CambridgeCanary 0 Posted May 16, 2012 Support is the issue. I can''t support a team I want (for reasons of the bigger picture) to lose. It''s the same when Manchester United play in Europe. It''s the same when we invaded Iraq. We are all either "My country right or wrong" or "My country when right". I am firmly in the second camp. I appreciate taht many others are in the first camp. Fine. I respect that view. I just can''t share it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromage Frais 14 Posted May 16, 2012 Would love to know how close Holt actually came to getting selected.What happens if Carroll gets injured +1 in the friendlies can we call anyone more up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricky knight 0 Posted May 16, 2012 This was our chance to build for the next world cup, put a young side out get them tournament experience, terry, lampard, Cole Gerrard, never done jack for England, last world cup Was a joke just want a team to care about, this lot i wont even be watching. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salopian 1 Posted May 16, 2012 I suspect that Holty lost out not only because he plays for little Norwich, but also because he''s 31. Welbeck, Sturridge and Oxlade-whatsit could develop in time for the world cup and beyond. I think that we shall struggle to score goals, and I think that our man might have caused or scored one or two. I have a horrible feeling that with Rooney out at first we may not even survive the preliminary round! Be positive, however, Holty will come back in July having rested for several weeks, and give us a flying startfor next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 941 Posted May 16, 2012 Well that''s fair enough in politics and the like Cambridge, I''d agree with you there. I''m not ultra patriotic or anything like that, I''m more than happy to slag off political decisions that I disagree with. However, I think there is a difference between disagreeing with your country when it chooses to invade Iraq, for instance, and when it chooses to pick Andy Carroll to play up front over Grant Holt! I do know what you''re getting at though. I''m "supporting" Bayern this weekend, because I greatly dislike Chelsea, and I''ve got links through university friends and the like with Bayern. At the same time though, I wanted Chelsea to make the final, as I did want an English side there. It looks good for the Premiership and the game in England. To turn it around slightly though, look at Chase (I don''t know the ins and outs there, far too young at the time, but I know the division it caused), look at Worthy Out, look at even Delia a couple of years ago. And if they don''t do it, imagine we get taken over by some rich Americans or similar who come in with big bucks but rip the club to shreds, take the soul out of us, get us relegated anyway. Would you stop supporting Norwich and hope we get stuffed week in week out? Or would you still support them? It''s a tricky one; I certainly would understand if you said you''d hope we lost until they left or whatever. But, for me, I just think that I''d not be able to give up supporting my side, regardless of how painful it was, or regardless of how much I disliked those owning the club/running the show. And the same goes for the England football team in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted May 16, 2012 [quote user="Fromage Frais"]Would love to know how close Holt actually came to getting selected. What happens if Carroll gets injured +1 in the friendlies can we call anyone more up?[/quote]Standby: Butland, Jagielka, Henderson, A Johnson, Sturridge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted May 16, 2012 [quote user="Salopian"]I suspect that Holty lost out not only because he plays for little Norwich, but also because he''s 31. Welbeck, Sturridge and Oxlade-whatsit could develop in time for the world cup and beyond. I think that we shall struggle to score goals, and I think that our man might have caused or scored one or two. I have a horrible feeling that with Rooney out at first we may not even survive the preliminary round! Be positive, however, Holty will come back in July having rested for several weeks, and give us a flying startfor next season.[/quote]I read this week that Holt has committed the most fouls in the Prem. I would imagine that Hodgson would have seen him as a big risk where free-kicks need to be avoided at all times at this level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
First Wazzock 995 Posted May 16, 2012 These say it all really... Prajjwal Panday on Twitter: "No Grant Holt? Frankly I am bored of seeing the usual suspects in England Jersey. They are going to get booted out group stage."John Morrison on Twitter: "#HodgsonOut is trending! Hell fire #England fans are an unforgiving bunch!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted May 16, 2012 [quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Salopian"] I suspect that Holty lost out not only because he plays for little Norwich, but also because he''s 31. Welbeck, Sturridge and Oxlade-whatsit could develop in time for the world cup and beyond. I think that we shall struggle to score goals, and I think that our man might have caused or scored one or two. I have a horrible feeling that with Rooney out at first we may not even survive the preliminary round! Be positive, however, Holty will come back in July having rested for several weeks, and give us a flying startfor next season.[/quote]I read this week that Holt has committed the most fouls in the Prem. I would imagine that Hodgson would have seen him as a big risk where free-kicks need to be avoided at all times at this level. [/quote]The stats are:Holt 87 foulsFellaini 82Cahill (Tim) 71Cattermole 51 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
. 0 Posted May 16, 2012 Me too jake. More of the same old same old from yet another FA yes man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's Character Forming 1,203 Posted May 16, 2012 [quote user="Aggy"]. However, I think there is a difference between disagreeing with your country when it chooses to invade Iraq, for instance, and when it chooses to pick Andy Carroll to play up front over Grant Holt! .[/quote] Interesting comparison. Actually my reaction is the same. I think choosing Andy Carroll is the wrong choice but I''ll still want England to win - although the Euros won''t be as important as City games to me. Ditto with Iraq, bad decision but I backed our troops there to the hilt. The annoying thing is that Holt hasn''t been picked because of the image problem - basically every newspaper article about him for the past year has focused on the tyre fitter to Prem angle, and it would be ten times worse at the Euros. I wish Hodgson had the courage to pick the best 22, shame he''s started his tenure by bottling a big decision, it doesn''t bode well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7rew 0 Posted May 16, 2012 "To be perfectly honest, I''m not always convinced of this "old boys brigade" argument. The likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Ferdinand, Ashley Cole etc. have been playing champions league football consistently for the past 10 years. Who else has been? Do we really think they don''t care? If they put in performances where they didn''t care, they''d be out. "Have you watched any England Matches in the last 10 years?Because performances that show they don''t care is precisely what Lampard and Gerrard (in particular) have served up in every match.Anyway, why do we want to pass on experience of how to lose at the international level? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 941 Posted May 16, 2012 Looked like Lampard cared when he "scored" against the Germans. Looked like Gerrard has cared most matches to be fair, one of the better players (admittedly I haven''t watched a lot of recent friendlies - not because I''ve lost interest, just because I always seem to be otherwise engaged when they''re on), but Gerrard usually comes out as one of the better performers when I do watch.And as I say, do you genuinely think it''s that they don''t care, or that they''re just not good enough? Do you think others would have performed better, even if they did run around a bit more? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ruddygore 0 Posted May 16, 2012 We all know we''ll still watch it and hope for the best.We''re gluttons for punishment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 5,161 Posted May 16, 2012 I was holding off booking a holiday much to the annoyance of Her Indoors but she can now have her way and June it is.The only way i will now watch it is if i am in a bar and it is on TV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricky knight 0 Posted May 16, 2012 England have had a losing mentality for years, We need a clean sweep to get a winning mentality, new faces new ideas, much like PL Has done here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Brownstone 0 Posted May 16, 2012 Let''s be honest, when people are saying they don''t care, it''s a coping mechanism. They are distancing themselves now from the inevitable disappointment that will, judging my Hodgson''s squad, either arrive the group stage, or if we get lucky, the quarter finals.Just for the record, I don''t care either.Oh for the spirit of Euro 96..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pyro Pete 2,323 Posted May 16, 2012 If you haven''t watched today''s press conference by Roy Hodgson, please do: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18091314It''s rare on the eve of a major international tournament that the England manager goes out of his way to praise a Norwich City player and Norwich City Football Club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drurys testamonials V 15 0 Posted May 16, 2012 [quote user="CamelFish"]Also, no Michael Carrick, England''s most cultured midfielder. [/quote]You mean he''s like a pearl and lives in an oyster? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drurys testamonials V 15 0 Posted May 16, 2012 [quote user="Fromage Frais"]Would love to know how close Holt actually came to getting selected.What happens if Carroll gets injured +1 in the friendlies can we call anyone more up?[/quote]Close is never close enough. You''re picked or you''re not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 333 Posted May 16, 2012 Carroll I can just about live with, young and had 2 good games in the last month.But Wellbeck? who cant score in a man u side dominating most games? and defoe who is miles of starting for his club and is yet to score a goal of importance in international football - I have a vague recollection that he has not scored against a team ranked higher than 50(? maybe 85?) Holt has age against him but is better punt than these two - I mean sturridge has played fewer and on the wing and looks a million time better than defoe or wellbeck must be v frustrated and crouch again at least has a better strike rate for the experienced player.bizarre choices imo - frightening that we will start with one of carroll welbeck or defoe against france... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Firedawg 3 Posted May 16, 2012 Read the stats on Downing - 72 shots (inc 3 pens) 0 goals 0 assists, surely this cannot be true and if it is why oh why oh why ?More chance with Benno ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
. 0 Posted May 17, 2012 It''s like the school team.... it''s never based on who''s best but who''s face fits.I suspect Harry R would have been just as bad had he got the job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Essex Canary 0 Posted May 17, 2012 Good to see Ruddy in the squad, the only representative from outside the so-called ''big clubs.'' Not sure about Holt, whose goal-scoring record is good, but would he be able to make the step up to the international stage? We all probably had a ''Roy of the Rovers'' style fantasy about him taking England to the final but it''s not going to happen. I am very patriotic and want England to do well, but like most England fans I am not expecting too much (partly as a mechanism to avoid disappointment.) I also think Hodgson deserves a chance. He is under enormous pressure right from the start and the media and English public will be quick to criticize. Let''s wait and see what he can do with this rather limited pool of England players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blahblahblah 2 Posted May 17, 2012 Essex, where do you think these international players play league matches ? Some in la logs, some in Germany and France, but the highest concentration of internationals will be in the premiership. Holt has been scoring against top 6 sides, why wouldn''t he against France, Sweden, or Ukraine ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blahblahblah 2 Posted May 17, 2012 La logs, Damn you auto correct... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJP 79 Posted May 17, 2012 [quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]Carroll I can just about live with, young and had 2 good games in the last month. But Wellbeck? who cant score in a man u side dominating most games? and defoe who is miles of starting for his club and is yet to score a goal of importance in international football - I have a vague recollection that he has not scored against a team ranked higher than 50(? maybe 85?) Holt has age against him but is better punt than these two - I mean sturridge has played fewer and on the wing and looks a million time better than defoe or wellbeck must be v frustrated and crouch again at least has a better strike rate for the experienced player. bizarre choices imo - frightening that we will start with one of carroll welbeck or defoe against france...[/quote]Sturridge has never looked "a million times better". Infact in the second half of the season he''s probably looked worse than Welbeck. It is worth remembering that Welbeck has generally kept Hernandez and Berbatov out of the team and there''s obviously something to be said for that in terms of him playing in the same team as Rooney - which could be carried into the England setup. Sturridge hasn''t been a a nailed on starter for Chelsea. He was left on the bench for the 2 games with Barca and both the FA Cup semi-final and final. That might tell a story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blahblahblah 2 Posted May 17, 2012 La logs, Damn you auto correct... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricky knight 0 Posted May 17, 2012 Agree with Blah Holt plays against top defenders week in week out some international centre halves are not in the same league, this BIG jump to international football is an easy reason to leave someone out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 333 Posted May 17, 2012 sturridge has been playing on the flank but looked sound when he has played. Wellbeck may be keeping berbatov et al out but his performances have not been great and his goals return as a main striker is woeful, esp bearing in mind who he plays for. Its all about opinions - I just think sturridge carries more threat and is head and shoulders the better player. Wellbeck playing for Norwich would have got nowhere near the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites