Could you see Norwich having a black manager within the next 20 years?

[Yobocop 1,094]

[quote user="The Pinkun Village Idiot"][quote user="Give Peas a Chance "][quote user="The Pinkun Role Model"][quote user="Give Peas a Chance "]Yes - in what other sense could it be taken? If it was supposed to be a joke then it was an epic fail my friend.

In answer to your question no, don''t take this as an insult but why hasn''t your carer turned your computer off yet?[/quote]If I said.''Pop next door to see how old Mrs Smith is''.What would your answer be?[/quote]

I would question your mental state[/quote]Could be two answersA) 81B) very well

Moral of the story if somebody says something you may read it one way, but it actually means another.Good night.[/quote]

I think we all know the REAL moral of the story, but thanks all the same!

Night chap

[Google Bot 3,255]

Peas,

You think i would stay up till 2am to have a wind up thats not even enjoyable or funny?

I''m passionate about this, you still seem unable to accept that or understand it. Because i''m pro black it''s suddenly a wind-up or i''m being silly? That''s actually pretty offensive.

I cannot help how narrow minded people perceive what i''ve written, luckily there''s those out there who understood it, even then they''re shot down as being racists because they are proud to be british. They actually have an understanding and are not afraid to speak their true mind.

Sadly you are the problem matey, not part of the solution as you may think you are.

I''ll let you run away and hide now under your excuses, it''s bed time.

[Muddy funster 0]

[quote user="Skijumptoes"]Peas, You think i would stay up till 2am to have a wind up thats not even enjoyable or funny? I''m passionate about this, you still seem unable to accept that or understand it. Because i''m pro black it''s suddenly a wind-up or i''m being silly? That''s actually pretty offensive. I cannot help how narrow minded people perceive what i''ve written, luckily there''s those out there who understood it, even then they''re shot down as being racists because they are proud to be british. They actually have an understanding and are not afraid to speak their true mind. Sadly you are the problem matey, not part of the solution as you may think you are. I''ll let you run away and hide now under your excuses, it''s bed time.[/quote]

 

Oh my....I am narrow minded because I have a problem with your OP, as many others do, but you and London Canary are right.  I think you have a problem.  You are wrapped up in your own self importance and feel you are never wrong because it''s you.  Truly unbelievable.  The internet really does bring them all out doesn''t it.

I''m incredulous, I really am.

[N city till I die 0]

Can someone tell me wtf the problem is with the first post???

[Yobocop 1,094]

Ok London, I can see you''re not getting it for whatever reason, I''ve broke it down for you...skijumptoes in my eyes hasn''t been racist however has been a bit ignorant. So SJT''s first post:

One of those was Chris Powell, which got me thinking - that would be Norwich''s first Black manager, right? -

nothing wrong with this, fair question.

I don''t know what perception the club has outside of East Anglia - I would imagine that we''re seen as a middle class bunch of racist imbreds? -

Firstly, we are being tarnished with the same brush as the whole of East Anglia here, which you can''t really do, there is a lot of difference between all the counties, so what, who cares if that''s what they think of us? Don''t see what it has to be with the next POTENTIAL norwich manager?

Mark Bright doesn''t seem too keen on us and tried tarnishing us with the racist brush, and obviously we had the supporter giving Vaughan some grief because of his skin when he signed (Which made headlines). -

again totally irrelevant

However, there seems to be an increase in successful black managers in recent years, and as we''re a club looking to get managers on the way up, the chances are increasing. -

why are black manager''s being pigeon holed? I don''t get it. Again not necessarily racist as you could say there has been a recent abundance of successful scottish managers....

Personally don''t have an issue with it... However, i could understand the difficulties involved. So with that in mind i just can''t see it happening for a LONG time... if ever!! -

This was the real issue for me, ''difficulties involved'' what difficulties? and why can''t he see it happening for a LONG time...if ever!!

Wondered what everyone elses thoughts are, especially those who live in the City. (I''m out in the sticks). -

Don''t understand why people who live in Norwich''s opinion should be of any more substance than anyone elses?

---------

Overall SJT has had plenty of opportunities to retract his original post but it hasn''t happened.

[Google Bot 3,255]

Peas, you''re just arguing for the sake of arguing now - there is NOTHING racist about my post, and you''ve failed to even remotely highlight anything racist in there.

The fact that i''ve mentioned the word ''black'' has caused you to wet your bed pants and go into a rage presuming that i was being racist, it''s a ridiculous reaction!

I quote: "This was the real issue for me, ''difficulties involved'' what difficulties? and why can''t he see it happening for a LONG time...if ever!!"

I''ve made it clear that i can''t see it happening because the chances, right now, are pretty slim - I''ve explained numerous times that it''s an issue of probability. Can i see it happening within 20 years? No.

When i say difficulties involved, i''m referring to the lack of successful black managers that make it through to management, but on top of that the questions that would arise from the manager would be based on the perception of the local area (hence why i listed the Mark Bright issue), what it would be like for to move their kids from a south london school, to a norfolk village school (for example) - A whole number of issues, none of which are racist!!!

If you really want to sort this out, then please go ahead and tell me what you''ve presumed that i meant as there''s clearly something going on in your head when you read that line that i can''t see!!

"Don''t understand why people who live in Norwich''s opinion should be of any more substance than anyone elses? "

Is that racist then? ....Don''t get why you''ve highlighted this in an attempt to explain where i''ve been a racist. But hey..

If you want me to explain why i made that point: I believe, and can accept, that i have a very blinkered view beyond what my life is like here in a small village.

I cannot ascertain what it''s like to live in the city and therefore know what appeal it has for a black man to move his family from a larger, more cosmopolitan area (South london being a prime example), taking a high pressure job, putting himself in the local public eye, re-schooling his kids, knowing that he could be at the mercy of locals were results/performances to go badly.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Borderline racist but certainly massively ignorant. Why would you think a black person, or someone of any other race would have mixed feelings about moving to Norwich? If Chris Samba and Roberto Carlos go to Dagestan why wouldn''t Chris Powell move from South London?

 

Didn''t Paul Ince manage MK Dons, that''s East Anglia (I think).

 

I don''t know if you were being slow or deliberately antagonistic but the thread is dumb, dumb beyond belief. If a manager of any race was deemed to be good enough for the job they would be appointed - I''m sure if Lambert left and the job was offered to Powell, Ince or Houghton the fact to job was in ''the sticks'' and their race wouldn''t be something they took into consideration. Now just grow up and move on. I''m not going to say anything else about the matter so don''t try to engage me in debate.

[Google Bot 3,255]

Make your mind up, you completely misread what i''ve been posting, then you ask a question, and then choose to run away saying that you don''t want to be engaged in debate?

Adding to that you have the nerve to call me childish!! :)

Call me what you like, if asking the question makes me a borderline racist - then so be it! I have no guilty conscience whatsoever and stand by what i''ve asked.

[Ruddygore 0]

Brilliant thread and whilst I have enjoyed the many posts from people displaying their anti-racist credentials I would applaud skijumptoes for firstly bringing the subject up and how he has conducted himself following.

Firstly, there is nothing wrong with the OP, what you have all missed is the point about WHY a black manager would choose to live and work in a) A predominantly white area, and B) A predominantly white fan based club and C) A predominantly white profession.

Skijumptoes has at no point said that black managers should not succeed or that Norfolk is a racist area however you''ve all taken your own bait.

Congratulations.

And by the way, every human being on the planet is racist, if you don''t acknowledge that you are the problem.

Enjoy.

[Canarino 0]

When we were recently living in Norfolk and I was working there, I have to say that I did from time to time come across some rather old-fashioned (let''s say) views, although nothing that was said was ever said with any deliberate ill-intent. I don''t recall hearing the same sort of comments in Liverpool where I worked for a number of years - and that was a long time ago.

Of course, that''s hardly a scientific survey, but it does reflect my own experience.

[Devils Advocate. 0]

Yesterday, I read an article about an ITN reporter who was sent to cover the recent Downing Street discussion on Racism within Football. He used the term "Coloured" and has been disciplined for his actions.

 Being of a certain age and someone who has not been educated in the use of acceptable language( if there is such a thing)when talking about this subject, even I feel uneasy when faced with seeing the term "Black".

 I have a strange vision of an announcement being made that Paul Lamberts replacement is, for arguments sake Chris Powell. The National press are so stunned that they search for comment on the novelty of his appointment and come across this thread and make a huge issue of it as it seems racist.

 Remember the outcry 3 years ago, when Jimmy Floyd Hasslebaink was touted as Bryan Gunns replacement ? Many  users of this forum objected, claiming that his lack of managerial experience went against him, but were they being truly honest ?

 The reason why Paul Ince and John Barnes are not managers is the fact that, despite being given the chance, they are unsuccesful and nothing to do with their skin colour.

 It is nigh on impossible to even debate this issue, without upsetting someone and causing offence and my gut instinct is that the thread should be pulled .

 I reme

[morty 0]

[quote user="London Canary"]Yes Morty I have been there loads of times for games and to see family there,

I just don''t see what is wrong with the the first post. In what way is it racist? I jus''t don''t get it.[/quote]Well whilst I will admit that there isn''t the immigrant population of say, London, we hardly stand and stare and point if we see a brown face in the fine city.And if you can''t see anything wrong with the post, then I''m afraid no amount of explaining is going to make you understand.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Ruddygore"]Brilliant thread and whilst I have enjoyed the many posts from people displaying their anti-racist credentials I would applaud skijumptoes for firstly bringing the subject up and how he has conducted himself following.

Firstly, there is nothing wrong with the OP, what you have all missed is the point about WHY a black manager would choose to live and work in a) A predominantly white area, and B) A predominantly white fan based club and C) A predominantly white profession.

Skijumptoes has at no point said that black managers should not succeed or that Norfolk is a racist area however you''ve all taken your own bait.

Congratulations.

And by the way, every human being on the planet is racist, if you don''t acknowledge that you are the problem.

Enjoy.[/quote]So you don''t think that using the broad brush statement that Norfolk is populated by middle class (I''ll ignore the inbred) racists, is at the very least, stunningly inaccurate?Yes, it is widely accepted that people will, on the whole, show preference to their own race, but this is about how you express your views, and teh world has come a long way in the last 30 or 40 years. Obviously not the OP''s though.

[Ruddygore 0]

Well Morty, I don''t see skijumptoes saying that we ARE a bunch of middle class inbred racists but that he imagines that people can PERCEIVE that we could be.

To any minority that is something for them to consider.

I agree that we have come a long way in the last 30 or 40 years but I see skijumptoes as coming just a bit further than some of us too.

Take your time.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Ruddygore"]Well Morty, I don''t see skijumptoes saying that we ARE a bunch of middle class inbred racists but that he imagines that people can PERCEIVE that we could be.

To any minority that is something for them to consider.

I agree that we have come a long way in the last 30 or 40 years but I see skijumptoes as coming just a bit further than some of us too.

Take your time.[/quote]Yes you''re clearly completely right, he is the Martin Luther King of the messageboard.[:|]

[Ruddygore 0]

I''m sorry Morty, but your sarcasm proves that you have missed the point and I''m afraid it''s an epic fail.

Never mind.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Ruddygore"]I''m sorry Morty, but your sarcasm proves that you have missed the point and I''m afraid it''s an epic fail.

Never mind.[/quote]Well explaining, in simple terms, why the opening post is :-1. Borderline racist.2. Extremely stupid and insensitive3. So misguided it wouldn''t be out of place in the 1970''s4. Deliberately provocativeclearly hasn''t worked for you. Its frankly embarrassing, its like admitting that Norfolk is actually populated by middle class racists, and its perfectly fine to have a good old laugh about it. We have enough of an image problem with the rest of the country as it is, I can put up with the farmer / bumpkin / love your sister crap, but racists? Sorry, for me, no.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Skijumptoes"]....... a black man to move his family from a larger, more cosmopolitan area (South london being a prime example), taking a high pressure job, putting himself in the local public eye, re-schooling his kids, knowing that he could be at the mercy of locals were results/performances to go badly.[/quote]

Was it a concern for Nigel Worthington (N.Ireland), Bryan Gunn (Scotland) ?Why would it be any different for Chris Powell (England) ?............. because, as you said earlier, he would not be with his own kind ?

[The Young One 0]

[quote user="Ruddygore"]Well Morty, I don''t see skijumptoes saying that we ARE a bunch of middle class inbred racists but that he imagines that people can PERCEIVE that we could be.

To any minority that is something for them to consider.

I agree that we have come a long way in the last 30 or 40 years but I see skijumptoes as coming just a bit further than some of us too.

Take your time.[/quote]

Some common sense on this thread at last, I was going to comment as this was getting silly, we are all scared to air our views from the fearof the politicially correct getting the wrong end of the stick and being on overkill.

[morty 0]

[quote user="The Young One"][quote user="Ruddygore"]Well Morty, I don''t see skijumptoes saying that we ARE a bunch of middle class inbred racists but that he imagines that people can PERCEIVE that we could be.

To any minority that is something for them to consider.

I agree that we have come a long way in the last 30 or 40 years but I see skijumptoes as coming just a bit further than some of us too.

Take your time.[/quote]

Some common sense on this thread at last, I was going to comment as this was getting silly, we are all scared to air our views from the fearof the politicially correct getting the wrong end of the stick and being on overkill.[/quote]Why is it common sense?Do you think that anyone outside of Norfolk reading this will now perceive that we''re all closet racists, just a little bit more now? And how does anyone make the assumption that this is a perception?Sorry, but I travel a lot, and on saying I''m from Norfolk, not once have I had said to me "Oh Norfolk eh, they''re all a bit racist there, aren''t they?"Oh and using a phrase like "PC" to excuse someone''s stupidity or attempt to be inflammatory doesn''t wash, I''m afraid.

[Ruddygore 0]

Morty, I think people including yourself have chosen to interpret the OP AND everything skijumpoes has said following in the way that they wanted but not necessarily as it was written.

Now I could suspect skijumptoes as being very clever but as someone who has direct experience and planning for this very topic I can put my hand on my heart and say that so far, I do not suspect skijumptoes motives or his intent.

It is a brilliant OP and a great thread!

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Ruddygore"]I''m sorry Morty, but your sarcasm proves that you have missed the point and I''m afraid it''s an epic fail.

Never mind.[/quote]Well explaining, in simple terms, why the opening post is :-1. Borderline racist.2. Extremely stupid and insensitive3. So misguided it wouldn''t be out of place in the 1970''s4. Deliberately provocativeclearly hasn''t worked for you. Its frankly embarrassing, its like admitting that Norfolk is actually populated by middle class racists, and its perfectly fine to have a good old laugh about it. We have enough of an image problem with the rest of the country as it is, I can put up with the farmer / bumpkin / love your sister crap, but racists? Sorry, for me, no.[/quote]Haven''t you just half proved Skip''s question? That we have a negative imagine?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Ruddygore"]Morty, I think people including yourself have chosen to interpret the OP AND everything skijumpoes has said following in the way that they wanted but not necessarily as it was written.

Now I could suspect skijumptoes as being very clever but as someone who has direct experience and planning for this very topic I can put my hand on my heart and say that so far, I do not suspect skijumptoes motives or his intent.

It is a brilliant OP and a great thread![/quote]Okay, for a start, I have only been back here a short time, and have personally never had cross words with ski, so you can rule me out of the long standing grudge group.Oh I don''t think for a minute that he''s some evil puppetmaster that has cleverly worded to stir debate, more misguided idiot, if I was pushed for an opinion.The acid test here would be to go somewhere, say a pub that has a mix of races, and have this debate in person with them. Its one thing typing things if you have strong views, but a whole other game expressing them in person.

[Google Bot 3,255]

Morty, that''s highly hypocritical as you have put me in this ''rural norfolk'' hole of yours early on.

Recent evidence suggests that Norfolk is still PERCEIVED as a bit of a back water, backwards place that doesn''t take to outsiders too well.

And that''s how you''ve painted me - well done for completely missing the point!

[morty 0]

[quote user="The Pinkun Role Model"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Ruddygore"]I''m sorry Morty, but your sarcasm proves that you have missed the point and I''m afraid it''s an epic fail.

Never mind.[/quote]Well explaining, in simple terms, why the opening post is :-1. Borderline racist.2. Extremely stupid and insensitive3. So misguided it wouldn''t be out of place in the 1970''s4. Deliberately provocativeclearly hasn''t worked for you. Its frankly embarrassing, its like admitting that Norfolk is actually populated by middle class racists, and its perfectly fine to have a good old laugh about it. We have enough of an image problem with the rest of the country as it is, I can put up with the farmer / bumpkin / love your sister crap, but racists? Sorry, for me, no.[/quote]Haven''t you just half proved Skip''s question? That we have a negative imagine? [/quote]No, I really haven''t. You can throw a negative spin on any part of the country if you like. I am willing to put up with the rural image. Just not closet racists. Which, apart from anything else, is stunningly inaccurate. Some peoples views on this forum actually make me inwardly cringe.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Skijumptoes"]Morty, that''s highly hypocritical as you have put me in this ''rural norfolk'' hole of yours early on.

Recent evidence suggests that Norfolk is still PERCEIVED as a bit of a back water, backwards place that doesn''t take to outsiders too well.

And that''s how you''ve painted me - well done for completely missing the point![/quote]Ah right.Link me to this evidence please, if you will.

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

I agree with Ruddygore about the OP motives, although a little more explanation or phrasing could of avoided 7 pages of posturing. To answer the orginal question posed, I dont think we will see a black manager in the next 20 years, but thats nothing to do with NCFC or the city, as far as I am aware we have no problem attracting black players to the club so managers should be no different. The reason why I dont think we will have a black manager in 20 years is simply a numbers issue..

 

In 2007, about a quarter of all players were black, but only two out of 92 league clubs had black managers. In 2011, there are still only two black managers in all four leagues: Paul Ince, manager of Notts County, and Chris Powell, of Charlton Athletic... - figures from Guardian

 

 

[zemas tendon 0]

I Wish we were back 20/30 years ago, it was safe to leave my back door open(No Pun Intended)... And This Site wouldnt be here, still go and collect the Pinkun on a Sat. Now Will You Lot Shut Up!!

[The Young One 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="The Young One"][quote user="Ruddygore"]Well Morty, I don''t see skijumptoes saying that we ARE a bunch of middle class inbred racists but that he imagines that people can PERCEIVE that we could be.

To any minority that is something for them to consider.

I agree that we have come a long way in the last 30 or 40 years but I see skijumptoes as coming just a bit further than some of us too.

Take your time.[/quote]

Some common sense on this thread at last, I was going to comment as this was getting silly, we are all scared to air our views from the fearof the politicially correct getting the wrong end of the stick and being on overkill.[/quote]Why is it common sense?Do you think that anyone outside of Norfolk reading this will now perceive that we''re all closet racists, just a little bit more now? And how does anyone make the assumption that this is a perception?Sorry, but I travel a lot, and on saying I''m from Norfolk, not once have I had said to me "Oh Norfolk eh, they''re all a bit racist there, aren''t they?"Oh and using a phrase like "PC" to excuse someone''s stupidity or attempt to be inflammatory doesn''t wash, I''m afraid.[/quote]

MortyIn all honesty I didn''t find anything wrong with the original post, I,m just amazed by all the backlash, the only way outsiders reading this thread would perceive us to be racists is by reading the whole thread i.e making the original post to be something that it isn''t. I also travel a lot and Norfolk always has been considered a place to not like outsiders it''s quite deep routed perhaps, you don''t see/hear it, I,ve been around a lot more than you.The "PC" prigade sometimes gets on my tits for being well over the top at times, although needed at times becuase some behaviour is un-acceptable but my view is this post isn''t one but does identify the issue''s and they are correct.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="The Pinkun Role Model"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Ruddygore"]I''m sorry Morty, but your sarcasm proves that you have missed the point and I''m afraid it''s an epic fail.

Never mind.[/quote]Well explaining, in simple terms, why the opening post is :-1. Borderline racist.2. Extremely stupid and insensitive3. So misguided it wouldn''t be out of place in the 1970''s4. Deliberately provocativeclearly hasn''t worked for you. Its frankly embarrassing, its like admitting that Norfolk is actually populated by middle class racists, and its perfectly fine to have a good old laugh about it. We have enough of an image problem with the rest of the country as it is, I can put up with the farmer / bumpkin / love your sister crap, but racists? Sorry, for me, no.[/quote]Haven''t you just half proved Skip''s question? That we have a negative imagine? [/quote]No, I really haven''t. You can throw a negative spin on any part of the country if you like. I am willing to put up with the rural image. Just not closet racists. Which, apart from anything else, is stunningly inaccurate. Some peoples views on this forum actually make me inwardly cringe.[/quote]Therefore when this was asked.."I don''t know what perception the club has outside of East Anglia - I

would imagine that we''re seen as a middle class bunch of racist imbreds?"

Why didn''t you just give your opinion on whether you thought it was true or not, rather than get your knickers in a twist?