Wes Hoolahan - Your Verdict??

[jackryan007 0]

In my opinion, Wes has to play a high percentage of games this coming season, he is our most gifted player and a real match winner.

The problem is, how do we fit him into the team, can he play in central mid-field in a 4-4-2? For me no, I feel his best position is playing just off a lone striker or behind a front two, playing in wide positions is a none starter.

I pray we continue our policy of going to win games both home and away including the so called ''big'' 4 or is it 6 now. I believe if we play the likes of Hoolahan, E Bennett, Pilkington, Howson we are going to suprize a few more teams this season, if we get a few thumpings along the way then so be it!

Be interested in other peoples thoughts?

[Mahogany 0]

The way is to not play a 4-4-2. With the squad we have a 4-5-1/4-3-3 is a much better option. We have plenty of midfielders who score goals so don''t need to be playing 2 strikers. Pilkington, Surman, Wes, Bennett and Howson are all capable of scoring a decent number next season.

[jackryan007 0]

Would you not favour a 4-2-3-1 with Wes in the middle of the 3 attacking mid-fielders?

[lake district canary 0]

Wes is a conundrum.    If you play him as you suggest, playing just off the lone striker you are restricting your goals imo.   He doesn''t score enough to be in that position, and he sometimes just doesn''t produce penetrating passes.    Very skilfull, yes, but still a bit of a problem to fit in. 

 

 

The best way I can imagine  him in the team is in a 451 where the midfield can be fluid and support the front man wherever necessary.   Could be that he will be more of a substitute figure again this season - perhaps to feature more in away games than at home.    

 

 

 

[Mahogany 0]

Yeah, I think 4-3-3, 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1 , 4-4-1-1 can all basically be the same thing just depends on how you label them.

I''m hoping Pilkington and Bennett become the real focal point of our team next season. By dropping down to one forward Pilks could be given a bit more freedom to attack, I reckon he could get 10-15 goals next year if played correctly

[smooth 114]

As mentioned before I think the 4-4-2 is the best formation.We need two strikers who can constantly be testing, stretching, muscling a premiership defence.With a striker partnership you can create goals for both and hence if one is a little out of form at least the other is still able to set them up etc.I don''t think the midfield is as potent in front of goal as you suggest Mahogany.We need two strikers, two wide players Pilky for his creativitiy and dead ball ability and a pacey winger than EB to put balls in. If we play Morison and Holt then we need to play to our strength which is get the ball out wide QUICKLY and gets balls in to two forwards who many premiership defences will fear and did this year.Playing through the middle with Hooly didn''t work as much last year we scored a great deal of headed goals.I think Hooly is a player to be on the bench. Howson to start Pilky out wide, a new central midfielder and maybe that new winger or EB.Hooly can change the game but as I have said many times you have to accomodate him, he doesn''t have a position that he excels in, in this division. For me the home game against West Brom he showed where he was best and with his mindset able to play the best % balls for our attack, his running off the ball, his running with the ball was direct and threatening. He played defensively well in that game as he had 15 minutes to shine, it was in a very narrow left midfield position.For me strikers are more important and we need 2 on the field at any one time, for attacking purposes but also for defending purposes as our midfield has no height  for help when defending corners.So Hooly on a strong bench, with Surman, Vaughan, Fox, Rudd, Ayala, EB. As I hope we can bring in some starters ASAP.

[Kolin Kob 0]

i think one of our strengths last season was that we were constantly changing the way we played and were always unpredictable. that way the opposition never got used to us as a team and we threw a lot of surprises. wes allowed us to do that to a certain extent because a team with wes is so different to a team without him. that said, he doesn''t fit well into every formation. i hope chris hughton picks the team, not the player - and leaves out talented players like wes from time to time in order to keep things fresh.my one concern about hughton is that he tends to be very loyal to particular players (i have heard!). this is completely alien to the lambert way of doing things, and i feel that we should continue the great lambert tradition of constantly mixing things up with line-up changes and cunning substitutions.

[Mahogany 0]

I don''t think there is much chance Hughton will chop and change the way Lambert did. He''s already a successful manager and we should let him manage the way he is used to rather than trying to remould him into Lambert mk 2.

The way Lambert managed we absolutely brilliant but there are clear advantages to having a more stable line-up, hopefully a few more clean sheets for one thing.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Kolin Kob"]i think one of our strengths last season was that we were constantly changing the way we played and were always unpredictable. that way the opposition never got used to us as a team and we threw a lot of surprises. wes allowed us to do that to a certain extent because a team with wes is so different to a team without him. that said, he doesn''t fit well into every formation. i hope chris hughton picks the team, not the player - and leaves out talented players like wes from time to time in order to keep things fresh.

my one concern about hughton is that he tends to be very loyal to particular players (i have heard!). this is completely alien to the lambert way of doing things, and i feel that we should continue the great lambert tradition of constantly mixing things up with line-up changes and cunning substitutions.
[/quote]

 

 

Couldn''t disagree more.   Having the confidence in your players to play in a more settled line up will improve on what PL achieved.  He bought good players then did''t have the confidence to play them as they needed to develop a settled style of playing.  While ultimately being successful, PL did on quite afew occasions play strange line ups and formations which appeared to confuse our own team, let alone the opposition.     I''m not knocking him, he did a great job, but I do think that Hughton will show more confidence in the players and they will respond to a more settled way of playing. 

 

 

[Kolin Kob 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="Kolin Kob"]i think one of our strengths last season was that we were constantly changing the way we played and were always unpredictable. that way the opposition never got used to us as a team and we threw a lot of surprises. wes allowed us to do that to a certain extent because a team with wes is so different to a team without him. that said, he doesn''t fit well into every formation. i hope chris hughton picks the team, not the player - and leaves out talented players like wes from time to time in order to keep things fresh.my one concern about hughton is that he tends to be very loyal to particular players (i have heard!). this is completely alien to the lambert way of doing things, and i feel that we should continue the great lambert tradition of constantly mixing things up with line-up changes and cunning substitutions.[/quote]

 Couldn''t disagree more.   Having the confidence in your players to play in a more settled line up will improve on what PL achieved.  He bought good players then did''t have the confidence to play them as they needed to develop a settled style of playing.  While ultimately being successful, PL did on quite afew occasions play strange line ups and formations which appeared to confuse our own team, let alone the opposition.     I''m not knocking him, he did a great job, but I do think that Hughton will show more confidence in the players and they will respond to a more settled way of playing. 

 

[/quote]I think we''ll have to beg to differ on this one! I really think that Paul Lambert''s formation and personnel changes were a huge part of our success last season, and also the reason why we were so exciting to watch.The players all knew they were in with a shout, and nobody ever had their name written into the team sheet which meant everyone played each game like it was their lastThe opposition never knew what sort of game we played and we didn''t become predictable, as teams like Blackpool and Hull did due to relying too much on one or two players playing particular roleswho could be taken out of the gameThere was never any sign that players were unsettled by the changes - I think the opposite; every player knew they were a valued member of a cohesive squad, and morale was kept high as there were no sulkers. If a player was dropped, they knew that it wasn''t the end of their career at the club - someone else was just getting a chance.The one exception to the rule where the players seemed a bit baffled was the 5-4-1 formation with Morison up front. However, this was only really tried at the end of the season when we were pretty much safe, and this was a work in progress and I was glad Lambert did it as it gives us more options. As it combined with Morison''s shaky patch it did not work as well as it perhaps could do in the future.

[Downloads 35]

I think a lot of people still have this image of Wes where he sits ont he hole and doesn''t do a lot and therefore is a luxury.

 

This is incorrect.

 

Anyone see how many miles he ran last season??

 

He can easily play in a flatter diamond formation. I think Howson is best just further back controlling the game and Wes just slightly further forward. He might not be the most awsome tackler in the world, but he gets about all over the pitch.

[87canary 0]

I think we looked at our best last season when we started Hoolahan and Howson.

[smooth 114]

Downloads, totally disagree with your assessment of Howson, Lambert said in January we needed more goals from midfield and he brought in Howson who has mentioned his best position is moving behind the front two. Howson is our creative man in the middle who needs to be going forward.Defensive midfielder with an engine, strong positional sense to play alongside him.I do not want to see Howson sitting back we will be leaving his best attributes on the sideline, he was bought in as that attacking midfielder from Leeds where he had totally impressed in that division at such a young age. He can sit back and do that role, because he is that good... but do not let his other attributes be wasted, he will score goals next season and as many have said could well be POTS. He has so much potential and looks premiership born and raised we are lucky to have his talent on the field now use it fully

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Kolin Kob"][quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="Kolin Kob"]i think one of our strengths last season was that we were constantly changing the way we played and were always unpredictable. that way the opposition never got used to us as a team and we threw a lot of surprises. wes allowed us to do that to a certain extent because a team with wes is so different to a team without him. that said, he doesn''t fit well into every formation. i hope chris hughton picks the team, not the player - and leaves out talented players like wes from time to time in order to keep things fresh.   my one concern about hughton is that he tends to be very loyal to particular players (i have heard!). this is completely alien to the lambert way of doing things, and i feel that we should continue the great lambert tradition of constantly mixing things up with line-up changes and cunning substitutions.
[/quote]

 Couldn''t disagree more.   Having the confidence in your players to play in a more settled line up will improve on what PL achieved.  He bought good players then did''t have the confidence to play them as they needed to develop a settled style of playing.  While ultimately being successful, PL did on quite afew occasions play strange line ups and formations which appeared to confuse our own team, let alone the opposition.     I''m not knocking him, he did a great job, but I do think that Hughton will show more confidence in the players and they will respond to a more settled way of playing. 

[/quote]

I think we''ll have to beg to differ on this one! I really think that Paul Lambert''s formation and personnel changes were a huge part of our success last season, and also the reason why we were so exciting to watch.  The players all knew they were in with a shout, and nobody ever had their name written into the team sheet which meant everyone played each game like it was their last The opposition never knew what sort of game we played and we didn''t become predictable, as teams like Blackpool and Hull did due to relying too much on one or two players playing particular roleswho could be taken out of the game There was never any sign that players were unsettled by the changes - I think the opposite; every player knew they were a valued member of a cohesive squad, and morale was kept high as there were no sulkers. If a player was dropped, they knew that it wasn''t the end of their career at the club - someone else was just getting a chance.   The one exception to the rule where the players seemed a bit baffled was the 5-4-1 formation with Morison up front. However, this was only really tried at the end of the season when we were pretty much safe, and this was a work in progress and I was glad Lambert did it as it gives us more options. As it combined with Morison''s shaky patch it did not work as well as it perhaps could do in the future.
[/quote]

 

 

 

While I appreciate your points,  I still feel that our best matches last season were more due to the attitude than formation.   When the attitude was right the games were right.  The majority of games we had the lesser of possession and/or had to come back from a goal behind.   This is not a good long term strategy and it was only the never say die attitude of the players that got us the points.     So I think that with PL the attitude was the most important factor - and you couldn''t fault him on that (except maybe Sunderland away).   When he got the tactics right as well (Swansea/tott away, Newc home) it was great to watch.    I think with Hughton it will be different and he will play a more settled line up and instill confidence through consistency of formations and line ups.    The attitude will still be good but we need to move on from last season and the constant trying to confuse the opposition.  After all the other teams know who we are now.  

 

 

 

  

[Downloads 35]

[quote user="smooth"]Downloads, totally disagree with your assessment of Howson, Lambert said in January we needed more goals from midfield and he brought in Howson who has mentioned his best position is moving behind the front two. Howson is our creative man in the middle who needs to be going forward.

Defensive midfielder with an engine, strong positional sense to play alongside him.

I do not want to see Howson sitting back we will be leaving his best attributes on the sideline, he was bought in as that attacking midfielder from Leeds where he had totally impressed in that division at such a young age. He can sit back and do that role, because he is that good... but do not let his other attributes be wasted, he will score goals next season and as many have said could well be POTS. He has so much potential and looks premiership born and raised we are lucky to have his talent on the field now use it fully
[/quote]

 

I don''t think we have to be so obvious. Howson and Hoolahan both cover a lot of miles in a game of footy, they shouldn''t be restricted. Wes did an awful lot of defending last year. I really don''t want to see a defensive midfielder type coming in. I would rather we had more people who were gifted with the ball at their feet. A mini Spain as it were.

[Harry 0]

Wes is a great player who has changed the way he plays in his time at Carrow Road, when he first came here he never used to track/tackle back but this has changed over the last few seasons, it''s still not the best part of his game but is a big improvement on how it used to be, his strength is going forward, his twisting runs and his eye for a pass but this all depends on the role he is given, if he has a free role he excels, if he is given a set role he tends.to struggle which IMO is why he hasn''t been picked by Ireland as they haven''t got the other players in their squad to accommodate him.

Next season I can see Wes playing more as an impact sub as I imagine Hughton will play a more rigid 4 4 2

[Kolin Kob 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Kolin Kob"][quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="Kolin Kob"]i think one of our strengths last season was that we were constantly changing the way we played and were always unpredictable. that way the opposition never got used to us as a team and we threw a lot of surprises. wes allowed us to do that to a certain extent because a team with wes is so different to a team without him. that said, he doesn''t fit well into every formation. i hope chris hughton picks the team, not the player - and leaves out talented players like wes from time to time in order to keep things fresh.   my one concern about hughton is that he tends to be very loyal to particular players (i have heard!). this is completely alien to the lambert way of doing things, and i feel that we should continue the great lambert tradition of constantly mixing things up with line-up changes and cunning substitutions.[/quote]

 Couldn''t disagree more.   Having the confidence in your players to play in a more settled line up will improve on what PL achieved.  He bought good players then did''t have the confidence to play them as they needed to develop a settled style of playing.  While ultimately being successful, PL did on quite afew occasions play strange line ups and formations which appeared to confuse our own team, let alone the opposition.     I''m not knocking him, he did a great job, but I do think that Hughton will show more confidence in the players and they will respond to a more settled way of playing. 

[/quote]I think we''ll have to beg to differ on this one! I really think that Paul Lambert''s formation and personnel changes were a huge part of our success last season, and also the reason why we were so exciting to watch.  The players all knew they were in with a shout, and nobody ever had their name written into the team sheet which meant everyone played each game like it was their last The opposition never knew what sort of game we played and we didn''t become predictable, as teams like Blackpool and Hull did due to relying too much on one or two players playing particular roleswho could be taken out of the game There was never any sign that players were unsettled by the changes - I think the opposite; every player knew they were a valued member of a cohesive squad, and morale was kept high as there were no sulkers. If a player was dropped, they knew that it wasn''t the end of their career at the club - someone else was just getting a chance.   The one exception to the rule where the players seemed a bit baffled was the 5-4-1 formation with Morison up front. However, this was only really tried at the end of the season when we were pretty much safe, and this was a work in progress and I was glad Lambert did it as it gives us more options. As it combined with Morison''s shaky patch it did not work as well as it perhaps could do in the future.[/quote]

While I appreciate your points,  I still feel that our best matches last season were more due to the attitude than formation.   When the attitude was right the games were right.  The majority of games we had the lesser of possession and/or had to come back from a goal behind.   This is not a good long term strategy and it was only the never say die attitude of the players that got us the points.     So I think that with PL the attitude was the most important factor - and you couldn''t fault him on that (except maybe Sunderland away).   When he got the tactics right as well (Swansea/tott away, Newc home) it was great to watch.    I think with Hughton it will be different and he will play a more settled line up and instill confidence through consistency of formations and line ups.    The attitude will still be good but we need to move on from last season and the constant trying to confuse the opposition.  After all the other teams know who we are now.  

 [/quote]

See what you are saying - attitude was of course key. However, that is part of my point too!

It was the positive team-based attitude of everyone in the squad that meant that we were able to change games. There were no players on the subs bench who you were concerned might be playing low on confidence (aside from Morison 2nd half of the season). You could be sure that everyone would come on with a point to prove, and the fact that every player got a game at some point meant that the team spirit (and match sharpness) was kept at a high level. I feel that if we were to start playing a fixed starting XI, we would lose some squad cohesiveness which would then mean we could be picked apart easier when, inevitably, some first choice players get injured. We never had to worrry about that too much under Lambert.

While you say this is not a good long-term strategy, this is exactly the philosophy Alex Ferguson uses to choose his team and to keep his squad happy. I''m not saying we''re like Manchester United, but I think our footballing ideal has been the same.

I don''t think other teams know who we are. We (fans) have watched all the games, and none of us really have much of an idea of the way in which the team is going to play each match (other than that they will play whole-heartedly), so the opposition probably have less of a clue than we do. Lambert kept the opposition guessing. I hope Hughton keeps them guessing even more.

[Wes Hoolahan da giant 0]

<3 da guy as u can prob tell hehe

[G 0]

Thought he looked decent with even in a 442 last season, he''s worked a hell of a lot on his defensive game. I''m not saying that Hoolahan isn''t a quality player but I hope we sign someone that is more creative than him.

[smooth 114]

I hope we see the strength of our position now and bring in players to bring our first 11 up to some very high standards. The very first thing Hughton will see is that we concede and we score from headers. Hence defensively we need personnel and alot of work on it, attack wise we have some tricky players who had a good season Hoolahoops, Surman and Pilky scoring a good amount with Holt and Morison leading that charge.We will need thatscroing threat from the bench and hence players from our first team this year will be on the bench. We need to bring in players who can lead us defensively and see games out.I think I have been harsh on Wes, I do think he is a luxury and I felt that his run at the end of the season helped his season stats as there were few assists of any quality, people say he picks out a pass but not in the same league as premiership players or those brought up through the premiership ranks (Lansbury for example). But he is a valuable player to NCFC, he has improved his game... but he is not a player who I feel would be a starting central midfielder in this divison this season game in, game out.I feel he is a great player to be on the bench, he can change games, if we need a particular system he can come in and be a new threat. But we need to improve each year and I certainly can see that our bench can become very strong this season as we add quality to our first 11 and have players on the bench who scored goals last season in Hoolahoops and Surman. The striker of the bench position concerns me.We need to bring in a striker not to be the number 2 alongside Holty (if he stays) but to be number 1 and have Holty alongside and then Morison and Vaughan pushing old man Holty this season. Our bench should have real potential and many of the players that were on the bench this season will see themselves playing competitively in other games, cup and reserve games. This will bring our squad up to a good level. We will be hit by suspensions and injuries we need this squad ready to be called upon as they were last season. They all proved they could follow instructions and impliment plans. But this season they have to do it once more to keep us up and so that their careers continue to grow. Because the end of 2012-13 if we stay up some of these guys will have other teams wanting them fo first team football and they will become the new leaders, big money earners at other clubs.Hoolahoop for me has to be that dynamo off the bench unless we play a 4-3-3 style team and add some exceptional players to our team so we can have Hoolahoop wide left of the three front men.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="G"]Thought he looked decent with even in a 442 last season, he''s worked a hell of a lot on his defensive game. I''m not saying that Hoolahan isn''t a quality player but I hope we sign someone that is more creative than him.[/quote]

How is Hoolahan not creative enough already? I can understand saying we need to sign someone with a better all-round game than Hoolahan (someone who sacrifices a bit of technique and creativity for more defensive ability) but trying to find someone more creative is an almost impossible task on our budget.

[G 0]

[quote user="Gareth"][quote user="G"]Thought he looked decent with even in a 442 last season, he''s worked a hell of a lot on his defensive game. I''m not saying that Hoolahan isn''t a quality player but I hope we sign someone that is more creative than him.[/quote]

How is Hoolahan not creative enough already? I can understand saying we need to sign someone with a better all-round game than Hoolahan (someone who sacrifices a bit of technique and creativity for more defensive ability) but trying to find someone more creative is an almost impossible task on our budget.

[/quote]

Sorry didn''t really think enough before I posted that. Just think we need that player that really runs at someone and isn''t afraid to take them on and have a shot, whip in a cross or play that killer ball. Hucks basically. Hoolahan is our most creative player, just hope we sign another player similar to him. Despite being up there with the most headers in the league I wasn''t impressed with out crosses. Maybe its the way we played but sometimes we seemed unwilling to play that ball through so just went side to side. I''m struggling to explain what i''m feeling i''m afriad.

[Mahogany 0]

if we play a 4-3-3 there is no way that Hoolahan should be on the left. Pilkington is made for that position. Two footed so he can either cut in and take on the defence or take it deep down the line to cross it, a great shot on him and decent pace. A modern 4-3-3 is usually a 4-2-3-1. If we play that the obvious role for Wes is the middle in the "3"

[smooth 114]

I think the training and schooling at the top teams in Europe show the excellent ability. Lansbury can pick out the pass or shift his feet and body to make space for a pass that many other cannot.Chris Brunt is a player that I would say mixes great creativity with a great all round midfield display. Hoolahoops we all know is very creative with his gem of a left foot, but his right is very weak, often you see him  pivot and spin to get the ball to his favoured feet. The premiership teams are aware of Hoolahoops now. He will still have an impact, I do know what the post above means as there are players in europe with pace, a little flair and ability to grace the english game. But Hoolahoops will be a creative spark from the bench and if we bring in another creative gem then so be it.We all know the immediate defensive needs, central midfielder, centre half and right back. Then for Jan evaluate.But we need a winger and we need that new striker. Hoolahoops will get time on the pitch but I expect us to not to depend on him, EB will improve, Pilky will again prove what a find he has been, Howson will show his class and Vaughan will have his moments.As said I think it is great that we you can see Surman, Hoolahoops and Morison possibly starting on the bench... all capable of scoring goals. I still feel Morison will be champing at the bit, what an amazing season he had and his, so called blip, came when we changed our system around intergrated Jackson in to the line ups, even played him on his own against Fulham away. We are at our best when we had Holt and Morison upfront and two wide players. We are not going to beat teams with fancy football coming through the middle. We are gonig to beat them by getting the ball to the wingers and the by-line... delivering that cross for two feared centre forwards to attack. Many centre back partnerships will remember Holt and Morison causing problems.

[Boyo 0]

Personally I see Hoolahan as an impact sub next season.  This is because I think our best formation is 4-4-2 and you can''t put Hoolahan in that formation.  IMO Jonny Howson is our key man next season and I think if we can play him alongside a decent central midfield partner (maybe Fox, maybe someone new), with Pilkington and Bennett either side on the wings then we will have a really strong midfield capable of creating and scoring plenty of goals.

 

When teams are tired in the last 20 minutes or so the last thing they want to see is a player of Wes Hoolahan''s quality coming off the bench and I think he is the ideal player for an impact sub in this league.

[Redders Right Foot 22]

442 diamond would work. lone striker works well with hoolahan as long as he sticks to the wings. he is one hell of a midfielder, sets up players beautifully, but when the ball is given to him infront of goal, the poor lad sends in a request and waits two years before he decides he has been given permission to shoot.

[GJP 79]

Just a quality player, a joy to watch. You don''t see many better players at Norwich and certainly not many as good as keeping the ball as he is and finding yellow shirts.