox in the box type-- the one type we don''t have...

[Redders Right Foot 22]

[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]Unfortunately money paid for Hughton and staff had to come out of player budget because McNally f****d up by not getting anything for Lambert and team. Something I still can''t believe happened really. So amateur.[/quote]

o ye of negative demeanor.

McNally confirmed we got money for Lamberts backroom staff, believed to be in the millions range.

[Indy_Bones 441]

I think that Liverpool would be very receptive to a good offer, even the West Ham offer was an initial 2m loan fee with a purchase option at the end if they stayed up and the only reason it didn''t happen was because Carroll didn''t want to go there.There''s no reason we couldn''t make a similar (if slightly lower purchase price) offer to Liverpool and it would then come down to whether Carroll is set on Newcastle or whether Hughton is a big enough lure for him.Whilst I think we ''could'' afford to bring him in, I don''t think we ''would'' pay that much in wages etc, especially after the Holt fiasco and the fact that Carroll would likely be looking for at least double what everyone else is on.For me one of the key points here is potential impact if he did come, as if his signing and subsequent contribution kept us up, then it would have arugably been a justified expenditure, compared to gambling on bringing in yet another lower league striker (or player from Europe), who may be cheaper but is completely unproven at this level and who doesn''t make the grade and risks our place in the top flight.Way too many ''ifs'' and ''buts'' around the whole thing to be anywhere near clear, but it just strikes me as a possible deal and very much a ''marquee'' signing despite Carroll''s form last year etc.

[lake district canary 0]

Caroll is feasible in the long term  with a loan for a season with a commitment  to buy at the end of the season when ( [:)] ) we stay up.    Liverpool pay a portion of his wages, we get the benefit of Caroll for this season and we buy him at the end of the season for a pre agreed price.   Simples.

 

 

[Scooby 0]

As I have not really stuck my oar in with any of the striker speculation i thought I''d give it my two P worth.  (Bored with time on my hands so why not)

Andy Carroll? Not a snowball in hell''s chance. Too expensive (if Newcastle can''t pry him back from the scouse gits then what chance would we have), too much like Holty anyway and who scored more last year.  

Hooper I suppose would be a possibility but at 8 mil !!! No way should we be paying anywhere near that amount, maybe 2, 3 max. Personally I doubt he is up to the PL anyway so I''d rather not thank you very much.

Missed the boat with Rhodes, thank god.  Another piece of daylight robbery carried out there.  I pity the Blackburn fans if the gamble doesn''t pay off.

So that leaves this Abdel wotsisname chappy who''s been heavily linked.  Could be the most likely candidate if he wants to play in the PL within our wage structure.  Again, very doubtful.

My opinion is that we''ll either miss the boat completely or be forced into a rash transaction to save face and get anyone in to fill that much needed slot. Please god let it not be DJ Campbell of someone of that ilk.  One thing is for sure, it won''t be that big money signing that certain fans are insisting we fork out for, we simply cannot afford the wages and to do so would go against everything that the club has tried to build.  Big money signings are for big money clubs.  I think we have already made one mistake too many in our transfer dealings, the biggest of which is to let our top scorer in pre season go out on loan.  For the first time JV was looking fit and sharp. Hope this one doesn''t come back to bite us in the proverbial.

[Block Y Seat 176 80]

Carroll may think his carer has stalled and would look upon Norwich and Hughton as the place to reinvent himself and get his confidence back.

H

[Surfbird 1]

Your right youngriles. This is similar to West Ham''s latest offer - we could match that. Carroll is reputed to have refused to go to London.

Wow defences find Holt extremely difficult to handle (e.g. QPR last week - wrestling him down was the only way). How would they manage playing against a Holt Carroll combination? That would be exciting for us.

Hughton''s former charges seem to love playing for him - so it could happen.

[GRIFFTER45 0]

We have already spent nearly all of our budget that was allocated. We will not be purchasing any more players. We are looking for a striker but it is only going to be a loan only.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Its official you have all lost your minds.

Quite apart from not having the money to buy Andy Carroll or loan him why would we want to ?

Yes we scored amongst the most headed goals in the Prem last season and the players that did that are still here.

We want something different not more of the same.

I would play a cheese sandwich upfront before Andy Carroll.

Power Pace and Skill that not we need not bloody Andy Carroll.

Go take a long hard look at yourselves.

[First Wizard 0]

 Fraser Campbell from Sunderland, our new sick note, don''t shoot the messenger.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="GRIFFTER45"]We have already spent nearly all of our budget that was allocated. We will not be purchasing any more players. We are looking for a striker but it is only going to be a loan only. [/quote]And why not Carroll on loan this season with a with to a perm in the summer assuming we stay up?Same deal as West Ham had accepted and it means we don''t have a massive transfer fee to pay right now (just some bloody high wages!), and if it works out well for all parties we will be in a position to pay in the summer.The only 2 sticking points I genuinely see are Carroll''s wages and whether or not he would come to us, outside of this I think it''s a very simple deal.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

[quote user="Wiz"] 

Fraser Campbell from Sunderland, our new sick note, don''t shoot the messenger.

[/quote]

 

Why do you continue to pretend you have inside information? It''s blatantly obvious that you don''t.

 

At least spell his name right, it''s "Fraizer".

 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="youngriles"]strangely, i was thinking about this earlier-

what about an offer to pay his wages for this season (£80k per week i believe)

With a fee of £14 mil if we stay up?

With us being debt free this autumn onwards, and next seasons TV money being astronomical, is this really beyond the realms of possibility?

If Carroll could agree wages more in our long term budget for the following season, tied with a severance package with Liverpool, why would we have less of a shot than say West Ham?

This is all supposition that he loves Hughton though.

And please, for anyone who suggests that Holt is better, just you see Carroll in a system that suits him... I still rate him[/quote]

 

Well I don''t rate him at all. Why on earth would we want to pay £14m, risk the financial stability of a club and smash our wage structure for a completely overrated donkey when we have two perfectly good targetmen in Holt and Morison. We need a quick, mobile striker to play on the shoulder of the last defender. we do not need Andy Carroll.

[mrdi 373]

I''d almost rather have El Hadji Diouf than Andy Carroll.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]I think that Liverpool would be very receptive to a good offer, even the West Ham offer was an initial 2m loan fee with a purchase option at the end if they stayed up and the only reason it didn''t happen was because Carroll didn''t want to go there.There''s no reason we couldn''t make a similar (if slightly lower purchase price) offer to Liverpool and it would then come down to whether Carroll is set on Newcastle or whether Hughton is a big enough lure for him.Whilst I think we ''could'' afford to bring him in, I don''t think we ''would'' pay that much in wages etc, especially after the Holt fiasco and the fact that Carroll would likely be looking for at least double what everyone else is on.For me one of the key points here is potential impact if he did come, as if his signing and subsequent contribution kept us up, then it would have arugably been a justified expenditure, compared to gambling on bringing in yet another lower league striker (or player from Europe), who may be cheaper but is completely unproven at this level and who doesn''t make the grade and risks our place in the top flight.Way too many ''ifs'' and ''buts'' around the whole thing to be anywhere near clear, but it just strikes me as a possible deal and very much a ''marquee'' signing despite Carroll''s form last year etc.[/quote]

 

He would not be a "marquee" signing because he has absolutely no pedigree whatsoever. Half a good season at newcastle, thats it. The only reason he is rated so highly by many and gets anywhere near the England team is because of the ridiculous fee Liverpool paid for him.