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Wings of a Sparrow

BBC 1 Panorama 20:30 tonight, Euro 2012: Stadiums of Hate

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an interesting point is that as a coincidence both of the host nations of euro 2012 are in England''s 2014 world cup qualification group. Any of the behavior directed at our players or fans during this tournament and surely the FA should be pressing for the away games against these two countries in our group to be played either behind closed doors or at a neutral venue??

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dylanisabaddog, what can''t you believe? that people are condeming this sort of behaviour? Is this really so shocking? I watched football back in the 80''s a a child and I don''t remember mass nazi salutes, anti jewish chants, rascist banners, burning flags, burning the stadium and beating up Asians. OK, yes there were a few monkey chants and a little bit of agro, but this was a long time ago. We have moved on since then, these scenes are therefore shocking to many of us now, we are not being hypocrites, just demonstrating how disgusting we find this behaviour nowadays.

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[quote user="Marty"]

dylanisabaddog, what can''t you believe? that people are condeming this sort of behaviour? Is this really so shocking? I watched football back in the 80''s a a child and I don''t remember mass nazi salutes, anti jewish chants, rascist banners, burning flags, burning the stadium and beating up Asians. OK, yes there were a few monkey chants and a little bit of agro, but this was a long time ago. We have moved on since then, these scenes are therefore shocking to many of us now, we are not being hypocrites, just demonstrating how disgusting we find this behaviour nowadays.

[/quote]Love it! "OK yes, there were a few monkey chants and a little bit of agro, but this was a long time ago".So if somebody made a documentary about racism in England would that mean that ALL English people are racist?

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Hi All... I dont post very often. However after reading your feedback on Poland had to get on here and set the record straight, (On Poland Atleast). I lived and worked in Warsaw for nearly 4 years, lived in some good areas and also in supposedly some bad areas. As we know the poles know how to drink, but during that whole time I only ever saw 2 pieces of what I would call close to any real trouble. Nothing to compare with the neolithic goings on that happen on Prince of Wales Road and other Moronic areas of our fine city on a weekly basis. I watched Legia play, and admitedly there were some colourful characters, (For Sure You needed to keep your eyes open). Again I saw no trouble. Poland may not be perfect but for sure its taking steps in the right direction. The dawn of new stadiums means that the poles are really pushing for a more family friendly atmosphere at the football. Like I said, its not perfect but for sure they are trying. For me the real worry is the Ukraine, I will be at the ENG vs FRA game. Me and some friends will simply drive to the border. Stay at the border. Make the 12 hour dash to Kiev, watch the game and get the hell out, thats a fact. We will not be hanging around in Donetsk any longer than required. My fingers are crossed though that the Panorama episode, (Which I havent seen as I live in Sweden) is simple scare mongering. We shall see, Im hoping that the reputation of a nation I personally hold close to my heart will not be tarnished.

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when you think of the way poland , the ukraine and most other baltic or ex soviet countries suffered at the hands of facism and now seem to embrace it, it makes you wonder why we bothered declaring war on germany

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We were fighting for our own freedom as well. A small matter to overlook.

 

An uncle of mine spent the rest of his life in an invalid carriage, because he had wooden legs as a result of that particular piece of "bother."

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I think Sol Campbell nailed it on the head when he said that until these sorts of things are much better policed and prevented, absolutely no major tournament or games should be held there.Whether it''s Poland, Ukraine, or any other country with this level of hatred on display should never be allowed to host major events.Watching that was like going back in a horrible time machine and some of the scenes were truly beyond belief.Thank f**k I''m not going anywhere near these places to watch the Euro''s, and I just hope that the fans that do travel don''t get exposed to this as otherwise we could have a major international incident on our hands...

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It''s certainly `enlightening`....Disgusting that by being racist anti-semetic tw*ts, they''re rewarded with the most prestigous European football competition...

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Looks like a minor backlash to Campbell''s comments, with Ukraine''s Euro 2012 director Markian Lubkivsky calling his comments "Insolent". This has then been backed up by Andriy Shevchenko who completely misses the point with comments of: "We don''t have a real problem here about racism""The country''s very quiet and people are very friendly."I guess the BBC were using those camera''s that show completely the opposite of what they''re meant to be filming...I know they won''t like the bad press, but what has been filmed is real, disturbing and should have an impact on the decision for fans to travel.

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[quote user="Thisisbabyish"]That chap from Ukraine was political gold!

"Er no it''s not racist! they''re just pointing at the opposition!"

Boris couldn''t spin that![/quote]That chap, i think, was a fairly important member of the Police.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Looks like a minor backlash to Campbell''s comments, with Ukraine''s Euro 2012 director Markian Lubkivsky calling his comments "Insolent". This has then been backed up by Andriy Shevchenko who completely misses the point with comments of: "We don''t have a real problem here about racism""The country''s very quiet and people are very friendly."I guess the BBC were using those camera''s that show completely the opposite of what they''re meant to be filming...I know they won''t like the bad press, but what has been filmed is real, disturbing and should have an impact on the decision for fans to travel.[/quote]I kind of get to an extent the discontent towards the BBC trying to create a stereotype as im sure not all Polish / Ukraine fans are racists.HOWEVER, what they did film, did happen. There''s no argument for or against that. And you do not see that in English football, not even close to it, in the 21st Century. Barking on about how bad England used to be is all well and good, but this situation is more importantly about the health & safety of english fans this year watching their team. If i was asian, black or whatever i wouldn''t even contemplate going this year.

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Haven''t seen this, but Sky News did a 30 minute report a couple of weeks back.  Jammed pack full of moral panic, they''d have you believe it''s like Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s. Putting your level head on. Is it really that bad? Or is a tiny minority of thug wannabes looking for attention. And the media blowing it out of proportion.  Put it this way. The Beijing Olympics was supposed to be a smog saturated cauldron, and the South African World Cup was the danger of getting mugged as soon as you stepped of the plane and catching aids even if you looked at a local.

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Hogesar, you''re one of the first bits of sense in this thread!

The BBC Documentary ISN''T trying to say that everyone in Poland or Ukraine is racist. In fact, at one point it even mentioned how stadiums are encouraging family areas and stuff to make the atmosphere more friendly.

But like Hogesar said, it''s not like they''ve made this up, they genuinely filmed what you saw, and it definitely happened. That''s the issue.

And I agree, what Campbell said is entirely right. No country should be allowed to host such an event if immoral happenings, and the impossibility to guarantee safety to players and fans is apparently, they should not be rewarded.

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[quote user="AJ"]In fact, at one point it even mentioned how stadiums are encouraging family areas and stuff to make the atmosphere more friendly. [/quote]That''s right, and I''m sure that the Asian fans who were seated in these areas appreciated that effort as they were getting the $hit kicked out of them...

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He does it because people like you give him endless attention and rise to every comment. Ignore him, and watch him shrivel away like the little gnarled nut sack that he is.

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[quote user="w1seguy"]He does it because people like you give him endless attention and rise to every comment. Ignore him, and watch him shrivel away like the little gnarled nut sack that he is.[/quote]What?

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[quote user="w1seguy"]He does it because people like you give him endless attention and rise to every comment. Ignore him, and watch him shrivel away like the little gnarled nut sack that he is.[/quote]I can''t help but feel that `wiseguy` is the biggest misnomer in history.(Moreso than that snake in a Series Of Unfortunate Events..)

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Say what you like.... those Nazi uniforms were well smart.

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[quote user="Cluck Nose."]Say what you like.... those Nazi uniforms were well smart.[/quote]Haha [:D] Be prepared Cluck! I don''t mind crude humour but others on here..

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[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Cluck Nose."]Say what you like.... those Nazi uniforms were well smart.
[/quote]

Haha [:D] Be prepared Cluck! I don''t mind crude humour but others on here..
[/quote] Behave its not a crude sense of humour..... its called attention seeking in clucks case any attentions better than no attention AWHHH bless his heart

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"Nazi symbols can be seen at ... any match in England, but does it mean that fans should not come to London for the Olympics?"Oleg Voloshyn Ukrainian Foreign Ministry spokesman

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[quote user="A Certain Poster"]"Nazi symbols can be seen at ... any match in England, but does it mean that fans should not come to London for the Olympics?"Oleg Voloshyn Ukrainian Foreign Ministry spokesman

[/quote]

I saw this just now too... Had to make an account after years of lurking to express how speechless over that quote I am...

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[quote user="kick it off"]This is the one thing that shames me about being Polish. I forget who said it was more of a problem in Poland than the Ukraine, but I disagree with this - it is a problem of all the former Soviet states in Eastern Europe equally, and I think you will find this when you go over to Ukraine.

There is no hiding the fact that this goes on and it is utterly abhorrent and I condemn it 100%. I can only hope that having the Euros will help further intercultural relations in Poland but I fear we may see some ugly scenes, that is my one great worry about us being the host nation.

Poland have recently had a black (Nigerian) Centre Forward (Emmanuel Olisadebe) and a "naturalised" Brazilian (Roger Guerrerio) playing for the national team and a significant proportion of the fanbase accepted them, but there were signs saying "Roger: You''ll never be Polish" and similar at several games.

It is a real problem of the former Soviet block who never really experienced the levels of migration that other countries did. This should in no way be interpreted as an excuse, just simply a statement of fact. There is something like 2000 different Neo-Nazi Skinhead gangs in Russia and there are plenty in Poland and Ukraine too, although i don''t have figures for this.

Stupid as Poland is a nation which lost 6 million people to the nazis and suffered horrendously, you think that the Polish people would have some sort of conscience about racism.[/quote]I have to agree with you, my dear. The Bulgarians have a rather big problem with the Roma.

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I lived in Ukraine a while back and found the footage on Panorama utterly deplorable. I went to quite a few Ukrainian Premier League matches and did witness a few ''monkey chants'' which was, obviously, horrendous. I didn''t see any of this Nazi stuff though. I''d say, on balance, that racism is more accepted in Ukraine than it is in Britain but I didn''t see any of the racist graffiti shown in Poland. I never saw any racially motivated ''aggro'' while in Ukraine and actually felt safer there on a night out than I do in Britain. Eastern Europe certainly has it''s problems but random drunken violence doesn''t appear to happen as much there as it does in Britain. I''m not trying to defend their actions in any way, shape or form but I''d be fairly confident that people would be safe if they were to travel to the Euros in Ukraine. I do, however, agree that these tournaments should not be given to countries who display such endemic racism at their football matches. They should be seen as a privilege not a right and, frankly, I''m not sure either Poland or Ukraine has earned that privilege yet. On a side note- I currently live in China where there is also an undercurrent of racism, especially towards black people. It''s very rare for a Chinese person to see a foreigner just as it''s very rare for a Ukrainian to come across one. Perhaps we, in Britain, are lucky that our multicultural history has allowed us to largely move past such barbaric opinions. We are also lucky that our government has seen fit to take a strong stance against public displays of racism, the same certainly can''t be said for the regimes in China or Ukraine.

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Same topic, different angle so thought I would post it here rather than start a new thread...

Balotelli has said today that he will walk off the pitch if he is subjected to any racial abuse during the Euro''s. The guys is a bit of a numpty sometimes but if he did walk off during a game I for one would doff my cap to the fella and to any england player that decided to do the same. How would you feel if one of our players did the same? would you support his actions?

 

 

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[quote user="Son Ova Gunn"]

Same topic, different angle so thought I would post it here rather than start a new thread...

Balotelli has said today that he will walk off the pitch if he is subjected to any racial abuse during the Euro''s. The guys is a bit of a numpty sometimes but if he did walk off during a game I for one would doff my cap to the fella and to any england player that decided to do the same. How would you feel if one of our players did the same? would you support his actions?

 

 

[/quote]I would applaud Balotelli if he did that, and it would make interesting tv, I would also support any Black english player doing the same, it would make the authorites sit up and take notice.

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