Ayala to Forest

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

Due to Ayala''s age now, he would need to be named in the 25 man squad.

Korey (just) doesn''t need to be named, neither does Rudd (even closer than Korey). Steer also doesn''t need to be named in the 25. Adeyemi and Francomb both still don''t need to be named.

Which I think leaves us totalling 23 over 21''s so 2 places spare.

[Twitchy 0]

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

Due to Ayala''s age now, he would need to be named in the 25 man squad.

Korey (just) doesn''t need to be named, neither does Rudd (even closer than Korey). Steer also doesn''t need to be named in the 25. Adeyemi and Francomb both still don''t need to be named.

Which I think leaves us totalling 23 over 21''s so 2 places spare.

[/quote]

Reading the gaffer''s post match quotes he may be

waiting on the outcome of a potential transfer before letting young Dani

head to Forest Slim.

[Felixfan 53]

Hughton and board said to be mulling this over. Let''s hope they read this thread and keep Ayala.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

cheers twitchy.

 

But with 2 places still spare and the squad as it stands, things aren''t too bad on paper if Ayala stays.

 

Will we fill the 25 places?

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

some people are suggesting it sounds like Ayala has already gone to Forest on season loan and we may go with only 4 cb''s[:(]

[Evesham Canary 0]

[quote user="Monty13"]To be honest this seems like a good idea, provided that it is the precursor for a better player being brought in. We have Turner, Ward and Bennet who would seem to all be in the managers plans for this year based on friendlies and transfer dealings (Jury is maybe still out on Barnett but as potentially 5th choice CB, are people really that bothered if he is still here?) so if someone else came in , say we were to sign Curtis Davis, Ayala would be getting little game time. At 21 a years loan to a Championship Club after an injury hit season could be just what he needs to push his career on. However if we don''t get another CB I would be a little perplexed why we would do this.[/quote]

Agree entirely with this.

Whilst we looked most solid (keeping 2 of our 3 clean sheets!) when Ayala was paired with Zak in Jan last year - he did have some shaky moments, he was absolutely appalling against MK Dons and some of his tackling left something to be desired - gave away a pen at WBA with an awful tackle. A year (hopefully injury free) playing regularly at Champs level would be a good thing. Judging by Hughton''s teams so far I think Bennett and Turner will be first choice with Ward next in line. Therefore, Ayala may only get to play a handful of games this season which would not help is development.

Judging by the Hughton interview post MK Dons I would say another CB arriving isn''t that likely. If he feels he doesn''t need 5 then he is unlikely to loan out Ayala and then buy in a 5th CB - don''t forget that Martin & Whitaker can also play CB if required.

[Gnasher 0]

From what i''ve seen of Ayala last season he would fast become one of my favourite players, whilst he obviously needs some experience he has the attributes that would compose a quality centre back after some games.

I would be wary of loaning him as I don''t have much faith in Ward/Barnett but I really believe we have great potential in Ayala and Bennett, but I have belief in Hughtons pick so hopefully we have a good start!!!

[Six Pack 92]

For me, Russell Martin and Whitbread were our best CB pairing last season as they gave me the most confidence. Russell Martin is more than just "cover" his positioning was "spot on" most times and made many last ditch clearances just by being in the right place. He also seem to marshal the defence when he played and contributed 2 goals. The ill directed pass against Arsenal was his only major blot. Whitebread like all of the other CB was beaten often by quicker attacking players, but was the best of the rest, was solid defensively and passed, carried & distributed the ball well out of defence.De Laet and Barnett''s main enemy were themselves. They made vital errors through either bad decision making or lapses in concentration - but apart from those "brain explosions" they are no worse than the CBs we fielded last season (apart from Martin & Whitbread) . I thought De Laet aside the errors was decent.Ayala''s strength is he passes & carries the ball well out of defence (similar to Whitebread). When defending against opposing players with ball at feet he is a massive risk - his mistiming of tackles would make him a candidate to giving away a penalty every time. Defensively he would be one of our weaker CBs.Ryan Bennett - some of his deeds on the pitch last season reminded me of someone playing local football  - not a professional player let alone a player in the premiership. He actually shy''s away from tackles & allows the opposition to shoot, gives up too easily, has no physical presence in either penalty area (defensive or opposition) and has a "weak" clearance with  both feet and head. First step for the training staff when acquiring a young player from the lower leagues (with potential) is to teach them not to ponce around and think they''re something special! If he continues along the lines of last season - Petersborough is his level !Ward - very commanding CB in physical stature only - good in the air & can occasionally win the ball on the ground against lesser players. First time I saw him play (against Watford) he actually turned his head away from an opposing player shooting ! -he''s that type of player - a liability against the standard premiership striker. His shortcomings against Liverpool are well documented - however it''s those errors that many don''t see that are disturbing - example : 1st goal conceded against Manchester City - Ward passes to Bradley Johnson who was not in a position to receive a pass - a city player (running in the right direction) gets to the ball first - 0-1 !  and Johnson got the blame for that goal - ridiculous ! Hope Hughton and his team can do something with him if they''re going to play him. But his weaknesses will always be there. I have not seen Turner or Simpson play but from last season''s CBs Russell Martin would be the only CB I have full confidence in. Obviously Whitbread & De laet are no longer here. Ayala is inexperience so loaning him out would benefit us. 

[York Canary 28]

If he can get rid of his silly tackles and stay on his feet a bit I think he could become an awesome player. Plays the ball out of defence very confidently and looks assured. Certainly wouldn''t want to sell him, but loan him by all means if he isn''t going to start for us yet. Maybe 3-6mths?

Ward has actually looked quite decent pre-season so I''d be happy with him, Turner and Bennett then Barny 4th option (though to move forward I think I''d replace him at some point)

[York Canary 28]

The only thing I''d say about Russ at CB is that we conceded a couple of goals from memory where he just didn''t get off the ground at all and was beaten to the ball in the air, but on the whole he was pretty solid. I prefer him at RB myself though and think he''s looked solid in pre-season there. He can certainly cover CB well though as can Whittaker apparently

[York Canary 28]

[quote user="Six Pack"]

 I have not seen Turner or Simpson play but from last season''s CBs Russell Martin would be the only CB I have full confidence in. Obviously Whitbread & De laet are no longer here.

Ayala is inexperience so loaning him out would benefit us.

 


[/quote]

 

Simpson? Have I missed something, did we buy a player called Simpson?

[Six Pack 92]

[quote user="York Canary"]

[quote user="Six Pack"] I have not seen Turner or Simpson play but from last season''s CBs Russell Martin would be the only CB I have full confidence in. Obviously Whitbread & De laet are no longer here. Ayala is inexperience so loaning him out would benefit us. 

[/quote]

Simpson? Have I missed something, did we buy a player called Simpson?

[/quote]Sorry York - I was blasting away on my keyboard - I mean Curtis Davis (if we buy him)

[York Canary 28]

[quote user="Six Pack"][quote user="York Canary"]

[quote user="Six Pack"]

 I have not seen Turner or Simpson play but from last season''s CBs Russell Martin would be the only CB I have full confidence in. Obviously Whitbread & De laet are no longer here.

Ayala is inexperience so loaning him out would benefit us.

 


[/quote]

Simpson? Have I missed something, did we buy a player called Simpson?

[/quote]

Sorry York - I was blasting away on my keyboard - I mean Curtis Davis (if we buy him)
[/quote]

 

Ahhh I see now! Was rumoured to be valued at £4m, which is no small amount, but I guess that''s what you pay for good British CB''s these days. That lad Vlaar at Villa could prove to be good value at the reported £3.5m or so they paid his previous club. I know a few ppl on here are disappointed we didn''t go further afield with our signings this window (so far)

 

I do think R.Bennett will prove to be a success and will benefit from the tutelage of Turner et al. A loan for Ayala could be good, but he''s also already played for Derby at that level so I''m not 100% convinced.

[smooth 114]

If he is being sent out on loan I would hope we have a new player ready to step in. Our defence was incrdeibly poor last season and if we can improve that area of our game, which I am sure Hughton plans to do, then players coming in are key.Of course Barnett and Ward will be bit part squad players. Turner and RB starting, but if Ayala is sent out it would mean we need cover, whitaker or RM are then covering too many positions. Agian key positions for new additions striker, full back and midfielder. So this would be a surprise but still would shore upour leaky defence if we bring in genuine class.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="York Canary"]The only thing I''d say about Russ at CB is that we conceded a couple of goals from memory where he just didn''t get off the ground at all and was beaten to the ball in the air, but on the whole he was pretty solid. I prefer him at RB myself though and think he''s looked solid in pre-season there. He can certainly cover CB well though as can Whittaker apparently[/quote]

More than made up for by his hundreds of goal line clearances.......

[Trawlerboy 0]

The defence was not as poor last season as most make out. The amount of pressure our backline was put under by a midfield that was either far too lightweight or lacking in quality has been addressed to some extent by Hughton with the signings of Butterfield and Snodgrass.I was happy with the centre backs that we have at the club and would rather see a full back and a ball winning midfielder who has a bit of quality on the ball signed to complete our summer transfers.I trust Hughton and Lambert''s thoughts on the centre of our defence far more than the so called experts on this messageboard.

[Scooby 0]

[quote user="Felixfan"]Not happy about this. Whitbread and Ayala our best defensive pairing last season - both either gone or going.[/quote]

Yup, what he said, with a few of these thrown in for good measure (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[smooth 114]

trawlerboy you are correct the midfield cover in front of the back four was weak and didn''t help a back four but I would say that our defence was not in a great place.Turner is a great improvement, whittaker has experience of winning and holding teams out. I do feel that with RB and Marc Tierney we have two players who will improve greatly this season.I agree with your sentiments in regard to the positions that need filling, that defensive midfielder is exactly what we need... full back and centre forward. Centre half would be a surprise but if this move is to go ahead then Hughton has seen an opportunity for us to get a good year out of Ayala and hopefully another centre half who can come in and improve our defensive set up.

[Trawlerboy 0]

[quote user="smooth"]trawlerboy you are correct the midfield cover in front of the back four was weak and didn''t help a back four but I would say that our defence was not in a great place.Turner is a great improvement, whittaker has experience of winning and holding teams out. I do feel that with RB and Marc Tierney we have two players who will improve greatly this season.I agree with your sentiments in regard to the positions that need filling, that defensive midfielder is exactly what we need... full back and centre forward. Centre half would be a surprise but if this move is to go ahead then Hughton has seen an opportunity for us to get a good year out of Ayala and hopefully another centre half who can come in and improve our defensive set up.[/quote]I too think that Hughton will probably bring in another centre back if Ayala goes out on loan for the season.  I agree with you on everything except I am not 100% confident that Tierney can do a job at this level.  For me Tierney started off last season well and put in some good performances over the first month or so, after that he appeared to be a little off the pace for me for some time prior to him picking up the injury which ruled him out for the rest of the season.  The left back position is a major concern for me at the moment.  I would love to see Naughton back if we intend to play with a flat back 4 for most of the season.

[smooth 114]

In all honestly you could go through all our team still and as LAmbert said ''none have premiership experience'' if you consider that to be 100+games.I agree Tierney is not the finished article, but I do believe with a full season he can learn a great deal and he is player who you can see improving. But when there are left backs available over Europe, we will look. As mentioned every one of our players can be improved on, there is no finished article. But in our set up Tierney can cope with a season. Central midfielder, striker and cover at his position is needed.As always the offseason is very exciting you get a real feel of where the club is going.

[I am a Banana 0]

twitter Fourthofficial saying Forest have made a bid.

[Gingerpele 0]

Well Hughton said Forest have made an inquiry and he needs a couple of days to decide wether to let Ayala go or not. Do we really need any not always very reliable at all twitter sources telling us anything else?

[Phillip J Fry 0]

People seem to forget that a defence can be improved through consistent coaching. Plenty of ''poor'' defences on paper have performed admirably through the ability of their coaches. Newcastle early last season were a great example, through consistency in personnel and a new coaching approach focused around the ability to keep clean sheets, they were the best defence in the country for about two months (before most of their defence got injured, which they couldn''t recover from). The defence might improve purely because of a new coaching attitude, the Ajax game showed how a new defensive style might improve what many consider a poor to average defence. 

[Dubai Mark 0]

Clearly two sides to this one, I''m on the side that says we should not consider loaning out Ayala, Barnett yes, but Ayala is a class act and will get better with games. After a couple of dodgy games last season he improved considerably over a relatively short number of games, and is well worth his place in our squad.

As for Ward, sure that was a horrendous performance vs Liverpool, even considering the quality he was up against, but I thought it came as a bit of a shock as upto that point in the season he had been solid and made few mistakes compared to others, and all our CB''s were subject to occasional errors. I tend to agree with the views that our midfield actually contributed more than they should have to our poor defensive record last season as at this level this is the area of the pitch where the battles are won and we lost a few, that said it''s hard to be critical generally on last season as it was a terrific season by the squad.  

So, for me if Ayala does go to Forest it will be CH''s first mistake as our Manager and I dont think he will make many! 

[Gingerpele 0]

If Hughton sees the need for signing another experienced CB, or even just sees Barnett as being higher up in the pecking order than Ayala, then sending him out on loan makes perfect sense.

Ward isn''t a bad defender, he made a few mistakes, which one of our defenders didn''t last season? after his first 8 or so games, our defensive record with him in the team was better than without, despite us not getting a clean sheet with him in the side. Although of course there is no arguing with the people who don''t rate Ward. He''s one of those players who some people just decide they don''t rate, and thats that. Turner will give us some extra experience and quality at the back, and Bennett I think and I think most others think is better than Ayala and probably 2nd or 3rd choice CB after Turner and maybe Ward.

If Ayala is going to be first choice CB at Forest its a great move for us, if he does well there, we stay up thanks to a more solid defence, Ayala can be put back in the mix and pick up more game time in the premiership.

We all though he was a bargain when we signed him from Liverpool, but very few games and two fairly long term injuries later he''s dividing opinion. The fee was rumoured to be less than £1 million wasn''t it? Why would Liverpool sell a 20 year old defender who is clearly talented for that little? Perhaps the yellows and mistakes he was picking up/making are just part of him game and will take serious work just to reduce. Or maybe he is just very injury prone, perhaps a major factor in not keeping Whitbread here was because we can''t afford two injury prone CBs, and now Hughton has come in he doesn''t want to risk one injury prone defender...

[lake district canary 0]

There are two sides to these kinds of decisions - but they are both good.   Developing a player who is not going to get regular games is a good idea.    Therefore if Ayala goes on loan it is good for him and the club.        If he stays and is cover for whoever CH wants as a central pairing then that is good for him and the club. 

 

 

There are no mistakes to be made here.  Either decision is good.    People need to realise that we have the makings of a good defence and that the defence under Lambert was not the strongest area of his management.  This new manager will have as a priority to tighten the defence, coach them in a more organised way than they were under Lambert - and they will improve.   Ward, Barnett, Turner, Martin and Ayala - a good basis for the central defence.   Maybe one more if CH deems necessary.   

 

 

Ayala out on loan or not?   Good decision - either way.

 

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="Trawlerboy"]The defence was not as poor last season as most make out. The amount of pressure our backline was put under by a midfield that was either far too lightweight or lacking in quality has been addressed to some extent by Hughton with the signings of Butterfield and Snodgrass.

I was happy with the centre backs that we have at the club and would rather see a full back and a ball winning midfielder who has a bit of quality on the ball signed to complete our summer transfers.

I trust Hughton and Lambert''s thoughts on the centre of our defence far more than the so called experts on this messageboard.


[/quote]

Now then Smudger,I mean Green Jack oh sorry i mean Trawlerboy i see old habits die hard as in a roundabout way you are defending Ward who you rate highly and having a little dig at Hoolahan who you have never liked. [;)]

[Lets be aving you! 0]

As others have suggested, this rumour could well indicate that Curtis Davies is on his way in, and that Ayala''s loan may be dependent on Davies'' arrival.

 

Not the greatest fount of knowledge on transfers, I know, but this Thursday''s edition of the Times was reporting Davies'' arrival as very probable.

[Trawlerboy 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Trawlerboy"]The defence was not as poor last season as most make out. The amount of pressure our backline was put under by a midfield that was either far too lightweight or lacking in quality has been addressed to some extent by Hughton with the signings of Butterfield and Snodgrass.I was happy with the centre backs that we have at the club and would rather see a full back and a ball winning midfielder who has a bit of quality on the ball signed to complete our summer transfers.I trust Hughton and Lambert''s thoughts on the centre of our defence far more than the so called experts on this messageboard.

[/quote]

Now then Smudger,I mean Green Jack oh sorry i mean Trawlerboy i see old habits die hard as in a roundabout way you are defending Ward who you rate highly and having a little dig at Hoolahan who you have never liked. [;)]

[/quote]Where have I had a go at Wes? I stated that I felt that both Butterfield and Snodgrass would add some strength and a little bit more quality to our midfield options this season  Wes will still have a significant part to play.Why not try adding your own view, rather than making false accusations and assumptions about people?

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Trawlerboy"]The defence was not as poor last season as most make out. The amount of pressure our backline was put under by a midfield that was either far too lightweight or lacking in quality has been addressed to some extent by Hughton with the signings of Butterfield and Snodgrass.

I was happy with the centre backs that we have at the club and would rather see a full back and a ball winning midfielder who has a bit of quality on the ball signed to complete our summer transfers.

I trust Hughton and Lambert''s thoughts on the centre of our defence far more than the so called experts on this messageboard.


[/quote]

Now then Smudger,I mean Green Jack oh sorry i mean Trawlerboy i see old habits die hard as in a roundabout way you are defending Ward who you rate highly and having a little dig at Hoolahan who you have never liked. [;)]

[/quote]

So Tilly, what do you think about our defence?