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AndyCanary

Holts Agent is in the press again Lee Payne'intheass!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Apologies for non working link.

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I think shuck is onto something here.... Hughton has been away since the euros began with not much in between... Could he be at the euros and more to the point return with a couple of new signings?

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No way should he decide when he wants a new contract. He agreed one a year ago! Plus other dads in the team will want more money and that''s where football clubs spend most of their income on wages!

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I will have no feeling either way, but I do not think he deserves a new contract.He has a great contract that sees him through to 33, no doubt got a premeirship bonus. He is trying his luck, realises he does not have that much value around the league and that he will probably play more games at carrow road than anywhere else.He should have the talk but baulk on his discussions, the football club is bigger and needs to find a new number 1 striker anyway this summer. The following Summer possibly look at another striker if Vaughan, Morison, Holt or Jacko haave not established that number 2 striker. I personally feel with Morison and Vaughan we have two who can be successful this year, but we need some class who will be on more money that Holty because of their natural ability and capabilities.Yes Holty, thank you and you have been a great forward and you will be. But you deserve no more from this club, we have as a group of players, management team have brought the success as much as your goals. You are important but this has not been just your show. You have been paid handsomly and re-negotiated a new deal, now get out and play for this club. Or if you really feel you can move on, prove it and get on with it. Tell Hughton/ McNally you want to leave. Then West Ham can hace you and enjoy being behind Carlton Cole in the pecking order and realising you were on to a good thing at FCR rather than the ££££.

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[quote user="smooth"]I will have no feeling either way, but I do not think he deserves a new contract.He has a great contract that sees him through to 33, no doubt got a premeirship bonus. He is trying his luck, realises he does not have that much value around the league and that he will probably play more games at carrow road than anywhere else.He should have the talk but baulk on his discussions, the football club is bigger and needs to find a new number 1 striker anyway this summer. The following Summer possibly look at another striker if Vaughan, Morison, Holt or Jacko haave not established that number 2 striker. I personally feel with Morison and Vaughan we have two who can be successful this year, but we need some class who will be on more money that Holty because of their natural ability and capabilities.Yes Holty, thank you and you have been a great forward and you will be. But you deserve no more from this club, we have as a group of players, management team have brought the success as much as your goals. You are important but this has not been just your show. You have been paid handsomly and re-negotiated a new deal, now get out and play for this club. Or if you really feel you can move on, prove it and get on with it. Tell Hughton/ McNally you want to leave. Then West Ham can hace you and enjoy being behind Carlton Colein the pecking order and realising you were on to a good thing at FCR rather than the ££££.

[/quote]

So if your employer promises you a reward of improved terms, after you''ve created millions of pounds of value for the firm during your previous year''s performance - ut then your employer renages on the agreement. Meanwhile another firm approaches you and offer to double your money.

What would you do? Would you think "I''m paid hansomly and I don''t deserve a new contract?"

Of course you wouldn''t. Double standards.

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[quote user="smooth"]I will have no feeling either way, but I do not think he deserves a new contract.

He has a great contract that sees him through to 33, no doubt got a premeirship bonus. He is trying his luck, realises he does not have that much value around the league and that he will probably play more games at carrow road than anywhere else.

He should have the talk but baulk on his discussions, the football club is bigger and needs to find a new number 1 striker anyway this summer. The following Summer possibly look at another striker if Vaughan, Morison, Holt or Jacko haave not established that number 2 striker. I personally feel with Morison and Vaughan we have two who can be successful this year, but we need some class who will be on more money that Holty because of their natural ability and capabilities.

Yes Holty, thank you and you have been a great forward and you will be. But you deserve no more from this club, we have as a group of players, management team have brought the success as much as your goals. You are important but this has not been just your show. You have been paid handsomly and re-negotiated a new deal, now get out and play for this club. Or if you really feel you can move on, prove it and get on with it. Tell Hughton/ McNally you want to leave. Then West Ham can hace you and enjoy being behind Carlton Cole in the pecking order and realising you were on to a good thing at FCR rather than the ££££.


[/quote]

 

There speaks the voice of common sense, and economic realism. I agree with pretty much every word of what smooth says.

 

I noticed on another thread that those of us with this hard-nosed attitude are now being branded as "Holt Haters". What a load of squit. I respect Holt for what he''s done for this club, and he will always hold a special place in my heart as regards NCFC . But, over the last few weeks, his antics, (or if you prefer to be charitable, the antics of Lee Payne) have not shown him in the best light.  In case some of the apologists have not noticed ,there is something of an economic crisis going on right now, and, as the bankers and bosses are finding, if already well paid people start taking the p*ss and quibbling over terms of contracts they''ve already signed in good faith, or a few more thousand quid, it leaves a sour taste in the mouth of those of us who are struggling to make ends meet.

 

The best outcome for all would be for GH to come to his senses, commit himself 100% to NCFC and get on with it. But, as smooth says, if he thinks he can get a better deal at Upton Pk, Villa Pk or wherever, then good luck to him. We do not want people at CR whose hearts are not in it. It would be economic suicide to acceed to GH''s demands, and those who say it would be impossible/too expensive to replace him, are not only deluded, but show a scandalous lack of trust in  and respect for our board ,CEO ,and manager. They deserve better.

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 So if your employer promises you a reward of improved terms, after you''ve created millions of pounds of value for the firm during your previous year''s performance - ut then your employer renages on the agreement. Meanwhile another firm approaches you and offer to double your money. What would you do? Would you think "I''m paid hansomly and I don''t deserve a new contract?" Of course you wouldn''t. Double standards

That looks great when you look at it like that Kingston, but of course, it isn''t is it?

So if your employer promises you a reward of improved terms, (Err, I certainly don''t see anything about a promise)

after you''ve created millions of pounds of value for the firm  (After he has HELPED create £M''s of pounds, along with many others who are more than happy with their contracts)

ut then your employer renages on the agreement  (All they did was postpone talks because it wasn''t convenient - wow big deal)

Meanwhile another firm approaches you and offer to double your money. What would you do?  (We are not talking about the man in the street here are we? We are not talking about people like me being offered a few hundred pounds, footballers are already on life changing amounts)

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Quite true, Eric et al. There is also the timing of Holt and his agents bleatings too, this coming from the club captain and aimed to hit the club at a low point, as the manager had just walked out - it showed complete disregard for both the club and us as supporters.

I don''t really see the ''looking after his family'' as that much of an argument - footballers at this level are well paid by any measure and two-three years should see them pretty much set for life. They are not normal employees like the rest of us as we effectively ''own'' their registration; you can''t really sign a 3-year contract one year, throw your toys out about it the next, and try to take the moral high ground when that salary is £1m a year. Of course that is not to say they don''t want more, but there are better ways to go about it.

The problem is that people are now being wrongly pigeon-holed as Holt haters for just pointing out a few relevant facts. I still reckon this saga has not gone beyond the point of resolution, and hope that Holt stays. But if he goes, the idea that our chances next season have gone, or that we won''t be able to replace him is quite frankly laughable.

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It''s always amazing how ''looking after my family'' arguments comes out to justify greedy footballers and this isnt a shot at Grant Holt they all wheel out that self justifying statement. How much money does one family need to live a comfortable life? But then i guess that private jet to get them to school on time safely wont buy itself.

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[quote user="crabbycanary"]

That looks great when you look at it like that Kingston, but of course, it isn''t is it?

Err, I certainly don''t see anything about a promise

All they did was postpone talks because it wasn''t convenient - wow big deal

[/quote]

I didn''t realise we had someone amongst us who was actually privy to the negotiations. Please do go ahead and enlighten me with ''how it is.'' I''ve been waiting for some insider info.

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Grant holt has played in all 4 divisions of english football, including for respected teams like forest and Sheffield Wednesday, he ain''t short of a few quid. As a premiership footballer he won''t be short.

It isn''t looking after his family, i would buy that if he had spent 15 years in the conference... It''s about someone thinking he is more important than he actually is..... Holding the club, his employer, to ransome..... If we give in to holt then we have 20 other players following suit....

If we stick to our guns, sell him and get a younger (and better).striker in then the rest of the lads toe the line....

Holt won''t be getting a contract.... He blew his chance as soon as he opened his mouth.....

Those of you who want him to stay..... His head has been turned..... What makes you think his heart will be in it whisky more clubs come sniffing?

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OP if you love him that much go and support the next club he plays for!!! If he doesnt want to play for City he should go,  he cannot try and renegotiate a contract every summer!! If his agent or himself had the belief they now do why was a better contract not negotiated LAST summer? He was happy with his new deal then so he should have negotiated a contract with trigger clauses i.e so many goals he got a further year etc.

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[quote user="baldyboy"]OP if you love him that much go and support the next club he plays for!!! If he doesnt want to play for City he should go,  he cannot try and renegotiate a contract every summer!! If his agent or himself had the belief they now do why was a better contract not negotiated LAST summer? He was happy with his new deal then so he should have negotiated a contract with trigger clauses i.e so many goals he got a further year etc.
[/quote]

 

He was told that they''d look at his contract again once he''d proved himself in the Prem. Unless I''m mistaken, he did that.

 

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[quote user="Kingston Yellow"][quote user="crabbycanary"] That looks great when you look at it like that Kingston, but of course, it isn''t is it? Err, I certainly don''t see anything about a promise All they did was postpone talks because it wasn''t convenient - wow big deal [/quote] I didn''t realise we had someone amongst us who was actually privy to the negotiations. Please do go ahead and enlighten me with ''how it is.'' I''ve been waiting for some insider info.[/quote]

 

Hang on a minute, Kingston..... you were the one who started talking about "promises", and "reneging on deals" !

 

I do not believe such an allegation has been made by any party, certainly not publicly. So maybe its  you, Kingston who is claiming that he''s privy to some special insider knowledge ?

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]Grant holt has played in all 4 divisions of english football, including for respected teams like forest and Sheffield Wednesday, he ain''t short of a few quid. As a premiership footballer he won''t be short.

It isn''t looking after his family, i would buy that if he had spent 15 years in the conference... It''s about someone thinking he is more important than he actually is..... Holding the club, his employer, to ransome..... If we give in to holt then we have 20 other players following suit....

If we stick to our guns, sell him and get a younger (and better).striker in then the rest of the lads toe the line....

Holt won''t be getting a contract.... He blew his chance as soon as he opened his mouth.....

Those of you who want him to stay..... His head has been turned..... What makes you think his heart will be in it whisky more clubs come sniffing?[/quote]

I think you''re out of touch with what low league players earn. Sheffield Wednesday are and were skint when Holt was there. Holt has earned a very modest income for the vast majority of his career

I agree he''s had his head turned. I for one hope Hughton can turn it back. Selling him and getting a younger model in? Where do you suggest we find a striker who can score 15 goals in the Prem? And at what cost?

The club will offer him a new contract - they know how crucial his goals are. The stage is set for Hughton to ride in on his white charger. Hope he can pacify both parties. I think that would be a good outcome for all concerned.

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[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

[quote user="Kingston Yellow"][quote user="crabbycanary"] That looks great when you look at it like that Kingston, but of course, it isn''t is it? Err, I certainly don''t see anything about a promise All they did was postpone talks because it wasn''t convenient - wow big deal [/quote] I didn''t realise we had someone amongst us who was actually privy to the negotiations. Please do go ahead and enlighten me with ''how it is.'' I''ve been waiting for some insider info.[/quote]

 

Hang on a minute, Kingston..... you were the one who started talking about "promises", and "reneging on deals" !

 

I do not believe such an allegation has been made by any party, certainly not publicly. So maybe its  you, Kingston who is claiming that he''s privy to some special insider knowledge ?

[/quote]

I''m not claiming anything of the sort. Facts have been scant. However I do know that GH has handed in a transfer request. I do know it''s because GH feels the club have reneged on an agreement. I do know that negotiations then broke down and I do know that at least one club has offered a material sum of money for his services which (and this is an assumption but I believe it is a reasonable assumption) would address his concerns with his current contract.

I don''t believe Holt has handled this well but the club have made a real hash of it. If Holt leaves and the instigator was McNally digging his heels in over a 1 year extension we will look very silly indeed.

My point is, what Holt has done is nothing that the average man in the street would do and anyone who says any different has double standards IMO.

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[quote user="Kingston Yellow"]? The club will offer him a new contract - they know how crucial his goals are. The stage is set for Hughton to ride in on his white charger. Hope he can pacify both parties. I think that would be a good outcome for all concerned.[/quote]

 

I''d certainly agree with that, Kingston. One would hope that there''s got to be a compromise somewhere.

 

But I still don''t know where you''re getting this "reneging on a deal" thing from . It''s purely your assumption. Nothing like that has ever been stated by anyone.

 

And I''m still very disappointed re your attitude to the ability of the manager etc to attract new  young talent to the club. You obviously have scant faith in their competence . I really cannot believe that someone who claims to be a NCFC supporter has such little confidence in the way the club is run, or is prepared to give our new manager the benefit of the doubt.

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[quote user="Kingston Yellow"][quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

[quote user="Kingston Yellow"][quote user="crabbycanary"] That looks great when you look at it like that Kingston, but of course, it isn''t is it? Err, I certainly don''t see anything about a promise All they did was postpone talks because it wasn''t convenient - wow big deal [/quote] I didn''t realise we had someone amongst us who was actually privy to the negotiations. Please do go ahead and enlighten me with ''how it is.'' I''ve been waiting for some insider info.[/quote]

 

Hang on a minute, Kingston..... you were the one who started talking about "promises", and "reneging on deals" !

 

I do not believe such an allegation has been made by any party, certainly not publicly. So maybe its  you, Kingston who is claiming that he''s privy to some special insider knowledge ?

[/quote]

I''m not claiming anything of the sort. Facts have been scant. However I do know that GH has handed in a transfer request. I do know it''s because GH feels the club have reneged on an agreement. I do know that negotiations then broke down and I do know that at least one club has offered a material sum of money for his services which (and this is an assumption but I believe it is a reasonable assumption) would address his concerns with his current contract.

I don''t believe Holt has handled this well but the club have made a real hash of it. If Holt leaves and the instigator was McNally digging his heels in over a 1 year extension we will look very silly indeed.

My point is, what Holt has done is nothing that the average man in the street would do and anyone who says any different has double standards IMO.[/quote]Kingston, no-one has any idea what has gone on behind the scenes, we don''t know if it''s true that McNally called Holt over the hill (or whatever it was Payne claimed). What we do know if that Holt was offered a new contract the summer before he threw in a transfer a request over another contract and that the demands of Holt and his agent have been agreed to but it''s all ''too late''. What i deduce from what we know is that Holt was in no place to be asking for a new contract in the first place, he had recently signed a new contract, a premier league standard contract. Now all we can do is assume that his agent did put the bonuses or extra year clause in when he had the chance, and is mnaking a real fuss about it having realised his mistake, or perhaps he wants one last pay packet from his best client before he retires. Payne is a league 2/1 player agent, this is his first, only and last chance to earn a large paypacket from one of his players and that''s what he''s been hoping to do. I think perhaps holt is also aware that he could get paid a bit better at another club, he will most likely get less games and wont be loved by the fans and could well end up playing most of the season on the bench. Now if that''s what he wants then let him go, he has earnt A HELL OF A LOT of money in his lifetime, playing at Notts and Sheff he would be earning somewhere between 4-10 K each week, include signing on fees and his time with us, this man will be in a very comfy position when he retires, while he could also continue earning with a coaching role, one he could walk into at carrow rd if he doesn''t leave, or something with the media.

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When he starts scoring goals again next season you''ll all love him again....Yes his decisions have been questionable (at best) during the close season but come on... he''s a footballer, they arent exactly the brightest of people are they?

WFL GH!

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I''ve got a lot of confidence in Hughton Eric. I think he''s a great appointment. Certainly my first choice. I also have a lot of confidence in McNally and Bowcott - how they responded to the Lambert exit was really impressive.

Equally, I don''t under estimate how difficult and expensive it will be to replace someone who scored 15 goals in the prem. Their salary would be much more than Holt''s.

The agreement I''m refering to is the understanding that if Holt had a good first season in the Prem he would be offered an extension. Whilst it was Holt''s agent who made this claim, the club have not denied it so assume there''s some truth to it.

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[quote user="Kingston Yellow"]the understanding that if Holt had a good first season in the Prem he would be offered an extension. Whilst it was Holt''s agent who made this claim, the club have not denied it so assume there''s some truth to it.[/quote]

 

Sorry, but I do not think you can make that assumption at all. You are putting two and two together and getting seven !  It''s far more likely that the club do not wish to get involved in a megaphone diplomacy, tit for tat ,war of words with Holt and his agent . And I''d support them fully in that strategy, as once that sort of thing starts, invariably things start getting out of hand, and the claims get sillier and sillier.

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Hang on Kingston, I never said I was in the know, YOU were the one who started the ''I know what''s going on'' routine. I was just responding to your ''knowledge''. Don''t get sarky, just because I challenged your opinion.

Also, the bit about ''any man in the street would do the same'', I think I offered a different angle on that, and another poster has said something similar (about life changing amounts). The priniciple is the same (offered ''double'' the money, would you look  after your family etc) The minutae is totally different (amount of money, money ''required'' to live off, chance of getting another job when retired etc etc) You can easily say it is double standards when you take the argument at face value, but not when you delve a bit deeper, that was all I was expanding on.

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[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]It''s always amazing how ''looking after my family'' arguments comes out to justify greedy footballers and this isnt a shot at Grant Holt they all wheel out that self justifying statement. How much money does one family need to live a comfortable life? But then i guess that private jet to get them to school on time safely wont buy itself.[/quote]

Utterly agree.

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Everyone else has to tighten their belts, pay freezes, drop in standard of living etc etc yet footy players still want more and more. Has to stop at some point. It''s simply greed.

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The poorer example of the way it is sometimes done, unfortunately = Grant Holt.

 

The way it should be done, as the best example = Adam Drury.

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Can''t believe that there are people denying that it was stated that Holts primary reason for putting in a transfer request as stated by Holt''s agent right back at the beginning of this whole thing was because he claimed to have been promised a "discussion" on an extension to his contract following the end of the season.

That at that point it was not about "greed" or "more money" but about an extra year.

People talking about greed have a good point, it would also make more sense if they were mentioning names who were actually on "big money". As with all things in the job market you pay the going rates and you get the quality you want but that isn''t what this was all supposed to be about in the beginning.

What it has become is a dogs dinner of fans speculating, unusually bad communications from a players agent which I can quite happily believe has come about through absolutely NO communication from the club. McNasty is playing hardball, it''s the McNasty we have come to know and appreciate for some things but when we actually pay the bills, whilst we don''t actually own the shares you''d think it would be better wouldn''t you. It could also just be that someone who believed what he was told and believed in doing his job then became frustrated about a situation not of his making and as it developed possibly feared he was being hung out to dry.

Speculation? Yes, lots of it about. No worse and no better than anything said already on here.

Give the guy a break, since we are all in the dark it could just be that he felt in the same position!

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Should give him 3 years in return Holty gets rid of that agent of his.

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