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CMS The Best We Can Get On Our Budget

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[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]Try reading the post above yours Indy. It''s

pointless crying over other clubs spending more, we are spending what we

have to spend, it''s impossible for us to spend more.

Unless of course you know a bored Sheikh, or have a money tree growing

in your garden. Just what do you expect the club to do exactly?[/quote]I''m not crying over it at all, in fact my initial post on this thread was in response to Wiz''s statement that buying ''big name'' players doesn''t guarantee success, which is true to a certain extent but that doesn''t stop everyone doing it because odds are that ''big name'' players got that name through performances and therefore have already shown the required ability.What I find maddening is that clubs like West Ham have debts somewhere in the region of 80-100 mil (or so I''ve been lead to believe), and it doesn''t stop them spending money on players like Jarvis, yet we have less than a 10th of this debt (and it will be paid off this season) but apparently we can''t stretch beyond the likes of CMS...something is very wrong with this situation.The TV money is due to increase yet again after this season, and if we can''t speculate to a certain degree this year to try to ensure we''re there next season, then what''s the damn point? We may as well have not bothered signing anyone and gone with what we have, then just accepted the parachute payments and looked to bounce back the year after.The key factor at the minute HAS to be safety yet again (obviously anything above this is great), and if this means the board needs to do some strong financial wrangling to free up the necessary funds in order to bring in a higher standard of player then so be it.I appreciate it''s not as simple as sitting at a keyboard and demanding money be pulled out of thin air, but not every other premiership club has rich benefactors or are debt free, and we at the very least need to be able to compete with them or risk being left behind...

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It is what it is Indy. Our debt is owed to a financial institution and HAS to be paid back by the end of the year. The debts owned by the majority of Premier League clubs aren''t in fact debts at all. They are ''owed'' to their owners who have injected the money as a loan, and in reality will never be paid back.

Unless we find wealthy benefactors we just have to deal with the fact that we can''t compete with the majority of clubs in this league on a financial basis, doesn''t mean we can''t compete on the pitch, as you''ve said money doesn''t guarantee success.

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"I appreciate it''s not as simple as sitting at a keyboard and demanding money be pulled out of thin air, but not every other premiership club has rich benefactors or are debt free,"

 

The reality is that virtually every club does indeed have rich investors/benefactors, including the middling and small clubs (Wigan, QPR, Sunderland, Stoke, Southampton, Reading, ...).

 

About the only one I can think of offhand that doesn''t is WBA, and that club is debt-free, and has had many years to build a Prem-level squad.

 

" ...and if this means the board needs to do some strong financial wrangling to free up the necessary funds in order to bring in a higher standard of player then so be it."

 

Our bank debt is non-negotiable. Which means that our budget is severely limited this season, certainly compared to virtually every other PL club.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Mr Brownstone"]Try reading the post above yours Indy. It''s pointless crying over other clubs spending more, we are spending what we have to spend, it''s impossible for us to spend more. Unless of course you know a bored Sheikh, or have a money tree growing in your garden. Just what do you expect the club to do exactly?[/quote]
I''m not crying over it at all, in fact my initial post on this thread was in response to Wiz''s statement that buying ''big name'' players doesn''t guarantee success, which is true to a certain extent but that doesn''t stop everyone doing it because odds are that ''big name'' players got that name through performances and therefore have already shown the required ability.

What I find maddening is that clubs like West Ham have debts somewhere in the region of 80-100 mil (or so I''ve been lead to believe), and it doesn''t stop them spending money on players like Jarvis, yet we have less than a 10th of this debt (and it will be paid off this season) but apparently we can''t stretch beyond the likes of CMS...something is very wrong with this situation.

The TV money is due to increase yet again after this season, and if we can''t speculate to a certain degree this year to try to ensure we''re there next season, then what''s the damn point? We may as well have not bothered signing anyone and gone with what we have, then just accepted the parachute payments and looked to bounce back the year after.

The key factor at the minute HAS to be safety yet again (obviously anything above this is great), and if this means the board needs to do some strong financial wrangling to free up the necessary funds in order to bring in a higher standard of player then so be it.

I appreciate it''s not as simple as sitting at a keyboard and demanding money be pulled out of thin air, but not every other premiership club has rich benefactors or are debt free, and we at the very least need to be able to compete with them or risk being left behind...
[/quote]

 

But you do seem to think it is as simple as pulling money out of thin air. What do you mean by "strong financial wrangling" for example?

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Sir Digby Chicken Ceasar"]We''ve been in the Premiership for a season I repeat A SEASON, people are talking on here as if its a god given right that we should expect top players to be signed immediately.[/quote]
Funny how most of the other teams in the league are looking to do so.

Southampton are trying to get Ramirez for around 11mil, West Ham have already paid over 10 mil for Jarvis and Reading have spent big on wages for Pogrebnyak - they haven''t even been in the prem for a season but are willing to spend the money, so why is it unreasonable for us Norwich fans to expect someone better than the likes of CMS after a successful season in the top flight???
[/quote]

I think a few people have already posted how these teams can do this. Outside investors or people who are putting money in because they think they''ll get some sort of return  and when they don''t, will move on and leave their "plaything club" without a preverbial pot to urinate in.  

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]But you do seem to think it is as simple as pulling money out of thin air. What do you mean by "strong financial wrangling" for example?[/quote]I mean that our board of strong and financially experienced individuals work together to find a means to inject additional funds if our current budget will not quite stretch the necessary amount to bring in the new striker of sufficient quality that we all want.Be this via investment, debt negotiation or application for an additional loan, directors loans, sponsorship deals, or whatever else that can come up with to provide the necessary additional finance.I don''t claim to be a finance expert, but when we are set to be debt free this time next year, we''re surely not in a bad position to negotiate a new loan if necessary?

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Anyone better than what we have, we can''t afford.anyone we can afford is no better than what we have.Right, so we either have to twist or stick.It''s a right old conundrum intut?[;)]

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Indy, the debt cannot be renegotiated, this is a stipulation of the last renegotiation from when we were at deaths door, and no financial institution anywhere will lend a football club money to speculate on players. Our shareholders have already pumped in the vast majority of their financial wealth to keep us afloat in our dark days, it would be massively unfair to expect them to gamble their retirements on a player who could easily get injured in his first game. That only leaves outside investment, not gonna happen by 11pm tomorrow....

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]But you do seem to think it is as simple as pulling money out of thin air. What do you mean by "strong financial wrangling" for example?[/quote]

Be this via investment, debt negotiation or application for an additional loan, directors loans, sponsorship deals, or whatever else that can come up with to provide the necessary additional finance.I don''t claim to be a finance expert, but when we are set to be debt free this time next year, we''re surely not in a bad position to negotiate a new loan if necessary?[/quote]Look around you, the world is swimming in debt and many will soon sink. This is the wrong time to increase borrowings.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]But you do seem to think it is as simple as pulling money out of thin air. What do you mean by "strong financial wrangling" for example?[/quote]
I mean that our board of strong and financially experienced individuals work together to find a means to inject additional funds if our current budget will not quite stretch the necessary amount to bring in the new striker of sufficient quality that we all want.

Be this via investment, debt negotiation or application for an additional loan, directors loans, sponsorship deals, or whatever else that can come up with to provide the necessary additional finance.

I don''t claim to be a finance expert, but when we are set to be debt free this time next year, we''re surely not in a bad position to negotiate a new loan if necessary?
[/quote]

 

Indy, for starters, I think you and other posters are missing the point about signing CMS - IF we do. Because he is a striker, and it''s the last deal we are going to do this summer (presumably) the complaint is that we should be spending more money. But if we had done our signings the other way round, and got it CMS early on and then swooped for Snodgrass (who IS our marquee signing this summer) tonight or tomorrow most posters here would be delirious with happiness at such a capture. But because we have already got Snodgrass and SEVEN other players the money left is limited.. Especially when some has to be held in reserve for January.

As to financee, we have tried to get investment, and failed to meet the Bowkett Test. And our directors just don''t have the kind of money you''re talking about about in terms of attracting a hotshot striker who will want big wages AND so prompt wage demands from the rest of the squad. I know you believe players shouldn''t think that way, but they do.

We cannot get a loan to buy players, we cannot renegotiate our debt, and we can''t wish a new sponsorship deal out of thin air. And when we are debt-free the last thing we will want to do (even if we could find someone mad enough to lend to us) is go back into debt to buy players. If we ARE going to go back into debt it will be to fund a £20m stadium expansion.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]But you do seem to think it is as simple as pulling money out of thin air. What do you mean by "strong financial wrangling" for example?[/quote]
I mean that our board of strong and financially experienced individuals work together to find a means to inject additional funds if our current budget will not quite stretch the necessary amount to bring in the new striker of sufficient quality that we all want.

Be this via investment, debt negotiation or application for an additional loan, directors loans, sponsorship deals, or whatever else that can come up with to provide the necessary additional finance.

I don''t claim to be a finance expert, but when we are set to be debt free this time next year, we''re surely not in a bad position to negotiate a new loan if necessary?
[/quote]

 

Indy, for starters, I think you and other posters are missing the point about signing CMS - IF we do. Because he is a striker, and it''s the last deal we are going to do this summer (presumably) the complaint is that we should be spending more money. But if we had done our signings the other way round, and got it CMS early on and then swooped for Snodgrass (who IS our marquee signing this summer) tonight or tomorrow most posters here would be delirious with happiness at such a capture. But because we have already got Snodgrass and SEVEN other players the money left is limited.. Especially when some has to be held in reserve for January.

As to financee, we have tried to get investment, and failed to meet the Bowkett Test. And our directors just don''t have the kind of money you''re talking about about in terms of attracting a hotshot striker who will want big wages AND so prompt wage demands from the rest of the squad. I know you believe players shouldn''t think that way, but they do.

We cannot get a loan to buy players, we cannot renegotiate our debt, and we can''t wish a new sponsorship deal out of thin air. And when we are debt-free the last thing we will want to do (even if we could find someone mad enough to lend to us) is go back into debt to buy players. If we ARE going to go back into debt it will be to fund a £20m stadium expansion.

[/quote]

Excellent post Sir.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]But you do seem to think it is as simple as pulling money out of thin air. What do you mean by "strong financial wrangling" for example?[/quote]I mean that our board of strong and financially experienced individuals work together to find a means to inject additional funds if our current budget will not quite stretch the necessary amount to bring in the new striker of sufficient quality that we all want.Be this via investment, debt negotiation or application for an additional loan, directors loans, sponsorship deals, or whatever else that can come up with to provide the necessary additional finance.I don''t claim to be a finance expert, but when we are set to be debt free this time next year, we''re surely not in a bad position to negotiate a new loan if necessary?[/quote]

 

Indy, for starters, I think you and other posters are missing the point about signing CMS - IF we do. Because he is a striker, and it''s the last deal we are going to do this summer (presumably) the complaint is that we should be spending more money. But if we had done our signings the other way round, and got it CMS early on and then swooped for Snodgrass (who IS our marquee signing this summer) tonight or tomorrow most posters here would be delirious with happiness at such a capture. But because we have already got Snodgrass and SEVEN other players the money left is limited.. Especially when some has to be held in reserve for January.As to financee, we have tried to get investment, and failed to meet the Bowkett Test. And our directors just don''t have the kind of money you''re talking about about in terms of attracting a hotshot striker who will want big wages AND so prompt wage demands from the rest of the squad. I know you believe players shouldn''t think that way, but they do.We cannot get a loan to buy players, we cannot renegotiate our debt, and we can''t wish a new sponsorship deal out of thin air. And when we are debt-free the last thing we will want to do (even if we could find someone mad enough to lend to us) is go back into debt to buy players. If we ARE going to go back into debt it will be to fund a £20m stadium expansion.

[/quote]In a nutshell.

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"If we ARE going to go back into debt it will be to fund a £20m stadium expansion."

 

Ahh, but surely a cunning wheeze involving Councils, universities, airports and peppercorn rents could obviate the need for this?

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[quote user="Lets be aving you"]

"If we ARE going to go back into debt it will be to fund a £20m stadium expansion."

 

Ahh, but surely a cunning wheeze involving Councils, universities, airports and peppercorn rents could obviate the need for this?

[/quote]Perhaps Mr Cavendish will enlighten us?

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I do sometimes wonder why we don''t seem to be a decent prospect to some prospective rich investors or someone with a fair few bob?

 

What is it that suppresses any serious financial investment into NCFC?

 

Any ideas?

 

Anyway......Craig M Smith (if we do sign him) won''t be a Marquee signing to some......but, he''ll be a beltin'' an'' brilliant bivouac! 

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

I do sometimes wonder why we don''t seem to be a decent prospect to some prospective rich investors or someone with a fair few bob?

 

What is it that suppresses any serious financial investment into NCFC?

 

Any ideas?

 

Anyway......Craig M Smith (if we do sign him) won''t be a Marquee signing to some......but, he''ll be a beltin'' an'' brilliant bivouac! 

[/quote]For chrisake Mello, don''t get them started with Delia''s train set and the whole Chase-Watling saga again!

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I do sometimes wonder why we don''t seem to be a decent prospect to some prospective rich investors or someone with a fair few bob?

 

What is it that suppresses any serious financial investment into NCFC?

 

Any ideas?

 

Anyway......Craig M Smith (if we do sign him) won''t be a Marquee signing to some......but, he''ll be a beltin'' an'' brilliant bivouac! 

[/quote]

For chrisake Mello, don''t get them started with Delia''s train set and the whole Chase-Watling saga again!
[/quote]

 

It''sDelia''s doll''s house Rickyyyyyyyyyyyyy!]

 

Anybody know how much Watling did actually wallet[:^)]

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I do sometimes wonder why we don''t seem to be a decent prospect to some prospective rich investors or someone with a fair few bob?

 

What is it that suppresses any serious financial investment into NCFC?

 

Any ideas?

 

Anyway......Craig M Smith (if we do sign him) won''t be a Marquee signing to some......but, he''ll be a beltin'' an'' brilliant bivouac! 

[/quote]For chrisake Mello, don''t get them started with Delia''s train set and the whole Chase-Watling saga again![/quote]

 

It''sDelia''s doll''s house Rickyyyyyyyyyyyyy!]

 

Anybody know how much Watling did actually wallet[:^)]

 

 

[/quote]FFS Nigel, I just knew you''d be unable to resist this. Bloody Mello! now we are going to get 20 odd pages of the inner circle in a cat fight.

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[quote user="Lets be aving you"]

"Perhaps Mr Cavendish will enlighten us?"

 

Think he may be out scouting, or compiling a detailed dossier on required players for Mr Hughton.

[/quote]I hate to disappoint you both but I think he''s doing a traffic survey on Bluebell Road.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I do sometimes wonder why we don''t seem to be a decent prospect to some prospective rich investors or someone with a fair few bob?

 

What is it that suppresses any serious financial investment into NCFC?

 

Any ideas?

 

Anyway......Craig M Smith (if we do sign him) won''t be a Marquee signing to some......but, he''ll be a beltin'' an'' brilliant bivouac! 

[/quote]

For chrisake Mello, don''t get them started with Delia''s train set and the whole Chase-Watling saga again!
[/quote]

 

It''sDelia''s doll''s house Rickyyyyyyyyyyyyy!]

 

Anybody know how much Watling did actually wallet[:^)]

 

 

[/quote]

FFS Nigel, I just knew you''d be unable to resist this.

Bloody Mello! now we are going to get 20 odd pages of the inner circle in a cat fight.
[/quote]

 

It''s a dog fight Rickyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

 

Or it will be when Lapp gets here.

 

 

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I do sometimes wonder why we don''t seem to be a decent prospect to some prospective rich investors or someone with a fair few bob?

 

What is it that suppresses any serious financial investment into NCFC?

 

Any ideas?

 

Anyway......Craig M Smith (if we do sign him) won''t be a Marquee signing to some......but, he''ll be a beltin'' an'' brilliant bivouac! 

[/quote]

For chrisake Mello, don''t get them started with Delia''s train set and the whole Chase-Watling saga again!
[/quote]

I would like to think that ''saga'' is all in the past now, and I do now find it quite tiresome and it doesn''t do the forum any favours......I just wonder why it is though, that some affluent football folk, don''t see us as an attractive proposition......?

 

Decent loyal crowds, Tidy Stadium, Premiership football.......etc.... Maybe it''s just our location in Yeast Yanglia?......eh?  

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[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I do sometimes wonder why we don''t seem to be a decent prospect to some prospective rich investors or someone with a fair few bob?

 

What is it that suppresses any serious financial investment into NCFC?

 

Any ideas?

 

Anyway......Craig M Smith (if we do sign him) won''t be a Marquee signing to some......but, he''ll be a beltin'' an'' brilliant bivouac! 

[/quote]For chrisake Mello, don''t get them started with Delia''s train set and the whole Chase-Watling saga again![/quote]

I would like to think that ''saga'' is all in the past now, and I do now find it quite tiresome and it doesn''t do the forum any favours......I just wonder why it is though, that some affluent football folk, don''t see us as an attractive proposition......?

 

Decent loyal crowds, Tidy Stadium, Premiership football.......etc.... Maybe it''s just our location in Yeast Yanglia?......eh?  

[/quote]So, not put off by unreasonable demands from the "Stowmarket Two", then?[;)]

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I do sometimes wonder why we don''t seem to be a decent prospect to some prospective rich investors or someone with a fair few bob?

 

What is it that suppresses any serious financial investment into NCFC?

 

Any ideas?

 

Anyway......Craig M Smith (if we do sign him) won''t be a Marquee signing to some......but, he''ll be a beltin'' an'' brilliant bivouac! 

[/quote]

For chrisake Mello, don''t get them started with Delia''s train set and the whole Chase-Watling saga again!
[/quote]

I would like to think that ''saga'' is all in the past now, and I do now find it quite tiresome and it doesn''t do the forum any favours......I just wonder why it is though, that some affluent football folk, don''t see us as an attractive proposition......?

 

Decent loyal crowds, Tidy Stadium, Premiership football.......etc.... Maybe it''s just our location in Yeast Yanglia?......eh?  

[/quote]

So, not put off by unreasonable demands from the "Stowmarket Two", then?[;)]
[/quote]

No, the ''Stowy Twoee'' have taken a back-seat now......They just decide who we sign and also select who''s in the squad on matchdays.....

It suits me, now.....

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What rubbish are you spouting?Did anyone, anyone at all say there had to be a "marquee" signing?Why do we have to spunk money - just so you can brag to your mates about how we are spending more than them?Is the transfer window shut?  Is there no longer one in January?Pillock.[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]If the biggest budget in NCFC equates to CMS being our marquee signing then our budget must have been quite poor.

However, it didn''t help that we had to fork out for Hughton and team out of the player budget because McNally messed up letting Lambert etc leave for free.[/quote]

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[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I do sometimes wonder why we don''t seem to be a decent prospect to some prospective rich investors or someone with a fair few bob?

 

What is it that suppresses any serious financial investment into NCFC?

 

Any ideas?

 

Anyway......Craig M Smith (if we do sign him) won''t be a Marquee signing to some......but, he''ll be a beltin'' an'' brilliant bivouac! 

[/quote]

For chrisake Mello, don''t get them started with Delia''s train set and the whole Chase-Watling saga again!
[/quote]

I would like to think that ''saga'' is all in the past now, and I do now find it quite tiresome and it doesn''t do the forum any favours......I just wonder why it is though, that some affluent football folk, don''t see us as an attractive proposition......?

 

Decent loyal crowds, Tidy Stadium, Premiership football.......etc.... Maybe it''s just our location in Yeast Yanglia?......eh?  

[/quote]

 

It was tiresome and didn''t do the forum any favours before though.....

 

I reckon a lot of the reason that we are not attractive is because we are expecting a benefactor (like we have now). That is very different to an investor.

 

 

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Some crazy posts today. Going into debt to sign Andy Carol in a potentially worsening economic climate could be disasterous in my opinion. Time will tell, but I think Hughton is better aware of the constraints than most managers and so far making some shrewd decisions in going for the best value he can in an over-inflated market. If CMS were too expensive or not going to add to what we have sufficiently then I don''t think Hughton would bother going after him and instead save the money for January.

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Yes, some crazy posts. Sounds like our bid for CMS has been turned down anyway.

 

For some, CMS is laughable and shows a lack of ambition. The "ambition" being shown by Reading, Southampton, QPR and others of our size is actually backed by billions of roubles, petrodollars, etc. Ours is not.

 

Alternative names to CMS are unforthcoming other than Anelka, Hernandez, Drogba, etc. or other Champions League players, who will all be on way over 100 grand a week compared with Holt''s 20 grand.

 

Or players like Ameobi, Scotland, Bothroyd who are no better than CMS, and in my view worse.

 

We will probably not sign anyone now, and the money will be saved till January.

 

For those slating Hughton for letting Vaughan go, Vaughan''s record was no better than CMS''s, he is very injury prone and, most importantly, it may well have been Vaughan that instigated the move.

 

For me, Hughton has done well with a necessarily constrained budget in an inflated market. It may or may not be enough to keep us up, but I cannot fault how he has spent his limited budget.

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The issue ''are we willing to spend'' should be compared with those clubs at the same financial level as us.

As has been pointed out, Reading/Saints/QPR all have external funds of which we don''t.

Instead we should compare with Swansea and West Brom. Swansea have bought a few 2-3million pound players (the same as us) along with a bigger signing in Ki Sung Yeong due to the money raised from the Allen and Sinclair deals.

West Brom and Jeremy Pearce are notoriously tight with their budget but have sustained a decent squad albeit being the ultimate yo-yo club in recent years.

With a large chunk of the remaining hard debt to be paid this year along with the compensation package for Hughton and Co. don''t expect the 5mill+ players to roll through the door this year.

Maybe the following summer, Premiership survival depending, with the huge 80% rise in TV Income we could see a true ''marquee'' player but by that time will money be earmarked for the increase of the stadium?

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Exactly right, Bovril. West Brom and Swansea are, with us, about the only 2 PL clubs not externally funded.

 

Swansea received simply silly money for Joe Allen, which they look to have spent very wisely using Laudrup''s in-depth knowledge of the Spanish league. They will be doing similar with the high fee for Sinclair.

 

West Brom have spent many of the last few years in the PL, with just the occasional yo-yo year, so have a very good squad with real depth. Ours has come straight up from League One/Championship, and still has some remnants of those days. Just as importantly, West Brom have no debt.

 

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