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Canary02 IV

QPR tactics - High pressing and Simeon Jackson.

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[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Good to see you still have no respect whatsoever for anybodies opinion on football that takes a different stance to yours.

[/quote]

Thats a bit rich coming from one of the Borg.

[/quote]

And so says the poster who accused me of making vacuus posts on threads.

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Something different -

Ruddy

Francomb. Martin. Bennett. Garrido.

Bennett. Johnson. Howson. Surman. .

Jackson. Vaughan.

Subs: Rudd. Ward. Hoolahan. Smith. Lappin. Holt. Morison.

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I don''t mind you having a different opinion Til, but perhaps you, or one of the many people who agree with your opinion on Jackson could present some facts to support your theories of why Jackson is no good in the Premier League?  The available stats seem to give us an exact counter view on the one that that yourself and others share.

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Yes play Jackson, he runs his socks off, makes good forward runs, is the only forward player who really can hold up the ball very well, we need him in the team to play well and press forward with pace.

I think he''s understimated, he makes things happen, a handfull for any defence ... come on Mr Hughton before it''s too late !

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It''s not who we play, it''s how we play. I agree with the High Pressing, also feel we should play with a bit more ''zip'' it was noticeable against Fulham that the game sped up when they were in possession. I would also like to see our players ''get stuck in''. Not one booking and a 0-5 lose says it all.   

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Canary02 IV"] Why do you think Jackson is awful, and why do you think he wouldn''t be an asset in a high pressing formation?[/quote]

Because for every nine out of ten chances he has he cannot hit a cow''s backside with a banjo and that is just not good enough in the Premiership.

[/quote]Bump [:S]

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The title of this thread emphasis'' why we were much better today than last week!

 

While Jacksons finishing isn''t good enough much of the time his pace and general nuisance quality makes him a good asset for the team!

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[quote user="kingsway"]

The title of this thread emphasis'' why we were much better today than last week!

 

While Jacksons finishing isn''t good enough much of the time his pace and general nuisance quality makes him a good asset for the team!

[/quote]He has a better chance to goals conversion ratio than most strikers and he is also not reliant upon other players creating chances for him. Jackson can create for himself, as well as giving the opposition back four the run around and creating plenty of time and space on the ball for his team mates. Compare his strike rate to that of the much heralded James Vaughan and perhaps it will show how right Hughton was to let Vaughan go on loan and play Jackson.  It is a myth that Jackson misses lots of chances and many of the chances he does miss the majority of strikers lack of pace would mean that they would not even get within yards of the ball, let alone convert the chance.We will of course need to vary our method of attack though, as top quality defenders are aware of Jacksons strengths and weaknesses. Morison will still be needed and I think it is likely that we will see another striker too, unless Chris Martin can start showing he can too perform at this level. 

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[quote user="Trawlerboy"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Canary02 IV"] Why do you think Jackson is awful, and why do you think he wouldn''t be an asset in a high pressing formation?[/quote]

Because for every nine out of ten chances he has he cannot hit a cow''s backside with a banjo and that is just not good enough in the Premiership.

[/quote]

Bump [:S]


[/quote]

Well Smudger what a surprise at you bumping this thread.First let me just say that Jackson had what was probably his best game in a City shirt if you look further than the influence the goals against Derby in injury time and the promotion goal v Pompey.However i stand by my opinion that he is not consistent enough in front of goal and fluffs his chances on far too many occassions.Yesterday his goal was a gift of slack marking at the back post from less then six yards following a super cross from Pilkington.Yes he was on the spot to accept the chance and he made no mistake.His overall game yesterday was what i would expect to see every time he plays but i honestly have my doubts even if he plays week in and week out.I did note the miss right in front of an open goal from a Snodgrass cross in the second half and also having turned the defender to create an opening he shot low and hard into the side netting when in all honesty he should have at least forced the keeper into a save.There was also the feeble shot well wide of the keepers right hand post also in the second half. You may think i am being critical of someone who i said had his best game in a City shirt but maybe one of those chances cost us the full three points.I suspect others will say it was the QPR penalty "gift" from Mr.Clattenberg.

Anyway Smudger so glad that on yesterdays performance you feel you have claimed the moral high ground but as they say even a stopped clock is right twice in one day.I suppose your day would have been complete if Ward had been playing and McNamee had supplied to cross for Jackson to score.[;)]

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I have never understood the stick and lack of game time of Jackson, his work ethic, finishing and overall game play is a damn sight better than that of Morrison. If Jackson had the same numbe of starts as Morrison last season I would bet my house Jackson would have scored the same if not more than him.

I think If we keep to the same starting 11 as sat with the added bonus of Tetty I think we will have a verry good side I''m not sure who I would drop for Tetty tho I was ready to cast Johnson to the reserves after the fulham game but thought he had blinder on sat!

Well done jacko hope it continues for ur sale and ours

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="Trawlerboy"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Canary02 IV"] Why do you think Jackson is awful, and why do you think he wouldn''t be an asset in a high pressing formation?[/quote]

Because for every nine out of ten chances he has he cannot hit a cow''s backside with a banjo and that is just not good enough in the Premiership.

[/quote]

Bump [:S]


[/quote]

Well Smudger what a surprise at you bumping this thread.First let me just say that Jackson had what was probably his best game in a City shirt if you look further than the influence the goals against Derby in injury time and the promotion goal v Pompey.However i stand by my opinion that he is not consistent enough in front of goal and fluffs his chances on far too many occassions.Yesterday his goal was a gift of slack marking at the back post from less then six yards following a super cross from Pilkington.Yes he was on the spot to accept the chance and he made no mistake.His overall game yesterday was what i would expect to see every time he plays but i honestly have my doubts even if he plays week in and week out.I did note the miss right in front of an open goal from a Snodgrass cross in the second half and also having turned the defender to create an opening he shot low and hard into the side netting when in all honesty he should have at least forced the keeper into a save.There was also the feeble shot well wide of the keepers right hand post also in the second half. You may think i am being critical of someone who i said had his best game in a City shirt but maybe one of those chances cost us the full three points.I suspect others will say it was the QPR penalty "gift" from Mr.Clattenberg.

Anyway Smudger so glad that on yesterdays performance you feel you have claimed the moral high ground but as they say even a stopped clock is right twice in one day.I suppose your day would have been complete if Ward had been playing and McNamee had supplied to cross for Jackson to score.[;)]

[/quote]

Before you decided to block me on Twitter Smudger i had spotted the word for word quote from on here so any doubt that there was with regard to Trawlerboy being you has disappeared but then again iam just a "dim wit ex plod" i believe you said in a Tweet.

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[quote user="barclay_boy111"]I have never understood the stick and lack of game time of Jackson, his work ethic, finishing and overall game play is a damn sight better than that of Morison.If Jackson had the same numbe of starts as Morison last season I would bet my house Jackson would have scored the same if not more than him.[/quote]Funny how the stats for the last 2 years completely disprove that suggestion.Last season:Jackson = 948 league mins, 3 goals = goal every 316 mins (a goal every 3.51 games)Morison = 2102 league mins, 9 goals = goal every 234 mins (a goal every 2.6 games)2010/2011Jackson = 38 games, 13 goals = goal every 2.92 gamesMorison = 40 games, 15 goals = goal every 2.67 gamesAlso bear in mind that Jackson was in our side compared to the pretty rough Millwall team that Moro was in that year as well.So based on these stats along with my own views on this, I have to completely disagree with you on the suggestion that with more game time Jackson would outscore Moro.Jackson may have a better work rate etc, but Moro has the better finishing and is more likely to put the ball in the back of the net when given the chance.Let''s hope that you''re nowhere near a bookies as you could end up homeless with the sort of bet you''re looking to make...

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="barclay_boy111"]I have never understood the stick and lack of game time of Jackson, his work ethic, finishing and overall game play is a damn sight better than that of Morison.If Jackson had the same numbe of starts as Morison last season I would bet my house Jackson would have scored the same if not more than him.[/quote]Funny how the stats for the last 2 years completely disprove that suggestion.Last season:Jackson = 948 league mins, 3 goals = goal every 316 mins (a goal every 3.51 games)Morison = 2102 league mins, 9 goals = goal every 234 mins (a goal every 2.6 games)2010/2011Jackson = 38 games, 13 goals = goal every 2.92 gamesMorison = 40 games, 15 goals = goal every 2.67 gamesAlso bear in mind that Jackson was in our side compared to the pretty rough Millwall team that Moro was in that year as well.So based on these stats along with my own views on this, I have to completely disagree with you on the suggestion that with more game time Jackson would outscore Moro.Jackson may have a better work rate etc, but Moro has the better finishing and is more likely to put the ball in the back of the net when given the chance.Let''s hope that you''re nowhere near a bookies as you could end up homeless with the sort of bet you''re looking to make...[/quote]Obviously stats posted by somebody who has never played football, or perhaps has never had to understand how difficult it is to be in and out of a side or make a positive impact as a sub.A fact is that Simeon Jackson has never been given a run of 10 consecutive starts for NCFC and to judge any striker on such limited chances is scandalous. Another fact, 17 goals in 62 games for NCFC, although I would guess that less than half of these were starts.Simeon Jackson made his debut for the club in a 3-2 home loss to Watford on 6 August 2010. He scored his first goal for the club against Swansea on 21st August 2010.  Paul Lambert used Jackson as an impact substitute due to the form and partnership of Grant Holt and Chris Martin during NCFC''s season in the Championship.  Jackson was given a start against Bristol City and scored a brace, with a goal in each half at Ashton Gate.  Jackson started the following four games, in favour of Martin, scoring his 4th goal of the season against Middlesborough at Carrow Road, only to be dropped once again by Lambert after the defeat at Cardiff the following weekend.After a few months of coming on from the bench and little time on the pitch, on 2nd April 2011, Jackson scored his first hatrick for Norwich after coming on as a

sub and scoring three times in the last twenty minutes of the

match against Scunthorpe United at Carrow Road.He went on to score the goal which clinched NCFC promotion to the Premier League, with a late winner against Portsmouth at Fratton Park to acclaim from watching TV pundit Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink..Jackson made his Premier League debut on 21st August 2011, as a second-half substitute for Chris Martin in the second game of the season against Stoke City.  Following his Premier League debut, Jackson began to struggle finding

minutes in the team, he did not play a minute of football in the league

until 1st October, when he came on as a second half sub against Man Utd at Old Trafford.  Jackson made his first start in the Premier League on 26th November 2011, when he played in a 2–1 victory over QPR at Carrow Road.  Jackson scored his first Premier League goal on 20th December against Wolves at Molineux, when he converted from a Steve Morison cross one minute after coming on from the bench.  Jackson came on again as a second half sub at home to Fulham on 31st December, scoring the injury time equaliser to earn Norwich a share of the points in a 1-1 home draw.  In the fourth round of the FA Cup Norwich were drawn against West Brom away.  Jackson came off the bench in the 65th minute of the game with it being tied

at 1-1.  He scored the winning goal in the 85th minute to take the Canaries into

the fifth round for the first time in many years. After failing to make any kind of appearance for almost a month, Jackson returned

to the starting line up on May 5th, in a 3-3 draw against Arsenal at the Emirates.  The following week Lamber gave Jackson a start in the final game of the season at home to Aston Villa.  The game ended in a 2-0 home victory with Jackson and Grant Holt the scorers.  Jackson finished the 2011–12 campaign for Norwich having made 22

appearances, starting in 10 of those. He scored three goals and

registered two assists, with 34 shots on goal in his debut Premier

League season.

Now I would say that those are pretty impressive stats from a player who has not been given a fair run in the team.I think that Jackson has shown more than enough to warrant a starting run in the team of a period that is a little longer than just 3 or 4 matches.  Until Jackson has been given a run of at least 10 starts he has not been given enough chance to show what he can do.Those who try to argue otherwise are just showing their total ignorance of how difficult it is having a positive impact upon a team from the bench.  By all means add another striker to the squad, but let''s start giving Jackson a fair crack of the whip Hughton.

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Ok, I''ll bite despite the unnecessarily condescending opening sentence...I agree that he hasn''t had a 10 game run of starts in the two years he''s been here, the longest is a 7 game run starting vs Leicester on 28/09/10 up to Burnley on 06/11/10, that being said, he''s still had plenty of opportunity to demonstrate what he can do.Out of the 61 apps he''s made in the league, 31 of those have been starts with the other 30 from the bench (51% starts vs bench apps), and last season out of the 22 games he played, there were 12 starts in those games (55% starts vs bench apps).Are you honestly going to claim that he''s not had a good enough opportunity to prove himself based on this?The key reason that he hasn''t had longer spells on a regular basis is purely because he hasn''t performed consisently when given the games, hence why the manager has kept ''yo-yo-ing'' him in and out of the side.What really frustrates me here is that Jackson HAS been given over a dozen starts in the prem (as well as a further 10 sub apps) to prove if he''s good enough of not at this level (and isn''t IMHO), yet Chris Martin got given just 3 starts (1 sub app) and apparently this is enough for most fans to dimiss him from our plans. Why can Jackson get 4 times more opporunities at this level (and do very little with it) but have fans saying he hasn''t had a fair run, but somehow Martin has despite having only being given a quarter of the games Jackson has????What''s more is that out of the three league goals Jackson scored last season, only 1 of them was against vaguely decent opposition (Fulham), the other two were against two of last seasons worst teams (Villa and Wolves).Up until Lambert''s departure, most fans were convinced he could do very little wrong, and backed the vast majority of his choices to the hilt, but now suddenly Jackson hasn''t been given a fair shot...sorry but I just don''t agree. He simply isn''t a prem level striker, that''s not a slur on the guy, just a simple opinion on his ability level in that he''s a CCC player at best.Lambert didn''t think he was good enough to play consisently at this level which is why players like Holt and Moro got twice as much playing time, and why it appears that Hughton is also looking for another striker despite both the aforementioned players still being on our books. Jackson often misses good goalscoring opportunities and is very erratic and often uncertain when in front of goal, what mitigates this for many fans is his work rate and play off the ball, which is all well and good, but if you can''t hit the target when given the chance then you''re failing to perform the strikers primary role - scoring goals. Even players known for their team play and assist work such as Bergkamp would easily hit double figures and look confident when on the ball, and whilst there is a clear ability gap between the likes of Bergkamp and Jackson, there doesn''t need to be such a gap regarding confidence in front of goal or finishing simple 1-on-1 chances.As a squad player he''s fine, and in certain situations his movement can be useful - especially as an impact sub to run a tired defence around, but he''s not strong enough overall as a player to hold down a regular place in a prem starting XI (again IMHO).

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With his pace and freshness, coming on late against tired defenders Jackson should score more than if he plays a full game. It certainly worked when he had that flurry in the last 10-12 games of the Champs season.  Morison is definitely the better 90 minute player IMO.  

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The problem is that alot of fans forget that players can improve.    Jackson is a trier and works probably harder than any one else at his game.   He has everything to be a top striker. With a bit more maturity and the confidence that would come from being given a run in the team from the beginning of matches - he will get that extra bit of composure in front of goal.    I think he will break through this season to become one of the first names on the team sheet each week.

 

 

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[quote user="paul moy"]With his pace and freshness, coming on late against tired defenders Jackson should score more than if he plays a full game. It certainly worked when he had that flurry in the last 10-12 games of the Champs season.  Morison is definitely the better 90 minute player IMO.  [/quote]Again an NCFC fan talking out of their backside. It was actually the last 8 games of the Championship season that Jackson was involved in.Here are the fixtures towards the end of the 2010/11 season.

April

Sat 2 Scunthorpe (H)              Jackson came on as sub, last 20 mins - hatrick

Sat 9 Swansea (A)                    http://www.teamtalk.com/match/report/978/6862289  Jackson was not in the starting line-up at The Liberty

Tue 12 Watford (A)                http://www.football.co.uk/watford/team_lineups__watford_v_norwich_city_12_apr_2011_rss1641246.shtml

                                                  Again Jackson entered the game second half as a sub for the injured Sam Vokes if I remember correctly - scored

                                                  the equaliser to ear us a 2-2 draw.

Sat 16 Nottm Forest (H)        Jackson starts, no goals

Sat 23 Ipswich (A)                  Jackson starts and scores one goal in five

Mon 25 Derby (H)                 Jackson starts - hatrick

Sat 30 Portsmouth (A)          Jackson starts and scores the only goal of the game

May

Sun 8 Coventry (H)                Jackson starts - no goals

Where is the correlation that Jackson done better from the bench than he did when starting games?

Unless somebody can prove otherwise, I do not believe that Jackson has started more than 5 consecutive games for NCFC since he signed for us. It is a good job that all NCFC players are not judged as harshly as Jackson has been by some of the experts on this messageboard.

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[quote user="Mike"]Jackson was your best player IMO against us.[/quote]Nice to get an objective view from a QPR fan I assume?

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Blimey Smudger calm yourself down before you attract the attention of Peter The Deleter.All this running round the messageboard trashing anyone and everything who does not agree with your thoughts will only result in you having to get out one of your other identities.

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I have not trashed anything - just posted some facts Plod.Perhaps you could identify these games where Jackson has had a longer run in the NCFC team than 5 starts? As you are such an expert on him and his goal scoring ratio, I am sure that you will have all of the stats readily to hand?

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[quote user="Trawlerboy"]I have not trashed anything - just posted some facts Plod.

Perhaps you could identify these games where Jackson has had a longer run in the NCFC team than 5 starts? As you are such an expert on him and his goal scoring ratio, I am sure that you will have all of the stats readily to hand?


[/quote]

I have no stats on Jackson and i think you must be getting confused with somebody else with this ramble about 5 starts because it certainly does not relate to anything whatsoever that i have posted.

All i have ever said about Jackson is that i do not consider him to be a good enough Premiership striker and that for every ten chances that come his way he could not hit a cows backside with a banjo.

That is my opinion and if you do not like it little man i really do not think i will lose any sleep tonight over it.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Trawlerboy"]I have not trashed anything - just posted some facts Plod.Perhaps you could identify these games where Jackson has had a longer run in the NCFC team than 5 starts? As you are such an expert on him and his goal scoring ratio, I am sure that you will have all of the stats readily to hand?

[/quote]

I have no stats on Jackson and i think you must be getting confused with somebody else with this ramble about 5 starts because it certainly does not relate to anything whatsoever that i have posted.

All i have ever said about Jackson is that i do not consider him to be a good enough Premiership striker and that for every ten chances that come his way he could not hit a cows backside with a banjo.

[/quote]So you have counted the number of chances that Jackson has had, subtracted the number of goals he has scored and came up with this logical summary on his ability all by yourself did you?As for the consecutive starts being the most that he has had for us, I wonder if you will judge any new striker on such a limited run in the team?Warning to all strikers thinking of signing for NCFC.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Trawlerboy"]I have not trashed anything - just posted some facts Plod.

Perhaps you could identify these games where Jackson has had a longer run in the NCFC team than 5 starts? As you are such an expert on him and his goal scoring ratio, I am sure that you will have all of the stats readily to hand?


[/quote]

I have no stats on Jackson and i think you must be getting confused with somebody else with this ramble about 5 starts because it certainly does not relate to anything whatsoever that i have posted.

All i have ever said about Jackson is that i do not consider him to be a good enough Premiership striker and that for every ten chances that come his way he could not hit a cows backside with a banjo.

That is my opinion and if you do not like it little man i really do not think i will lose any sleep tonight over it.

[/quote]

Should read hit a cows backside with a banjo nine times.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]I agree that he hasn''t had a 10 game run of starts in the two years he''s been here, the longest is a 7 game run starting vs Leicester on 28/09/10 up to Burnley on 06/11/10, that being said, he''s still had plenty of opportunity to demonstrate what he can do.Out of the 61 apps he''s made in the league, 31 of those have been starts with the other 30 from the bench (51% starts vs bench apps), and last season out of the 22 games he played, there were 12 starts in those games (55% starts vs bench apps).Are you honestly going to claim that he''s not had a good enough opportunity to prove himself based on this?The key reason that he hasn''t had longer spells on a regular basis is purely because he hasn''t performed consisently when given the games, hence why the manager has kept ''yo-yo-ing'' him in and out of the side.What really frustrates me here is that Jackson HAS been given over a dozen starts in the prem (as well as a further 10 sub apps) to prove if he''s good enough of not at this level (and isn''t IMHO), yet Chris Martin got given just 3 starts (1 sub app) and apparently this is enough for most fans to dimiss him from our plans. Why can Jackson get 4 times more opporunities at this level (and do very little with it) but have fans saying he hasn''t had a fair run, but somehow Martin has despite having only being given a quarter of the games Jackson has????

[/quote]Thank you for clearing up that Jackson had the 7 game run which you talk about above Indy.How many times did he play a full 90 mins, or anything near approaching it during that run of starts though? Chris Martin was usually brought on around the hour mark even when Jackson was getting starts.You have put together a very balanced piece here and while I disagree with your final conclusion at least it shows a level of respect to a player who has done so much for NCFC and still has a great deal to offer.I also agree with your viewpoint on Martin being harshly treated last season.While it is not a popular viewpoint, I feel that both could have a fair amount to offer the club if handled in the correct manner.Any prospective forward looking to sign for NCFC, would take one look at many of the viewpoints on here and think no thank you.All I am saying is, please let''s not go down the route of judging all of our players on two, three, five or even seven games at this level, especially strikers. It isn''t easy to score Premier League goals, hence the high prices paid for those who consistently do so.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Before you decided to block me on Twitter Smudger i had spotted the word for word quote from on here so any doubt that there was with regard to Trawlerboy being you has disappeared but then again iam just a "dim wit ex plod" i believe you said in a Tweet.

[/quote]Ahh so you''re on twitter these days then?  I didn''t think that you liked twitter STALKER.

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[quote user="Trawlerboy"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

Before you decided to block me on Twitter Smudger i had spotted the word for word quote from on here so any doubt that there was with regard to Trawlerboy being you has disappeared but then again iam just a "dim wit ex plod" i believe you said in a Tweet.

[/quote]

Ahh so you''re on twitter these days then?  I didn''t think that you liked twitter STALKER.


[/quote]

Only signed up a couple of days ago after someone pointed out to me your little "dim wit ex plod" snidey remark.Thought i deserved a right of reply but you went and denied me that opportunity.

There you go name calling again.When will you ever learn and get that chip off your shoulder.That is probably what has hindered you in life.

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[quote user="Trawlerboy"][quote user="Mike"]Jackson was your best player IMO against us.[/quote]Nice to get an objective view from a QPR fan I assume?

[/quote]

Yep I was surprised reading some of the stick some people are giving him. I don''t know how consistent he was but he looked dangerous.along with holt who I can''t stand . The way he deliberately attempts to get cb''s sent off lol however I wouldn''t mind if he was playing for us.

Seriously tho I thought Jackson played really well was making the right runs passing ect.

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