TIL 1010 5,118 Posted June 8, 2012 I see that EUFA have confirmed that there was racist abuse at a Dutch training session yesterday and Van Bommel has said they will be making an official complaint. Apparently the Dutch had to go to the far side of the training pitch to get away from the Polish idiots who were taunting the Dutch black players with monkey noises.I know this is off topic and yes should probably be in the other football section but this does not bode well for Euro 2012 especially as it has not even started. Despite what Platini said it looks as though Panorama got it right unfortunately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supermarket Prodigy 0 Posted June 8, 2012 I''m bewildered to why it''s taking place in Poland/Ukraine. Surely UEFA couldn''t have been stupid enough to be ignorant to what happens out there.It''s got the feeling of a car crash all over it at the moment, certainly doesn''t bode well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hugh J Wurzell 0 Posted June 8, 2012 There is no problem with racism in Poland or Ukraine.Monsieur "I ''ate you Eengleesh peegs" Platini says so Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chelmsford Canary 0 Posted June 8, 2012 Platini and Blatter have made another great decision!My point is that Poland and Ukraine have not started behaving in this way over night, this has been going on for years! Why has it taken this long? It''s not just these countries, but Spain and Italy too.English clubs in the 70''s and 80''s getting banned from Euro comps - surely this needs to be implemented.I seem to remember English fans behaviour in 1998 and 2000 being told anymore and we would be thrown out/banned.It''s going to be a memorable games (for bad reasons) and we have 2018 to look forward to...another country with similar views!! Get it sorted you morons! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,822 Posted June 8, 2012 Abhorant as it all is these countries hosting the tournaments isn''t the problem. Excluding them would do nothing to change deep set attitudes and prejudices. The tournament could well do more to ultimately change these attitudes than isolating the countries. People are much the same all over the world but they have different life experiences. Hopefully a multicultutral tournament will reduce the number of those people with prejudice. Hopefully kids will find new heroes from the footballers playing regardless of colour. Of course there will still be a minority of prejudiced people but we have that too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuff Said 5,761 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="Supermarket Prodigy"]I''m bewildered to why it''s taking place in Poland/Ukraine. Surely UEFA couldn''t have been stupid enough to be ignorant to what happens out there.It''s got the feeling of a car crash all over it at the moment, certainly doesn''t bode well.[/quote]I completely agree about the car crash. If I was the Polish or Ukrainian football authorities I would have planned months ago to deploy stewards and/or police ready to leap on anything like this as soon as it happened and throw out the racists. This will taint both countries for years. It''s not rocket science either to see it coming or to make some public plans to deal with it (other than burying your head in the sand and pretending it doesn''t exist). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AJ 1,330 Posted June 8, 2012 This is a disaster just waiting to happen. I actually hope teams up and leave rendering the tournament a failure. That''d show UEFA... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,272 Posted June 8, 2012 If the Dutch walk out of the Competition, as is a possibility, then the whole caboodle could collapse overnight. At the very most, I see incidents of this nature taking place during games with the result being one side refuses to continue playing. This whole tournament might turn out to be interesting after all, but for all the wrong reasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="AJ"]This is a disaster just waiting to happen. I actually hope teams up and leave rendering the tournament a failure. That''d show UEFA...[/quote]This^^^Something is going to happen, we all know it, us, the players and especially the media. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
William Darby 0 Posted June 8, 2012 Putting this into perspective I AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES FOR THE KNUCKLE DRAGGERSIMO it''s a small band of attention seeking idiots, who''ll scurry back to their sh17 holes to brag about what they''ve done. I don''t believe there are partially any more racists in their country as there are here. What the problem is really, is you have to make it unacceptable in football like we have done here in this country. And there is a simple solution to it that would stamp it out instantly. All you do is instruct the police (who at the moment just shrug as if to say, ''oh it'' just banter'') that racist chants no longer acceptable. And anybody or any group who do do it. Tell them to knock the cr@p out of them with their batons. It''s often said Eastern Europe is 20-30 years behind and we had to go through a heavy handed police approach to tackle this type of hooligan therefore Eastern Europe has to now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Officer Tillys small Willies (Nigel,lappy) 0 Posted June 8, 2012 I can see alot of this going on, The decission to hold the euros in these two countries is a joke. Theyre very backwards countries in europe for this day and age. anyway i cant wait to watch the first two games tonight... OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
William Darby 0 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="BroadstairsR"]If the Dutch walk out of the Competition, as is a possibility, then the whole caboodle could collapse overnight. At the very most, I see incidents of this nature taking place during games with the result being one side refuses to continue playing. This whole tournament might turn out to be interesting after all, but for all the wrong reasons.[/quote]The problem is the wankpickles who give it large with the racism don''t give a **** about the football. They want to brag about how they brought the tournament to its knees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 931 Posted June 8, 2012 Of course you''re right about it only being a minority The Pinkun Role Model, but from what I''ve seen (admittedly limited only to the panorama and a few newspaper reports etc.) that minority isn''t exactly tiny. I''m not sure what I think about Platini''s measure that says anyone who walks off the field of play gets a yellow card, even if they''re getting racially abused. I''d like to think that a ref wouldn''t carry out such a punishment. Obviously you can''t just allow players to walk off when they feel like it, but at the same time, they shouldn''t have to be subject to such abuse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyCanary 0 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="AJ"]This is a disaster just waiting to happen. I actually hope teams up and leave rendering the tournament a failure. That''d show UEFA...[/quote]Whilst I agree with the sentiment it''d also prove to the racism thugs that they''ve won. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko 0 Posted June 8, 2012 I just don''t understand how it can be right to reward countries who have these issues with showpiece tournaments. You can host one when you finally step into line with the rest of Europe. Once again Platini and the powers that be should hang their heads in shame and resign. But there is more chance of Andy Carroll winning the golden boot at this tournament sadly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
William Darby 0 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="Aggy"]Of course you''re right about it only being a minority The Pinkun Role Model, but from what I''ve seen (admittedly limited only to the panorama and a few newspaper reports etc.) that minority isn''t exactly tiny. I''m not sure what I think about Platini''s measure that says anyone who walks off the field of play gets a yellow card, even if they''re getting racially abused. I''d like to think that a ref wouldn''t carry out such a punishment. Obviously you can''t just allow players to walk off when they feel like it, but at the same time, they shouldn''t have to be subject to such abuse.[/quote]I agree, but when I say minority, I believe the ring leaders are a tiny number. The rest are sheep that join in on the terraces ''just because''.The Panorama programme also showed police doing absolutely diddly squit. That imo is also a big part of the problem. If the police actually battered a few ''sheep'' it''d go a long way to help stamp it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Power Hamster 0 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="Aggy"]I agree, but when I say minority, I believe the ring leaders are a tiny number. The rest are sheep that join in on the terraces ''just because''.The Panorama programme also showed police doing absolutely diddly squit. That imo is also a big part of the problem. If the police actually battered a few ''sheep'' it''d go a long way to help stamp it out.[/quote]I would like to think that it''s omly a minority, but if, as you say, the police and the authorities are doing nothing about it, that seems to indicate that it is a more deep-seated problem generally in these countries.That then begs the question, didn''t UEFA realise this problem existed before the tournament was awarded? And if not, then why not?It''s too late now - if we let the tournament be wrecked by these people, we will be handing them the "victory" they want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,431 Posted June 8, 2012 Let’s get this into full prespective! There are morons in every country who are racist, UK is as bad, but we have very strict policing of this and the majority will bring these morons into place! Why should Ukraine and Poland be punished for these few idiots? The real people of these countries have gone through some serious problems, repression and not having any freedom! They do deserve such a tournament and UEFA were right to take the tournament there. The real issue is with policing and making sure the stupid minority are dealt with at the time, booted into prison for the duration of the tournament! If you take out the leading morons the sheep soon die off and the tournament can be successful. I feel sorry for the real fans who have longed for this type of prestige event being held. So I don’t buy into this rubbish that Poland and Ukraine should not have been awarded this tournament. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crabbycanary 2 Posted June 8, 2012 Anyone else seen the English guy who is CE (?) of Shakthar Donesk? He is trying to bat off any problems of racist abuse by saying that the facist looking salutes that some of the Ukranian fans do, is part of a localised chant in favour of their team! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,822 Posted June 8, 2012 Good post Indy. The one thing I like about Blatter and it seems Platini is the recognition that football can break down barriers and prejudice. The multicultural premier league has done more to combat racism in the game than policing ever did and could. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,272 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="Indy"]Let’s get this into full prespective! There are morons in every country who are racist, UK is as bad, but we have very strict policing of this and the majority will bring these morons into place! Why should Ukraine and Poland be punished for these few idiots? The real people of these countries have gone through some serious problems, repression and not having any freedom! They do deserve such a tournament and UEFA were right to take the tournament there. The real issue is with policing and making sure the stupid minority are dealt with at the time, booted into prison for the duration of the tournament! If you take out the leading morons the sheep soon die off and the tournament can be successful. I feel sorry for the real fans who have longed for this type of prestige event being held. So I don’t buy into this rubbish that Poland and Ukraine should not have been awarded this tournament.[/quote] Good points Indy (although a bit small.) What you suggest is the underlying ethos of just why the competition has been given to these countries. And it is to be admired. The problem is that if, in the heat of the moment, just one prominent team walks off then the whole competition becomes de-valued and could fold. This now all depends upon the preventative measures put in force by the countries involved and by the relevant footballing authorities. These seem inadequate at the moment if the Dutch experience is anything to go by. The silent majority paying for the sins of the noisy few is something that us good citizens of the UK have had to tolerate for years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,822 Posted June 8, 2012 We haven''t been that hard done by historically Broady. They gave us the 1966 World Cup. We all had the pleasure of watching Eusebio take Portugal to the semi''s. Who''s to say how much that contributed to a real improvement in prejudices in this country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,431 Posted June 8, 2012 Let’s turn this on its head and take the positives from this! By having such a high profile event in Poland and Ukraine it will highlight the problem we had in the early 80’s. It will make the majority of people start to pull together and put pressure on the authorities to do something about this during this time and beyond! It might also educate some of those sheep that to follow these idiots is not the way forward in modern Europe. I will just add that because some fans use a similar salute to the Nazi’s as their club ident, it shouldn’t be confused as the same! Just look at the swastika symbol, used by such religions as Hinduism and ancient cultures as a symbol of peace! All I’m saying is that without such events racism is not going to be removed from this great game. This is about football each country uniting in playing a fun game, bringing all fans together to re-educate those few. It is a bigger man that can take racism and ignore it, play through it and not make it the focus of this great tournament. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
William Darby 0 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="nutty nigel"]Good post Indy. The one thing I like about Blatter and it seems Platini is the recognition that football can break down barriers and prejudice. The multicultural premier league has done more to combat racism in the game than policing ever did and could. [/quote]I''d like to now how you quantify that.My opinion is when the ''kick it out'' campaign/organisation started in the early 90s. People had had enough of the types of racism we''ve seen in today in Eastern Europe. That drove a change in fans'' attitudes and policing to try and end it. I think anti racism was well under way before the EPL went multicultural because for the first 2 or 3 years there wasn''t the high number of foreign players as we did from the mid 90s onwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
safri_free_kick 0 Posted June 8, 2012 At first, I wasn''t that worried about the racism in Poland and Ukraine (in that, I didn''t think it was that widespread), and that hosting a tornament with players of all races and religions would help drag the attitudes of a minoriy of supporters into the 21st century. However, after seeing the excuses of the people in charge (like that police chief who said that the fans weren''t doing Nazi salutes, but pointing at something in the distance) I now realise there is a deep problem. I mean, if the Polish and Ukrainian FA and police, as well as UEFA and FIFA, came out and said a few months/years ago ''Yes, there''s a problem with racism in football stadiums, but we''re going to work our hardest to fix it'' I feel that something was being done. But the fact they''re flat-out ignoring the problem makes me think it was a mistake holding the tournament there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
William Darby 0 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="safri_free_kick"]At first, I wasn''t that worried about the racism in Poland and Ukraine (in that, I didn''t think it was that widespread), and that hosting a tornament with players of all races and religions would help drag the attitudes of a minoriy of supporters into the 21st century. However, after seeing the excuses of the people in charge (like that police chief who said that the fans weren''t doing Nazi salutes, but pointing at something in the distance) I now realise there is a deep problem. I mean, if the Polish and Ukrainian FA and police, as well as UEFA and FIFA, came out and said a few months/years ago ''Yes, there''s a problem with racism in football stadiums, but we''re going to work our hardest to fix it'' I feel that something was being done. But the fact they''re flat-out ignoring the problem makes me think it was a mistake holding the tournament there. [/quote]It''s easier to stick your head in the sand or just deny it all. Maybe if they admitted it earlier, and declared something needed to be done. They would''ve thought ''sod that we wouldn''t get the Euros and Russia won''t get the world cup''.Thing is, if incidents continue to happen. God knows the fall out in the run up to Russia 2018. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
safri_free_kick 0 Posted June 8, 2012 I think if something big does happen (such as a team leaving the tournament in protest) that would serve as massive kick up the arse for FIFA and UEFA. So much so that they might say to Russia ''sort out your racism problem by 2016 or don''t expect to host the World Cup''. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ruddygore 0 Posted June 8, 2012 We are not just witnessing casual racism from uneducated ignorant thugs and bullies in Eastern Europe I''m afraid. To me it seems far too simplistic to expect a kick racism out programme which is backed by the local FA, Justice authorities, media, sports people and fans type of response to overcome what is in fact entwined with the rising growth of disaffected and impoverished allying their politics with facist political parties. Is a football tournament going to change that?Tin hat on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kick it off 2,034 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="The Pinkun Role Model"]Putting this into perspective I AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES FOR THE KNUCKLE DRAGGERSIMO it''s a small band of attention seeking idiots, who''ll scurry back to their sh17 holes to brag about what they''ve done. I don''t believe there are partially any more racists in their country as there are here. What the problem is really, is you have to make it unacceptable in football like we have done here in this country. And there is a simple solution to it that would stamp it out instantly. All you do is instruct the police (who at the moment just shrug as if to say, ''oh it'' just banter'') that racist chants no longer acceptable. And anybody or any group who do do it. Tell them to knock the cr@p out of them with their batons. It''s often said Eastern Europe is 20-30 years behind and we had to go through a heavy handed police approach to tackle this type of hooligan therefore Eastern Europe has to now. [/quote]Absolutely Spot on. Yes there are idiots in Poland/Ukraine, as there are anywhere else in Europe - I seem to recall several incidents of monkey noises in La Liga and Serie A games a few years ago, for those wishing to see Poland/Ukraine banned from competitive football - does that mean Spain and Italy should also be banned from competitive football? Or are you going to admit to double standards? The problem here is that the media are highlighting the issue and therefore giving these tossers exactly the attention they desire and further fuelling the issue. Yes there is a problem, and yes it needs to be dealt with, but the media coverage has been incredibly bias in trying to make the hosts out to be pariah nations. There was a Panorama programme a couple of years ago (Part 1 and Part 2) called "Hate on the doorstep" - it is a hidden camera documentary showing two asian journalists posing as a couple moving onto an estate in Bristol. They have glass bottles thrown at them, are punched in the face, the woman is almost mugged by an 11 year old with a brick (if you watch, u will see it is racially motivated mugging). 50 racist incidents in 14 days they were subjected to. Does that mean England should be banned from European competition too? or are you all so far up on your moral high horses and busy pretending there is no racism problem in this country? Everyone criticising Poland/Ukraine and saying they should be banned need to look a little closer to home because they are either ignorant or hypocrites. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,822 Posted June 8, 2012 [quote user="The Pinkun Role Model"][quote user="nutty nigel"] Good post Indy. The one thing I like about Blatter and it seems Platini is the recognition that football can break down barriers and prejudice. The multicultural premier league has done more to combat racism in the game than policing ever did and could. [/quote]I''d like to now how you quantify that.My opinion is when the ''kick it out'' campaign/organisation started in the early 90s. People had had enough of the types of racism we''ve seen in today in Eastern Europe. That drove a change in fans'' attitudes and policing to try and end it. I think anti racism was well under way before the EPL went multicultural because for the first 2 or 3 years there wasn''t the high number of foreign players as we did from the mid 90s onwards.[/quote] Kick it out started the year after the Premier League. I''m not suggesting it was a consequence of the PL but the two are linked. We now have a generation of young adults who have grown up in this enviroment. IMO our society is better for it. However we still have a minority of racist bigots in football. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites