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crabbycanary

This is simply amazing

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What happens to some of you supporters when something goes wrong in your personal lives? Is it (really?) the end of the World? What happens when one of your kids makes a mistake? Do they get bawled out/ banished to the cellar, ostracized by all other family members?

For crying out loud. Whenever we lose, and lose badly, I deliberately do not come on this forum for a few hours,as it is normally carnage. When we lose, it is obvious things haven''t gone to plan, and certain people have made mistakes (be it Managers or Players)

Yesterday was not expected by anbody on here, including me, but jeez, I do despair on how some of you go about your daily lives if something goes awry. It must be tragic living in and around, some of you.

 

 

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I''m not one of the people your referring to, but you do realise this is a forum? Nearly all of the people on here won''t be acting like hey are posting....

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Completely agree.Anyone calling for a managers head after one game is a bell-end, and just showing how little they actually know about football.I am embarrassed to be associated (By virtue of posting on the same forum) with some of these whiney idiots, I really am.

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[quote user="crabbycanary"]

What happens to some of you supporters when something goes wrong in your personal lives? Is it (really?) the end of the World? What happens when one of your kids makes a mistake? Do they get bawled out/ banished to the cellar, ostracized by all other family members?

For crying out loud. Whenever we lose, and lose badly, I deliberately do not come on this forum for a few hours,as it is normally carnage. When we lose, it is obvious things haven''t gone to plan, and certain people have made mistakes (be it Managers or Players)

Yesterday was not expected by anbody on here, including me, but jeez, I do despair on how some of you go about your daily lives if something goes awry. It must be tragic living in and around, some of you.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Next.

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[quote user="morty"]Completely agree.

Anyone calling for a managers head after one game is a bell-end, and just showing how little they actually know about football.  I am embarrassed to be associated (By virtue of posting on the same forum) with some of these whiney idiots, I really am.
[/quote]

 

 

You have to admit, morty, that it was a pretty inept performance.   We had one or two last season - and this was largely the same group of players.  So you could forgive the manager for one game.  To my mind though it does set up next Saturday''s game as being critical.  Not sack the manager after one game - but if the same thing happens next week - how about after two?

 

 

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[quote user="Wiz"][quote user="crabbycanary"]

What happens to some of you supporters when something goes wrong in your personal lives? Is it (really?) the end of the World? What happens when one of your kids makes a mistake? Do they get bawled out/ banished to the cellar, ostracized by all other family members?

For crying out loud. Whenever we lose, and lose badly, I deliberately do not come on this forum for a few hours,as it is normally carnage. When we lose, it is obvious things haven''t gone to plan, and certain people have made mistakes (be it Managers or Players)

Yesterday was not expected by anbody on here, including me, but jeez, I do despair on how some of you go about your daily lives if something goes awry. It must be tragic living in and around, some of you.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Next.

[/quote]Wow, incisive stuff.Still, its good that you recognised that he was talking about the likes of you, and you totally addressed his points in a logical and concise manner.Oh wait....

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[quote user="morty"]Completely agree.

Anyone calling for a managers head after one game is a bell-end, and just showing how little they actually know about football.

I am embarrassed to be associated (By virtue of posting on the same forum) with some of these whiney idiots, I really am.
[/quote]

 

Yes it is daft, lots of us were very happy to get CH after Lambert left and  its just one game.

We have to move on and trust him to get the team selection and formation  right next sat and trust our players to come out fighting and play like we know they can and I''m confident we will bounce back against QPR.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="morty"]Completely agree.Anyone calling for a managers head after one game is a bell-end, and just showing how little they actually know about football.  I am embarrassed to be associated (By virtue of posting on the same forum) with some of these whiney idiots, I really am.[/quote]

 

 

You have to admit, morty, that it was a pretty inept performance.   We had one or two last season - and this was largely the same group of players.  So you could forgive the manager for one game.  To my mind though it does set up next Saturday''s game as being critical.  Not sack the manager after one game - but if the same thing happens next week - how about after two?

 

 

[/quote]But that is exactly the point, one performance. i repeat ONE PERFORMANCE. If we are just as shit next week then I shall be concerned, it would be silly not to.But plenty are already in the mindset that he isn''t the right man for us, and he should go, which is frankly laughable.I am not burying my head in the sand, merely using caution and common sense, and logical analysis, as opposed to behaving like a 4 year old having a tantrum.

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What sort of managers will be able to attract if we sack CH after one or two games?

Gunn was a different case as he had been in charge from January and had witnessed relegation. The new crew who then arrived (chiefly McNally) clearly didn''t favour him and that''s why he only lasted one or two games of the League One season.

 

Demanding CH''s sacking before January is embarrassing, pathetic and spoilt. It also screams of not only a TOTAL over reaction but a TOTAL ignorance of football.

Get a grip.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="morty"]Completely agree.Anyone calling for a managers head after one game is a bell-end, and just showing how little they actually know about football.  I am embarrassed to be associated (By virtue of posting on the same forum) with some of these whiney idiots, I really am.[/quote]

 

 

You have to admit, morty, that it was a pretty inept performance.   We had one or two last season - and this was largely the same group of players.  So you could forgive the manager for one game.  To my mind though it does set up next Saturday''s game as being critical.  Not sack the manager after one game - but if the same thing happens next week - how about after two?

 

 

[/quote]But that is exactly the point, one performance. i repeat ONE PERFORMANCE. If we are just as shit next week then I shall be concerned, it would be silly not to.But plenty are already in the mindset that he isn''t the right man for us, and he should go, which is frankly laughable.I am not burying my head in the sand, merely using caution and common sense, and logical analysis, as opposed to behaving like a 4 year old having a tantrum.[/quote]It''s not just ONE PERFORMANCE though is it?The last remaining games of pre season were god awful.

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Pre-season performances are not something you base your opinion of a team/manager on.

Ok our first league game was no better, but when we beat QPR next weekend pre-season won''t matter. If we play the same again, then yes, Hughton hasn''t got the reaction from the players in pre-season or in competitive play. Even so, its still only going to be two performances that matter. Pre-season is only an issue if you don''t perform properly in the real games. I''m sure there are teams who have had fantastic pre-seasons then lost their first game...

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I think we need the manager to be aware of the strength of feeling regarding his tactics and that if he doesn''t make any effort to change it AND it fails again then he is in a world of trouble.

If he makes positive changes and they don''t work, but we are at least trying different approaches then I''m happy to give him much more time.

The worry is that thus far he has stubbornly stuck to this one negative tactic regardless of it''s lack of success.

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Billabong - waiting until half time to sack CH is ridiculous!

One of the players misplaced a pass in the first ten minutes - we should have sacked him then. You don''t get anywhere in life by dithering and failing to act decisively.

Agree with OP: things went badly wrong today but to infer from this that we are certain to be relegated is silly. The one crumb of comfort that we can take from yesterday is that a 5-0 defeat rids all concerned of any pretense and solutions can be looked for with greater urgency.

BTW, if losing 5-0 wasn''t bad enough, the coach driver got lost on the way back from Craven Cottage and took us via Lords, Wembley and eventually the M4 before finding the M25! Got back at 10.30!

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[quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"][quote user="morty"][quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="morty"]Completely agree.Anyone calling for a managers head after one game is a bell-end, and just showing how little they actually know about football.  I am embarrassed to be associated (By virtue of posting on the same forum) with some of these whiney idiots, I really am.[/quote]

 

 

You have to admit, morty, that it was a pretty inept performance.   We had one or two last season - and this was largely the same group of players.  So you could forgive the manager for one game.  To my mind though it does set up next Saturday''s game as being critical.  Not sack the manager after one game - but if the same thing happens next week - how about after two?

 

 

[/quote]But that is exactly the point, one performance. i repeat ONE PERFORMANCE. If we are just as shit next week then I shall be concerned, it would be silly not to.But plenty are already in the mindset that he isn''t the right man for us, and he should go, which is frankly laughable.I am not burying my head in the sand, merely using caution and common sense, and logical analysis, as opposed to behaving like a 4 year old having a tantrum.[/quote]It''s not just ONE PERFORMANCE though is it?The last remaining games of pre season were god awful.

[/quote]Awful?Really?Apart from anything, pre season counts for diddly squit.

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[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]

What sort of managers will be able to attract if we sack CH after one or two games?

Gunn was a different case as he had been in charge from January and had witnessed relegation. The new crew who then arrived (chiefly McNally) clearly didn''t favour him and that''s why he only lasted one or two games of the League One season.

 

Demanding CH''s sacking before January is embarrassing, pathetic and spoilt. It also screams of not only a TOTAL over reaction but a TOTAL ignorance of football.

Get a grip.

[/quote]

No problem sacking a manager quickly if his philosophy is wrong and not working. Just admit the mistake and get a manager with an attacking philosophy who can bring confidence back to our players. In this league there is no time to waste. Defensive play will not only get us relegated, but will demoralise everybody associated with our great club.    

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[quote user="crabbycanary"]

What happens to some of you supporters when something goes wrong in your personal lives? Is it (really?) the end of the World? What happens when one of your kids makes a mistake? Do they get bawled out/ banished to the cellar, ostracized by all other family members?

For crying out loud. Whenever we lose, and lose badly, I deliberately do not come on this forum for a few hours,as it is normally carnage. When we lose, it is obvious things haven''t gone to plan, and certain people have made mistakes (be it Managers or Players)

Yesterday was not expected by anbody on here, including me, but jeez, I do despair on how some of you go about your daily lives if something goes awry. It must be tragic living in and around, some of you.

 

 

[/quote]Spot on.

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I am not calling for anyone''s head, but I hope that lessons will be drawn from yesterday''s failure to turn up.

 

In particular I am calling for thought on one or two tactics.

 

1) CH seems to have appreciated that we had a poor defensive record last year.His solution, to have two lines of four defending, is a well used one (like England in the Euros.) The problem is that making progress out of defence is difficult, again as England found, especially if you have few players blessed with good pace. Last year to some extent we defended by attacking, with the philosophy that if we concede more we shall score more, and in attacking you restrict the opposing teams opportunitites to get forward

I think some thought has to be given to this.

 

2) It is said that Rooney likes to play off a striker. We are trying this, but we have no consistent striker who can play off a striker, with the result that we play a midfielder there - Wes, Surman, Snodgrass, which is not the same, and really has not been very effective. I hope that his substitution yesterday shows that he realises that Snodgrass is more effective on the wing.

 

3) I believe someone said that the very nice Mr. Hughton can be very different behind the dressing room door. I hope that he was forthright and brutally honest yesterday. Players can make mistakes, but some did not seem to have any relish for the game. We succeeded last year because of the commitment of all players, their effort overcoming any pace or technical deficiencies. Whether bawling them out collectively or threatening them in individual conversation, somehow he must motivate them.

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[quote user=" Badger"]Billabong - waiting until half time to sack CH is ridiculous! One of the players misplaced a pass in the first ten minutes - we should have sacked him then. You don''t get anywhere in life by dithering and failing to act decisively. Agree with OP: things went badly wrong today but to infer from this that we are certain to be relegated is silly. The one crumb of comfort that we can take from yesterday is that a 5-0 defeat rids all concerned of any pretense and solutions can be looked for with greater urgency. BTW, if losing 5-0 wasn''t bad enough, the coach driver got lost on the way back from Craven Cottage and took us via Lords, Wembley and eventually the M4 before finding the M25! Got back at 10.30![/quote]

The trains were all stuffed up at Kings X due to a suicide at Hornsey,so all the whole station was full of hot,tired and fed up QPR,Gooners and City fans.Summed up the whole day really[:S]

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[quote user="Wiz"][quote user="crabbycanary"]

What happens to some of you supporters when something goes wrong in your personal lives? Is it (really?) the end of the World? What happens when one of your kids makes a mistake? Do they get bawled out/ banished to the cellar, ostracized by all other family members?

For crying out loud. Whenever we lose, and lose badly, I deliberately do not come on this forum for a few hours,as it is normally carnage. When we lose, it is obvious things haven''t gone to plan, and certain people have made mistakes (be it Managers or Players)

Yesterday was not expected by anbody on here, including me, but jeez, I do despair on how some of you go about your daily lives if something goes awry. It must be tragic living in and around, some of you.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Next.

[/quote]

Oh Wiz! That one word answer says a whole lot more about you, than me.

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Scientific method 101: One result cannot be classed as a trend.
You need at least three (league) matches before we can decide the trends of the season, the longer you''re willing to risk it the better. Three''s a good marker, ten would be even better.
Give it three league matches before you decide whether or not Hughton should be dismissed, one is ridiculous.

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[quote user="crabbycanary"]To get the definitive trend, surely we have to wait for 38 games?![/quote]
Indeed, but we can''t allow all 38 games to be used if we want to survive. We can''t use one result to create a trend nor can we allow all 38 games to be used that, whilst establishing the complete trend, could leave us relegated. Three games is a good indication of how the season may be going, ten games is far superior. Really, it''s a calculated gamble, you want to give the manager as much time as possible to make the team perform, but at the same time you can''t afford to let points slip away from you.
Regardless, suggesting someone should be dismissed based on one result, is utterly ridiculous. 

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[quote user="Gareth"][quote user="crabbycanary"]To get the definitive trend, surely we have to wait for 38 games?![/quote]


Indeed, but we can''t allow all 38 games to be used if we want to survive. We can''t use one result to create a trend nor can we allow all 38 games to be used that, whilst establishing the complete trend, could leave us relegated. Three games is a good indication of how the season may be going, ten games is far superior. Really, it''s a calculated gamble, you want to give the manager as much time as possible to make the team perform, but at the same time you can''t afford to let points slip away from you.


Regardless, suggesting someone should be dismissed based on one result, is utterly ridiculous. 

[/quote]

McNasty did not even need it being suggested when he sacked Gunn after one game. There is a trend if you include pre-season games, certainly in lack of goalscoring chances created, and the inability to adapt to a Plan B is glaring throughout. Pre-season preparation appears to have been poor as Holt and others look unfit, and it was also pre-season preparation that cost Gunn his job. A win against QPR is essential to put all these doubts to bed IMO.

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Time for cool heads not headless chickens. yes i am disappointed and a tad concerned but most of us were happy to get Hughton so we need to give him time even if that is getting us back next year should the worse happen. Staying up this season would have been a challenge for lambert and co as well and i see no real evidence that panicking will do anything other than cost loads of cash, and dig us deeper in the mire.

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[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Gareth"][quote user="crabbycanary"]To get the definitive trend, surely we have to wait for 38 games?![/quote]

Indeed, but we can''t allow all 38 games to be used if we want to survive. We can''t use one result to create a trend nor can we allow all 38 games to be used that, whilst establishing the complete trend, could leave us relegated. Three games is a good indication of how the season may be going, ten games is far superior. Really, it''s a calculated gamble, you want to give the manager as much time as possible to make the team perform, but at the same time you can''t afford to let points slip away from you.

Regardless, suggesting someone should be dismissed based on one result, is utterly ridiculous. 

[/quote]

McNasty did not even need it being suggested when he sacked Gunn after one game. There is a trend if you include pre-season games, certainly in lack of goalscoring chances created, and the inability to adapt to a Plan B is glaring throughout. Pre-season preparation appears to have been poor as Holt and others look unfit, and it was also pre-season preparation that cost Gunn his job. A win against QPR is essential to put all these doubts to bed IMO.

[/quote]
You mean the really great pre-season we had under Gunn? When we beat Premier League opposition? 

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[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Time for cool heads not headless chickens. yes i am disappointed and a tad concerned but most of us were happy to get Hughton so we need to give him time even if that is getting us back next year should the worse happen. Staying up this season would have been a challenge for lambert and co as well and i see no real evidence that panicking will do anything other than cost loads of cash, and dig us deeper in the mire.[/quote]

It''s not a case of panicking, just realisation that to get points we need attacking formations and adaptability during games. Playing for a point at this level and a predictable non-risk strategy will get us relegated.  If the manager won''t change then we have to change him.

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[quote user="Gareth"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Gareth"][quote user="crabbycanary"]To get the definitive trend, surely we have to wait for 38 games?![/quote]


Indeed, but we can''t allow all 38 games to be used if we want to survive. We can''t use one result to create a trend nor can we allow all 38 games to be used that, whilst establishing the complete trend, could leave us relegated. Three games is a good indication of how the season may be going, ten games is far superior. Really, it''s a calculated gamble, you want to give the manager as much time as possible to make the team perform, but at the same time you can''t afford to let points slip away from you.


Regardless, suggesting someone should be dismissed based on one result, is utterly ridiculous. 

[/quote]

McNasty did not even need it being suggested when he sacked Gunn after one game. There is a trend if you include pre-season games, certainly in lack of goalscoring chances created, and the inability to adapt to a Plan B is glaring throughout. Pre-season preparation appears to have been poor as Holt and others look unfit, and it was also pre-season preparation that cost Gunn his job. A win against QPR is essential to put all these doubts to bed IMO.

[/quote]


You mean the really great pre-season we had under Gunn? When we beat Premier League opposition? 

[/quote]

You''re missing the point. It''s not about results in pre-season, but preparation. We beat Celtic away, remember ? 

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[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Gareth"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Gareth"][quote user="crabbycanary"]To get the definitive trend, surely we have to wait for 38 games?![/quote]

Indeed, but we can''t allow all 38 games to be used if we want to survive. We can''t use one result to create a trend nor can we allow all 38 games to be used that, whilst establishing the complete trend, could leave us relegated. Three games is a good indication of how the season may be going, ten games is far superior. Really, it''s a calculated gamble, you want to give the manager as much time as possible to make the team perform, but at the same time you can''t afford to let points slip away from you.

Regardless, suggesting someone should be dismissed based on one result, is utterly ridiculous. 

[/quote]

McNasty did not even need it being suggested when he sacked Gunn after one game. There is a trend if you include pre-season games, certainly in lack of goalscoring chances created, and the inability to adapt to a Plan B is glaring throughout. Pre-season preparation appears to have been poor as Holt and others look unfit, and it was also pre-season preparation that cost Gunn his job. A win against QPR is essential to put all these doubts to bed IMO.

[/quote]

You mean the really great pre-season we had under Gunn? When we beat Premier League opposition? 

[/quote]

You''re missing the point. It''s not about results in pre-season, but preparation. We beat Celtic away, remember ? 

[/quote]
I know, I know. I was just being pedantic. [:P] I''m not suggesting that, if results continue to be poor, we shouldn''t dismiss Hughton, but surely saying he should be dismissed based on one league game and the pre-season is very harsh?

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[quote user="Gareth"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Gareth"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Gareth"][quote user="crabbycanary"]To get the definitive trend, surely we have to wait for 38 games?![/quote]


Indeed, but we can''t allow all 38 games to be used if we want to survive. We can''t use one result to create a trend nor can we allow all 38 games to be used that, whilst establishing the complete trend, could leave us relegated. Three games is a good indication of how the season may be going, ten games is far superior. Really, it''s a calculated gamble, you want to give the manager as much time as possible to make the team perform, but at the same time you can''t afford to let points slip away from you.


Regardless, suggesting someone should be dismissed based on one result, is utterly ridiculous. 

[/quote]

McNasty did not even need it being suggested when he sacked Gunn after one game. There is a trend if you include pre-season games, certainly in lack of goalscoring chances created, and the inability to adapt to a Plan B is glaring throughout. Pre-season preparation appears to have been poor as Holt and others look unfit, and it was also pre-season preparation that cost Gunn his job. A win against QPR is essential to put all these doubts to bed IMO.

[/quote]


You mean the really great pre-season we had under Gunn? When we beat Premier League opposition? 

[/quote]

You''re missing the point. It''s not about results in pre-season, but preparation. We beat Celtic away, remember ? 

[/quote]


I know, I know. I was just being pedantic. [:P] I''m not suggesting that, if results continue to be poor, we shouldn''t dismiss Hughton, but surely saying he should be dismissed based on one league game and the pre-season is very harsh?

[/quote]

I thought it was very harsh dismissing Gunn, especially as we had just beaten Yeovil 4-1 in the next game (which I was at incidentally as well as the next one at Exeter), but McNally had already set the ball rolling as he had seen the writing on the wall after the 7-1. Will McNally be more patient this time ?  I think so, mainly because of the financial commitments he has made in bringing Hughton in and of course he does not have a ready-made replacement. 

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