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First Wizard

For Gawds sake, just go Worthy!.

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Worthy has lost it, official.

I see he''s now blaming the players, a desperate act of a desperate man.

I''ve noticed more and more ''reasonable'' posters on here, coming round to this theory, and about time too.

Don''t use the old excuse of what he achieved last year, thats now history. We''re talking here and now, and right now, he''s not up to it, and never will be!.

He has shown that he does not have the ability to learn from his past mistakes, Fleming Holt, and Edworthy are living proof of this inability.

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Must admit I think he has made some bad calls but surely he deserves some a chance to take us back up, if it does tits up next year then the decision is made to move on. Just out of interest who would u want to replace him?

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Ah, see, that''s your mistake.......Wiz doesn''t really KNOW who he wants to replace him, he just wants rid of Worthy.  A few months ago, it was the Board he wanted rid of........

Wiz, you know I usually respect your opinions and have had some good debates with you in the past, even when we have disagreed, but change the record mate, eh?

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100% with you Wizzard. Although i think we are the only 2 people who will really admit it lol. I have been saying it for months that he should go or should have gone. If he had we might have had a fighting chance of staying up. Its about time people forgot the past and look to the present and the future,but you try telling them that. Its like banging your head against a brick wall. I shall not remember Worthy for geting us promoted,i shall remember him for not being up to the job and not getting the best out of the players & getting us relegated.

GO WORTHY GO!

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It''s fairly obvious that for some members of the board, whatever Worthington were to say or do, it would be wrong. It seems to be wrong that he plays down his public statements and saves the rollockings for the dressing room or training ground. It''s also wrong that he comes out with the stronger statements in public.

We don''t all know what the reasons for some of the decisions are but - obviously, nothing short of him resigning will be right - and then see where Norwich end up next season.

 

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[quote]Worthy has lost it, official. I see he''s now blaming the players, a desperate act of a desperate man. I''ve noticed more and more ''reasonable'' posters on here, coming round to this theory, and about ...[/quote]

Whilst I agree that Worthington has made mistakes, especially in regard to players clearly not up to it, (Holt, Fleming, Edworthy) it would appear that Worthington can do no right anymore with some fans...and this is unfair.

After a game, if Worthington says "We worked hard, the players gave me everything" then he gets slaughtered for saying the same stuff.

After a game, if Worthingtons says "We didn''t do enough, we were poor, players aren''t giving the club enough" then he gets slaughtered for criticising the players.

I really cannot stress enough the massive jump we''ve made in a relatively short space of time.

Sacking Worthington is really not the answer...he should be given another season at the very least...he deserves another whole season. To call for his head now is madness.

Charlton didn''t sack Curbishley, Everton didn''t sack Moyes when they had an awful season, Bolton didn''t sack Allardyce...

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Don''t forget that Wiz can see into the future and must know what will happen next season if Worthy stays, is it really going to be that bad? 

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I''m afraid the worthy out mob have no answer to who will replace worthy if he goes , all they can see is as far as there nose, supporting norwich for the last couple of years has been a breath of fresh air considering what we had to put up with prior to that , the man deserves a break and another crack at it if he fails next time then yes maybe he should go but lets have some real names to replace him and stop running away from the issue , its easy to say lets get rid but with who? you might end up in a worse postion IE HAMILTON just be careful what you wish for.

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[quote]Whilst I agree that Worthington has made mistakes, especially in regard to players clearly not up to it, (Holt, Fleming, Edworthy) it would appear that Worthington can do no right anymore with some fa...[/quote]

That was Bolton. That was Charlton. That was Everton. All went "down" (I''m well aware Everton didn''t actually go down) fighting, learning from their errors. We have barely made a whimper. Worst of all, Worthington has rarely learnt from his mistakes. It''s obvious that Man Utd will see Worthy play the same team that played and lost to Arsenal, Bolton, etc etc

We owe Worthington nothing - he has had his opportunity to prove himself. A full season of Premiership football and failed miserably. He''s made basic, fundamental mistakes and failed to correct them for future games. He''s bought in players - at a cost - and barely used them. He''s failed to find his first 11, and played potentially key players in strange places. He''s played failing formations for too long and then didn''t alter them when necessary. His in-game substitutions are baffeling - why when we are one-nil down doesn''t he switch to 4-3-3 and go for broke? Why did he fail to address the situation of a striker before the transfer window?

On and on the questions can be listed, and few can answer them. Yes, Charlton didn''t sack Curbishley, Everton didn''t sack Moyes when they had an awful season and Bolton didn''t sack Allardyce but all of these managers showed progress at the end of the season. Can we honestly say the same about Worthington?

No.

Yes, Worthington has got us here but this is his living and if in a normal job, Worthington had reached the limits of his talents, and his job required more, that person would be removed without battering an eyelid. Loyalty is all well and good in football, but in the end it doesn''t win us points, and while we will always be grateful for what Worthy''s done, if this club is to have ambition and drive to succeed in the Premiership Worthington is not the man to bring it.

WORTHINGTON OUT!!!

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Its ok for you young ones out there.You will have plenty of optunity to see City in the Prem again.Some of us oldie posters might not have another 9 years left to wait again!

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[quote]Its ok for you young ones out there.You will have plenty of optunity to see City in the Prem again.Some of us oldie posters might not have another 9 years left to wait again![/quote]

well if it were not for worthy you may well have had to wait another 9 years , be thankful you got 1 year in.

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Andrew nickerson seems to think Worthy''s made massive investments in the team, by previous Norwich City standards that may be true, but by current Premiership standards we''ve spent a small pittance.

Both Palace and West Brom have invested heavily whereas Worthy has had to make do with what handouts he could scrape from the board, the one convincing investment coming far too late in the season.

We started this season with the weakest squad in the league, that''s why we''ve been favorites to go down, we happpened to have a better season than everyone else last year, we did not have better players, and for the championship win the credit must go to the manager, (and Carl Moore for paying for Darren Huckerby, the one player who is better than what the rest had previously).

Wave goodbye to the manager and you wave goodbye to the Club''s stability, and any hope of a swift Premiership return.

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I tend to agree with you in certain respects,but promotion,relegation and possibly promotion again is about as stable as the Titanic!

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No, the Titanic went down and stayed there, that would be Sheffield Wednesday or Bradford.

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[quote]Andrew nickerson seems to think Worthy''s made massive investments in the team, by previous Norwich City standards that may be true, but by current Premiership standards we''ve spent a small pittance. ...[/quote]

Well said...

Some of you have no clue how tough it is playing and managing in the Premiership...

Just think of it like this:

Norwich City have no outfield players that would get into a top 10 Premiership club...

The other 9 teams have at least one outfield player who get into a top 10 Premiership club...

In the First Division, having a sprinkling of decent players and a great work ethic can win you the league, but in the Premiership you need quality...and we do not have enough.

Is that Worthington''s fault?

To expand on the point, there are probably at least 5 players from each of the bottom 5 clubs that we would welcome into our squad...However, how many of our players would Crystal Palace, West Brom or Southampton, Portsmouth want in theirs? Ashton possibly? Green? But that''s pretty much it.

Nigel Worthington is not a miracle worker, and to achieve Premiership stability will take time.

Those calling for Worthington to go have no clue of how a Football Club works, and no club ever achieved anything by letting their manager go when they have finally managed to build into a position where they can push on.

Charlton, Bolton and Everton to name a few are reaping the benefits of stable management...Alex Ferguson anyone?

Just take a look at Portsmouth: let a decent manager go at your peril...

For those who want a new manager: Who realistically could we attract who is proven at Premiership level? 

You can''t think of anyone can you...?

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[quote]I''m afraid the worthy out mob have no answer to who will replace worthy if he goes , all they can see is as far as there nose, supporting norwich for the last couple of years has been a breath of fres...[/quote]

Supply me with the official current vacancy lists of who''s available BEB and Templeton, like the directors have access to, and I''ll name him.

Damn it, I forgot that like me, you''re not directors are you?.

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All I can say is that I would have firmly backed Worthy until quite recently, but he''s making it increasingly hard for me to do so. And I find myself agreeing with the comments of other fans who are fed up with him.

I can''t see us winning another game this season and it''s plain to see that the confidence and morale of the squad is completely shot. We''re going down with a whimper and I don''t think Worthy will be able to turn it around next season. 

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Just to add a couple of points to this.  In order to get a better manager than Worthy, we will have to be looking to find a manager who has experience of getting a side promoted from the Championship, as well as having had the experience of keeping a club in the Premier League.  I can''t think of anyone (who we could realistically attract) that has that experience.

I understand the points about why we should get rid of Worthy, I am bemused by lots of his decisions this year but unless we can get that manager with proven credentials then it is big risk to remove a manager who knows how to navigate his way out of the Championship.

 

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[quote]Well said... Some of you have no clue how tough it is playing and managing in the Premiership... Just think of it like this: Norwich City have no outfield players that would get into a top 10 Premi...[/quote]

Well said Campbell,

Thank goodness for a bit of constructive thinking in this Forum that has now descended into categories of :-

"Sack him", "Drop him ! " 

 "Let''s have yet another a poll on who I hate..",  

" Call them names if they don''t agree with me.." etc etc

"If my thread disappears I''ll drag it up again under a different title" 

Again well done mate !

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The Worthington supporters are probably all young , thats why they think hes doing well , while those of us who have been around a long time know just how badly he is doing. This season has been nothing short of a disgrace.

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I still cannot believe that after NINE YEARS of trying to get back into the Premeirship, people expect it take us only ONE YEAR to become an established Premier league side.

I agree that Worthy has made some mistakes this season, but when we have the smallest, cheapest and most limited squad in the division how can you blame the manager?

This message board is like a bunch of kids blaming everyone from Gary Holt to Craig Fleming to Nigel Worthington for the fact that we''re not quite good enough to be a Premiership team yet.

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[quote]Andrew nickerson seems to think Worthy''s made massive investments in the team, by previous Norwich City standards that may be true, but by current Premiership standards we''ve spent a small pittance. ...[/quote]

Errr... I don''t believe I ever referred to the budget Worthy has had at his disposal in any of my reasonings. Far from it. Personally, I think the buys Worthington has made were good on paper, and I would have bought them in his position.

What I am critical of is how Worthington has used these purchases. Why did he buy Safri only not to use him, especially now when our midfield can''t thread a pass together, let alone a good four or five. Why has he bought Jonson - a player who scored a stack for his previous club as striker - only to play him as a right winger? Why did he buy a central defender in the remaining days of the transfer window, only to play him up front for a while, and then drop him from the squad entirely? Why does he continue to omit the Danish national right back and captain when our defence is as poor as it gets?

These are not difficult questions - it doesn''t take a footballing Einstein to come up with them. So why aren''t the answers forthcoming?

If we started this season with the weakest squad, why did we win the first division? We had at the start of this season the smallest squad, but definatly not the weakest. One of, maybe, but not the weakest.

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Great post, Andrew, and I agree with everything you say, it actually amazes me how blind some people on here are to Worthington''s mistakes this season, and they still stick up for him. The fact is, he has been tactically inept - he thinks picking the same team week in week out will work, seems to have personal vendettas against his new players and others as favourites, mostly his old ''championship boys'', and is rubbish with the media (how many other managers spend their entire post match interview talking about fantastic work rate, great commitment, and constantly bigging up the opposition?) Either he sorts it out or he gets out.

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[quote]Well said... Some of you have no clue how tough it is playing and managing in the Premiership... Just think of it like this: Norwich City have no outfield players that would get into a top 10 Premi...[/quote]

You don''t actually read my arguments, do you?

We all have a good idea how tough it is being here. We''re here too, remember.

You all make excuses as if what Worthy has done this year is acceptable. I mean, how do you know we "don''t have any talent in the squad" - we haven''t seen half of them used on a regular basis in the way they should be played!

Further, if we haven''t got any talent, why were we - up until December - quite able to get draws out of difficult games?

We have a decent squad that is very small but very versatile, what we don''t have is a manager who is willing to try this squad out in all the different possibilities to find the strongest team. We have a boss who sticks stubbornly to his old, past it styles and mannerisms. Holt and Fleming are proving to be liabilities, yet they stay. Stuart is too old to play on the wing, yet he stays.

To say that Palace, Southampton and WBA have players that would fit into other Premiership teams and we don''t is also first circumstantial because it does depend gravely on the individual manager''s tastes, and also entirely wrong. Green, Huckerby, Ashton, Francis and Bentley would be welcomed to most other teams. Also what''s to say that Helveg or Safri might not have done a good job for the club? Or maybe Jonson up front could have matched his more famous, English namesake Andy at Palace? We''ll never know, why because Worthington has either ignored or misused these players in the most blatent of manners.

Nigel Worthington is no miracle worker, and nor have I ever said that instant survival was ever an expectation. All I - and others I believe - expect is to see some fight, some statement of intention that we are Norwich City and we want to be here as much as everyone else. I have not seen that now for some time, and I believe this inspirational fight has got to be instilled in the team by the manager.

Now, here''s the crunch, if you could read it and commit to memory so we don''t get any more of these accusations that I "expect too much" or "don''t appreciate the difficult circumstances due to finances/manner of Premiership" because I don''t and do respectivly, I''d be most appreciative;  

NEVER EVER EVER EVER DID I EXPECT TO STAY UP. DREAMED, YES, EXPECTED NO. AS LONG AS WE GAVE IT OUR BEST SHOT, LEARNT ABOUT LIFE IN THE TOP FLIGHT AND PROVED THAT WE ARE CAPABLE OF BEING HERE, I WOULDN''T HAVE MINDED. BUT WE HAVE FAILED TO THAT, AND FAILED NOT DUE TO A LACK OF FINANCES AS SUGGESTED PREVIOUSLY BUT DUE TO A CONSIDERABLE NUMBER OF BASIC MISTAKES MADE BY WORTHINGTON - MISTAKES THAT BODE POORLY FOR WORTHINGTON''S FUTURE AS MANAGER.

In effect, it ain''t what he did it''s the way that he did it.

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[quote]I still cannot believe that after NINE YEARS of trying to get back into the Premeirship, people expect it take us only ONE YEAR to become an established Premier league side. I agree that Worthy h...[/quote]

Worthy has the smallest, cheapest and most limited squad, yet fails to use the squad to it''s capacity. That''s just one of the reasons I think he needs to go.

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Spot on , we have better players sitting on the bench or not in the squad than Worthy sends out week in week out , is he picking a team thats best for Norwich or keeping his favourites happy. Take Helveg Danish captain , does anybody on here really believe that if Edworthy or Fleming were Danish  they would be playing international football ??? of course they wouldnt, Helveg is head and shoulders better than them , but all hes had is a couple of games at right back and a few out of position in midfield. Bad management ? yes imo .

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[quote]Spot on , we have better players sitting on the bench or not in the squad than Worthy sends out week in week out , is he picking a team thats best for Norwich or keeping his favourites happy. Take Hel...[/quote]

The Helveg situation is stupid, he is class and should of been playing ALL season! Why was he dropped after the first 2 games? There really is no reason why Worthington had to re-introduce Edworthy, who has had an absolute string of stinking performances, but has he ever been dropped with the exception of injury?

I tell you, we are not only the laughing stock of the EPL, but in Denmark too - they think it''s absolutely ridiculous over there that our club cannot find a place in the team for the Danish International captian!! That just about sums up our season.

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[quote]The Helveg situation is stupid, he is class and should of been playing ALL season! Why was he dropped after the first 2 games? There really is no reason why Worthington had to re-introduce Edworthy, w...[/quote]

Why was Helveg dropped after the first two games? If you were AT those two games you''d know how abysmal he was - every pass went to the other side, he was too slow and constantly caught in possesion.

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