How far can NCFC go as a club?

[ricardo 7,339]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

Ricardo wrote:  "Realistic and far too sensible for all those with hambition Morty.   Even if we could constantly fill a 35k stadium (which I very much doubt) we would still be way way below the Manure''s and Arsenals of this world.  I''m all for dreaming dreams but lets not get too silly. Winning a cup and getting into the top 10 ought to be possible in extremely good years but the big boys will always come and nick your best players or manager, that''s the reality of it."

 

 

Reality Reality.  What is reality?     The ''big boys'' are there to be beaten.    We really have to get this mentality right or no-one is ever going to compete properly against them.   Too many people put them on a pedastal.    Surely this season has proved a point in the way some of these ''big boys'' have been brought down a peg or two by various clubs - notably Swansea.   Get out there with your best players - great manager - great club set up and beat them.      The only people who say its impossible are the media and statisticians.   The media is not to be trusted and statistics can be manipulated in any way you want.    We have to believe we can go higher and keep going higher. The only alternative is settling for less. As soon as you settle for less you will start going down.   It''s inevitable.    Aim for the top.

 

 

 

[/quote]I don''t want to spoil your dream LDC because it is indeed a beautiful dream. In fact I would be happy to dream along with you and nothing would please me more if everything you say comes to pass. However I base my opinions on things that I regard as reality.1. We are a medium size club in a sparsely populated part of the country.2. Even 35k gates wouldn''t put us on a par with the so called big boys. ( in any event full houses at CR are a recent phenomena)3. We could never attract the top stars of the game (or justify it financially)4. History shows our top stars eventually get sold (freedom of contract means you can''t keep them when the £  signs light up)5. History also shows that NCFC ''s fortunes fluctuate up and down ( we are no different to other clubs)6. Presently we are living through a very enjoyable upswing. It won''t last forever.Come back in ten years and tell me I was wrong.[;)]

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Shaker Maker"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]Even if we returned to an economic age we would still be hamstrung by a lack of support. There are simply not enough Norwich City fans to generate the income to enable us to compete with the mega-clubs. That even the most optimistic fans - and directors - are talking only about a 35,000-seat stadium tells its own story.

 That said, we are in a happy position IF the financial bubble bursts. Unlike some other clubs, the essentials at Norwich City, thanks to Watling, South, Chase and Smith and Jones, are solid. We own the ground. We own the training ground. Neither is in need of any massive tarting up. We are in a position (luckily, since we have to) to pay off our debts. We have a solid core of suppprt, although one worry is that the new regime may be taking that too much for granted.

[/quote]Purple, I am delighted that you have graced this thread. I consider you to be one of the best posters on this board.However I feel that I have to take issue with one of your points. Our supporter base is huge- not on the 45k+ level but I would have absolutely no worries that we could sell out a 35,000 seater stadium. Maybe even a couple of thousand more?  [/quote]

 

You sweet-talking devil, you!!!

 

To be clear I wasn''t saying we couldn''t fill a 35,00-seat stadium. Although, along with David Cuffley, I am dubious about the club''s business plan, which is that we would fill it for every game. Ie, for Wigan or WBA at 3pm on a Saturday or for Southampton or Newcastle at 8pm on a Monday. The point I was making is that the mega-clubs have stadia of 60,000 or more, because they can fill them, and need to fill them, for financial reasons. We are simply nowhere near that, and I doubt we ever will be, unless the fish of the North Sea turn into people. In terms of generating income there is a limit beyond which we cannot rise, and it is way below the limit for the mega-clubs.

[/quote]What is the population of East Anglia would you say?I include the whole of East Anglia because if things pan out like I hope they will do, the Blue filth (2nd biggest club in East Anglia) will not stand a chance in the level of supporter stakes. They can have their 16/17 thousand hardcore supporters where as Carrow Road could benefit from Lambert''s Legacy.We are a massive club and the levels of support are sometimes under-estimated (I could be wrong). If we maintain these levels of success and have a few years of 6th/7th placings our support could grow and grow.  Of course saying all this, we could go down next season encouraging PL to leave and we could be up *creek...Speculate to accumulate as someone once said [Y]

[Indy_Bones 441]

I have to agree with LDC here.If we''re being honest, none of us expected to be here last season, a decent CCC finish would have been very acceptable, a play-off place even better, but promotion was something only the most optimisitic of fans could have predicted. Because of this we''ve come up with pretty much a Championship side (with a few Prem standard players thrown in), and this ''Championship'' side has managed to nick points off the big boys, as have another ''Championship'' side in Swansea.Now take these sides and make key improvements so there''s less ''Championship'' standard players and more ''Premiership'' standard players, and then tell me that they can''t compete even better than we have done already against the top six. If we can steal points (and even outplay big teams at times) with our current team, then an improved one should increase this even further.At times this season, many of the ''big'' teams have looked distinctly average, certainly not ''untouchable'', and whilst the financial gap is massive, the quality gap at times hasn''t been anywhere near as big. That''s not to say that these teams when on form wouldn''t beat most sides, but simply that the form book has been all over this season, which gives opportunities for ''lesser'' sides to get results against the odds.I do also want to point out that whilst Arsenal have spent significantly since the prem started, their overall spending bill is incredibly small when you take into account player sales against purchases. It''s actually phenomenal what Wenger has done there in those terms, yet Lambert looks to be doing something very similar with us, Fox being a prime example, cost £50k and would probably fetch £2-4 million if sold now. If anyone is interested in the article showing the spending of the ''big'' teams, it''s still up on my blog here:[URL]http://www.indybonestruth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/living-legend-or-past-his-sell-by-date.html[/URL]

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Shaker Maker"]


What is the population of East Anglia would you say?

I include the whole of East Anglia because if things pan out like I hope they will do, the Blue filth (2nd biggest club in East Anglia) will not stand a chance in the level of supporter stakes. They can have their 16/17 thousand hardcore supporters where as Carrow Road could benefit from Lambert''s Legacy.

We are a massive club and the levels of support are sometimes under-estimated (I could be wrong).

If we maintain these levels of success and have a few years of 6th/7th placings our support could grow and grow.

 Of course saying all this, we could go down next season encouraging PL to leave and we could be up *creek...

Speculate to accumulate as someone once said [Y]
[/quote]

 

Shaker Maker, you and lDC are vying for the title of Optimist of the Year! A rough Wiki estimate is that the population of East Anglia (ie, Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambs) is around 2.1m. But the scenario you paint, of being THE team in a region, strikes me as highly unlikely. We are not Barcelona, and East Anglia is not Catalonia.

 

A cold dose of statistics. Even when we had a 40,000-plus stadium our highest ever average attendance was 27,000. Of course I would expect that to rise by several thousand if we got a 35,000-seat stadium and continued, generally, to be successful. But the comparison I was making was with the income generated for the big clubs by crowds of 60,000 and more. I cannot, cannot, cannot ever see that happening for us.

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

Shaker Maker, you and lDC are vying for the title of Optimist of the Year! A rough Wiki estimate is that the population of East Anglia (ie, Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambs) is around 2.1m. But the scenario you paint, of being THE team in a region, strikes me as highly unlikely. We are not Barcelona, and East Anglia is not Catalonia.

 

A cold dose of statistics. Even when we had a 40,000-plus stadium our highest ever average attendance was 27,000. Of course I would expect that to rise by several thousand if we got a 35,000-seat stadium and continued, generally, to be successful. But the comparison I was making was with the income generated for the big clubs by crowds of 60,000 and more. I cannot, cannot, cannot ever see that happening for us.

[/quote]The thing is though Purple, I dont feel like I''m being overly optimistic.If we were to become a good, solid, attractive football playing premier league squad then when the young kiddies develop a football fascination who will be the club that immediately springs to their little minds?Not the team constantly finishing mid table in the second tier failing to sell out a 30,000 seater ground ...No. It will be the team with the lovely yellow and green shirts playing in front of 35,000 people who host Manchester United, Manchester City, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea once a season. Maybe throw Liverpool in for good measure [;)]

[morty 0]

Norwich City will never be a fashionable club, a club that is marketable around the world like a Man Utd or a Liverpool.It will be a well supported club, supported by its local population, a club with principals and values, and I am happy with this.I would love the ambition desired by some in this thread to become a reality, I really would, but it takes more than an ambitious manager and some good old team spirit these days, it takes cold, hard cash, its as simple as that.So we have a ceiling, mainly limited by our crowd size, which is limited by our local population and catchment area. Also by our "fashionability" which means that even if we did have the money, could we attract global superstars to our lovely county?Lets face it, we are all optimistic, or we wouldn''t bother turning up every week!

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

[quote user="morty"]Norwich City will never be a fashionable club, a club that is marketable around the world like a Man Utd or a Liverpool.It will be a well supported club, supported by its local population, a club with principals and values, and I am happy with this.I would love the ambition desired by some in this thread to become a reality, I really would, but it takes more than an ambitious manager and some good old team spirit these days, it takes cold, hard cash, its as simple as that.So we have a ceiling, mainly limited by our crowd size, which is limited by our local population and catchment area. Also by our "fashionability" which means that even if we did have the money, could we attract global superstars to our lovely county?Lets face it, we are all optimistic, or we wouldn''t bother turning up every week! [/quote]It''s all relative though isnt it? I dont think anyone would think that we could ever be on the level of Man Utd or Liverpool in terms of global support and indeed support.The two mentioned clubs havent always been giants of the world game. I can see the day when despite having a 35,000 seater stadium there will still be demand for more tickets for home games.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="morty"]Norwich City will never be a fashionable club, a club that is marketable around the world like a Man Utd or a Liverpool.It will be a well supported club, supported by its local population, a club with principals and values, and I am happy with this.I would love the ambition desired by some in this thread to become a reality, I really would, but it takes more than an ambitious manager and some good old team spirit these days, it takes cold, hard cash, its as simple as that.So we have a ceiling, mainly limited by our crowd size, which is limited by our local population and catchment area. Also by our "fashionability" which means that even if we did have the money, could we attract global superstars to our lovely county?Lets face it, we are all optimistic, or we wouldn''t bother turning up every week! [/quote]Fashionable, the exact word I used on here the other day.  Whereas you say we will never be fashionable,  I said how do we become fashionable.  I believe we can, we saw glimpses of it during our European outings, when imo we became most football fans'' favourite second team.  I believe with strategies we can do it. 

[morty 0]

[quote user="Shaker Maker"][quote user="morty"]Norwich City will never be a fashionable club, a club that is marketable around the world like a Man Utd or a Liverpool.It will be a well supported club, supported by its local population, a club with principals and values, and I am happy with this.I would love the ambition desired by some in this thread to become a reality, I really would, but it takes more than an ambitious manager and some good old team spirit these days, it takes cold, hard cash, its as simple as that.So we have a ceiling, mainly limited by our crowd size, which is limited by our local population and catchment area. Also by our "fashionability" which means that even if we did have the money, could we attract global superstars to our lovely county?Lets face it, we are all optimistic, or we wouldn''t bother turning up every week! [/quote]It''s all relative though isnt it? I dont think anyone would think that we could ever be on the level of Man Utd or Liverpool in terms of global support and indeed support.The two mentioned clubs havent always been giants of the world game. I can see the day when despite having a 35,000 seater stadium there will still be demand for more tickets for home games.

[/quote]On your last point, I really can''t, for various reasons already mentioned.Its a risk a lot have clubs have taken and paid a massive price for, I know people hate the phrase "Prudence with ambition" but it is still relevent, the club would be stupid to take unrealistic risks. As long as we continue to go in the right direction, as we have done in recent times, I just thing fans need to be realistic.You watch in the summer, there will be peopel whining "Why haven''t we signed X player, he''s only 10 million and wants 50k a week"People need to remember this isn''t a game of Fifa on their X-box.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="Shaker Maker"][quote user="morty"]Norwich City will never be a fashionable club, a club that is marketable around the world like a Man Utd or a Liverpool.It will be a well supported club, supported by its local population, a club with principals and values, and I am happy with this.I would love the ambition desired by some in this thread to become a reality, I really would, but it takes more than an ambitious manager and some good old team spirit these days, it takes cold, hard cash, its as simple as that.So we have a ceiling, mainly limited by our crowd size, which is limited by our local population and catchment area. Also by our "fashionability" which means that even if we did have the money, could we attract global superstars to our lovely county?Lets face it, we are all optimistic, or we wouldn''t bother turning up every week! [/quote]It''s all relative though isnt it? I dont think anyone would think that we could ever be on the level of Man Utd or Liverpool in terms of global support and indeed support.The two mentioned clubs havent always been giants of the world game. I can see the day when despite having a 35,000 seater stadium there will still be demand for more tickets for home games.[/quote]It can be done. A certain number of the 35,000, say 200-300 can be reserved each game for kids of a certain age who belong to schools, clubs etc on top of what we already do. While we''re not getting top cash for the seats, you''re laying the foundations to entice the kids to want to be a Norwich fan rather than run with the crowd and choose a ''glamour club'' just because.

[Mister Chops 7]

Norwich & Lambert are similar (though slightly behind) in my view to what Leicester achieved under Martin O''Neill.  The lesson for us there is to identify potential candidates for when (not if) he goes, and start succession planning early.

[Trent Canary 0]

The more I read threads like this the more concerned I get. Of course I want us to keep progressing, and aim as high as possible. But being realistic, sooner or later our upturn in fortunes is going to halt. I just hope our fans are ready for when this inevitably happens, and that expectations have not risen so high that a relegation scrap next season will end up with the type of scenes we have seen at Molineux and Ewood (Where frankly the fans have contributed to the problems)Twenty years ago I would agree that we should be looking to top 6 next season, but football is a different game these days. I do expect us to have a real go at becoming a solid mid-table team, but avoiding a relegation fight will still be a big task next season.More to the point, Lambert wont be here forever.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="The Pink un Role Model"][quote user="morty"]Norwich City will never be a fashionable club, a club that is marketable around the world like a Man Utd or a Liverpool.

It will be a well supported club, supported by its local population, a club with principals and values, and I am happy with this.

I would love the ambition desired by some in this thread to become a reality, I really would, but it takes more than an ambitious manager and some good old team spirit these days, it takes cold, hard cash, its as simple as that.

So we have a ceiling, mainly limited by our crowd size, which is limited by our local population and catchment area. Also by our "fashionability" which means that even if we did have the money, could we attract global superstars to our lovely county?

Lets face it, we are all optimistic, or we wouldn''t bother turning up every week!
[/quote]

Fashionable, the exact word I used on here the other day.  Whereas you say we will never be fashionable,  I said how do we become fashionable.  I believe we can, we saw glimpses of it during our European outings, when imo we became most football fans'' favourite second team.  I believe with strategies we can do it. 
[/quote]

 

Possibly in their hearts, but not in their wallets. They didn''t start coming to watch us play. We had attendances that season, during and after that European run, of 16,000. After we had beaten Bayern and before we played Inter we had just 16,600 for Man City at home.

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

The facts are that Bowkett and McNally have both said that after 2 years of Premier league football the board will look to expand Carrow Road to 35,000 seats.http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/mcnally_norwich_city_are_staying_put_at_carrow_road_1_815559The 3 years quote came from the supporters forum that I attended late last year.I think for the near future we can be extremely satisfied with being a constant premier league fixture.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="The Pink un Role Model"][quote user="morty"]Norwich City will never be a fashionable club, a club that is marketable around the world like a Man Utd or a Liverpool.It will be a well supported club, supported by its local population, a club with principals and values, and I am happy with this.I would love the ambition desired by some in this thread to become a reality, I really would, but it takes more than an ambitious manager and some good old team spirit these days, it takes cold, hard cash, its as simple as that.So we have a ceiling, mainly limited by our crowd size, which is limited by our local population and catchment area. Also by our "fashionability" which means that even if we did have the money, could we attract global superstars to our lovely county?Lets face it, we are all optimistic, or we wouldn''t bother turning up every week! [/quote]Fashionable, the exact word I used on here the other day.  Whereas you say we will never be fashionable,  I said how do we become fashionable.  I believe we can, we saw glimpses of it during our European outings, when imo we became most football fans'' favourite second team.  I believe with strategies we can do it.  [/quote]

 

Possibly in their hearts, but not in their wallets. They didn''t start coming to watch us play. We had attendances that season, during and after that European run, of 16,000. After we had beaten Bayern and before we played Inter we had just 16,600 for Man City at home.

[/quote]Okay you can''t disagree with facts, but if we can gain 10,000 fans since then. I really can''t see another 8,000 on top of that too far out of the question.  Then again the ticket prices would still have to be affordable.

[morty 0]

[quote user="The Pinkun Role Model"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="The Pink un Role Model"][quote user="morty"]Norwich City will never be a fashionable club, a club that is marketable around the world like a Man Utd or a Liverpool.It will be a well supported club, supported by its local population, a club with principals and values, and I am happy with this.I would love the ambition desired by some in this thread to become a reality, I really would, but it takes more than an ambitious manager and some good old team spirit these days, it takes cold, hard cash, its as simple as that.So we have a ceiling, mainly limited by our crowd size, which is limited by our local population and catchment area. Also by our "fashionability" which means that even if we did have the money, could we attract global superstars to our lovely county?Lets face it, we are all optimistic, or we wouldn''t bother turning up every week! [/quote]Fashionable, the exact word I used on here the other day.  Whereas you say we will never be fashionable,  I said how do we become fashionable.  I believe we can, we saw glimpses of it during our European outings, when imo we became most football fans'' favourite second team.  I believe with strategies we can do it.  [/quote]

 

Possibly in their hearts, but not in their wallets. They didn''t start coming to watch us play. We had attendances that season, during and after that European run, of 16,000. After we had beaten Bayern and before we played Inter we had just 16,600 for Man City at home.

[/quote]Okay you can''t disagree with facts, but if we can gain 10,000 fans since then. I really can''t see another 8,000 on top of that too far out of the question.  Then again the ticket prices would still have to be affordable.[/quote]But the massive increase in season ticket holders was achieved by basically underselling the seats, at a knockdown price which meant bums on seats but rising debt and average football.We can''t have it all roads, you want success, you have to stump up for it.

[ricardo 7,339]

In our entire history there have only ever been 9 league games with a gate over 35k . 4 of them were in the early 1970''s and the other 5 were in Division 3 South between 1948 and 1951.Plus   11 - FA Cup, 1- League Cup  1- Texaco CupHistory says we will never fill a 35k Stadium on a regular basis

[Mello Yello 2,278]

"IF"......"WHEN"......NCFC do increase the stadium capacity to 35,000 seats, I personally think, that a percentage of current season ticket holders will relinquish their season tickets, preferring instead - to become super-members/members. Reason being, is that I don''t think that there would a problem in obtaining casual tickets for their ''pick an'' choose'' Premiership games..... The demand for tickets for home games against the ''Top teams'' may see an uptake in demand for those games.....but, 8,000 extra seats for games against the less attractive opposition - and the way that the state of the economy is with continuous ever rising costs and expenses for more or less everything that has a price, (and that there doesn''t seem to be a hopeful and significant light at the end of the financial tunnel) may influence many supporters into making their decision to opt for a membership as opposed to purchasing a ST.

 

It''s only my personal opinion on the subject......but, individual and family financial sacrifices have to be made, disposable income will be limited for many - and who knows what can be predicted 2 or 3 seasons from now? Lambert and Co tempted and moving on? Players departing for pastures new, CE headhunted by bigger club offering a more attractive position elsewhere, and Directors & Board changes, etc etc....?

 

I do remain hopeful that the club will robustly lay the foundations for the future of NCFC with investment in the 1st team,  in city youth, and in the pursuit of substantial investors/future ownership - as our current benefactors will one day, move to one side and perhaps retire.

 

WE must not let the present impetus falter or fade.....as we all witnessed what occurred 3 seasons ago......Next time, we may not be so fortunate...

 

 

 

 

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

Ricardo me ol'' treacle a few things...a) the population of Norfolk will grow. b) Things change. Scum *used* to have a decent team, they dont now.

[ricardo 7,339]

[quote user="Shaker Maker"]Ricardo me ol'' treacle a few things...a) the population of Norfolk will grow. b) Things change. Scum *used* to have a decent team, they dont now.

[/quote]As I said, all things change, even the fortunes of the Scum.

[spencer 1970 207]

Re: How far can NCFC go as a club?

Within this league I''d say its Newcastle...in the domestic cups Carlisle maybe...if we reach the Europa we may get a Turkish club...and its anyone guess where we could end up in this new fan-dangled jet-setting pre season friendlies! Tour of Fiji?

[Bill 1,788]

"History says we will never fill a 35k Stadium on a regular basis"Unless the price is adjusted accodingly ie downward. that downward adjustment would have to be right across the board which would rather negate the financial side of an increased capacity. Before the usual supsects over excite themselves about increased sales of hotdogs, drink programmes etcthe £20m suggested cost would require around a couple of million in annual repayments.I don''t think it is grasped how little the ticket revenue is as a percentage of the clubs annual income. ''For the current year it sold £9.3m worth of tickets'' (AGM Nov 2011) That qwould amount to slightly under 40% of our Championship income. With the likelihood of the club taking in excess of £75m this season that figure becomes far less important. A couple of more places up the table and the prize money will be more than this years season ticket sales.What should be borne in mind is how much of this has been set against the club ''Paying off the debt, most clubs are actually watching their debt rising by the year.  This could mean anything from £6m -£8m more each year for us..The biggest cost we are likely and will need to face is wages. As each player is replaced we will have to offer competitive wages. Forget the nonsense about transfer fees, players mostly have release clauses that allow them to move for relatively low transfer fees. The problem is we have to be able to compete with others.Whilst I''m sure a well run club, decent area comes into it, the bottom line will be the wages.So far we haven''t lumbered ourselves with any costly duds - nor do I think we are likely to (presuming Vaughan gets back to fitness). So as said before keep going as we are until we have shed the financial burdens of the past, replace players who need replacing and see where we are this time next season. If we are again still comfortably mid to upper table, then maybe we can start to look how much further is achievable.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="morty"]

I would love the ambition desired by some in this thread to become a reality, I really would, but it takes more than an ambitious manager and some good old team spirit these days, it takes cold, hard cash, its as simple as that.

So we have a ceiling, mainly limited by our crowd size, which is limited by our local population and catchment area. Also by our "fashionability" which means that even if we did have the money, could we attract global superstars to our lovely county?


[/quote]

 

While I agree with a lot of what you say,  you are still limiting in your mind what is possible.     You are saying that you are limiting what you can achieve because of what you haven''t got!    We haven''t got as much cash, we haven''t got as big a crowd, we haven''t got this, we haven''t got that.

 

The truth is there are no limits in football.      How do cup upsets work?  Because the underdog club believes that on its day it can be a giant killer.     How does a team down and out at the bottom of League 1 become a top 10 premiership side in three years - because the manager and players believed it could.     

 

While finances are important - belief in what you are doing is just as important.   Believe that you can do better, believe that you can beat the ''big clubs'' and you never know - you might just do it.     Belief and spirit are the most important things in football - not finances and crowd size.  

 

The  title of this thread is ''how far can the club go?''  The truth is that it could go to the top.   There are no limits. There are no precursors ordaining this or ordaining that.  Money is an issue but it''s not the main issue.  Players wages are an issue but not the main issue.    We have something special at Norwich - lets go with that and see how far it takes us.   Sure we will inevitably have a downturn, but that doesn''t have to happen for a long time.  I still think the tide is turning.   The big clubs don''t look so big - their teams don''t look so ''awesome'' - their managers don''t look all that good - in short they can''t live up to the amount of money that is being churned into them.     The smaller, well run clubs are showing the way.  Other clubs will try and emulate us and Swansea.   The revolution is on.   And we are at the heart of it.    We have a head start - lets enjoy the ride and not limit our minds as to what we can achieve in the next few seasons.    

 

 

 

[morty 0]

I love your optimism[Y]I will stick with my pragmatism, but hope you''re right!

[claud 0]

These could be very interesting times for the ''big 6'', each of which have their own issues to face. Could times and fortunes be changing?

Liverpool - clinging to a top 6 status by half a finger nail. A squad full of over priced, under performing and over paid players. Gerrard''s reaching the twilight years of his career and he has carried them for years. The Dalglish move seemed inspirational at the time, but now it seems as though he believes their past hype.

Chelsea - RA''s money bought a lot of players at one time. They''re now reaching their expiry, will RA fund another full rebuilding? Will the UEFA rules allow him? Their Manager situations have been a farce. How can a double winner get the boot? Because Chelsea''s priority is the Champion League.

Tottenham - Better than they''ve been in my lifetime, but, has the bubble burst? Redknapp could well be about to be offered the England job and the mere speculation of that has thrown a spanner in the works.

Arsenal - 8 weeks ago the fans wanted Wenger gone, now he''s the messiah again. If RVP moves on all the potential in the world wont replace him.

Man Utd - Possibly their weekest team for a while, and still a huge dependance on two players with a combined age of 70+. Ferguson can''t continue forever, and their next managerial appointment may well have the most significant impact on the Premier League for years to come.

Man City - Very good players that should have won the league this year, but, they were all bought in a very short space of time. In a few years time its possible that the whole squad will need refreshing at once, the money will be there but will the UEFA rules allow it?

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="morty"]I love your optimism[Y]

I will stick with my pragmatism, but hope you''re right!
[/quote]

 

I am going to regret saying this, but this is a bit like that scene in When Harry Met Sally, with LDC doing the Meg Ryan "YES!!! YES!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" bit and Morty (typecast as ever...) doing the Bill Crystal looking on bemusedly bit, and Shaker Maker doing the "I''ll have some of what LDC is having" line at the end.

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="morty"]I love your optimism[Y]I will stick with my pragmatism, but hope you''re right![/quote]

 

I am going to regret saying this, but this is a bit like that scene in When Harry Met Sally, with LDC doing the Meg Ryan "YES!!! YES!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" bit and Morty (typecast as ever...) doing the Bill Crystal looking on bemusedly bit, and Shaker Maker doing the "I''ll have some of what LDC is having" line at the end.

[/quote][:D]!!

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Shaker Maker"] I think Mancini might have something to say about that Jas [;)]

[/quote]man city today are the chelsea of 7 years ago....in 7 years time United will still be winning the trophies, bringing through the kids (probably without fergie though)will man city be doing a liverpool and chelsea and sliding towards mid table mediocrity?money gets you quick fixes and short term wins.. development makes you great.

[. 0]

I can''t see City increasing the capacity at CR as they would lose their ''captive audience'' and so gates would decline.Limited supply and high demand is the only reason City have been able to maintain their season ticket uptake. Once that spell is broken that''s it. Basically it''s cynical blackmail... fail to renew and you lose your place. Going to the football is a deep seated habit as much as anything else.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

"IF"......"WHEN"......NCFC do increase the stadium capacity to 35,000 seats, I personally think, that a percentage of current season ticket holders will relinquish their season tickets, preferring instead - to become super-members/members. Reason being, is that I don''t think that there would a problem in obtaining casual tickets for their ''pick an'' choose'' Premiership games..... The demand for tickets for home games against the ''Top teams'' may see an uptake in demand for those games.....but, 8,000 extra seats for games against the less attractive opposition - and the way that the state of the economy is with continuous ever rising costs and expenses for more or less everything that has a price, (and that there doesn''t seem to be a hopeful and significant light at the end of the financial tunnel) may influence many supporters into making their decision to opt for a membership as opposed to purchasing a ST.

 

It''s only my personal opinion on the subject......but, individual and family financial sacrifices have to be made, disposable income will be limited for many - and who knows what can be predicted 2 or 3 seasons from now? Lambert and Co tempted and moving on? Players departing for pastures new, CE headhunted by bigger club offering a more attractive position elsewhere, and Directors & Board changes, etc etc....?

 

I do remain hopeful that the club will robustly lay the foundations for the future of NCFC with investment in the 1st team,  in city youth, and in the pursuit of substantial investors/future ownership - as our current benefactors will one day, move to one side and perhaps retire.

 

WE must not let the present impetus falter or fade.....as we all witnessed what occurred 3 seasons ago......Next time, we may not be so fortunate...

 

 

 

 

[/quote]I don''t think they''ll be that many.  Take the price of a game with a base value of £45 compare that with your ST price average per game.  IMO you''d have more money than sense.