Has the board blown it again?

[CanaryOne 0]

[quote user="Gareth"][quote user="Ncfc"]If you want to be a Premiership club somewhere along the line you have to sign Premiership class players and pay Premiership wages , unfair on Lambert to expect him to keep signing Championship and League 1 players and be able to keep us up . I do not think we are really a top flight club , our finances scream middle of the Championship , and how much better off will we be after relegation next season  ? maybe a few extra million to Lambert now would in the long run have been a better investment than another decade in the Championship ,[/quote]

It''s all well and good saying we need to spend more money, but unless you know where we can get more money then you argument has no point.

[/quote]This is the Premiership with its multi millions where even teams like Swansea fork out £7 million for players yet when it comes to us its always no money and £2million bargain bucket signings , the Premiership is a windfall it seems to every team bar City , was the same story when we last went up under Worthington , cheap crap signed then spent a little in January when  it was all to late .

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]

Right ill explain my point again as you seem to have missed it. No I do not expect us to go into the red and spend millions just to keep Lambert happy. The point was we had a fantastic opportunity here and however you look at it, from any angle, weve bloody blown it. Whether that be because the board couldnt find any further investment or were just not prepared to jeopardise the improved financial standing we now find ourselves in. The point im making is that surely the Board could have seen this coming, and given that under Lambert i think we were on the verge of greatness, could the Board have done more?[/quote]

 

But what specifically could the board have done, apart from spending millions and going into the red, which you have ruled out? The board has twice hired experts to try to find investment and drawn a blank. Bowkett said early last year that expressions of interest from more than 50 supposed investors had not thrown up a single example of someone with the money to back their promises. Looked at closely the "investment" turned out to be a mirage. On the other hand Foulger, who is not a billionaire, pumped in £2m.

We no longer have any serious assets to sell, unless you think it a good idea to sell Colney or Carrow Road. We have had to pay off millions of external debt, including that to the Turners. To cut costs non-football staff have been slashed by 22 per cent in the last three years. A fact probably not unconnected with complaints about customer service. The money we give to charity has been reduced. Prices in general have been raised. The lowest of the three grades for casual tickets was effectively scrapped this last season. It is not as if the club has been run in a financially riotous fashion while Lambert has been here. So, again, what could the board have done?

[YellowFellow 0]

has everyone complaining about are reluctance to spend big and our boards ''lack of ambition'', and blaming that for the reason lambert wants to leave, forgotten that the team he is going to has, amongst others, sold Milner, downing and ashley Young in recent years. under oneil for a time they were challenging in the top 6, now they have bent and shay given, but who else? They have no more ambition then we do, its just they can promise the earth to lambert. Good luck to lambert, thank you for the last 3 seasons, but i wont be unhappy whhen we finish 10th next season and villa go down

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Morison''s Prozac: You do know our board is almost 100% different now don''t you?

Tangible: Not so, the holders of the real power, i.e, Delia & MWJ. are still on the board as is Mr. Foulger.

 

[a1canary 0]

On the verge of greatness?

Think you''re getting ahead of yourself a tad there Matt. I absolutely agree that Lambert is on the verge of greatness. But he was never going to be prepared to wait and stay part of project NCFC to achieve it. He is not a man of patience and while our stars have been perfectly aligned since he walked in to Carrow Road, he is now way ahead of us. Wake up tomorrow with no debt, a 35k stadium, and fully implemented amd enforced Financial Fair Play, and there''s no question we could have held on to him for some time longer. And maybe even achieved the level of greatness to which you refer.

But I just think we need to accept we were never going to be able to hang on to him if he did well in his first season, for the reasons above.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]The fact that its Villa is sickening and to me is pointing to one thing, the boards failure to financially back arguably the best young manager in the country[/quote]You can''t give someone something you don''t have.If we can only afford X amount of money, then demanding Y is an exercise in futility regardless of how annoying the situation may be.In order for us to increase the funds available, we''d have needed outside investment, which considering we''ve been looking for years - even to the extent of hiring Deloitte to formerly investigate options - we''ve found nothing. So the question I ask you is - Where is this extra money coming from?[quote]Now the way I see it is that is that we had a real chance to hit the big time next season, and im talking about top 6 for sure. Based on Lamberts meteoric rise season after season its logical to expect an improvement next season from 12th in the Premier League.

Top 10 I think would have been a certaintly and if not top 6 then the season after surely.[/quote]I love positivity and optimism, but this is going too far.Teams like Spurs, Liverpool and Newcastle have all struggled to maintain a top 6 place in recent years, and they''ve got a hell of a lot more backing and support than we have, and regardless of PL''s managerial aptitude there''s only so much you can do on limited finances. Ask David Moyes, in comparison Everton have spent far less than many in recent years, and despite Moyes ability, even he can''t get top 6 finishes with a better squad than we have![quote]I really think Lambert is that good. I am still yet to see a weakness in his ability. Man management, tactics, purchases, motivation, he has it all. On a level with Ferguson in my opinion.[/quote]I''ve seen a few weaknesses, but that doesn''t mean I don''t rate PL, but to compare him to managers like Ferguson is premature and unjustified so far.[quote]I do appreciate the financial implications tho and we cant give him what we dont have[/quote]With all respect I don''t think you do appreciate this, because if you did you''d understand the financial position we are in, and why we can''t do it any differently.No-one wants another collapse like Portsmouth or Leeds caused by spending what we don''t have, and what''s more - the spending doesn''t guarantee success as both those clubs found to their detriment.[quote]surely the board would have seen this coming and could have done more to secure investment. We were trying desperately to get investment whilst we were a League 1 club and its apparent we got it with the number of signings made over the last 2 years. So now as a 12th placed Prem club surely gaining more investment would be easier?[/quote]It might be ''easier'', but it doesn''t mean there''s a billionaire sitting round every corner itching to throw money at us, and some of the clubs that have recently been taken over or received big investment may come to regret this in a few years time.If experts like Deloitte can''t find an investor, where do you think they''re hiding???[quote]Either way it looks like the board have blown a huge opportunity to take the club back to the days of Walker and Europe, and ironically fighting it out with Aston Villa for the Prem title in the year we finished 3rd.

Sadly we''ll now never know what could have been.[/quote]Not in my mind, they''ve taken a sensible and logical approach in regards to the security of the club and available finance, and have decided they don''t want to risk our future on throwing money at the transfer market or paying crackers wages - an approach I couldn''t agree more with.As the financial fair play rules start to kick in, it''s clubs like us and Arsenal that will be leading the way whilst the Man City''s and Chelsea''s try to explain away their 100m spending on new players...

[Clever Farke 64]

I don''t think this has much to do with the board. We could have bancrupted ourselves and still lost Lambert anyway.

He is astute enough to see that Villa are the premiership equivalent to us in League 1. An success starved, underperforming club, badly mismanaged and a string of failed appointments behind them. With Norwich ticking over I think he misses that buzz of driving a club on and seeing his methods work. He always said you''ve got to have that hunger - and I think that mostly applies to himself. Oh, and there''s the money as well, ha ha. His work here is done and I wish him all the best.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

Spending money we dont dont have would be idiotic especially with FFP comming in. The board has backed Lambert in the transfer market and never sold a player from under him. As for Delia stepping down for a big investor maybe you''d prefer Venky''s and we could get Holty advertising fried chicken to the Asian market together with promises of Ronaldinho signing.

This  might yet be a positive thing, next season was going to be tough, this way a new fresh manager might come in and carry the batton on, it didnt do Newcastle any harm.

For the first time in along time i feel the board has been very professional and knows what it''s doing.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]

With the greatest of respect, fu** off. Im giving my opinion. This is a fans forum.[/quote]

Well said Matt, its about time the Lunatic Tendency (including Tilson) realised that people dont have to follow their opinion.

 

[/quote]

As you seem to be following me all over this board tonight Tangible please read the whole thread and you will see that it was FACTS with regard to rolling contracts and investment provided by me and numerous others that your immature little friend got the hump over and not OPINIONS.

What with him trying to justify himself hiding behind obscenities and you resorting to your pathetic,tiresome and so predictable name calling i don''t think it will be long before Pete pays this thread a visit do you ?

So if posts are removed because of name calling and personal agendas take a long hard look in the mirror and tell yourself in all honesty who were the offenders.

[ron obvious 1,500]

I suspect one of the main reasons Lambert has gone is founded on insecurity. And very well founded insecurity.

Posters have complained about his being two faced, but that is exactly what most fans are like: "we love you Paul, no matter what happens, even if we get relegated ..."

Until it happens, of course.

We only survived this year by prodigious energy & effort. On the occasions those factors dropped, we looked like a Championship side. We do not have any players who can change a game with a moment of sheer brilliance.

He knows it will be probably even more difficult to survive next year; other teams will know us that much better & not all the players may be able to sustain their performance.

Like it or not, Villa have greater potential. He will have judged he has a much better chance of improving Villa''s standing next season than maintaining ours. It is a gamble, but I reckon he thinks the odds are better over there.

Now is the time for McNally to prove his worth ...

[Nuff Said 5,089]

[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]

Now the way I see it is that is that we had a real chance to hit the big time next season, and im talking about top 6 for sure. Based on Lamberts meteoric rise season after season its logical to expect an improvement next season from 12th in the Premier League.

Top 10 I think would have been a certaintly and if not top 6 then the season after surely. So this has NCFC in the top 6 of English football for the first time in 20 yrs. [/quote]Tell you what Matt, there''s an easy way to fix this. Since you can clearly see into the future, pick Friday''s lottery numbers, give the winnings to the club, and then I''m sure Lambert will stay.

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]

With the greatest of respect, fu** off. Im giving my opinion. This is a fans forum.[/quote]

Well said Matt, its about time the Lunatic Tendency (including Tilson) realised that people dont have to follow their opinion.

 

[/quote]

As you seem to be following me all over this board tonight Tangible please read the whole thread and you will see that it was FACTS with regard to rolling contracts and investment provided by me and numerous others that your immature little friend got the hump over and not OPINIONS.

What with him trying to justify himself hiding behind obscenities and you resorting to your pathetic,tiresome and so predictable name calling i don''t think it will be long before Pete pays this thread a visit do you ?

So if posts are removed because of name calling and personal agendas take a long hard look in the mirror and tell yourself in all honesty who were the offenders.

[/quote]

Jesus wept who the hell do you think you are mate?

Just because, and correct me if im wrong, your a part of NCISA and perhaps a shareholder at NCFC, you seem to think your the bloody Ayatollah on this messageboard?

Im not hiding behind obscenities at all, i just deemed your condescending reply worthy of an f off.

" Coupled with your total lack of knowledge regarding rolling contracts i am wondering how much you do know about NCFC and football in general with the greatest of respect ? "

You continue your elitist comments by calling me immature because I didnt appreciate the above comment. Was I supposed to have been overjoyed with your contribution to my post and bowed down to your superior knowledge of Norwich City?

Its actually laughable, " Coupled with your total lack of knowledge regarding rolling contracts " christ, do you actually listen to yourself or re read before you post? Then you bring Pete into the equation in a " miss, miss Matty is using bad language miss, he was effin and jeffin, miss, tell him, tell him ". And we''re the pathetic ones.

You trawl this message board with your big loud Doc Martins on shouting down and belittling anyone that dares to post a comment you dont agree with, in a condescending manner more fitting of tyrannic and bigoted prison warden, not unlike the screw in the film Scum. And then you have the nerve to pipe up again when someone throws an obscenity your way because they didnt appreciate your condescending comments.

Get over yourself Tilson.

[morty 0]

Wow, you really don''t take criticism well, do you?[:D]

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="morty"]Wow, you really don''t take criticism well, do you?[:D][/quote]

It wasnt criticism tho was it Morty.

It was Tilson doing his usual wrapping his ruler over peoples knuckles because he read something he didnt like or agree with, and he gets his ''Im the Great Tilson, bow down to me and my superior knowledge of all things football'' attitude out. Not having it, today of all days.

Plus how can you criticise an opinion? an opinion is neither right or wrong.

[Harry 0]

Matt for just £5 a year you can also be a member of the INCSC as it is now known.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"][quote user="morty"]Wow, you really don''t take criticism well, do you?[:D][/quote]

It wasnt criticism tho was it Morty.

It was Tilson doing his usual wrapping his ruler over peoples knuckles because he read something he didnt like or agree with, and he gets his ''Im the Great Tilson, bow down to me and my superior knowledge of all things football'' attitude out. Not having it, today of all days.

Plus how can you criticise an opinion? an opinion is neither right or wrong.[/quote]Playing Devils advocate, there was a whole first page of folks that disagreed with your opinion before he did though. The fact you chose him maybe suggests a prior disagreement, I honestly don''t know btw.The board would be a pretty dull place if every thread consisted of someone posting an opinion, and everyone just agreeing with it.

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"][quote user="morty"]Wow, you really don''t take criticism well, do you?[:D][/quote]

It wasnt criticism tho was it Morty.

It was Tilson doing his usual wrapping his ruler over peoples knuckles because he read something he didnt like or agree with, and he gets his ''Im the Great Tilson, bow down to me and my superior knowledge of all things football'' attitude out. Not having it, today of all days.

Plus how can you criticise an opinion? an opinion is neither right or wrong.[/quote]Playing Devils advocate, there was a whole first page of folks that disagreed with your opinion before he did though. The fact you chose him maybe suggests a prior disagreement, I honestly don''t know btw.The board would be a pretty dull place if every thread consisted of someone posting an opinion, and everyone just agreeing with it.

[/quote]

Thats correct Morty, there was, however they all offered there opinion as counter argument to mine, all giving a similar view that the board cant throw money around they dont have, which is fair point and well appreciated by me.

Tilson on the other hand came out with some drivel about his superior knowledge of the NCFC accounts, just because he''s a bloody shareholder and gets a letter once a year, or read it in the EDP, and some absolute smelly stuff about ''Rolling contracts'', followed by what I deemed to be an insult stating I know nothing about the club I love and have supported for 35 yrs, and football in general. All the while blowing is pathetic little trumpet.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"] Tilson on the other hand came out with some drivel about his superior knowledge of the NCFC accounts, just because he''s a bloody shareholder and gets a letter once a year, or read it in the EDP, and some absolute smelly stuff about ''Rolling contracts'', followed by what I deemed to be an insult stating I know nothing about the club I love and have supported for 35 yrs, and football in general. All the while blowing is pathetic little trumpet.[/quote]

And you wonder why i think you are childish and immature.The " drivel " was fact about where investment had come from during Lamberts reign.Where were you when it was all over the local press regarding Michael Foulger pumping in about £2 million.The "smelly stuff" as you put it concerning rolling contracts was one sentence explaining how it worked. That in your mind was me " blowing my pathetic little trumpet ".In response you litter your post with obscene language,now please tell me was that really necessary and as it was aimed at me i will respond so just get that straight. Now you turn your anger in another direction with a topic that Pete put out of bounds a year ago.

Now much of what you posted was in my view way off beam so if you want to e-mail me or meet for a pint face to face the offer is there.

[Matt Morriss 69]

Not lashing out at the board, just asking the question could we have done more when it looks like this has been brewing for weeks.

[Jacko 0]

[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]Not lashing out at the board, just asking the question could we have done more when it looks like this has been brewing for weeks.[/quote]

I just think they were damned whatever they did in this situation Matt.

 

Scenario 1: You allow Lambert to talk to Villa like some say we should have. He likes what he sees and decides to take the job. McNally and the board are slaughtered for being soft little old Norwich.

 

Scenario 2: They refuse to let him speak to Villa. They have been too hard nosed with Lambert causing him to walk away and resign.

 

Ultimately if the manager wants to leave there is very little you can do about it.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

It''s that old blame thing. Something happens that folk don''t like so there has to be a focal point to take it out on. It''s funny because earlier this week I was accused of being "little ol'' Norwich" for suggesting we shouldn''t hold money back from the manager to build a new stand. I guess now nobody cares about the new stand. I never did anyway.[;)]

 

The only loyalty in football is a oneway street from the fans to the club. No one else. Luckily for us the board is overloaded with fans who employ a hardnosed business man to run their club. He will have been prepared for this and will be dealing with it whilst this messageboard melts down.

 

 

[Crispy 4]

[quote user="Tao of Lambert"]I don''t think this has much to do with the board. We could have bancrupted ourselves and still lost Lambert anyway.

He is astute enough to see that Villa are the premiership equivalent to us in League 1. An success starved, underperforming club, badly mismanaged and a string of failed appointments behind them. With Norwich ticking over I think he misses that buzz of driving a club on and seeing his methods work. He always said you''ve got to have that hunger - and I think that mostly applies to himself. Oh, and there''s the money as well, ha ha. His work here is done and I wish him all the best.[/quote]

Spot on Tao of Lambert. He personally does not have much to gain by staying with us bar winning a trophy now & that''s not likely. Him leaving now makes sure no matter what he does in his next job he can fall back on what he achieved here to angel a good club again. If he had stayed another year & got us relegated someone like Villa wouldn''t be interested in him.As much as people can argue we finished above Villa it''s irrelevant... We finished 12th WITH LAMBERT. Who''s to say Lambert couldn''t have finished 6th this year if he had Villa''s squad ?We have a squad of overachievers thanks to Lambert. Before this year none of our first 11 would have even been considered for the Prem but here we are. Luckily Lambert will leave us a bunch of young talented players that with the right manager & a couple of experienced Prem players we could ride this out & stay a Prem team but I very much doubt we will see the growth we have had under Lambert again for a very long time.Thanks Lambert .... let''s just hope you havn''t killed all the momentum we have had over the last 3 years as we are going to need it next season.

[scrappy33 0]

No money. Didn''t we get £50+million for getting promotion and same again for staying up?

[crabbycanary 2]

Can see where you are coming from Crispy. We ''overachieved'' and Villa ''underachieved '' last season. Yep, none of our players would have been considered Prem players a year ago, but if you were to pick a combined team made up from City and Villa players now, how many Villa players would be in the starting 11? Given? Dunne? Cuellar? possibles, but also possibly nots!

 

[Old Shuck 183]

Re.the line about the Board not being prepared to jeopardise then clubs financial future.

 

Would anyone jeopardise their own in a similar way??

 

I could go out and spend £500''000 on a big boat. Moor it in Chichester Harbour, sail around the Broads all Summer. It might attract more friends and interest in me and make me appear successful and desirable...for a while.

 

But it would all soon come crashing down around me-a year or two of living the high life but unsustainable unless I do a JK Rowling-yes, I could and then the money would come rolling in-and NCFC could win the Premier League and see the money rolling in. So I''ll stay as I am and build steadily and progressively with higher goals and aspirations in mind that way rather than take the risk and maybe lose my house in doing so.

 

We are heavily committed to paying off debt. We can''t renegotiate that again or wriggle out of it-as I understand it, when it was last renegotiated, creditors were lenient but the hard stance was "if you go up, you pay us back and very quickly" -so what do we do, ignore them and spend the money "proving" our ambition-then what happens when we can''t meet the repayments, the receivers are brought in and it all goes tits up, then who gets the blame on here-yep, the board. They''re damned if they do, damned if they don''t and damned anyway.

 

No-one wants to invest big money in us because it isn''t investment-say some Sheikh comes along and says "I am investing £150 Million in NCFC" and everyone celebrates, off you go Delia etc etc.

 

Then he wants a return-its an investment remember? We''ve spent it all, now reminds everyone it was an invesment-so how do we pay him back--and then some?

 

The only alternative is someone saying "I will GIVE you £150 Million"-and the fair play rules are going to knock that sort of thing on the head anyway.

 

So no, the Board haven''t "blown it" -but if they did what some people seem to think they should then yes, they most certainly will have blown it. And who''d get the blame? The Board!!

[ron obvious 1,500]

Once again NCFC economy = miniature UK economy.

Easy to gamble with somebody else''s money. No consequences, no fear.

[FourFourTwo 0]

The board''s strategy has steered Norwich City to a position 3 years ago we could only dream about. Now people want to criticise and push for a strategy that would put the very existence of the club at risk, that can''t be allowed to happen.

There''s a plan to grow the club which is working brilliantly. OK they now need to get the next managerial appointment right, but I trust them to do that.

We do have assets, the brilliant signings we''ve made, several players are worth considerably more than we paid for them, we will need to cash in on on 3 or 4 and replace them with more inexpensive players with something to prove.

A target of top 6? Get real. The target is to stay in the Premier League, stay in the black and keep slowly growing.

[fellowyellow 0]

[quote user="Ncfc"][quote user="Gareth"][quote user="Ncfc"]If you want to be a Premiership club somewhere along the line you have to sign Premiership class players and pay Premiership wages , unfair on Lambert to expect him to keep signing Championship and League 1 players and be able to keep us up . I do not think we are really a top flight club , our finances scream middle of the Championship , and how much better off will we be after relegation next season  ? maybe a few extra million to Lambert now would in the long run have been a better investment than another decade in the Championship ,
[/quote]

It''s all well and good saying we need to spend more money, but unless you know where we can get more money then you argument has no point.

[/quote]
This is the Premiership with its multi millions where even teams like Swansea fork out £7 million for players yet when it comes to us its always no money and £2million bargain bucket signings , the Premiership is a windfall it seems to every team bar City , was the same story when we last went up under Worthington , cheap crap signed then spent a little in January when  it was all to late .
[/quote]

I suspect that the problem is as much to do with not paying the current playing staff what they are actually worth, now that they have Premiership experience. I wouldn''t be too surprised if John Ruddy was next to ask for contract re-negotiations......swiftly followed by a transfer request.

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"] Tilson on the other hand came out with some drivel about his superior knowledge of the NCFC accounts, just because he''s a bloody shareholder and gets a letter once a year, or read it in the EDP, and some absolute smelly stuff about ''Rolling contracts'', followed by what I deemed to be an insult stating I know nothing about the club I love and have supported for 35 yrs, and football in general. All the while blowing is pathetic little trumpet.[/quote]

And you wonder why i think you are childish and immature.The " drivel " was fact about where investment had come from during Lamberts reign.Where were you when it was all over the local press regarding Michael Foulger pumping in about £2 million.The "smelly stuff" as you put it concerning rolling contracts was one sentence explaining how it worked. That in your mind was me " blowing my pathetic little trumpet ".In response you litter your post with obscene language,now please tell me was that really necessary and as it was aimed at me i will respond so just get that straight. Now you turn your anger in another direction with a topic that Pete put out of bounds a year ago.

Now much of what you posted was in my view way off beam so if you want to e-mail me or meet for a pint face to face the offer is there.

[/quote]

Haha listen to you, holier than thou arent you Tilson. My response was directly due to your condescending comments, which ive highlighted. At the end of the day if someone spouts belittling condescending comments like you did im just going to greet it with a simple f off. No time for it, especially after the last 2 days.

If you cant handle an obscenity thrown at you, and by the way stop with the immature obscenity rant like youve never sworn in your life and are somehow above me because i resorted to using bad language, if you cant take it then watch what you say to begin with and dont belittle people.

And yes ill happily meet you for a pint, ill be in the Coach and Horses for the England game if you fancy it.

[Crew Cut Wes 0]

Let''s face it, our football club was never going to be ''Lambert''s Norwich'' in the same way that we have Fergus'' Utd, Moyes'' Everton, Wenger''s Arsse, Pulis'' Stoke etc.

If Mackay starts off well and does do well then we may have something good in our hands. A manager that might be able to retain our Prem League status whilst the club expands the stadium and broadens the fanbase with the club''s sustainability the core aim. A manager that would have the full understanding of our club, who would not have his head easily turned by extraneous factors and potentially recreate some stability similar to that of Moyes and co.

I''d like to think that we have perversely used Lambert''s ambition (together with good fortune) to get us where we are and now we both part ways in the direction that we both want to head. Lambert''s ambition is myopic, our''s is not.

Of course, whether Malky Mackay is the right manager to sustain long run (football) stability is an impossibly hard decision but I hold full faith that David McNally, who has proved himself before with Lambert''s appointment, will make the right decision after assessing all risk and uncertainty.