Militant Canary 0 Posted August 20, 2012 What I say about Rodgers is this:What do we know about him? Two things. 1. He has no plan B. 2. Not as good as he''s made out to be or thinks he is.You are absolutely right. We can''t judge too much from pre-season or fans opinions. Nonetheless, it does provide an indication of what Dani Pacheco offers. Even some of the more cynical must surely be fairly impressed by his performance against Roma? But, yes. It can not be our final decision on him.I would have to disagree with you on your final point. If you''re asking for Lionel Messi? He is not Lionel Messi. He is talented. He may not always be at 100% effective, but he has the potential and capacity to add new dimensions to our play. And, based on what I can see, he''s hungry to prove himself. Its that obvious hunger that leads me to think that the Dani Pacheco we''d get now is not the Dani Pacheco we had before. But then, its all up in the air and I respect your opinion, I could be wrong. IF (big if) we sign him, I know you''ll give him your full support like all our team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted August 20, 2012 [quote user="Militant Canary"]What I say about Rodgers is this:What do we know about him? Two things. 1. He has no plan B. 2. Not as good as he''s made out to be or thinks he is.You are absolutely right. We can''t judge too much from pre-season or fans opinions. Nonetheless, it does provide an indication of what Dani Pacheco offers. Even some of the more cynical must surely be fairly impressed by his performance against Roma? But, yes. It can not be our final decision on him.I would have to disagree with you on your final point. If you''re asking for Lionel Messi? He is not Lionel Messi. He is talented. He may not always be at 100% effective, but he has the potential and capacity to add new dimensions to our play. And, based on what I can see, he''s hungry to prove himself. Its that obvious hunger that leads me to think that the Dani Pacheco we''d get now is not the Dani Pacheco we had before. But then, its all up in the air and I respect your opinion, I could be wrong. IF (big if) we sign him, I know you''ll give him your full support like all our team.[/quote]Good reasoned reply[Y]Of course I would support him fully.And I am coming round to the way of thinking that he could be worth a punt if cheap. But I don''t think he is the vital missing piece of the jigsaw that some people are considering him to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Six Pack 92 Posted August 20, 2012 [quote user="morty"][quote user="Rob"]We should just get him on a loan with an option to buy him if people are so doubtful that he''ll cut it in the Prem[/quote]Is he really what we need right now though?Is he a striker, a roving attacking midfielder?Is he better than Snodgrass, Hoolahan, Jackson?[/quote]In the role of roving attacking midfielder Morty - Jackson is a striker so not that position; would not be as good as Hoolahan but however would be head & shoulders above Snodgrass in that position Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted August 20, 2012 [quote user="Six Pack"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Rob"]We should just get him on a loan with an option to buy him if people are so doubtful that he''ll cut it in the Prem[/quote]Is he really what we need right now though?Is he a striker, a roving attacking midfielder?Is he better than Snodgrass, Hoolahan, Jackson?[/quote]In the role of roving attacking midfielder Morty - Jackson is a striker so not that position; would not be as good as Hoolahan but however would be head & shoulders above Snodgrass in that position[/quote]My point was that I wasn''t sure of his best position, so was comparing him with both a striker and a creative midfielder.I haven''t seen enough of Snodgrass to either agree or disagree with that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Militant Canary 0 Posted August 20, 2012 Thanks, Mort. Likewise.I''m fairly certain he would be cheap.I agree. I don''t necessarily think he is the missing piece, but then, what is the missing piece? Central defensive midfielder? Striker? Roving Centre Forward? I have a few ideas, but...What annoyed me about Saturday was the lethargy, the lack of desire and fight. I know this won''t be a popular decision, but based on that display, I''d throw Korey Smith into the mix. To a large extent, however, you simply can''t judge on the first game. Bolton or Blackburn (I forget which) beat QPR 4:0 on the first day last season, but QPR stayed up.Mostly, I just think that we were still in pre-season, but Fulham were starting proper. It could be the wake up call that was needed and, therefore, the best thing that could have happened.Either way, Holt has a lot to answer for. He got his new contract and currently retains the captaincy. Yet, since the whole contract episode, he has displayed no leadership and no effort. The only reason he got what he wanted was because he had us over a barrel- Lambert leaving, new manager etc. With Calderwood as our Assistant Manager, however, I predict that Holt will be given a fair go, but, if he continues to be unimpressive, he''s as good as gone.Sorry. Turned into a rant about nothing in particular. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted August 20, 2012 [quote user="Militant Canary"]Thanks, Mort. Likewise.I''m fairly certain he would be cheap.I agree. I don''t necessarily think he is the missing piece, but then, what is the missing piece? Central defensive midfielder? Striker? Roving Centre Forward? I have a few ideas, but...What annoyed me about Saturday was the lethargy, the lack of desire and fight. I know this won''t be a popular decision, but based on that display, I''d throw Korey Smith into the mix. To a large extent, however, you simply can''t judge on the first game. Bolton or Blackburn (I forget which) beat QPR 4:0 on the first day last season, but QPR stayed up.Mostly, I just think that we were still in pre-season, but Fulham were starting proper. It could be the wake up call that was needed and, therefore, the best thing that could have happened.Either way, Holt has a lot to answer for. He got his new contract and currently retains the captaincy. Yet, since the whole contract episode, he has displayed no leadership and no effort. The only reason he got what he wanted was because he had us over a barrel- Lambert leaving, new manager etc. With Calderwood as our Assistant Manager, however, I predict that Holt will be given a fair go, but, if he continues to be unimpressive, he''s as good as gone.Sorry. Turned into a rant about nothing in particular.[/quote]Lets not kid ourselves lol, the missing piece is Paul Lambert!Actually agree on your point about Korey, throw in a young, hungry player eager to prove himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Militant Canary 0 Posted August 20, 2012 Ha! Come on! Hughton''s an excellent manager. He''ll pull it together- he''s been in much worse situations as a manager, after all.I think everyone, both the fans and, more importantly, the PLAYERS need to let go of Lambert. He was great, but he''s gone (and he lost his first game in charge of Villa). You play for Hughton now! Similar things happen in the military when a popular officer or senior NCO move on or retire- a certain malaise as the ranks get used to the new guy. A good show of force usually sorts things out, though! Take it from someone who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted August 20, 2012 [quote user="Militant Canary"]Ha! Come on! Hughton''s an excellent manager. He''ll pull it together- he''s been in much worse situations as a manager, after all.I think everyone, both the fans and, more importantly, the PLAYERS need to let go of Lambert. He was great, but he''s gone (and he lost his first game in charge of Villa). You play for Hughton now! Similar things happen in the military when a popular officer or senior NCO move on or retire- a certain malaise as the ranks get used to the new guy. A good show of force usually sorts things out, though! Take it from someone who knows.[/quote]Again, I agree, I think its the players that need to open themselves up to a new way of thinking, new tactics etc. If they are moping around whining "Hmmmph, we never did it this way under the old gaffer" then they won''t be lasting long here.The trouble is that intelligence in footballers doesn''t abound, and massive egos do!And totally take your point about the military lol! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Militant Canary 0 Posted August 20, 2012 Agreed about intelligence in footballers (and fans and pundits for that matter!), but I don''t necessarily think that universally applies to our players.Like I say, Holt has a lot to answer for in this case because if there is definitely one big ego (and one big idiot) in the dressing room, its him. Over the summer he did much to disrupt an already confused situation and he needs to start pulling his weight to earn what he now has. It may even be the case that he is now unbalancing the dressing room due to ill-feeling or envy about the whole contract rubbish. Like I say, if he doesn''t start earning it, given who we have in our management team, they will not be sympathetic for long. Ultimately, I think the whole Lambert and Holt debacles during the summer show that unconditional faith and love is a bad idea in football, especially if you place that love and faith in someone who doesn''t really deserve it.Are you in the services, Mort?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted August 20, 2012 [quote user="Militant Canary"]Agreed about intelligence in footballers (and fans and pundits for that matter!), but I don''t necessarily think that universally applies to our players.Like I say, Holt has a lot to answer for in this case because if there is definitely one big ego (and one big idiot) in the dressing room, its him. Over the summer he did much to disrupt an already confused situation and he needs to start pulling his weight to earn what he now has. It may even be the case that he is now unbalancing the dressing room due to ill-feeling or envy about the whole contract rubbish. Like I say, if he doesn''t start earning it, given who we have in our management team, they will not be sympathetic for long. Ultimately, I think the whole Lambert and Holt debacles during the summer show that unconditional faith and love is a bad idea in football, especially if you place that love and faith in someone who doesn''t really deserve it.Are you in the services, Mort?![/quote]No I don''t think it applies universally to our players, but I suspect there will be a few pockets of resistance within the group. They will be thinking, as a lot of fans do, "If it aint broke, theres nothing to fix"But the fact is, there is no exact formula to this, every manager has a different way of doing things, thats just human nature. If there was a formula then every single manager would follow exactly the same one.As much as I like Grant Holt, I agree that his ego has got the better of him a bit, and if Hughton doesn''t handle him right, it could be detrimental to the group and togetherness.I was in the RAF for 22 years, left 4 years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Militant Canary 0 Posted August 20, 2012 Again, I agree. In fact, I think Holt being detrimental to the group may have already happened.The RAF, eh? Retired now? What did you do? Were you in the Regiment? They''re good, but can''t march for s**t! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted August 20, 2012 [quote user="Militant Canary"]Again, I agree. In fact, I think Holt being detrimental to the group may have already happened.The RAF, eh? Retired now? What did you do? Were you in the Regiment? They''re good, but can''t march for s**t![/quote]That is almost as big a job for managers as actual tactics, the handling of egos!Unfortunately to excel at any sport you have to have a certain amount of ego, and an abundance of self belief, couple that with not being the sharpest tool in the shed , and you have a difficult individual to handle!Nah, electrical engineer, I work offshore now. No, they can''t march for shit lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Militant Canary 0 Posted August 20, 2012 [quote user="morty"][quote user="Militant Canary"]Again, I agree. In fact, I think Holt being detrimental to the group may have already happened.The RAF, eh? Retired now? What did you do? Were you in the Regiment? They''re good, but can''t march for s**t![/quote]That is almost as big a job for managers as actual tactics, the handling of egos!Unfortunately to excel at any sport you have to have a certain amount of ego, and an abundance of self belief, couple that with not being the sharpest tool in the shed , and you have a difficult individual to handle!Nah, electrical engineer, I work offshore now. No, they can''t march for shit lol.[/quote]Yep! I think you just summed up our Grant Holt these days. Don''t think it was always the case, though. I actually think he had some humility. After the 7:1 defeat to Colchester comes to mind.Electrical Engineer? Respect. Good work and smart work. Useful for Civ street, I''d imagine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boris 56 Posted August 20, 2012 Dany Pacheco just start with numnebr 9 for Liverpool u21 vs WOlves live on liverpooltv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bws Cat 0 Posted August 20, 2012 Looks like Pacheco is staying then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Militant Canary 0 Posted August 20, 2012 Don''t be so sure. If he''s playing a reserve/U21 match, he needs to have a number, doesn''t he? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
