Bit annoyed/concerned at Fox's absence from the team of late

[Jim Smith 2,314]

I really hope we are not thinking we can let him go now we have Howson. personally I would like to see them both playing together in our remaining games with Fox sitting as the holding player and Howson pushing forward and getting in the box. I really feel we are a better side with Fox playing and the stats also seem to show we are much more successful.

Midfield for Liverpool please:

Bennett, Howson, Fox, Pilks

[Morisons Prozac 0]

I agree fully, Fox IMO is one of our best and most influential players. Lambert will make a giant blunder if he releases him, but I trust him to make the correct decision.

[smooth 114]

I have said that my views on Fox would be controversial when the question of his current contract situation was posted about a few weeks ago.I think he is replaceable, I would expect him to be offered a contract but I would expect him to be a fringe player because we need to move upwards and I look at players improving each and every year. This year We have seen what all our midfielders have had who were here last season. Surman has added a goal scoring threat, Crofts has not had the influence maybe he would hope for, Fox has had a tidy season, his deadball play has been average, he has struggled in the role that he has to play with faster, stronger, attacking midfielders coming through him.Yes he can stroke the ball about in front of our back four, but I believe we need that stronger tackling, more imposing player in our midfield starting positions.Fox''s rise is as dramatic as many of our players, League 1 to Premiership. But improvement is key, one of our posts this evening discusses how many of our players could be considered ''average''. Meaning those on the bench, are they difference makers? probably not. We improved our squad in the summer so that we had depth and ability across the board with few standout players. In January we improved two areas with young very promising players who will improve greatly and already look more than comfortable in this divsion. We have other players where I see that improving is going to be less likely and hence they may be playing at the highest level they can and that is no problem that is is fantastic in fact. But it does happen. For a second season in the premiership I would be surprised to see Fox starting as many games and for our central midfield area not be improved.I am not concerned by his absence as I would rather see a midfield four and that means a little more bite, at the moment Johnson holds that position, but I acknowledge he has been a tidy player for us.It is harsh criticism that I raise against a player who came to us for a reported 25k and league 1 experience, he has played in the premiership but for us to stay up next season we need to go again and improve. We need those who have the ability to improve year on year as those who come in as transfers and we need to improve our starting 11.I am not concerned at the rotation policy that Lambert has done, he has given all players chance this year and I am certain he knows which have improved during this amazing season and which can improve next. He also knows whom will become more of a fringe player and those that may now need first team football and that may mean a move away. Harsh but a fact of a club that has a dramatic rise, I for one hope we can reamin in this league next year and to do so improvements have to made.

[Jacko 0]

Fox is the most underrated player at the club. He is effectively a deep lying playmaker and one of the few players in our team who is very comfortable to receive the ball under pressure and set us moving with a quick, accurate pass. Spurs was admittedly a notable exception but the majority of times he doesn''t play we seem to really struggle to impose any attacking impetus on a game. I think the statistics as to how we perform with and without Fox in the side also provide a compelling case for his inclusion. Not offering him a new deal would be a monumental error in my opinion.

[Canaries Utd 0]

Fox doesn''t run with the ball, he passes a lot of his ''high percentage pass rate'' sideways and he DOESN''T score, we will find someone to replace him i would imagine. The formation was wrong today, and the players didn''t seem up for it.

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

We missed him sorely today.

[yellow lorry 0]

I would expect Fox to start against Liverpool as Lambert is bound to make changes after today''s result. Especially when you read his post-match comments.

If you go to www.holtamania.com there is a lot of good analysis on why Fox needs to start every game. To replace him, or find another, better player for his role would be very expensive, and other areas of the squad need to be first priority with new signings.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Canaries Utd"]Fox doesn''t run with the ball, he passes a lot of his ''high percentage pass rate'' sideways and he DOESN''T score, we will find someone to replace him i would imagine.

The formation was wrong today, and the players didn''t seem up for it.
[/quote]

 

Disagree.  Thought we were very bright in the first half.   Defence got caught out, thats all - Surman/Drury had poor communication - for the goal.    Other than that we were good in first half.    Once the second went in it was always going to be tough, Blackburn fought hard to keep us at bay. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Canaries Utd 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="Canaries Utd"]Fox doesn''t run with the ball, he passes a lot of his ''high percentage pass rate'' sideways and he DOESN''T score, we will find someone to replace him i would imagine. The formation was wrong today, and the players didn''t seem up for it.[/quote]

 

Disagree.  Thought we were very bright in the first half.   Defence got caught out, thats all - Surman/Drury had poor communication - for the goal.    Other than that we were good in first half.    Once the second went in it was always going to be tough, Blackburn fought hard to keep us at bay. 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Lambert would seem to agree with what i witnessed today [;)]

[Willmeister 35]

I agree that I think we look a much better, balanced side with Fox in the team. I thought we were good in the first half, maybe copied Blackburn''s lump it quickly forward game a few too many times. Other than that we controlled it comfortably but just fell asleep for their first goal, which couldn''t have come at a better time for them, just before half-time. The second half they score that rocket, then put 11 men behind the ball and we didn''t have the quality in the final third to ever really test them, thought Wilbraham was very willing when he came on and was our biggest threat in the second half. I also think Howson''s talent is wasted at the bottom of the diamond, he offers too much going forward to have him that deep, that''s why we need Fox in the side.For the Liverpool match I think we need to go one up front. I think Holty seems to play much better when we play him up front on his own, my team would be:RuddyMartin Whitbread (if fit) Bennett Drury/Naughton            Fox HowsonBennett    Hoolahan     PilkingtonHolt

[Norma Stick 0]

Agree that our poor form of late (Spurs game aside) coincides with Fox''s absence from the starting XI.

 

Not necessarily the most gifted player, not the best tackler, but he can put his foot on the ball, look up, pick a pass and retain possession.

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

Whilst I''m a big fan of Fox do you not think that due to the number of midfielders that we have (and Lambert''s policy to give each of them a rest spell) that we always pine for the midfield players who are absent when we lose.

 

This has been done when Pilkington, Hoolahan and Surman have had spells away from first team action.

[smooth 114]

Our run from February through to the Everton game included Fox in many of our first 11 and I would say that was our worse run this season. From the Everton game we played with a 4-4-2 and the young group that came in finally got our midfield working and our performances were better by a long, long way.Everton, Tottenham and Man City were performances that warranted premiership football... I am afraid I do think Fox, and more improtantly that central midfield position is a position that is not costly to fill, many other clubs go to Europe to find a robust central midfielder and find them at a good price. For me the midfield needs to have two wingers as supply to our forwards is notably poorer when we do not have wingers and then a creative midfielder and a robust midfielder.Fox does compose a back four but Howson drops deep to collect the ball, Pilky and EB are comfortable coming deeper.I have mentioned Stuart Holden, who in this league has been amazing and has great leadership qualities. But he may be out of our price range, if so Europe is a place to find a Tiote style midfielder. I am looking forward to this key position being looked at in the summer, as said Fox''s rise has been incredible, but now we need a player who can hold down that second midfield spot alongside Howson. I feel Fox is a fringe first teamer now after this season.

[yellow lorry 0]

I respect your opinion, Smooth, and yes if we got a better quality midfielder or two in you may be correct in saying Fox would be more of a fringe player.

What I would disagree with is that this season in my opinion the team has generally been better with Fox in it. You mention the Everton game as being where the midfield finally got working, yet Fox did actually start this game.

The game at Sunderland away was a disappointing 3-0 loss, Fox didn''t play at all, yet was recalled for the next two, both wins, Bolton (h) and Swansea (a). This was the start of the February to April run you mention as a bad one. I''m not sure - we lost 1-0 to Stoke and Newcastle away - no great disgrace in either case. We outplayed Man U (with Fox on the pitch the full 90) so I''m not sure it was that bad a run or that different to the rest of the season really.

[smooth 114]

yellow lorry, I take your point. The ''bad run'' is not appropriate for some of the games based on result. I would say at Newcastle and at Stoke we were far from looking like a team that would come away with anything. It was our performances in this period that was bad (with the exception Man U), with Wolves and Fulham away our worst with a terrible system that allowed so much passing in front of our back four, it gave our strikers very little quality to work with.I think your point is very valid, there was little disgrace in some of those games of which Fox started in regard to the score line, I just think if you look at the performance, and he was not alone, it wasn''t good enough to warrant any points etc. Personally I believe as we have said from the beginning of the season we want to morph Fox and Johnson into a total midfielder. We now go into this window with an opportunity to look, we need a midfielder who can be that robust midfielder and help out defenmsively I do think Fox is weak in that category at the level we now find ourselves.It will be an interesting window as I think we have all highlighted areas that need improvement.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Smooth

I think we both agree that in an ideal world we will this summer find a "defensive midfielder" who can both keep possession and provide a screen in front of the defence) which might render this debate irrelevant but for now we have to work with what we have and I still maintain that more often than not that should mean Fox starts because he is the one midfielder that makes us tick, helps us to keep the ball and alleviate pressure on our defence. Ok yes he played at newcastle and Fulham but we actually played quite well in the former and at fulham my understanding was that our problems were more down to the three man central defence we played in the first half.

For me, our really bad performances in recent months have been Sunderland, Stoke and Blackburn (not as bad as the first two but still not great), all games where he started on the bench. I really hope, therefore, that he is in the team on Saturday and also that we do offer him a new contract. Ok if we get our targets this summer he may not be first choice next season as it seems clear Lambo wants to play Howson and A.N. Other in midfield but certainly still a very, very useful player to have in the squad.