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AndyCanary

The talk of why Holt handed in his transfer request

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Why this questioning as whether Paul Lambert was pushed out or not?It''s clear that his ambitions were not being matched by the ''prudent'' financial strictures within the club. Seeing this and not being backed for his miraculous achievements he was pushed out to seek another club to achieve what he originally planned with NCFC.I''m told all sorts of hear-say nonsense surrounding the Robert Chase/Martin O''Neill/Dean Windass debacle.... yet somehow losing our best manager in a generation has nothing to do with NCFC and is apparently down to Paul Lambert''s intransigence.Get the blindfolds off and look deeper.

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[quote user="cannycanary"]Probably been mentioned a few times but Calderwood is now number two at Carrow Road and had a big falling out with Holt at Forest, surely adding more feeling to his desire to leave. Found the story on Forest message boards and some striking similarities with the case here currently. I found the closing comments about Holts ability at the end of the post amusing!

He was disappointed not to be first choice at the

start of Colin Calderwood''s reign in 2006-2007 (though he found himself

called from the bench within 3 minutes of the start of the season when

Nathan Tyson was injured), and spent a period when his heart didn''t seem

entirely in it. This didn''t manifest itself on the field of play,

particularly - Holt only seems to know one way to play, which is

whole-heartedly - but in the fact that he asked to be informed if any

other club made enquiries. Bristol City duly did so at Christmas 2006

and it looked as though he''d be off, but at the last minute he declined

the move, citing the fact that his wife was settled in Nottingham.

None the less, by now the perception had arisen

that either the club didn''t want him or he was looking for an exit, or

possibly both; he duly submitted a transfer request in the Summer of

2007... which was promptly rejected. The reality seems to be that he had

a role to play but couldn''t expect to be automatic first choice when

everyone was fit and available. For a while Holt seemed happy with that.

The 2007-2008 Season was in marked contrast,

however. Colin Calderwood had the side playing a 4-3-3 (or 4-5-1,

depending on how optimistic you were feeling) formation, with Holt

frequently tried in a wide forward role in which he was, frankly, pants.

His star waned and he became mardy (take your pick about the order in

which this happened). The crisis point arrived in March 2008, when Holt

and Junior Agogo were hauled off at half time after an abject 45 minutes

at Roots Hall - the fact that they were (successfully) replaced by the

teenage Matt Thornhill and a 60% fit Nathan Tyson tells you how poorly

they''d been playing. Rumours abounded of Holt trying to hit the manager

on the training field, though these have never been substantiated - and

Holt was out on loan at Blackpool within days.

In the summer of 2008 he signed for League 2''s

Shrewsbury Town, thus returning to his true level; even a fit and

interested Grant Holt (something Forest fans hadn''t seen for the best

part of a season before his departure) was never going to be good enough

for the Championship.

[/quote]Brilliant! [:D]

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[quote user="Cluck Nose."]Why this questioning as whether Paul Lambert was pushed out or not?It''s clear that his ambitions were not being matched by the ''prudent'' financial strictures within the club. Seeing this and not being backed for his miraculous achievements he was pushed out to seek another club to achieve what he originally planned with NCFC.I''m told all sorts of hear-say nonsense surrounding the Robert Chase/Martin O''Neill/Dean Windass debacle.... yet somehow losing our best manager in a generation has nothing to do with NCFC and is apparently down to Paul Lambert''s intransigence.Get the blindfolds off and look deeper. [/quote]

Complete  bollocks. 

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Complete  bollocks. 

Another sad old regular hiding behind a new user name.I wonder who it could be this time? A clear ''new'' obsession with Cluck may point in a certain direction.

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[quote user="Cluck Nose."]Why this questioning as whether Paul Lambert was pushed out or not?It''s clear that his ambitions were not being matched by the ''prudent'' financial strictures within the club. Seeing this and not being backed for his miraculous achievements he was pushed out to seek another club to achieve what he originally planned with NCFC.I''m told all sorts of hear-say nonsense surrounding the Robert Chase/Martin O''Neill/Dean Windass debacle.... yet somehow losing our best manager in a generation has nothing to do with NCFC and is apparently down to Paul Lambert''s intransigence.Get the blindfolds off and look deeper. [/quote]

You are 100% correct Cluck. Spending money you havent got is always a very wise idea. It has worked out really well for Portsmouth and Leeds. On a global scale it has also worked very well for the world economy.

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[quote user="Cluck Nose."]

Complete  bollocks. 

Another sad old regular hiding behind a new user name.I wonder who it could be this time? A clear ''new'' obsession with Cluck may point in a certain direction.

[/quote]

Bollocks is bollocks my friend whether its you or anyone else.  I may be sad but I''m not that old and certainly not a ''regular''.  As for obsession, you appear to have an obsessive chip on your shoulder about our club.    

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As much as you may like me to be.... I shall never be your friend.NEXT!

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[quote user="Jacko"]

You are 100% correct Cluck. Spending money you havent got is always a very wise idea. It has worked out really well for Portsmouth and Leeds. On a global scale it has also worked very well for the world economy.

[/quote]

 

Absolute quality.....

 

Yet again the Cluckster  plays the "I''ve got a shedload of inside info that you plebs do not know" card.

 

Well, it''s as much cobblers now as it''s been before. I do not know why he keeps resorting to it, because in his heart of hearts he must know that no-one believes a word of it.

 

He must be the only person who seriously believes that Lambert was pushed out . What has in fact happened is that he has been led to believe that he''ll get more cash to do what he wants at Villa park. It may be true. It may be false. Time will tell. But suggesting that he was made to leave because Mc N and company did not promise him funds that did not exist is a conspiracy theory right up with the one that Elvis is still alive and performing in a  Las Vegas style nightclub somewhere on the surface of the moon.......

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[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]If Holts grievance was about non-monetary issues why would he be wanting to join up again with a manager who at least failed to address those issues for him and at worst could have been the cause? The only explanation I can conceive is that Lambert and Holt had the same issues with another party which points to their line manager, the CEO. But this doesn''t resonate with Lambert''s remote stance with players and he didn''t seem to show Holt any favouritism. It''s about time the air was cleared on this.[/quote]

 

Good point RH.

 

If it''s not a monetary issue, then it''s something else. If it''s something else, then it''s either something he alone had with the club or something that both he and PL had with the club.

 

If the issue is with the club, then, I for one, am on the side of the club. No one person, no matter who, is bigger than the club. If the issue within the club is with the CEO, then, given that he is the CEO, he is responsible for ensuring that the best interests of the club are upheld. I think we have all witnessed how professionally he conducts himself on behalf of the club, and if, for the overall benefit of the club, he has to ruffle the feathers of one or two people, then I''m 100% behind him.

 

One must also remember, that GH (and PL) were hardly in the national headlines for their proficiency prior to their arrival at Carrow Road. Because these 2 have "hit the headlines", then everyone assumes that they are the voices of the club. Wonder how that makes other senior pro''s feel? Just one example - do you recall when Wes H was out of favour and almost "put out to pasture". What was his response, throw his toys out of his pram or work his socks off for the club?

 

At the end of the day, it is the club we all support. We may have our heroes within the club, but, those heroes should never be bigger than the club. I suspect that the CEO has ensured that certain people are aware of this, and, it appears that those certain people don''t like it. Hence the position we have found ourselves in.

 

I''m glad that we have the CEO that we do - under his stewardship I cannot see us ever returning to the financial depths of 3 years ago. Furthermore, I cannot ever seeing him appoint a manager that does not play the traditional Norwich way. I think he knows what we all want, what''s best for the club, and how to go about getting it - long may it continue!

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Another quality response ABC, you make good points. The one area which I believe makes the most impact in this argument is the question of if we lose GH and get relegated, what would the potential loss of revenue be, and what percentage of that could be attributed to his loss. That is the key question. Happier getting relegated, or staying up? There''s a lot of hypothetical in there, I admit, but he is a bloody important part of this club.

Having said that, this CEO cannot be lauded enough, IMO. He is an exceptionally clever operator, we need to keep him, and to date, he hasn''t put a foot wrong. He knows what''s what in this situation, and whatever the outcome I feel that the underlying sentiment would be to support his decision.

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[quote user="Jacko"].......... is a conspiracy theory right up with the one that Elvis is still alive and performing in a  Las Vegas style nightclub somewhere on the surface of the moon.......

[/quote]

What? You mean he isn''t !?!?!

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I reckon Holt will be here next season. He and the club will use the arrival of Hughton to renegotiate without either side losing face. A few more quid for holt and a longer deal dependent on number of starts for instance.

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I see the Deliarites have once again pulled their pants over their heads and put their faith in yet another club ''untouchable''.....The churlish, ungrateful and unnecessary loss of Lambert and Holt will be shown as a seminal moment regarding the progress of NCFC. The recent success built on the backs of two individuals shows a chronic lack of solidity within the club structure and means little has actually changed at CR. We still have hapless owners flapping about the boardroom and a CEO who''s lips move but simply repeat the same old mantra of prudence before progress.PL and GH created what we have achieved over the recent past..... not a sharp suit sitting behind a desk.

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[quote user="Cluck Nose."]I see the Deliarites have once again pulled their pants over their heads and put their faith in yet another club ''untouchable''.....The churlish, ungrateful and unnecessary loss of Lambert and Holt will be shown as a seminal moment regarding the progress of NCFC. The recent success built on the backs of two individuals shows a chronic lack of solidity within the club structure and means little has actually changed at CR. We still have hapless owners flapping about the boardroom and a CEO who''s lips move but simply repeat the same old mantra of prudence before progress.PL and GH created what we have achieved over the recent past..... not a sharp suit sitting behind a desk.

[/quote]

 

Please explain how we have lost Holt when he is still at the club under a two year contract and a new manager is about to sit down to discuss his future?

 

How was the loss of Lambert "unneccessary and ungrateful?" He had made his mind up he was going just like he had with Colchester when Norwich came calling. That was the end of that. If he makes a success of his job and one of the big teams come calling he will do exactly the same thing.    

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[quote user="Cluck Nose."]I see the Deliarites have once again pulled their pants over their heads and put their faith in yet another club ''untouchable''.....

The churlish, ungrateful and unnecessary loss of Lambert and Holt will be shown as a seminal moment regarding the progress of NCFC. The recent success built on the backs of two individuals shows a chronic lack of solidity within the club structure and means little has actually changed at CR. We still have hapless owners flapping about the boardroom and a CEO who''s lips move but simply repeat the same old mantra of prudence before progress.

PL and GH created what we have achieved over the recent past..... not a sharp suit sitting behind a desk.


[/quote]

This just reminds me that we have the same old posters flapping about the messageboard who simply repeat the same old mantra.

NEXT.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Cluck Nose."]I see the Deliarites have once again pulled their pants over their heads and put their faith in yet another club ''untouchable''.....

The churlish, ungrateful and unnecessary loss of Lambert and Holt will be shown as a seminal moment regarding the progress of NCFC. The recent success built on the backs of two individuals shows a chronic lack of solidity within the club structure and means little has actually changed at CR. We still have hapless owners flapping about the boardroom and a CEO who''s lips move but simply repeat the same old mantra of prudence before progress.

PL and GH created what we have achieved over the recent past..... not a sharp suit sitting behind a desk.


[/quote]

This just reminds me that we have the same old posters flapping about the messageboard who simply repeat the same old mantra.

NEXT.

[/quote]

Like you, you mean.

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[quote user="ricky knight"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Cluck Nose."]I see the Deliarites have once again pulled their pants over their heads and put their faith in yet another club ''untouchable''.....The churlish, ungrateful and unnecessary loss of Lambert and Holt will be shown as a seminal moment regarding the progress of NCFC. The recent success built on the backs of two individuals shows a chronic lack of solidity within the club structure and means little has actually changed at CR. We still have hapless owners flapping about the boardroom and a CEO who''s lips move but simply repeat the same old mantra of prudence before progress.PL and GH created what we have achieved over the recent past..... not a sharp suit sitting behind a desk.

[/quote]

This just reminds me that we have the same old posters flapping about the messageboard who simply repeat the same old mantra.

NEXT.

[/quote]

Like you, you mean.[/quote][IMG]http://nbnl.globalwhelming.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/0910_gallery_playground.jpg[/IMG]

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This is a strange thread indeed, on the one hand Cluck has some points but on the other he doesn’t really give the current board any credit!

 

I have supported as many through a number of Norwich boards made up of business people who support Norwich and done the best they can and what they thought at the time.

 

Every board has come out with statements they later regret and makes them look like liars of daft.

 

The bottom line is that we had some of our best times under Chase, some of the worst times under Delia, but out of all this we can look back and debate all the History of this great club!

 

The future will very soon change, Delia is no spring chicken and we are also now a very good prospect for future investment. The time will come as it did with Lambert the change will happen.

 

I can’t be arsed with going through every issue and why even bother? Football is a funny old game, I’m sure Delia will not be left out of pocket when she finally goes, the club should be debt free and hopefully still in the premiership.

 

Delia brought in MacNally, he has sorted the club out, Doncaster in my opinion was the worst CEO of any football club I can remember and his record here was appalling on the football front! Delia should have got rid many years before she did, we might well not have ended up so far in the ****.

 

So forget the bad choices, we now have a way forward which looks bright, Lambert was on his way out as his challenge had been completed, onto bigger things, Holt wants to go as his agent and the club are not on the same page as far as his contract goes and that’s fine, thank you and goodbye!

 

Roll on Hughton and the evolution of Norwich City.

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[quote user="Indy"]

 

Delia brought in MacNally, he has sorted the club out, Doncaster in my opinion was the worst CEO of any football club I can remember and his record here was appalling on the football front! Delia should have got rid many years before she did, we might well not have ended up so far in the ****.

 

[/quote]

 

A matter of opinion, of course, but do you really think getting to a play-off final and winning the championship by eight clear points two years later is that bad a footballing record for a CEO?

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]

 

Delia brought in MacNally, he has sorted the club out, Doncaster in my opinion was the worst CEO of any football club I can remember and his record here was appalling on the football front! Delia should have got rid many years before she did, we might well not have ended up so far in the ****.

 

[/quote]

 

A matter of opinion, of course, but do you really think getting to a play-off final and winning the championship by eight clear points two years later is that bad a footballing record for a CEO?

[/quote]

 

Of course it isn''t PC, bang on!! It''s fine to be critical but in the interest of fairness, credit should be given where it is due.

 

 

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Relegation to the third division, near bankcrupcy and his management of the Hotel design and build are just a few things which offset anything positive this guy did.

 

We can go into more if you like but my opinon of him is very poor!

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[quote user="Victor Segura and the Yellow Cards"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]

 

Delia brought in MacNally, he has sorted the club out, Doncaster in my opinion was the worst CEO of any football club I can remember and his record here was appalling on the football front! Delia should have got rid many years before she did, we might well not have ended up so far in the ****.

 

[/quote]

 

A matter of opinion, of course, but do you really think getting to a play-off final and winning the championship by eight clear points two years later is that bad a footballing record for a CEO?

[/quote]

 

Of course it isn''t PC, bang on!! It''s fine to be critical but in the interest of fairness, credit should be given where it is due.

 

 

[/quote]

 

And, to be fair, one must mention the relegation to the third tier. Anyone can get relegated from the Premier League; there is no shame in that. And even falling to the tird tier is hardly something only we have managed. The list of clubs from the top flight that have ended up in the third tier over the last three decades or so is a very long one, with some stellar names.

I wouldn''t disagree for a moment that Doncaster needed to be replaced. He did. There is a shelf-life in jobs like that. But his record overall is nothing like as bad as some posters would claim.

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What about the Ashton saga? the LS land which could have been sold for a profit but Doncaster held out for more money only for the buyer to pull out to mention a number of other minor issues with his time here.

 

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[quote user="Indy"]

Relegation to the third division, near bankcrupcy and his management of the Hotel design and build are just a few things which offset anything positive this guy did.

 

We can go into more if you like but my opinon of him is very poor!

[/quote]

 

Indy, I think it''s stretching a point to claim that the design of that bloody hotel counts in Doncaster''s footballing record as CEO![:P]

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Not Really Purple, given he has a certain amount of say in what went into the design! He and the board could have had the 1500 seats in front of the hotel which the club are now looking to retrospectively fit!

 

So no I don''t think it''s wrong to tar him with that brush too!

 

 

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As usual, Cluck talks in banal generalities, throwing in a good deal of bluster for good measure.

 

It''s interesting that he trots out the same old mantra week after week, but, when anyone ever challenges him to  provide evidence or cite specifics, he either goes silent or resorts to the usual threats/insults. A good example is his bizarre claim that Lambert was "pushed out". At least four other posters have now asked him to explain what he means by this, and to be more specific. But have we had any sensible, reasoned reply ? Of course not. Just a repetition of the claim itself. The same is largely the case with the claimed "exit " of Grant Holt....conveniently forgetting, of course, that Holt is still (to my knowledge) a Norwich City player.

 

Another cliché that he favours is his apparent distaste for "suits". Again ,he has been challenged for further clarification of who''s involved, and the alleged "crimes" they''ve committed. Apart from a few easy target names (Delia, Doncaster etc)  we''re still none the wiser; all that happens is he reverts to type, and suggests that pretty much everything good that''s happened over the past 3 years is thanks solely to Lambert and Holt.

 

I suppose the most extraordinary thing is that we continue to take this clown seriously......

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[quote user="Indy"]

Not Really Purple, given he has a certain amount of say in what went into the design! He and the board could have had the 1500 seats in front of the hotel which the club are now looking to retrospectively fit!

 

So no I don''t think it''s wrong to tar him with that brush too!

 

 

[/quote]

 

Wow, you really don''t like him!! Did he have a crack at your missus or something?!?!

 

 

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Not that I don''t like the guy, having met him a few times, not one I would like as a friend, but in my opinion I would not employ him on his NCFC record unlike Purple, I don''t see too many positives from our freind Neil!

 

Just my opinion, each to their own.

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