Chris Martin

["""""""""Ben """"""""""" 0]

Obviously Chris Martin and Barcelona are sensitive topics. Maybe I shouldn''t comment in the future ...

IMO being a striker is about scoring goals and Chris Martin didn''t do that for us in the Championship (4 league goals in total) and we had to rely on goals from Jackson in the end to push us over the line.

[Gingerpele 0]

Lol.

Sensitive topics? Your having a laugh right?

[Gingerpele 0]

Just because your incapable of anything other than very basic statements (being a striker is about scoring goals for example), doesn''t mean other people are overreacting to a ''sensitive subject'' If you really think that, well then there is no hope for you really.

You don''t have to write paragraphs, but you show little ability to actually discuss a topic properly. If you take notice, most people, other than you and the small selection of other baseless simple minded opinions in this thread, actually have multiple reasons for their opinion. On both sides.

Rather than turn to silly accusations, try getting involved. If not, don''t bother posting. What is the point of ''he hardly set the world alight'' and ''being a striker is about scoring goals''? You just ignore everything else everyone has said, its very ignorant.

Go back and see the arguments for why Martin still had a big impact last season, and if you still think being a striker is just about scoring goals, you best go ask Lambert, the man who got us 2nd place last season, why he insisted in playing Martin until he got injured last season...

["""""""""Ben """"""""""" 0]

" just about scoring goals, you best go ask Lambert, the man who got us 2nd place last season, why he insisted in playing Martin until he got injured last season... "

Because Jackson was out of form and NOT scoring goals. And Jackson was starting games ahead of Martin earlier on in the season until he stopped scoring goals. He didn''t really have a lot of options did he? Apart from playing one up top that didn''t really work. Hence why in the summer we went and bought two new strikers ...

[Indy_Bones 441]

Let''s try to add a bit of extra perspective here:Wilfried Zaha - 6 league goals from 41 gamesGlenn Murray - 6 league goals from 37 gamesJermaine Easter - 5 league goals from 33 gamesSean Scannell - 4 league goals from 37 gamesChris Martin - 7 league goals from 30 gamesSo he''s outperformed every other striker at Palace, both on total league goals and based on goals per game, and this includes the much vaunted Zaha who apparently was worth 5 million plus in January (I admit he''s moves between winger and striker).So in regards to ''setting the Championship alight'', maybe he hasn''t as such, but he has been the strongest performer from a goals/striker perspective, in what was an underperforming and often pretty crappy Palace side.

[Gingerpele 0]

I don''t remember Jackson starting many games ahead of Martin early season (and he only scored 3 or 4 before he started scoring for fun). And he didn''t try the 1 man up front last season.

As GH said, watch the season review and you''ll see how involved Martin was in many of the goals. If you want to reject facts then do so.

[Gingerpele 0]

Just looked at last seasons appearances. Martin started 21 and came on in a further 9 games. Considering he spent a decent portion of the season injured (I believe he was only fit for the last 2/3 games, and didn''t come on in them, if he was even on the bench). Jackson started 20, coming on in 19 more.

So out of the lets say 33 league games Martin was available for, he was selected to start 21 of them. So thats 21 times he was chosen ahead (or with) Jackson.

We had, Holt, Martin, Jackson, Oli Johnson and Cody Mac. With Vokes and Pacheco on loan later.

Martin was never and will never going to set the championship alight. He''s not that kind of player. He puts in a very good shift, he scores and creates goals (not just direct assists, they are a very iffy stat really, as its very easily to be heavily involved in a goal without getting the assist). I don''t care wether you like Martin or not, people have preferences. But surely you can accept he is actually a fairly decent championship striker, as he proved last season (and he was dropped at times because he wasn''t scoring, like this season we needed that second striker to bang the goals in, neither Jackson or Martin managed that early on) and has done with Palace this season. And Palace aren''t a great side, so scoring more than there other strikers, from AM (and up front, he''s played both positions there) is pretty good.

Zaha is/was supposed to be the next big thing. Based on goals alone, Martin has done better than him. I imagine Zaha has still been pretty influential in a lot of Palace''s goals and attacking movements though.

["""""""""Ben """"""""""" 0]

He started quite a few against Leicester then went on to have a 7 or 8 game spell in the team before he got dropped.

And he did try the 1 man up front against Barnsley away ( I was there). Didn''t create a lot of chances but won the game from two very good goals from Crofts.

I''m not denying the fact that there is more to scoring goals as a striker but that''s what you''re judged on. And if you aren''t scoring goals as a striker you will be dropped.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Ben "]I''m not denying the fact that there is more to scoring goals as a striker but that''s what you''re judged on. And if you aren''t scoring goals as a striker you will be dropped.[/quote]So with Martin being Palace''s top goalscorer this season as well as providing numerous assists, I take it that he should be judged in a favourable light if we were to use your own performance yardstick?

[Gingerpele 0]

Ok firstly thank you, for getting involved in the discussion and explaining your opinion.

The 1 man upfront was clearly not a regularly used tactic last season (if only because we only had one out and out winger, in MacNamee). So there were plenty of games when Jackson or Martin were needed to partner Holt.

The benefit of our team then, and still, is the goals from other areas of the team. Last season more so, with R.Martin and Crofts scoring quite a few, Lansbury and Surman chipped in when they played. Hoolahan while not as prolific as in League One still got a respectable amount. I think the way Martin and Hoolahan played, allowed Holt to score more goals.

I''m not going to work it out, so this could be way of the mark, but I reckon Holt scored more playing with Martin, than he did with Jackson (especially in the last 2/3 months when Jackson was scoring goals). Just because Jackson was then doing a lot of the goal scoring, allowing Holt a more all round game. WIth Martin up front, he was the one getting involved more in the link up play, going out wide (and unlike the season before rarely cutting in to shoot, he seemed to do it every time he got the ball out on the left in League One, don''t know if he stopped because he wasn''t good enough, lost confidence or Lambert told him to stop). Of course I could be wrong, Holt may have scored more or roughly the same amount with Jackson.

And a player like Martin, at Championship level should be judged as much, if not more on that aspect of his game.

["""""""""Ben """"""""""" 0]

Was never really talking about him for palace this season anyway. He''s alright for them, but was saying he didn''t offer a great amount to us in our Championship season.

[Gingerpele 0]

I write too much on here :P

I should be writing an practical work evaluation....

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Ben "]Was never really talking about him for palace this season anyway. He''s alright for them, but was saying he didn''t offer a great amount to us in our Championship season.[/quote]That''s right, let''s totally dismiss the fact that he''s actually had a pretty good season on loan at Palace this year, and instead focus on last season where he wasn''t as prolific infront of goal.Nothing like a nice fair debate is there?As has been pointed out already, he does more than just score, and whilst I''ll freely admit that his goal tally was fairly low last season, until his great run of form near the end, Jackson was on exactly the same goal tally as Martin was, with both having scored 4 times in 30 games.The only difference is that Martin was then injured, and Jackson went on to hit his purple patch in Martin''s absence.I don''t actually see there''s much between them tbh, with Jackson having the greater pace, but Martin the better finishing.

["""""""""Ben """"""""""" 0]

I''m not dismissing it. I just don''t feel as though I can comment on him this season and i haven''t seen him play for palace, and have only seen a few of his goals when I could be bothered to watch the football league show. Going by your statistics yes, 7 goals is decent for a mid table team.

But that purple patch from Jackson turned out to push us over the line and get us promoted right? If he didn''t score those goals we definitely wouldn''t have secured second place.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Ben "]I''m not dismissing it. I just don''t feel as though I can comment on him this season and i haven''t seen him play for palace, and have only seen a few of his goals when I could be bothered to watch the football league show. Going by your statistics yes, 7 goals is decent for a mid table team.[/quote]That''s fair enough, it''s not like I''ve been stalking the lad either, but statistically he seems to have done well for them.[quote]But that purple patch from Jackson turned out to push us over the line and get us promoted right? If he didn''t score those goals we definitely wouldn''t have secured second place.[/quote]My problem with this is that whilst he deserves full credit and respect for doing it - he''s not done it since, and in reality, the majority of strikers go through one of these periods where everything is golden. If he''d done it halfway through the season it would arguably have been much less memorable than it turned out to be, yet it appears that this run of form made Jackson appear to be a much better player then Martin to many fans, when in reality I don''t think there''s much difference overall.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

If he were a Palace player would we buy him ? no chance. He has had many opportunities here and i suspect he has had his last provided someone wants to buy him

["""""""""Ben """"""""""" 0]

"If he''d done it halfway through the season it would arguably have been much less memorable than it turned out to be, yet it appears that this run of form made Jackson appear to be a much better player then Martin to many fans, when in reality I don''t think there''s much difference overall."

Yeah this is true. And I agree that there isn''t much difference between them and it has been seen this season that Jackson hasn''t made much of an impact (he''s had a decent few games but not enough). Which is why we''ll need a new striker in the summer.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Let''s try to add a bit of extra perspective here:Wilfried Zaha - 6 league goals from 41 gamesGlenn Murray - 6 league goals from 37 gamesJermaine Easter - 5 league goals from 33 gamesSean Scannell - 4 league goals from 37 gamesChris Martin - 7 league goals from 30 gamesSo he''s outperformed every other striker at Palace, both on total league goals and based on goals per game, and this includes the much vaunted Zaha who apparently was worth 5 million plus in January (I admit he''s moves between winger and striker).So in regards to ''setting the Championship alight'', maybe he hasn''t as such, but he has been the strongest performer from a goals/striker perspective, in what was an underperforming and often pretty crappy Palace side.[/quote]Interesting...I''ve always liked Chris Martin as a player, I''ll admit it. I liked his confidence on the ball, and his technical control. 7 goals from an advanced midfield position is actually pretty good (a decent return for a striker is 1 goal every 3 games, Martin''s currently scoring a goal every 4-ish games). To put that into perspective Howson, who if Chris Martin returned some are suggesting he will compete with, scored 10 last season, and that Leeds side finished just outside the playoffs and were, I believe, the second highest scorers in the league unlike this pretty average (and very defensive) Palace side. Whilst I would like nothing more than Chris Martin to return and prove how highly I rate him, I doubt it''s going to happen, He''s'' 24 next season, and this is when the best form of his career *should* start, a move away might be best for all parties, especially if the Brighton rumours were true and they were willing to offer over 1 million pounds.

[. 0]

Grant Holt didn''t go to Singapore for a sun tan and I think Chris should now spread his wings and get away from Norfolk with a permanent signing elsewhere.Loans are a killer for the morale and just as we saw at City a few years back.... loanees don''t entirely have their heart in it as a rule and can feel rejected by their own club.... especially when it comes to a local lad.Get away Chris and then give it all you''ve got! [Y]

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Please some of you get the "Chris Martins local and from our youth set up" blinkered glasses off!

 

Yeah hes a good player who done well for us in patches in his stint with us but hes not good enough for the Premiership and from his own personal point of view a move away from Norwich to a Championship side would be his best move!

[Gingerpele 0]

Who is saying he''s good enough for the premiership? A couple of people have suggested he could be useful as backup, thats it. Why have you decided to ignore that? Just so you can get in a little dig at people?

[Herman 9,712]

[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

Please some of you get the "Chris Martins local and from our youth set up" blinkered glasses off!

 

Yeah hes a good player who done well for us in patches in his stint with us but hes not good enough for the Premiership and from his own personal point of view a move away from Norwich to a Championship side would be his best move!

[/quote]

That is exactly what people have been saying.

Now take your ''anti-Martin glasses'' off please.

 

[TheRock 154]

[quote user="Aaron"]I think Chris Martin is one of the best finishers in our squad... Give him a ball when hes confident, and he can find the corner of the net from most places around the box...

But everything else to do with his game is poor, he isnt quick, doesn''t chase, not good aerially, doesnt seem to put 100% in etc...

Id just like to know where his confidence vanished to after league 1...[/quote]

Games build confidence - And the three points i''ve highlighted - he''s quicker than Morsion, chases worthwhile causes and eariler in the season I think he looked great at Palace after a few games, really up for it.But yeah you''re right, he''d never fit back into Lambert''s plans because he has nothing on Moro / Alby in the air [:@]

[TheRock 154]

Also, going back to the point of getting 7 goals in the championship; you''ve got to bear in mind that they were gained from him playing in CAM behind the two front men most of the season, from playing RM / LM. Maybe that''s what we need in Chris - a flexible utility player that can play both upfront and in the midfield - We need players that can score rather than just Holt.Apart from Pilks and Surman (arguably Morison pre-Christmas [S] ), no-one in our squand can score on a regular basis. This could be our downfall next season and keeping Chris in the frame could save us forking out for another player.

[Indy_Bones 441]

Another key issue with Chrissy is that his style of play isn''t seem as much in the more modern game, if he''d have appeared 15 years ago he''d have been a demon, sort of a slightly more withdrawn Fowler, able to finish extremely well, but not amazing in many other areas of his game.Is he good enough for the top level? I honestly don''t know, and these days most forward players tend to fit into 1 of 2 main stereotypes and Martin isn''t either of them.If we''re going to keep players like Jackson and Wilbraham here as backup, then Martin should also stay as he''s certainly no worse than either of them, but if Lambert is really looking to further change his frontline, then I''d guess that all of them could be surplus to requirements dependant on who is available.

[TheRock 154]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhWN6LgRgic Thought I''d post this too, for the doubters. [:D]

[jb88 0]

Simple fact of the matter is chris martin isnt good enough for the premier league.He has talent yes and was fantastic in league 1 & parts of the championship season but as ben said he scored 4 goals in 30 championship games, & yes of course he contributed in assists etc but he is a striker & 4 goals in a promotion winning side isnt exactly setting the world alight is it?!i''d love him to come back & prove me wrong but i cant see it happening!

 

When ever ive seen him play behind the front 2 or in a deeper role he looks alot better to me , so maybe thats an option if lambert does decide to keep him.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="jb88"]Simple fact of the matter is chris martin isnt good enough for the premier league.[/quote]No, that''s not a simple fact, that''s your simple opinion.[quote]He has talent yes and was fantastic in league 1 & parts of the championship season but as ben said he scored 4 goals in 30 championship games, & yes of course he contributed in assists etc but he is a striker & 4 goals in a promotion winning side isnt exactly setting the world alight is it?[/quote]And as I previously pointed out, until Chrissy''s injury that season, he and Jackson were sat on the same number of goals for the same number of games, the difference was that Jackson got to play a further 10 games on top of Chrissy and hit a purple patch at the same time, but for the swings of fate it could have been the other way round.[quote]When ever ive seen him play behind the front 2 or in a deeper role he looks alot better to me , so maybe thats an option if lambert does decide to keep him.[/quote]That''s exactly where I''d be looking to play him as well.He doesn''t have the raw pace or strength to use against premiership defenders, so the deeper role suits his abilities much better, and he has a good shot from distance on him to boot.The problem there is that we''d need to play a man in the hole, and he''d be competing with Hoolahan and possibly Howson for the job, although I still think that Hoolahan is better at this level as an impact player and Howson is better more centrally.

[. 0]

A good and knowledgable summary Indy.... [Y]

[star_manic 0]

realistically, PL deemed him not up to the level required this season so loaned him out. next season i would hope we try to step up to the next level so unless martin has had a remarkable improvement in his abilities i can see no way PL will want to keep him. sorry chris, thank you for all you have done for our club and good luck in the future wherever you may be from next season.