Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Frankly speaking

Up to 9th and I'm still angry!

Recommended Posts

A good post - I don''t expect to see the penalty appeals on match of the day tonight - as I also didn''t see the Leighton Baines tackle on Saturday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep, have to agree. The standard of refereeing recently, not just effecting Norwich, has been terrible. And it is honestly making it hard to enjoy football.

And what makes it even worse, is that the FA probably don''t care, what are they going to do about it? they don''t even punish their officials, if they make a really bad decision, they make them 4th official next week (which they do occasionally anyway, regardless of their decision making), and if its a consistently poor performance from them over a fairly long period, they might get relegated for a few weeks.

I think some other organisation (Fifa, uefa, someone) needs to look at the standard of the officials, take note of clubs (and maybe even fans) complaints, look at the decisions impartially and have the power to punish these referees. Its ruining games, its taking points away from teams (if Wigan go on a poor run of form now, I think a part of that will be down to the linesman failing to see two offside goals against them). It doesn''t just have an effect on one result either, it has an effect on many. If you lose a game, even because of the referee, it is still going to have the same mental effect on you, you''ve still lost, in fact it could be harder to take, as you probably deserved something more from the game but it was stolen from you.

Basically, something needs to change, but I don''t expect it to any time soon :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"which arguably might just have kept them up (and earned them the estimated £90m"eh ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I quite enjoyed comparing the Man U penalty vs QPR (given, soft, offside) to the Fulham non-penalty v Man U (obvious, not given) - the season is littered with these displays of big club bias.  The best thing we can do is keep winning and become a big club ourselves so we can take full advantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.. and Chelsea were awarded a dubious penalty against Fulham tonight. There is definitely one law for the bigger clubs !!!! [:@]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is bias towards favouring the ''big four'' clubs by refereees (whilst shafting us and other ''smaller'' clubs) - at least in regards to penalty decisions, and this is something I''ve been able to prove with stats.Not wanting to intrude on your blog Frank, but for those interested in seeing exactly how biased the refereeing has been for the last 10 years, have a scan here:[url]http://www.indybonestruth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/foul-play-at-top.html[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="paul moy"].. and Chelsea were awarded a dubious penalty against Fulham tonight. There is definitely one law for the bigger clubs !!!! [:@][/quote]

 

Thought exactly the same thing when I saw it paul. Though, in fairness, I''ve seen those such as those in Ful v Chel go either way, both the Norwich shouts were far more clear -cut .

 

I know Hansen et al come in for a fair bit of stick on this forum, but, to give them credit they both agreed that ours were both stone wall pens.

 

Everyone makes mistakes, but I feel (and have for some time) that its the inconsistency that''s the real problem here . And, I''m sure that "size" of club does come into it. And it''s all relative ;If we were honest we got decisions in Lge One that refs would never have given to Yeovil, Walsall and Stockport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think one of the big issues is that awarding a penalty is sometimes human nature. If 70,000 people go up and are screaming for it, you are probably likely to be influenced by that. Its take a very, very strong character not be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i thought in general michael oliver had a good game yesterday -all over the pitch excepting the penalty area where he totally bottled it. just not prepared to give penalty decisions that even lawrence on MOTD said were stonewall penalties. [:@]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''m still waiting for someone to suggest a solution. Refs are human and will inevitably make mistakes.Will having some sort of sanction system for when they get things wrong, on top of the reactions of supporters (often wildly inaccurate), slow motion replays from multiple angles which the officials don''t have, and the pontification of the know-it-all pundits, really make them more able to make the correct decisions? Who on here would genuinely want to be a Prem referee? We need to be coming up with ways of helping them, not just adding to the opportunities for people to slag them off.Indy - your blog makes for interesting reading, and I agree it would be educative for referees to have these sorts of stats pointed out to them, but I don''t see many other realistic offers of ways of mitigating the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Nuff Said"]I''m still waiting for someone to suggest a solution. Refs are human and will inevitably make mistakes.[/quote]

 

Quite so NS. I agreed that everyone makes mistakes in my previous posting.

 

My take on this is that the constant chopping and changing of rules and edicts from the FA do not help refs in this . Earlier in this season when there was all the furore about red cards for "on the ground ,studs showing " tackles most of the trouble was caused by the FA giving out mixed messages as to what was permissible and what was not.  There has been similar ambiguity about what to do when players go to ground in the box (something which may have been a factor in the Holt and Wilbraham penalty shouts yesterday).

 

So to answer your question, a good start could be the FA choosing a rule, giving clear unambiguous advice to refs as to how it should be enforced, and, moreover STICKING WITH IT for more than one season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

So to answer your question, a good start could be the FA choosing a rule, giving clear unambiguous advice to refs as to how it should be enforced, and, moreover STICKING WITH IT for more than one season.

[/quote]

 

I agree but I think, and no doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong, the rules have not changed just the interpretation of those rules. A lot of the confusion over red cards for tackles that in this country we had previously not even considered as fouls stems from the interpretation of serious foul play. The FIFA rules state "A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play. A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play. Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play." Now I don''t think this rule has been changed, again hopefully someone will correct me if I''m wrong, but what has changed is the FA''s interpretation of what constitutes ''excessive force or brutality'' and when a tackle is ''endangering the safety of an opponent''. I''ve heard it suggested that if a player is no longer in control of their body (for instance, if both feet are off the ground) then referees have been told to automatically view a tackle as endangering the safety of an opponent but I''m not sure if this is 100% true.

 

One thing I am sure about is that there is no mention of winning the ball first when it comes to deciding whether a tackle can be deemed as serious foul play. This is something that seems to confuse pundits, fans and players alike and makes a mockery of the occasional call you get for ex-players to become referees as they ''understand the game''. A large proportion of them don''t even know the rules!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just watched the MOTD highlights again and its quite a joke really, Ledley King should have been sent off and a penalty given for us after that foul on Holt, Blatant kick on Holt from Kaboul which should have been a red and a penalty i suppose as it was in the box, then Adebayor fouled Wilbraham so we should have had a penalty for that.

Not to mention the joke of a referee against Everton, both of there goals were a bit of a joke imo. The foul for there first goal was a bit weak considering the challenge on Holt just before. Leighton Baines should have had 3 yellow cards and the referee was in the way half the game.

I have seen more consistent referees in league one and I just don''t think refs can keep up with the Premier League games and pressure. Something needs to be done because its a bit of a joke, maybe more money needs to be given to referees... something needs to be done though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="G"]Just watched the MOTD highlights again and its quite a joke really, Ledley King should have been sent off and a penalty given for us after that foul on Holt, Blatant kick on Holt from Kaboul which should have been a red and a penalty i suppose as it was in the box, then Adebayor fouled Wilbraham so we should have had a penalty for that. Not to mention the joke of a referee against Everton, both of there goals were a bit of a joke imo. The foul for there first goal was a bit weak considering the challenge on Holt just before. Leighton Baines should have had 3 yellow cards and the referee was in the way half the game. I have seen more consistent referees in league one and I just don''t think refs can keep up with the Premier League games and pressure. Something needs to be done because its a bit of a joke, maybe more money needs to be given to referees... something needs to be done though.[/quote]

How will that help? I''ve heard it said that they''re getting plenty from the big Clubs already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Excellent blog Frankly and stat attack Indy. No surprises at all that Manure get those decisions year after year.How about the Premier League introducing something like the referral system in cricket. Each team is allowed to go ''upstairs'' to a video ref (4th official) and question up to two ''on field decisions'' per match? If the decision is overturned you would still have your two referrals but if it confirmed the ''on field decision'' you lose one referral.We would still get the bias I''m sure towards the big teams/established Prem teams but the refs would get the point at least that they have probably made a mistake during the game.Thankfully we were good enough to beat 12 men at Spurs but sadly not on Saturday.We must not forget that if/when we become an established Prem team (5 years+) we will be getting decisions going our way against newly promoted teams in the future. All that we and any team can ask for is a level playing field.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are several things that could be done to improve the standard of refereeing and decision-making:1.  Full-time professional referees for all full-time professional football games, trained to the same fitness levels as players. There is plenty of money circulating around football to fund this.2.  Goal-line assistants as in European matches. These would help to weed out "diving" in the area, as well as being able to spot blind-side handballs and shirt-pulling etc. which the referee often misses. Again, there is enough money in the game to fund this.3.  Clear and consistent guidance from FIFA via the FA and the referees professional association, on the current interpretation of the laws.4.  Allowing referees to  talk to the media after the match, to give their interpretation of what happened.Also (obviously this one can''t be enforced) the TV companies should employ more referees on their panels of "experts", rather than tired old ex-players who can hardly stay awake long enough to string two coherent words together. After all, a huge proportion of the match analysis concerns refereeing decisions, so why not have someone with some idea what they are talking about?What do other people think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think they should be able to explain their decisions which might lead to more general respect and less confusion over those decisions made?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="G"]Just watched the MOTD highlights again and its quite a joke really, Ledley King should have been sent off and a penalty given for us after that foul on Holt, Blatant kick on Holt from Kaboul which should have been a red and a penalty i suppose as it was in the box, then Adebayor fouled Wilbraham so we should have had a penalty for that. Not to mention the joke of a referee against Everton, both of there goals were a bit of a joke imo. The foul for there first goal was a bit weak considering the challenge on Holt just before. Leighton Baines should have had 3 yellow cards and the referee was in the way half the game. I have seen more consistent referees in league one and I just don''t think refs can keep up with the Premier League games and pressure. Something needs to be done because its a bit of a joke, maybe more money needs to be given to referees... something needs to be done though.[/quote]

How will that help? I''ve heard it said that they''re getting plenty from the big Clubs already.

[/quote]

Because it will attract more people to try and become a pro referee, i certainly wouldn''t want to do it for the money they get now considering the amount of abuse they also get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can''t post clickable links sorry, but noticed this on the BBC; http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17668965

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...