England door open still?

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

If D.Welbeck cannot overcome his ankle injury which today is looking more likely then I guess Sturidge gets called up as he is the only striker on the standby list. Will a new striker need to be added to the 5 player standby list in this case and if so maybe Holt could be considered by Hodgeson as the 6th best england striker?

 

 

[Morisons Prozac 0]

[quote user="Son Ova Gunn"]

If D.Welbeck cannot overcome his ankle injury which today is looking more likely then I guess Sturidge gets called up as he is the only striker on the standby list. Will a new striker need to be added to the 5 player standby list in this case and if so maybe Holt could be considered by Hodgeson as the 6th best england striker?

 

 

[/quote]Don''t forget about the world-class talents of Frazer Campbell -.-

[Supermarket Prodigy 0]

I''m still baffled my Roy''s insistence on picking so many Liverpool players. What''s up with that?!

[morty 0]

Well common sense says that he should have been on the reserve list at the very least, so who knows lol!

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

Woy would pick the likes of Connor Wickham before Holty [:@]

[I am a Banana 0]

[quote user="Shaker Maker"]Woy would pick the likes of Connor Wickham before Holty [:@]
[/quote]

He will be around for the next 10-12 years. Holt maybe for this Euros.

 

Got to look ahead.

[Zak Van Burger 0]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]

[quote user="Shaker Maker"]Woy would pick the likes of Connor Wickham before Holty [:@][/quote]

He will be around for the next 10-12 years. Holt maybe for this Euros.

 

Got to look ahead.

[/quote]Looking ahead is accepting that you are not picking your best available team at any moment.Other countries often field their best teams in tournaments, usually compiled of players who are in form. I could stomach "well I only had two games warmup prior to the tournament so I selected the best English players available to me based upon their form over the season" as an excuse for failure far better than the usual cr@p we''ll be spoon fed.

[I am a Banana 0]

England need players who either offer experiance or are young and more for the future. Holt is neither of them. No exp at national level and isn''t young.

Wickham is young.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]

England need players who either offer experiance or are young and more for the future. Holt is neither of them. No exp at national level and isn''t young.

Wickham is young.

[/quote]Oh dear.Holt''s been in the game a long time and has an awful lot of experience, now admittedly it''s only been this season at the top flight, but you can''t dismiss everything he''s picked up over the years just because of this.The fact that he''s had a very good season at this level should show his quality, and frankly playing against Prem defenders each week is better than half the tosh that will be fielded in the Euro''s for teams like Poland, Ukraine and Denmark...Wickham might be young, but he''s also toss - at least Holt has proven his ability at this level...

[Zak Van Burger 0]

England needs to field its best eleven at any time to be in with a chance of winning anything. This is a simple strategy which has worked well time and again for other countries.

[basil brush 0]

The door will never open for Holt. Even if he of scored 25 goals this season, I cannot see the England set-up ever going for him. Crouch is the obvious casualty in the squad that has been picked and can feel more hard done by than Holt, given his solid international record.

If Holt was doing this when he was 26/27 in the PL, different story, but he''s 31 and should concentrate on his club career, which will hopefully still be with us.

[Brendo 0]

I''d imagine Frazier Campbell, Darren Bent, and Bobby Zamora would be all picked over Holty. Hodgson is a good manager and I really like him, but a few of his picks are dubious to say the least. Having said that - there''s never really gonna be a squad we all agree on (unless we win something!). I just hope we all get behind the team and hopefully we might achieve something. Downing over Adam Johnson, Carroll over Holt, and Glen Johnson over Micah Richards are silly imo, but we shall see eh?

[Firedawg 3]

I really don''t buy into this ''pick young uns for the future'' b*llocks cause that''s what it is ! You have to play your best eleven now even more so in international games because tournaments are so far apart so much can happen between. Look at out ''Golden generation'' what a misnomer that was and how many chances did and still are getting to win f*ck all ! And Connor Wickham over Holt please, Banana - more like a Plum.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Holt missed his chance when he wasn''t called up for the friendly vs Netherlands.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

There are only two players in that squad whose selections were inexcusable, IMO, Johnson and F***ing Downing. Actually scratch that, you could make an argument for Glenn Johnson as a wing-back or a defensive right-midfielder, but Downing!!!???

What the f**k has Downing done to earn his place? 0 assists and 0 goals this season. His crossing this season has been average at best and is usually poor, his pace (or lack of) makes him unsuited as a international winger. In the past Downing substituted his (relative) lack of pace with accurate crossing, decent dribbling technique and the ability to shoot on target consistently, all of these skills have abandoned him this season and he has never come close to recapturing any of the things that once made him a threat.

Even at his best Downing was a bland player, who could do a job but not carry a team with ability or even contribute to a good team and he is probably going to be the starting left midfielder for England at the Euros. The French must be S***ing themselves!  

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Gareth"]There are only two players in that squad whose selections were inexcusable, IMO, Johnson and F***ing Downing. Actually scratch that, you could make an argument for Glenn Johnson as a wing-back or a defensive right-midfielder, but Downing!!!???

What the f**k has Downing done to earn his place? 0 assists and 0 goals this season. His crossing this season has been average at best and is usually poor, his pace (or lack of) makes him unsuited as a international winger. In the past Downing substituted his (relative) lack of pace with accurate crossing, decent dribbling technique and the ability to shoot on target consistently, all of these skills have abandoned him this season and he has never come close to recapturing any of the things that once made him a threat.

Even at his best Downing was a bland player, who could do a job but not carry a team with ability or even contribute to a good team and he is probably going to be the starting left midfielder for England at the Euros. The French must be S***ing themselves!  

[/quote]

The reason for Downing is fairly simple to be honest - he fits in with Hodgson''s style more than any other left footed player. Hodgson teams don''t usually have quick, tricky wingers but are based on a solid midfield 4, with a player in ''the hole'' just in front and a lone striker. It''s boring, but has worked well for him.

 

His choices for left footed wingers were Downing or Johnson - it''s not like Johnson has had a good season and he never tracks back like the hard working Downing. Personally I think Milner will play on the left of midfield ahead of Downing as this fits the Hodgson model. England aren''t going to go to the Euros and play with flair and panache, but we just don''t have the players to go that way - better to be solid rather than getting killed on the counter like England did in the World Cup.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]His choices for left footed wingers were Downing or Johnson - it''s not like Johnson has had a good season and he never tracks back like the hard working Downing.[/quote]What?Since when did Johnson not have a good season? He''s contributed extremely well to a side packed with multi-million pound internationals, has scored a number of goals and provided some great crosses and teamplay to boot.Downing has done jack all this season and nothing more needs to really be said here.As for proper left footed wingers, choices are indeed limited, but I''d rather play someone who''s good and right footed, than someone who''s $hite and left footed. Pilks should have been picked over Downing!

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]His choices for left footed wingers were Downing or Johnson - it''s not like Johnson has had a good season and he never tracks back like the hard working Downing.[/quote]
What?

Since when did Johnson not have a good season? He''s contributed extremely well to a side packed with multi-million pound internationals, has scored a number of goals and provided some great crosses and teamplay to boot.

Downing has done jack all this season and nothing more needs to really be said here.

As for proper left footed wingers, choices are indeed limited, but I''d rather play someone who''s good and right footed, than someone who''s $hite and left footed.

Pilks should have been picked over Downing!
[/quote]

Played 90 mins only a handful of times this season (nearly always on the right hand side in a postion Hodgson won''t have), never tracks back and nearly all his goals were the 4 or 5 in the routs against smaller teams. In the 6 or 7 games I saw this season whenever Johnson came on (as a late sub) he was the one all the Man City attacks broke down around as he gave the ball away or went on pointless runs. I would imagine he''ll be moved on in the summer, unless Man City need to keep their English player quota up.

 

I''m not saying Downing is a great player (he has obviously had a poor season) but Hodgson is going for square pegs in square holes - not trying to fit players into positions they don''t fit - isn''t this what many England fans have been crying out for?

 

 

 

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

The reason for Downing is fairly simple to be honest - he fits in with Hodgson''s style more than any other left footed player. Hodgson teams don''t usually have quick, tricky wingers but are based on a solid midfield 4, with a player in ''the hole'' just in front and a lone striker. It''s boring, but has worked well for him.

 

His choices for left footed wingers were Downing or Johnson - it''s not like Johnson has had a good season and he never tracks back like the hard working Downing. Personally I think Milner will play on the left of midfield ahead of Downing as this fits the Hodgson model. England aren''t going to go to the Euros and play with flair and panache, but we just don''t have the players to go that way - better to be solid rather than getting killed on the counter like England did in the World Cup.

[/quote]

Yeah, Downing is (sadly) the only left footed player who qualifies for England who fits Hodgson''s system. It''s just the idea of someone being such a complete failure (well, more so than usual)  making the England squad leaves a sour taste in my mouth. 

Surman could fit in Hodgson''s system, but Hodgson hasn''t really had an opportunity to scout lesser known players, he''s having to rely a lot on players he already knows a bit about.      

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

I''m not saying Downing is a great player (he has obviously had a poor season) but Hodgson is going for square pegs in square holes - not trying to fit players into positions they don''t fit - isn''t this what many England fans have been crying out for?

[/quote]

I was of the impression that Hodgson liked playing inverted wide midfielders (Chris Brunt was often deployed on the right when he was at West Brom) is that a wrong impression?

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Played 90 mins only a handful of times this season[/quote]And?The guy has to compete with the likes of Silva and Nasri for a place, it''s not like being here where players such as Pilks and Bennett are virtually unchallenged for their roles.[quote]nearly always on the right hand side in a postion Hodgson won''t have, never tracks back and nearly all his goals were the 4 or 5 in the routs against smaller teams.[/quote]Again and?Just because he''s been used more on the right doesn''t mean he isn''t good enough on the left. It again comes down to competition, and Silva is also going to be incredibly hard to dislodge from the left hand side.As for who his goals were against - so what?Most of Crouch''s international goals have been against dross like Jamaica, Andorra and Macedonia, yet his scoring record for England is always proudly touted in regards to his selection.In relation to scoring in ''routs'', in a large percentage of league games this season Man City have scored 3 or more goals (16 games in the matches Johnson alone featured in), so shall we dismiss the goals of players like Aguero because they were in ''routs'' against the likes of us and Blackburn?Also, Hucks never tracked back either, neither do a lot of world class wingers, this shouldn''t have a major impact on selection.[quote]In the 6 or 7 games I saw this season whenever Johnson came on (as a late sub) he was the one all the Man City attacks broke down around as he gave the ball away or went on pointless runs. I would imagine he''ll be moved on in the summer, unless Man City need to keep their English player quota up.[/quote]That''s right, dismiss what he''s done in the games where he''s played for much longer on the grounds that he wasn''t anything special in the games where he got 10-15 minutes...[quote]I''m not saying Downing is a great player[/quote]Thank god for that[quote]he has obviously had a poor season but Hodgson is going for square pegs in square holes - not trying to fit players into positions they don''t fit - isn''t this what many England fans have been crying out for?[/quote]2 key points here:A) Doesn''t matter if you''re a square peg in a square hole if you play like $hite, my best mate is a left footed winger - shall we call him up?B) Johnson on the left isn''t a round peg in a square hole at all, he''s more than capable of playing there, as are a number of other options, all of whom had far better seasons than Downing did.What England fans are crying out for, is the manager to select form players who will do their jobs well and with pride, instead of the same old dross that''s underperformed for years and often can''t play together.

[Zak Van Burger 0]

[quote user="Gareth"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

The reason for Downing is fairly simple to be honest - he fits in with Hodgson''s style more than any other left footed player. Hodgson teams don''t usually have quick, tricky wingers but are based on a solid midfield 4, with a player in ''the hole'' just in front and a lone striker. It''s boring, but has worked well for him.

 

His choices for left footed wingers were Downing or Johnson - it''s not like Johnson has had a good season and he never tracks back like the hard working Downing. Personally I think Milner will play on the left of midfield ahead of Downing as this fits the Hodgson model. England aren''t going to go to the Euros and play with flair and panache, but we just don''t have the players to go that way - better to be solid rather than getting killed on the counter like England did in the World Cup.

[/quote]

Yeah, Downing is (sadly) the only left footed player who qualifies for England who fits Hodgson''s system. It''s just the idea of someone being such a complete failure (well, more so than usual)  making the England squad leaves a sour taste in my mouth. 

Surman could fit in Hodgson''s system, but Hodgson hasn''t really had an opportunity to scout lesser known players, he''s having to rely a lot on players he already knows a bit about.      

[/quote]

There''s a young chap goes by the name of Anthony Pilkington could do the job but it''ll probably be another year or more likely a move to another club before the England setup notice what a classy footballer Pilks is.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="A Certain Poster"][quote user="Gareth"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

The reason for Downing is fairly simple to be honest - he fits in with Hodgson''s style more than any other left footed player. Hodgson teams don''t usually have quick, tricky wingers but are based on a solid midfield 4, with a player in ''the hole'' just in front and a lone striker. It''s boring, but has worked well for him.

 

His choices for left footed wingers were Downing or Johnson - it''s not like Johnson has had a good season and he never tracks back like the hard working Downing. Personally I think Milner will play on the left of midfield ahead of Downing as this fits the Hodgson model. England aren''t going to go to the Euros and play with flair and panache, but we just don''t have the players to go that way - better to be solid rather than getting killed on the counter like England did in the World Cup.

[/quote]

Yeah, Downing is (sadly) the only left footed player who qualifies for England who fits Hodgson''s system. It''s just the idea of someone being such a complete failure (well, more so than usual)  making the England squad leaves a sour taste in my mouth. 

Surman could fit in Hodgson''s system, but Hodgson hasn''t really had an opportunity to scout lesser known players, he''s having to rely a lot on players he already knows a bit about.      

[/quote]

There''s a young chap goes by the name of Anthony Pilkington could do the job but it''ll probably be another year or more likely a move to another club before the England setup notice what a classy footballer Pilks is.[/quote]

Firstly, Pilkington is not naturally left footed, he''s naturally right footed but he''s ''taught'' himself to be two footed.

Secondly, whilst Pilkington is more defensively responsible than Johnson, I question whether he is as defensively responsible as Downing

Thirdly, as I said above, Hodgson hasn''t had time to really scout lesser known players, I feel if he had seen more of Pilks he would have been tempted to take him, I''m sure Hodgson would like him because of his similarities to Chris Brunt.

However your right, Norwich have probably the two most viable English left midfielders in the premier league right now. Both would be in my side ahead of both Johnson and Downing.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]
2 key points here:

A) Doesn''t matter if you''re a square peg in a square hole if you play like $hite, my best mate is a left footed winger - shall we call him up?
B) Johnson on the left isn''t a round peg in a square hole at all, he''s more than capable of playing there, as are a number of other options, all of whom had far better seasons than Downing did.

What England fans are crying out for, is the manager to select form players who will do their jobs well and with pride, instead of the same old dross that''s underperformed for years and often can''t play together.
[/quote]

I can see the benefits of both players and imagine it was a close decision - I do think the fact that Downing is better at defensive work and is a more positionally and tactically aware player swung it in his favour. That and the fact that Johnson''s strongest position is playing high on the right and cutting in, where as Hodgson was looking for a player to sit deeper on the left.

 

Maybe Downing won''t play a minute and the Euro''s and this whole discussion will be moot - but I feel Johnson is a little too similar to Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain (who you could really argue has taken Johnson''s place).

[Redders Right Foot 22]

[quote user="Supermarket Prodigy"]I''m still baffled my Roy''s insistence on picking so many Liverpool players. What''s up with that?![/quote]

agreed 100% -- How on earth a midfielder with 0 assists and 0 goals gets a call up is beyond me!

[Unhinged Canary 375]

Stewart Downing - Poor mans Lee Croft...... [:)]