Wilbraham & Whitbread released...

[Icecream Snow 761]

But given that we haven''t heard any reports of existing players signing, maybe they genuinely did leave all the contract talks till the end of the season.I did think his last "injury" was suspect. Just like Chris Martin last year.

[Bill 1,788]

Whitbread was not offered a new contract. Players who are wanted tend to get offered a contract - even though they may then reject that contract and sign for another club (Andy Marshall, Darren Kenton). Whitbread was not.The Sunderland ''story'' is bollox on stilts, as wiser heads on her have explained  - sadly the terminally dim will still believe any old twaddle simply because it has been posted on a website.It appears to be forgotten that we have just earned in excess of £70m this season. £70m. As much as I cannot fault either player for their attitude I can recognise that the club has little time for sentiment - and I don''t doubt their replacements have been lined up for some while now. With less money last summe we brought in Pilks, Morison, Vaughan, Bennett (E), Johnson and Ayala with Howson and Bennett (R) joining laterI don''t think those two senior players will be the only ones heading out and I''m fairly certain that if we can do that again (spaces in the squad allowing) we will be flying, so let''s stop the idiotic panicking.

[smooth 114]

I don''t see anything dodgy here, it is just football... we played a few centre backs this year, one has been released who was very capable, but I believe we are now looking to sign better players. As mentioned before I expect us to buy first team players and move our current first team players on to the subs bench.Whitbread was very good, in a defence that gave away a lot of goals... he has been here and achieved a lot, now he will get that next good pay cheque.Wilbraham, had an 18 month contract and has been here for some highs and I think he is good for the squad and has shown a great desire to play. He will get a club for one or two more years. But he has had a good thing to add to his football cv after being in middle leagues.We are looking for better players and I think we will get them... I think we have all concluded that we have a lot of areas to improve so to be honest I am more interested who is coming in than going out as we need to improve a leaky defence, a midfield that lacks bite and a striker force that has two striekrs with 10 goals each but a need for that third striker to be pressing for a starter position.Just love the summer, not too bothered by these. But again it is probably because those that leave are not going to hurt us too much in the long run.Howson, Pilky, ayala and Bennett are outfield players who have played well this season. If any of these left I think that would be a mistake.

[Brucie 0]

Can''t see the Sunderland story being right tbh. Like I said, I think he will go to Villa.

[Barclay Kid 0]

Disapointed to see both these players go! Whitbred has been our best CB this year (other than Russ Martin). There was interest for him from Liverpool but alike to Villa I don''t see him going anywhere without a manager at the moment! Barnett would have been the preferred choice of CB to leave for me, but hopefully we can make a good signing to replace Whitbred. Good luck to them both!

[Bill 1,788]

"Barnett would have been the preferred choice of CB to leave for me,"I''m fairly certain he will, but he has to be sold first.With Whitbread it was simply a case of not offering him another contract.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

But the perplexing thing is that Whitbread has been released and Ward, presumably, is to be offered another contract. I don''t want to slag off any Norwich player unless they truly deserve it, but I know who I would choose out of the two, and judging by most of the comments on here, I''m in the majority.On the positive side, if Ward is staying, we have a ready made scapegoat already for next year...And please don''t mention the Doc leaving again. There really was only one Ginger Pele. [:''(]

[Yellowbeagle 0]

Sad to see Whitbread go when he''s fit imo his our best centre back, but realistically he''s never going to be fit for a whole season the back four can never settle down and work as a unit over a long period of time, at times this season we would have really benefited from have a centreback pairing that was really settled along with the two full backs. Most teams that are strong defensively tend to have the same back four and that is surely the area we could do with improving in the most.

[Bill 1,788]

"and Ward, presumably, is to be offered another contract"I''m not sure if that follows. If it was to be the case then why has it not already been done ?He could only realistically be retained on sentiment, and that is one thing the club has not gone in for recently.

[crabbycanary 2]

There is bound to be more to come form the ''Players leaving'' file. It is just that with Zak and Aaron(top man for signing loads of autographs at half time on Sunday btw) were more straightforward decisions regarding contracts. I would bet that there will be other players, who are currently contracted to the Club, who will be sold over the course of the next few weeks. It doesn''t mean that the likes of Ward might still be here come August

I am of the mind that we will be getting a CH of good stock (Curtis Davies? Shown a lot of potential, hasn''t fulfilled it yet, this could be ''his'' Club possibly), perhaps someone who has played consistently at this level.

[whoareyou? 0]

Whitbread is just never fit enough to make a full contribution. We don''t know how often he was playing with an injury either.The club needs to bring in quality players  to replace the ones who have come this far with us if we want to keep improving and if he want to keep Lambert.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

The Pink Un article says:

First-team stars David Fox, Elliott Ward, Simeon Jackson and Adam Drury,

as well as youngsters Korey Smith, Tom Adeyemi and George Francomb, are

also reported to be out of contract this summer.

Why release Whitbread and Alby now, but wait for the others, if they are to be let go (apart from Drury, it would be downright rude to do anything before his testimonial)?

[Nuff Said 5,089]

[quote user="City1st"]"and Ward, presumably, is to be offered another contract"I''m not sure if that follows. If it was to be the case then why has it not already been done ?He could only realistically be retained on sentiment, and that is one thing the club has not gone in for recently.[/quote]And it does appear that Lambert sees something in him that the rest of us don''t. He did get the captain''s armband a couple of times didn''t he?

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="City1st"]"and Ward, presumably, is to be offered another contract"

I''m not sure if that follows. If it was to be the case then why has it not already been done ?

He could only realistically be retained on sentiment, and that is one thing the club has not gone in for recently.

[/quote]

And it does appear that Lambert sees something in him that the rest of us don''t. He did get the captain''s armband a couple of times didn''t he?
[/quote]

It might be that these were the players that were clear cut negiotation wise to be released and that the others are now being sat down with in the next few days. I wont be taking it as read that Ward, Lappin, Fox, Drury, Francomb etc will definetely be here next season until the club makes an announcement.

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]I heard a few weeks ago that Zak would never play for Norwich again following a half time bust up with Lambert at Fulham when we were 2-0 down.He was not happy with the formation being played and never appeared for the second half and has not been seen since.[/quote]Your source has been a busy bee recently!

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

Not surprised Wilbraham has been released but wish him well as he has done his best for us.Sad to see Whitbread go but given his injury record I''m not surprised.Hope Ayala  gets fit and raring to go for next season.

[Jacko 0]

Very sad to see Whitbread go. Good defender, good passer of the ball and a left footer which added good balance to the defence. Those attributes are ones which cannot be replaced easily or cheaply. Regardless of whether others are interested I can see the reasoning however why this has happened.

During Whitbread''s time at the club Norwich have played in 104 league matches. Whitbread has taken part in 46 of them. Based on that ratio you can expect to get around 17 games in a Premiership season out of him. Lambert clearly feels he can get better value for money elsewhere.

It would also be great if we could have a centre back pairing which play in the majority of matches and really strike up an understanding.

Good luck Zak. You will do well whether you end up next.

[andyc24_uk 58]

Being realistic -

Wilbraham - Not really a loss for us. Not premiership quality, he''s still got a couple of seasons left in him at Championship level.

Brindley - Never close to 1st team, not a loss really.

Ball - Been here 6 years, yet to break into the first team and unlikely to do so in the next 12 months.

Dawkin - Surprised at this, I thought he was supposed to be one of our hot young prospects? I do think we''ve developed a worrying trend of not looking after our youngsters recently - Other than the ''keepers, who was the last player to come through the youth ranks and establish himself? Chris Martin to some degree; other than that... Jason Shackell?

Whitbread - Sorry to say, but the first really major screw-up of Lambert''s reign as manager. Letting our best defender (and only one whs looked clearly up to Premiership standards so far) leave when all we have is one who''s clearly not up to scratch, one injury-prone, one inexperienced, and an out-of-position right-back as cover? Not a good move. I really hope PL has at least one, ideally two genuinely top-class centre-backs lined up to come in over the next few weeks - I mean experienced Premiership players, not some youth teamer with potential or someone who looked decent in League 2 - Yes it''s worked before, but only because we had experienced defenders to play alongside them.

From the others, we need Drury and Lappin to stay as we''re dreadfully short of LB cover; we need Francomb as we''re short of RB cover; and we need Fox and Jackson as they''re both important players to the squad. Would like to keep the rest of them as well, but I''d understand it more if they were allowed to move on.

[flecky76 0]

The problem we now face is that the club cannot afford to pay premier league proven players, in that I mean proven to hold their own for at least one season.

Unfortunately, that also includes our own players. These days when a contract is up, it isn''t a simple case of extending the contract. It''s a whole separate signing on fee etc that is the same as buying a new player. If rumours are true Sunderland have offered him far more than we have, this kinda underlines my point.

This puts the club in a tricky position. We may be debt free in 12 months time and at that point be in a position to begin to pay more wages. It therefore goes without saying that next season is vital for us in order to survive again so that the season after we can begin to move forward and eventually afford the premier proven players.

[Pudd 1]

I think Whitbread showed us all which side his bread was buttered on when he limped off in a match (Bolton perhaps) when this appeared to be against Lambert''s wishes.

Looking back, I suspect he was probably thinking "I''m looking for a big deal, an injury now won''t help me".

Who knows, but I won''t lose any sleep over him leaving!

[Lamb Chopped? 0]

[quote user="drurys testamonials mark 15"][quote user="TIL 1010"]I heard a few weeks ago that Zak would never play for Norwich again following a half time bust up with Lambert at Fulham when we were 2-0 down.He was not happy with the formation being played and never appeared for the second half and has not been seen since.[/quote]Your source has been a busy bee recently![/quote]Indeed she has [Y]

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="flecky76"]The problem we now face is that the club cannot afford to pay premier league proven players, in that I mean proven to hold their own for at least one season.

Unfortunately, that also includes our own players. These days when a contract is up, it isn''t a simple case of extending the contract. It''s a whole separate signing on fee etc that is the same as buying a new player. If rumours are true Sunderland have offered him far more than we have, this kinda underlines my point.

This puts the club in a tricky position. We may be debt free in 12 months time and at that point be in a position to begin to pay more wages. It therefore goes without saying that next season is vital for us in order to survive again so that the season after we can begin to move forward and eventually afford the premier proven players.[/quote]"in that I mean proven to hold their own for at least one season."so good that their own club don''t want themI think the plan is to build for the future not cobble together other clubs castoffsAs to the Sunderland twaddle a three year old should be able to see why it''s twaddle

ps how does a player get to be "premier league proven" ?

[Bury Yellow 2]

Surely we all must reserve our judgement on the ins and outs until kick off for the new season. I just don''t get this knee jerk reaction to what is the first of a few announcements.

After all that Lambo has achieved, the comments from some on this thread are astounding.

Whitbread is not the messiah ..... Lambo, of course is!!!

[hogesar 9,618]

I will point out here that i actually think Ward is a very good defender. I do feel he needs some help and by that i mean some pace either side of him. But as a central defender i think he''s good in the air, reads the game fairly well and his distribution isn''t too bad either.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

[quote user="hogesar"]I will point out here that i actually think Ward is a very good defender. I do feel he needs some help and by that i mean some pace either side of him. But as a central defender i think he''s good in the air, reads the game fairly well and his distribution isn''t too bad either.

[/quote]

 

I would agree with that in as much  to say that I don''t really think he is anywhere near as bad as some posters on here are making him out to be.

 

For the attributes you mention, it is worth having him around for another season, even though he may not be first choice.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]I will point out here that i actually think Ward is a very good defender. I do feel he needs some help and by that i mean some pace either side of him. But as a central defender i think he''s good in the air, reads the game fairly well and his distribution isn''t too bad either.[/quote]Ssssshhhh Hogesar. Ward is ''clearly not up to scratch'' whilst Whitbread was ''by far our best defender'' and this is Lambert''s ''first big mistake''. The Pink ''Un has spoken. Also the ''vast majority'' of fans know Whitbread is better than Ward. because the ''vast majority'' of football fans don''t talk complete bollocks most of the time do they?

[a1canary 0]

Come on Shack, I think it''s a fair observation and viewpoint that Whitbread is a more accomplished centre back than Ward. You don''t have to agree but many who have seen both in matches over the season would reach that view.

Ward has had some immense games, but he has had some awful ones, and we know this game is about consistency. He lacks composure, something that both Ayala and Whitbread do have, particularly Ayala. Our defence was demonstrably less hair''em scar''em when they were playing together.

Another point re Ward not being released - and i don''t know if it has been made already - but we don''t know precisely when his contract ends. It could easily be that he has a contract to the end of June, just like it turned out Bradley Johnson had at Leeds. In that case it was reported everywhere that he was coming but the club kept us waiting what seemed and eternity to announce it - once he had officially finished at Elland Road.

My money is on Ward leaving. As for Whitbread, we''ll find out soon enough if his head was turned by a better offer.

[GJP 79]

Well Ward is obviously a much better defender than many on here give him credit for because he has been such a big part of Lambert''s plans in the last 2 seasons.

 

He''s not without his faults but unfortunately for him he''s one of these players where some fans will decide to notice his errors more than they would the errors of another player and will use anything they can to attack him with.

 

The best example of this was the home game to Wolves. Ward turned in a really immense performance in that game yet all some people wanted to do was pick on 2 or 3 misplaced passes he made in the first half - turning a blind eye to everything else he had done so well.

 

Look at the Liverpool game. Yes, he f*cked up a couple of situations with Suarez but nobody really wants to balance that out by saying he was up against a £20m forward who was bang on his game and gets the better of many top drawer defenders. It''s ok for Ryan Bennett to get outjumped by Tevez for a headed goal but it''s not ok for Ward to be nutmegged by Suarez.

 

I''m not sure if Ward will be here next season or not because we always have to look to improve where we can but there''s certainly not the gulf in class or ability between him and the other defenders at the club (as well as Whitbread) that some are suggesting.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="a1canary"]

Come on Shack, I think it''s a fair observation and viewpoint that Whitbread is a more accomplished centre back than Ward. You don''t have to agree but many who have seen both in matches over the season would reach that view.

Ward has had some immense games, but he has had some awful ones, and we know this game is about consistency. He lacks composure, something that both Ayala and Whitbread do have, particularly Ayala. Our defence was demonstrably less hair''em scar''em when they were playing together.

Another point re Ward not being released - and i don''t know if it has been made already - but we don''t know precisely when his contract ends. It could easily be that he has a contract to the end of June, just like it turned out Bradley Johnson had at Leeds. In that case it was reported everywhere that he was coming but the club kept us waiting what seemed and eternity to announce it - once he had officially finished at Elland Road.

My money is on Ward leaving. As for Whitbread, we''ll find out soon enough if his head was turned by a better offer.

[/quote]

Of course Whitbread being better than Ward is a fair and accurate observation, but despite his obvious knowledge of the game one has to take into account that Shack is very much the liberal and the nature of liberals is to be generous to a fault - if Shack was manager of NCFC, the likes of Doherty, Hughes and Crofts would probably still be at the club and we''d be playing in the Third Division.

[a1canary 0]

I think people need to chill out - the simple reality is, if we want to progress from this season (and if we don''t we''ll go down) we have to raise the quality of our players. Each year, the bar rises and unfortunately, some players will come in under that bar. After we won League 1, we lost the Doc, Spillane, McNamee, Darel Russell... players who had done well but who ultimately didn''t make the grade for the next step. Same again after promo from the Championship - Nelson, Smith, C Martin...

Now after survival in the Premiership, the bar rises again. Obviously the contractual situations do influence what happens to a degree, but i think it''s reasonable to suggest that Ward is one of those who comes under the bar. Crofts might be another. Lappin another (not sure of their contract situations). We don''t know exactly because it''s Lambert''s call, but we can have a guess. Next season is going to be really tough if we don''t improve our squad again. I don''t think there will be any sides as bad as either of Bolton, Wolves or Blackburn next year. Those sides were worth 11 points to us this year. I fully expect Southampton to survive for a start. They are a carbon copy of ourselves in terms of the way they have built their team and come through the leagues.