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Jim Smith

Our boys being overlooked for international call ups again

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I have just seen that Sterling (Liverpool), Lallana (Southampton) and Livermore (Spurs) have been called into the England squad.

Whilst part of me does not want to see our players all heading off for international duty all of the time and risking injuries i cannot help but think that the likes of Pilkington, Howson and Johnson are all equally, if not more, deserving of a call up than those three. livermore in particular is a very average player and the other two have played 5 or 6 premiership games between them.

I had hoped that having managed a smaller club in WBA Hodgson would prove himself to be a bit more enlightened than other managers but it seems not. Squad player at Liverpool or Spurs seems to give you a better chance of selection than regualr starter at Swansea or norwich and that is very sad.

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And before anyone says Pilks is Irish, he''s not. He is English, with an Irish grandmother and played once for R.O.I under 21s. And surely they have tried more than once to call up the leading ''Irish'' goal scorer in the Prem last season? He''s probably told them he wants to play for England.

And how on earth does Lallana get ahead of Pilks and Nathan Dyer? Sterling call up could be partly down to Jamaca wanting him.., get him capped (2 mins at the end) in a competitive game, and the possibility won''t be there.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]And before anyone says Pilks is Irish, he''s not. He is English, with an Irish grandmother and played once for R.O.I under 21s. And surely they have tried more than once to call up the leading ''Irish'' goal scorer in the Prem last season? He''s probably told them he wants to play for England. And how on earth does Lallana get ahead of Pilks and Nathan Dyer? Sterling call up could be partly down to Jamaca wanting him.., get him capped (2 mins at the end) in a competitive game, and the possibility won''t be there.[/quote]

 

Where is Jamaca!!

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]And before anyone says Pilks is Irish, he''s not. He is English, with an Irish grandmother and played once for R.O.I under 21s. And surely they have tried more than once to call up the leading ''Irish'' goal scorer in the Prem last season? He''s probably told them he wants to play for England.

And how on earth does Lallana get ahead of Pilks and Nathan Dyer? Sterling call up could be partly down to Jamaica wanting him.., get him capped (2 mins at the end) in a competitive game, and the possibility won''t be there.[/quote]Could have something to do with it.  Either that or it''s because he plays for Liverpool.

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[quote user="The Pinkun Role Model"][quote user="Gingerpele"]And before anyone says Pilks is Irish, he''s not. He is English, with an Irish grandmother and played once for R.O.I under 21s. And surely they have tried more than once to call up the leading ''Irish'' goal scorer in the Prem last season? He''s probably told them he wants to play for England. And how on earth does Lallana get ahead of Pilks and Nathan Dyer? Sterling call up could be partly down to Jamaica wanting him.., get him capped (2 mins at the end) in a competitive game, and the possibility won''t be there.[/quote]

Could have something to do with it.  Either that or it''s because he plays for Liverpool.
[/quote]

 

I reckon that''s part of the package Liverpool can offer a player as an incentive to sign. "Look laddie, you sign for us and we have an agreement that you will be picked for your country". I wonder if they made that plain to Pilks when their supposed interest was leaked last season[:^)]

 

 

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Lallana has played very well so far this season and Pilkington, at this moment in time, doesn''t seem to be up at the high levels he was last year. That''s not to say he isn''t playing well but he''s been better.

Sterling''s the only one likely to get any playing time anyway, and it will probably be for all of 5 minutes so he can''t play for Jamaica.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]And before anyone says Pilks is Irish, he''s not. He is English, with an Irish grandmother and played once for R.O.I under 21s. And surely they have tried more than once to call up the leading ''Irish'' goal scorer in the Prem last season? He''s probably told them he wants to play for England. And how on earth does Lallana get ahead of Pilks and Nathan Dyer? Sterling call up could be partly down to Jamaca wanting him.., get him capped (2 mins at the end) in a competitive game, and the possibility won''t be there.[/quote]

 

Pilkington was called into the Irish squad, but pulled out through injury - the same time as Wes Hoolahan - Trap mentioned it in one of his press conferences.

 

Lallana and Livermore have had extensive under-21 apperances and are being asked to train with England so Roy can have a closer look at them - they aren''t being selected for current ability but future potential. Anyway, Lallana plays a different position to Howson, Pilks or Nathan Dyer and I would argue Lallana''s form at the beginning of the season is better than theirs anyway.

 

 

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]And before anyone says Pilks is Irish, he''s not. He is English, with an Irish grandmother and played once for R.O.I under 21s. And surely they have tried more than once to call up the leading ''Irish'' goal scorer in the Prem last season? He''s probably told them he wants to play for England. And how on earth does Lallana get ahead of Pilks and Nathan Dyer? Sterling call up could be partly down to Jamaca wanting him.., get him capped (2 mins at the end) in a competitive game, and the possibility won''t be there.[/quote]

 

Pilkington was called into the Irish squad, but pulled out through injury - the same time as Wes Hoolahan - Trap mentioned it in one of his press conferences.

 

Lallana and Livermore have had extensive under-21 apperances and are being asked to train with England so Roy can have a closer look at them - they aren''t being selected for current ability but future potential. Anyway, Lallana plays a different position to Howson, Pilks or Nathan Dyer and I would argue Lallana''s form at the beginning of the season is better than theirs anyway.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Would that Lallana who has played extensively in the U21s be the same one who has ONE U21 cap and who was left out of Pearce''s final squad for the U21 championships? (admittedly being left out by Stuart Pearce is probably a good sign).

Isn''t Lallana a left winger (i.e. the same as Pilks)?

Would that be the Livermore who the commentators said (when he came on the the recent friendly) has never played for England at any other level before making his full debut?

 

Bethnal i know that you like to at times think of yourself as the voice of reason whilst we on here are ranting away with our pro Norwich bias (and at time you are) but in this instance I think you need to check the facts. Whether or not Lallana is playing better than Pilks is a matter of oppinion but he''s not done anything that great in the games I have seen. As our resident media man perhaps you can dig out the facts and tell me how many other premiership midfielders have scored 8 or more goals in a season and not been capped by their country?

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I really don''t know why you''re surprised at this Jim, we''ve been getting the short end of the stick for donkey''s years, and it''s not likely to change anytime soon tbh.Rooney could be 20% fit, completely off form and having not scored in months, but he''d still have a place in the squad over other strikers (ours or otherwise) purely based on his reputation, previous ability and current ''big'' club.I firmly believe that England will never acheive anything whilst either the FA insist on controlling things behind the scenes (allegedly), or until they appoint a manager who doesn''t pick based on name, club or history - but on current ability and form.This is why so many fans looked on incredulously when Downing got called up for the Euro''s despite having one of the worst seasons possible for a left winger, whilst other superior players didn''t even make the squad (and yes, I would rather have taken Pilks).Quite where Hodgson''s Liverpool obsession has come from is anyone''s guess (especially after his unceremonious sacking), but when players like Downing, Kelly and co keep getting the nod over ''better'' players in superior form, serious questions should be asked of the manager as to his thinking and justification for their selection.The potential upside to this ''discrimination'' however is that we don''t have to worry about losing key players to injury in pointless friendlies, but I''d still rather see some of our guys proudly representing our country, than the usual shower of overpaid ''superstars'' who don''t give a damn about the prestige and honour a call up provides...

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[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]And before anyone says Pilks is Irish, he''s not. He is English, with an Irish grandmother and played once for R.O.I under 21s. And surely they have tried more than once to call up the leading ''Irish'' goal scorer in the Prem last season? He''s probably told them he wants to play for England. And how on earth does Lallana get ahead of Pilks and Nathan Dyer? Sterling call up could be partly down to Jamaca wanting him.., get him capped (2 mins at the end) in a competitive game, and the possibility won''t be there.[/quote]

 

Pilkington was called into the Irish squad, but pulled out through injury - the same time as Wes Hoolahan - Trap mentioned it in one of his press conferences.

 

Lallana and Livermore have had extensive under-21 apperances and are being asked to train with England so Roy can have a closer look at them - they aren''t being selected for current ability but future potential. Anyway, Lallana plays a different position to Howson, Pilks or Nathan Dyer and I would argue Lallana''s form at the beginning of the season is better than theirs anyway.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Would that Lallana who has played extensively in the U21s be the same one who has ONE U21 cap and who was left out of Pearce''s final squad for the U21 championships? (admittedly being left out by Stuart Pearce is probably a good sign).

Isn''t Lallana a left winger (i.e. the same as Pilks)?

Would that be the Livermore who the commentators said (when he came on the the recent friendly) has never played for England at any other level before making his full debut?

 

Bethnal i know that you like to at times think of yourself as the voice of reason whilst we on here are ranting away with our pro Norwich bias (and at time you are) but in this instance I think you need to check the facts. Whether or not Lallana is playing better than Pilks is a matter of oppinion but he''s not done anything that great in the games I have seen. As our resident media man perhaps you can dig out the facts and tell me how many other premiership midfielders have scored 8 or more goals in a season and not been capped by their country?

[/quote]My bad, I really thought they had more experience than that - anyway, the main point is that Lallana plays as a number 10 behind the strikers, although can also play on either wing, whilst Pilks is a winger only - if Pilkington had been in good form over the last few games maybe he would have been picked but he hasn''t been his usual flying self and I still thinks he lacks a little pace for a Hodgson''s system.I think there is a bit of comparing apples and oranges here - it''s impossible to say that there is a big team bias and then Lallana is called up. Livermore isn''t the greatest of players, but he has been playing defensive midfield in Parker''s absence at Tottenham and generally doing okay (apart from the Norwich game). Talk of the FA controlling things in the background is just silly - the one time they did try to exert some pressure on Capello he quit - barely suggests they were picking the team. In fact it would be more in the FA''s interest if players were picked from smaller teams as it would weaken the club/country argument as the pride coming out of Southampton and Norwich for the picks of Lallana and Ruddy respectively means they worry less about injuries/tiredness than teams like Man U do. Maybe sometimes I am a little harder on Norwich players because they are ''my'' team and try to avoid the yellow and green glasses problem - but subjectively, if Pilkington or Howson played for someone else I think I would be more shocked at their call-ups than Sterling (a super quick and young winger), Lallana (a number 10, to provide back up for Cleverly) and Livermore (a defensive midfielder).

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]And before anyone says Pilks is Irish, he''s not. He is English, with an Irish grandmother and played once for R.O.I under 21s. And surely they have tried more than once to call up the leading ''Irish'' goal scorer in the Prem last season? He''s probably told them he wants to play for England. And how on earth does Lallana get ahead of Pilks and Nathan Dyer? Sterling call up could be partly down to Jamaca wanting him.., get him capped (2 mins at the end) in a competitive game, and the possibility won''t be there.[/quote]

 

Pilkington was called into the Irish squad, but pulled out through injury - the same time as Wes Hoolahan - Trap mentioned it in one of his press conferences.

 

Lallana and Livermore have had extensive under-21 apperances and are being asked to train with England so Roy can have a closer look at them - they aren''t being selected for current ability but future potential. Anyway, Lallana plays a different position to Howson, Pilks or Nathan Dyer and I would argue Lallana''s form at the beginning of the season is better than theirs anyway.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Would that Lallana who has played extensively in the U21s be the same one who has ONE U21 cap and who was left out of Pearce''s final squad for the U21 championships? (admittedly being left out by Stuart Pearce is probably a good sign).

Isn''t Lallana a left winger (i.e. the same as Pilks)?

Would that be the Livermore who the commentators said (when he came on the the recent friendly) has never played for England at any other level before making his full debut?

 

Bethnal i know that you like to at times think of yourself as the voice of reason whilst we on here are ranting away with our pro Norwich bias (and at time you are) but in this instance I think you need to check the facts. Whether or not Lallana is playing better than Pilks is a matter of oppinion but he''s not done anything that great in the games I have seen. As our resident media man perhaps you can dig out the facts and tell me how many other premiership midfielders have scored 8 or more goals in a season and not been capped by their country?

[/quote]My bad, I really thought they had more experience than that - anyway, the main point is that Lallana plays as a number 10 behind the strikers, although can also play on either wing, whilst Pilks is a winger only - if Pilkington had been in good form over the last few games maybe he would have been picked but he hasn''t been his usual flying self and I still thinks he lacks a little pace for a Hodgson''s system.I think there is a bit of comparing apples and oranges here - it''s impossible to say that there is a big team bias and then Lallana is called up. Livermore isn''t the greatest of players, but he has been playing defensive midfield in Parker''s absence at Tottenham and generally doing okay (apart from the Norwich game). Talk of the FA controlling things in the background is just silly - the one time they did try to exert some pressure on Capello he quit - barely suggests they were picking the team. In fact it would be more in the FA''s interest if players were picked from smaller teams as it would weaken the club/country argument as the pride coming out of Southampton and Norwich for the picks of Lallana and Ruddy respectively means they worry less about injuries/tiredness than teams like Man U do. Maybe sometimes I am a little harder on Norwich players because they are ''my'' team and try to avoid the yellow and green glasses problem - but subjectively, if Pilkington or Howson played for someone else I think I would be more shocked at their call-ups than Sterling (a super quick and young winger), Lallana (a number 10, to provide back up for Cleverly) and Livermore (a defensive midfielder).[/quote]Why couldnt Jonny Howson or Brad Johnson play defensive midfielder? Oh wait, they do [;)]

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I''ve been keeping an eye on Lallana since our short stay in League 1 with Southampton and he is a fantastic player at a still early age of 24, so I feel deserves a look at international level personally.

Sterling is only 17 and has played a lot in Liverpool''s pre/early season and has shown great promise too by being the best player on the pitch (admittedly among some dire Liverpool performances).

Cant comment on Livermore as i havent really seen him play (cant say I noticed him against us though...).

These Call-ups are a step in the right direction in my opinion and Pilks still has time to get a call-up himself if he gets a run of form going.

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I believe that the fact Pilks was selected by Ireland u21 does not stop him changing loyalties before he gets picked for the full international side (Eg. Emmanuel Frimpong has represented England at youth level, but I believe he''s pledged allegiance to Ghana). Part of me wants to believe thats why he pulled out of the Ireland squad - with some phantom injury, because he either has had some interest from the England camp. To be honest, a premier league winger with 8 goals should be in there. If Downing had scored 8 goals then he''d be rated as the world''s best winger by Roy

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]And before anyone says Pilks is Irish, he''s not. He is English, with an Irish grandmother and played once for R.O.I under 21s. And surely they have tried more than once to call up the leading ''Irish'' goal scorer in the Prem last season? He''s probably told them he wants to play for England. And how on earth does Lallana get ahead of Pilks and Nathan Dyer? Sterling call up could be partly down to Jamaca wanting him.., get him capped (2 mins at the end) in a competitive game, and the possibility won''t be there.[/quote]

 

Pilkington was called into the Irish squad, but pulled out through injury - the same time as Wes Hoolahan - Trap mentioned it in one of his press conferences.

 

Lallana and Livermore have had extensive under-21 apperances and are being asked to train with England so Roy can have a closer look at them - they aren''t being selected for current ability but future potential. Anyway, Lallana plays a different position to Howson, Pilks or Nathan Dyer and I would argue Lallana''s form at the beginning of the season is better than theirs anyway.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Would that Lallana who has played extensively in the U21s be the same one who has ONE U21 cap and who was left out of Pearce''s final squad for the U21 championships? (admittedly being left out by Stuart Pearce is probably a good sign).

Isn''t Lallana a left winger (i.e. the same as Pilks)?

Would that be the Livermore who the commentators said (when he came on the the recent friendly) has never played for England at any other level before making his full debut?

 

Bethnal i know that you like to at times think of yourself as the voice of reason whilst we on here are ranting away with our pro Norwich bias (and at time you are) but in this instance I think you need to check the facts. Whether or not Lallana is playing better than Pilks is a matter of oppinion but he''s not done anything that great in the games I have seen. As our resident media man perhaps you can dig out the facts and tell me how many other premiership midfielders have scored 8 or more goals in a season and not been capped by their country?

[/quote]My bad, I really thought they had more experience than that - anyway, the main point is that Lallana plays as a number 10 behind the strikers, although can also play on either wing, whilst Pilks is a winger only - if Pilkington had been in good form over the last few games maybe he would have been picked but he hasn''t been his usual flying self and I still thinks he lacks a little pace for a Hodgson''s system.I think there is a bit of comparing apples and oranges here - it''s impossible to say that there is a big team bias and then Lallana is called up. Livermore isn''t the greatest of players, but he has been playing defensive midfield in Parker''s absence at Tottenham and generally doing okay (apart from the Norwich game). Talk of the FA controlling things in the background is just silly - the one time they did try to exert some pressure on Capello he quit - barely suggests they were picking the team. In fact it would be more in the FA''s interest if players were picked from smaller teams as it would weaken the club/country argument as the pride coming out of Southampton and Norwich for the picks of Lallana and Ruddy respectively means they worry less about injuries/tiredness than teams like Man U do. Maybe sometimes I am a little harder on Norwich players because they are ''my'' team and try to avoid the yellow and green glasses problem - but subjectively, if Pilkington or Howson played for someone else I think I would be more shocked at their call-ups than Sterling (a super quick and young winger), Lallana (a number 10, to provide back up for Cleverly) and Livermore (a defensive midfielder).[/quote]

 

Fair enough and apologies i didn;t mean my post to sound as hostile as it did when i read it back after posting! I would still be interested to know (if there are any stattos out there) how many players have got 8 goals from midfield in the premier league and still never been picked for their country! It baffles me and I actually think Pilks has looked back to his best in the last 2 games.

Actually on current form Bradley Johnson is arguably the one who can feel most aggrieved with Livermore''s inclusion!

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http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/players/ea-sports-player-performance-index.html

 

Search the players you want to compare. This should give you an impartial subjective view.

 

But of course in the end it''s about opinions and even at the very top there can be a big gulf between managers. Lambert froze out Barnett and played Ward. Hughton froze out Ward and played Barnett. If their views can be so many poles apart what chance do us ordinary fans have of agreeing.

 

 

 

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Not really sure how accurate that all is Nutty given that Johnson comes out of it as the lowest performing of our 4 midfielders and its arguable that he''s been our best performer over the last two games. however, if one does accept it as a rteu guide of how our players are performing then both Pilkington and Howson are ranking higher than Lallana which is indeed interesting!

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Yet again. the FA (As I am fairly certain they are behind this) have chosen to go for the ''big teams'' to pick players from. Overpayed, ego filled morons who do nothing better than go on social networking sites such as tw@tter and cause trouble.

Let''s old forget little old Norwich, and better yet, let''s not even complain, because we are a ever so ''umble small club.

Yet again smaller clubs such as our ourselves have been denied the chance for players to wear the shirt with pride.

Terrible.

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BW''s Cat: ''Yet again. the FA (As I am fairly certain they are behind this) have chosen to go for the ''big teams'' to pick players from. Overpayed, ego filled morons'' 
That doesn''t really apply to Lallana seeing as he was playing league 1 football about two years ago. 

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Livermore has been bog standard average in every game he''s played, and certainly hasn''t looked a patch on Johnson (or Howson for that matter) in a defensive mid role.Despite Pilks having a ''slower'' start than last season, he''s still been better than the usual suspects that get called up for England ''wing'' roles (and that includes dross like Milner), and whilst Sterling might have the raw pace, he''s also ''raw'' in most other areas and I think it''s too early for call-ups at this stage for him, especially considering how well Pilks played all last season thereby establishing his credentials instead of a couple of decent games for Liverpool.Lallana is an interesting one, as I think he''s been very overrated by the press so far this year, and whilst he''s a promising player who''s been Southampton''s best player for the last few years (along with Lambert), I again don''t see England credentials based on a couple of average games in the top flight.Quite why players like Pilks, Howson and Johnson are being overlooked in favour of players who haven''t got a strong track record or been amazing so far this season is beyond me, but I bet if they played for Man Utd, Liverpool or Spurs they''d be getting the phone calls from ''Woy''...

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This is precisely why I can never really give a toss about England. It''s not even about these players getting ahead of Norwich players, it''s just that they shouldn''t be in the squad at all.

Sterling has played, what, two Premiership games in his entire career and he''s suddenly in the top 26 players in England? Above Dyer or Sinclair or Joe Cole or Leon Osman or anyone else in The Premiership?

Livermore is an absolute joke decision and has never, ever set the world alight. I have to admit I have never seen Lallana play a full 90 minutes but, again, the mind boggles that he''s done enough in three Prem appearances (with three defeats) to leapfrog frankly any other Englishman in central midfield.

 

England selections are a bunch of cr@p [:@]

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After the last Euro Cup I don''t really care too much about international football, it''s not like we''ve got even a remote chance of winning the World Cup...

Happy for our lads to be overlooked, less chance of injury, less fatigue, all good for Norwich in the end I think :)

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Jackson had a very nice game for Canada v. Panama in Toronto on friday, a 1-0 canada win. He played 85 mins.

He will be relied on more heavily on Tuesday in the return match on Panama, as Canada''s main striker Olivier Occéan of Eintracht Frankfurt has apparently come up with an injury.

A huge game for Canada. A win and they will be all but assured a place in the hexagonal round. 6 team playoff with 3.5 WC. spots.

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