Need a new midfield

[pete 319]

Howson could not place a pass today, truly shocking lets see why Foxy got a new contract.  Snoddy let his standards drop looked like he did for Scotland last Saturday, shame Elliott Benett is unavailable would be more direct than Snoddy.  Surman except for first 5 minutes was appalling, fingers crossed Pilks not badly injured.  Johnson started poorly but then excelled only one today who merited the position.

 

If midfield had been better would Holty have looked interested?  If we need to rely on this quartet in next 6 games could be in real trouble.  Jacko tries hard but not good enough.  Fear for our goalscoring.

 

Couldn''t find any threads slating Howson on here needs to be said.

[pete 319]

Sorry Lincoln just seen your post agree re JH.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

Yes I agree. There aren''t enough threads slating one of our best performing players of 2012.

[MyGodWeArePoorToWatch 0]

Got to agree reference howson, he was shocking today, as was holt, who has shown himself to be very unprofesional, to throw his toys out of the pram and ask for a transfer, only for the club to give into his demands ( and it was fair enough imho ) but for that to happen, and him to come back in such poor condition shows a lack of respect to the club, and fans.

I thought surman had a decent game to be honest,

Snoddy was nothing more than a headless chicken if truth be told.

We are really going to pay the price for not investing in a decent striker this year.

[Six Pack 93]

I don''t think Howson should be slated for his performance today. He performed his role as per usual. It''s not his fault that he hasn''t the natural skill & ability to break down the opposing defence - this was something I identified after his first couple of games last season. The media have talked him up and he is a very tidy player but he is no Hoolahan on attack. By the way, my definition of a good creative player is not a player that can beat 2 or 3 players and produce no result. i.e. Snodglass weaving past players and then not making an accurate final pass - that equates to "0"'' result something that is comparable to Lee Croft when he was at the club. I suspect those who favour the present team lineup & there are many, will sleep well tonight with the "one" point tucked safely under their pillows.

[Pachecos Boots 0]

No one was saying we needed a new midfield after dominating Spurs in that area.

Another typical Knee jerk reaction. Get a grip

[Dicky 0]

You thought Surman was awful? Did you watch the game? He was quality. Our midfield is packed with quality, best we have had.

We could have won by 2 or 3 yesterday. It''s football - sometimes the best team don''t get their just desserts.

OTBC

[4th floor 4]

[quote user="Six Pack"]I don''t think Howson should be slated for his performance today. He performed his role as per usual. It''s not his fault that he hasn''t the natural skill & ability to break down the opposing defence - this was something I identified after his first couple of games last season. The media have talked him up and he is a very tidy player but he is no Hoolahan on attack. By the way, my definition of a good creative player is not a player that can beat 2 or 3 players and produce no result. i.e. Snodglass weaving past players and then not making an accurate final pass - that equates to "0"'' result something that is comparable to Lee Croft when he was at the club. I suspect those who favour the present team lineup & there are many, will sleep well tonight with the "one" point tucked safely under their pillows.[/quote]I agree with this, and I notice that Norwich don''t have many players who can play the ball forward through the middle for the strikers to latch onto. It therefore comes as no surprise that there are a large number of crosses and headed goals. Apart from Hoolahan, I can only think of Surman as being particularly skilled at the through ball.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="JonnyH"][quote user="Six Pack"]I don''t think Howson should be slated for his performance today. He performed his role as per usual. It''s not his fault that he hasn''t the natural skill & ability to break down the opposing defence - this was something I identified after his first couple of games last season. The media have talked him up and he is a very tidy player but he is no Hoolahan on attack. By the way, my definition of a good creative player is not a player that can beat 2 or 3 players and produce no result. i.e. Snodglass weaving past players and then not making an accurate final pass - that equates to "0"'' result something that is comparable to Lee Croft when he was at the club. I suspect those who favour the present team lineup & there are many, will sleep well tonight with the "one" point tucked safely under their pillows.[/quote]
I agree with this, and I notice that Norwich don''t have many players who can play the ball forward through the middle for the strikers to latch onto. It therefore comes as no surprise that there are a large number of crosses and headed goals. Apart from Hoolahan, I can only think of Surman as being particularly skilled at the through ball.
[/quote]

 

And Holt!

[Gingerpele 0]

I will admit I haven''t read the OP properly, because I am still in shock at the thread title...

All that has been missing from past three games is finishing, midfield has been fine. Second half performance yesterday wasn''t great, but we still created chances and defended well. Which involved the midfield.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="pete"]

Howson could not place a pass today, truly shocking lets see why Foxy got a new contract.  Snoddy let his standards drop looked like he did for Scotland last Saturday, shame Elliott Benett is unavailable would be more direct than Snoddy.  Surman except for first 5 minutes was appalling, fingers crossed Pilks not badly injured.  Johnson started poorly but then excelled only one today who merited the position.

 

If midfield had been better would Holty have looked interested?  If we need to rely on this quartet in next 6 games could be in real trouble.  Jacko tries hard but not good enough.  Fear for our goalscoring.

 

Couldn''t find any threads slating Howson on here needs to be said.

[/quote]

Upon reading the above post two words immediately sprung to mind: f*ck and wit.

[4th floor 4]

If you''re talking about the forwards then Holt would be quite clever in that department, as would Martin. In the not too distant past Pacheco and Lansbury showed potential in this type of play.

[Zak Van Burger 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]I will admit I haven''t read the OP properly[/quote]It was just a long winded way of saying "We missed Pilks"....

[Canariesworld 0]

The midfield struggled yesterday but that was partly to do with the fact that West Ham kept playing long balls which we then also resorted to in the second half especially when he took Jackson off. Surman reminds me of Wes when we first signed him, he shows moments of greatness but is far too lightweight.

Like someone else said though apart from pilks it was the same midfield that looked like world beaters against spurs.

OTBC

[CambridgeCanary 0]

How about Bennett, Tettey, Butterfield and Pilkington? A Premier class midfield none of whom were in the squad yesterday. and there were six good players in the squad.

One area where we are blessed with enough good options to enable us to cope

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="JonnyH"]If you''re talking about the forwards then Holt would be quite clever in that department, as would Martin. In the not too distant past Pacheco and Lansbury showed potential in this type of play.
[/quote]

Holty''s good at that when he drops back to find space. I guess that''s the thinking of playing him a bit deeper this year with Jackson''s pace on the shoulder of the last man. Some times it''s difficult to call it a system but it''s not really 442. Martin could play that role too. So could Hoolahan but then you lose the strength. But it won''t work with a diamond four. Which I guess is why Wes is out of favour.

 

 

[Dr. Ink 0]

Can''t believe the original post, but it''s amazing how we all see things differently.

From my eyes...

Surman - not at his best. Caught on the ball a few times. Faded badly in the 2nd half. Probably due to lack of game time. We missed Pilkington''s pace.

Howson - Classy play. Excellent short passing interchanges, and often beat his man before passing. Excellent game considering WHU long ball tactics. Faded towards the end.

Johnson - His committed hard tackling had WHU scared. Pretty good alround as we have witnessed so far season. 

Snodgrass - Generally did well as an outlet out wide, but final ball was not always good enough. Good workrate. Main downside for me was his poor free-kicks and some corners that were overhit.

Jackson - Looking sharp and unlucky not to score. Some of the early offside calls against him were correct, but very close.

Holt - Not good. Was not even attempting to win most headers, but would stand still trying to block the defender. Most of our break away attacks he seemed to be out wide or too far back. Clearly not at his best fitness wise.

Morison - pretty anominous. I did not notice a lot from him other than the long ball he glanced directly into the keepers arms. 

Kane - Looked lively, but woeful finishing. First shot well created by himself but well wide as well. The top corner was gaping open and with a little more composure a good chance. Second chance (the 3 on 2) how did he miss? Easiest chance all game, and basically fluffed a weak shot.

Defense - excellent and composed all round. Garrido reluctant to bomb forward unlike Naughton last season. You can see Hughton''s work here, keeping a better defensive shape, not only when the opposition are attacking. 

My main criticism was the subs. Why take Jackson off when he was just what was needed late in the game? I would have taken off Holt earlier for Kane or Morison. Surman needed to be replaced after 60 minutes, as he had faded by then, but I can understand how he couldn''t bring on Wes. Basically we are missing Elliot Bennet and Pilkington, and to me that was the difference between a win and the draw.

I am concerned at the lack of points, but not overly worried yet. Hopefully S''ton and Rdg will continue to languish at the foot of the table and on play so far we are showing to be better than some of the other teams. With a little more luck we could have had 2 wins on the cards already and be sitting pretty in 8th place with 7 points.

[mrdi 373]

Surprised by this, must admit.

I actually thought Howson played a decent game. Gave the ball away, sure. But who didn''t? As opposed to just looking at our own, look at the opposition. Constantly closing down early, Howson and Johnson rarely had time to do much more than simple passing. West Ham''s midfield was set up to stifle our passing, Allardyce does his homework and for the most part, it worked.

In light of that, we actually did well to create space that we did. Surman and Garrido were involved in some nice overlapped play on the left. Russ Martin did his best on the other flank to do likewise.

Snodgrass impressed me with his workrate. He might have a porcelain right foot (only excuse for not using it) but his closing and chasing down of their defenders and midfielders was excellent. On more than one occasion his effort created goalscoring chances from nothing situations. End product absent, but not effort.

Wish same could be said about Holt, but this is about our midfield.

I actually thought we needed Fox on in the second half but without sacrificing a forward (I didn''t think the midfield quartet needed changing) there was no way to introduce him and make his passing ability effective. (Take a striker off for Fox, push Snoddy upfront, you''re compromising our right side, for example).

Same goes for Hoolahan - once Jackson went off we lacked the pace up top, so our approach to chance creation was never going to be the sharp movement/defence-splitting through-ball type.

My only concern with the midfield was that at times (when defending) we looked more than a little lightweight. The way Diame seemed to literally bulldozer his way through us at times was more than a little worrying. Not seen him play as yet but hopefully Tettey can supply some muscle.

Disappointed with the inability to win, our frontline concerns me - but happy with the clean sheet.

[ZLF 274]

Rather than needing a new midfield my impression was that changes were needed but not made.   We have good and plentiful options but so far not used.

 

For Sat I though Howson was off his game completely - he started sluggishly and gave the ball away far too frequently and his day did not improve.

 

Johnson started very well and for the first 30 mins was superb;  but he ran out of steam and was slowly overpowered by the hard working wet sham midfield;   they closed him down fatser meaning he did not get the ball out as effectively,  particularly to Surman

 

Surman too started really well but faded partly because wet sham responded to his threat by closing down him and his supply;   some of his early passing to Jackson (frustratingly offside) was as precise and creative as anything seen for the last 18 months,  and was missing in the second half.

 

Snodgrass started poorly but ended the first half well,  hold should have done better from his lay off in teh penalty area and while he dived he was causing problems.   He was inconsistent and was frozen out of the game.

 

A lot may be down to howson having an off day,  for me he was the weak link on sat and should have been replaced quite early in the second half;  players are allowed off days and fresh legs and impetus was needed;    whether he is changed next week is another thing;  may be harsh to do so but may also just give players a shake up.

 

I was worried about pilks not playing,  but surman did ok.  

 

As others have said I would have changed the midfield,   with fox or wes for howson. 

[kellybrook 0]

I wonder what game you people watch.  The Howson who picked up the ball and drifted past people before supplying Snodgrass time and time again?  That crap Howson?On top of that we have Fox, Butterfield, Tettey, Hoolahan, Bennett and Pilkington pushing for place.  We have NEVER had such a strong midfield and all will get their chance.

[ZLF 274]

kelly - where have i said he was crap?   I said he was off his game on saturday - not crap. He did some things right, as all the players did.  For me it was one of his poorer games and he was our weak link in midfield.  

 

some other people have seen the same game as me,   you saw it differently - what the big issue?

[ROBFLECK 132]

I''m sorry to have to say this , but I would drop Holt, just to give him the kick up the back side he needs... He''s just not the same player he was last season...yet... :-/

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Our midfield is fine and has generally performed really well for the last three games. I thought on Saturday we missed Pilks. Surman played well first half but faded second half but also has a bit of a tendancy to drift inside whereas Pilks tends to stay wider and give us more of an outlet. I aso think they were all knackerd after an hour in that heat and Hoot should have brought Hoolahan or Fox on. West Ham made 2 changes mid second half and changed their shape slightly and from that point onwards we lost control of that area of the pitch and both teams just played long ball stuff.

So yes it wasnt a perfect midfield performance on saturday. We missed Pilks and I thought changes should have been made in the scond half. But to say we need a whole new midfield is ridiculous, particularly given that (as pointed out above) we have Fox, Hoolahan, Butterfield, Bennett and Tettey to come in to supplement a midfield that is performing very well anyway. I suspect that in one of the away games coming up we might try 5 in the midfield anyway with Tettey coming in and either Howson pushing up or Wes/Butterfield coming in.