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How far can NCFC go as a club?

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There is an interesting debate on TalkSPORT about the demise of Liverpool and what they need to do to get back to their ''glory days''. Now I am not for one minute putting us on the same level as Liverpool FC but it did get me thinking about how we can continue to improve and prosper.Is money the only thing that a club needs to improve? It is to become a club reguarly challenging for titles in this country. Obviously the top 5 (United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Citeh and Spurs) are where they are, because they have lots of money at their disposal but - and this is where LFC comes in- we could finish above the Red half of merseyside this season despite them spending more than £100m. We spent £10 million in the summer (ballpark figure) which is roughly 10 % of what the Reds spent (on the basis that all figures are correct). There is one main reason as to why we''re doing so well. Paul Lambert.Over the last 2 years we''ve accelerated at such a rate that has taken all us by suprise and we currently sit comfortably mid table. Lambert comes across as the sort of man who is incredibly driven and I think that we could easily become a club, under him, that finishes in 6th/7th and 8th year in and year out. The players we have signed are ''lower league gems'' and while this is no bad thing I feel that the calibre of players might have to improve so that we can continue to grow and establish ourselves. I dont for one minute believe that we can become a regular Champions League club without significant investment and I dont think that is necessarily a bad thing. I''m sure we''d all be delighted with finishes of 7th and 8th every season (heck we could finish in those sports this season) and that might be ''ceiling hit'' from our point view.We''re in a particularly special time as a club and I just hope that when Lambert eventually leaves we dont fall back into the old depths of despair that we have experienced only 2 short years ago.Your thoughts please Canary people?`

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Excellent post.I think we will spend quite a bit this summer, afterall we will be getting another 40mill from the honey pot, so surely we can spend say 15mill of that this year and build on what we have got, but we probably need to be spending 5mill P/Player this time to Improve the squad so we can add 3 players and perhaps a gamble on someone unproven from say league 1 and let a couple of players go.With Lamberts track record the board will back him with the funds as long as it''s sensible and doesn''t put our standing at risk.

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Realistically we are never going to break into the top 5.

 

 

I guess we could achieve a Europa Place at some point, but many on here dont want that.

 

 

If we become a established Premier League side I guess we could put more emphasis on the Cup competitions.

 

 

I was really dissapointed we didnt go for the FA Cup this year, as with a few of the big boys out, we will probably never have a better chance.

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I reluctantly have to agree with the view that there is only so far we can go. Having said that, it''s surely better to hit the ''ceiling'' rather than being at the bottom.It will be interesting (with the benefit of hind sight) to look back at this season to see if it''s a ''fluke'' season.To describe it a ''fluke'' is the wrong word as we have a talented manager, set of players and a board with nous but I sometimes feel that the euphoria of two successive promotions has played a big part. Next season will be huge. If it plays out like this one then we''ll be well on the way to becoming an established premier league club (again).

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How far can NCFC go as a club -

 

Established top flight club playing in a 35-40,000 capacity stadium averaging 33,000+ crowds, with a team full of internationals and getting into European competition occasionally!

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I think Lambert can do something similar to Moyes at Everton.

We are big club twelfth best support in the country, It''s about time were back in the Premier league where we belong. Constant top ten finishes is achievable under Lambert. We don''t need these big wages and big name players that under perform at these so called big clubs. Lord Lambert will do it his way and find these gems like Moyes has done. A champions league campaign will not be out of the question in about five years when we have more money, like Everton have done. Sustaining that will be very hard. But we are a better run club than Everton so we should be able to pay off our debt and gradually earn money, also with the 35,000 stadium coming soon. Lambert will stay, because a club of Norwich''s size can match Lord Lamberts aims and ambitions.

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We can go as far as we did last time because we aimed too low.

 

We can go as far as Portsmouth - because we''d be aiming too high.

 

We can certainly go as far as Fulham and Stoke. If we do this I would be happy to see my Club financially secure with an improved capacity; and if we can improve the capacity to 32,000 to 35,000 and fill it we can go as far as an Everton.

 

There are lots of targets to aim for. I believe next season is potentially tougher to survive but if we do we should by then have a squad in place to stay for a third. Stay for a third and the capacity increases and there will be a challenge to stay up while we re-build - as Wolves will tell you.

 

These are the acheivable targets; anything else is beyond expectations, but with Lambert in charge who knows?

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Anyone listen to Butler the other week saying we are a big club and should be here in the prem?

He is spot on.

I totally agree with most people though, what ever happens it will have been an incredible season and can''t wait for the next one. But we should not rest on this though.

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[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]

We can go as far as we did last time because we aimed too low.

 

We can go as far as Portsmouth - because we''d be aiming too high.

 

We can certainly go as far as Fulham and Stoke. If we do this I would be happy to see my Club financially secure with an improved capacity; and if we can improve the capacity to 32,000 to 35,000 and fill it we can go as far as an Everton.

 

There are lots of targets to aim for. I believe next season is potentially tougher to survive but if we do we should by then have a squad in place to stay for a third. Stay for a third and the capacity increases and there will be a challenge to stay up while we re-build - as Wolves will tell you.

 

These are the acheivable targets; anything else is beyond expectations, but with Lambert in charge who knows?

[/quote]

Spot on.

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We all appear to be on the same wave lengths on this thread. That doesnt really suprise me.Everton, Stoke and Fulham are clubs that we should clearly looking to follow. Look how far we''ve come from the ''let''s all do a Charlton'' days [;)]Allow me to take this thread off topic slightly as I have fears about all of those clubs.Everton: when Moyes leaves (as all managers will do eventually) there will be doubts about whether or not they can maintain the exceptionally high standards unless they employ another great manager. Nothing to suggest they wont of course, the lack of money continues to be a talking point mind.Stoke: I really really do not want to become a Stoke. Their fans are great and they''ve achieved some fantastic things since their promotion to the Premiership. I hate their style of football (effective though it may be) and Tony Pulis is a big reason as to why they play the way they do. They have some wealthy backers as well I believe- The Coates family (could have their name completely wrong) has been pumping money into them, that cannot carry on forever. Fulham: without Al Fayed they would be up s*** creek. Have done well to establish themselves though, great players and manager.I think the thing that sets us apart from the 3 mentioned clubs is that our board has aims to make us self sustainable. I went to the supporters forum which took place in October or November of last year and the main thing I remember from that occasion is McNally setting out the aims and ambitions of this club. Increased capacity, self sustainabilty and constant premier league football.Get through next year and the sky, never mind the ceiling is the limit for me. We have so much potential here, Lambert would be a fool to leave.I''m sure Mr Lambert wouldnt want anyone to think he''s a fool now?!

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A top ten club with the odd cup run. There is only so far Lambert''s magic can take us, the days when a club of our stature (By this I mean relative wealth) can finish anywhere near the top 4 have gone. You only have to look at the likes of Everton as an example, they have had Premiership money and great crowds for years, coupled with a manager I rate highly, and yet they still underachieve in the eyes of a lot of their fans.The cups will be our glory until the big money backers get bored of their Premier league toys and take their money elsewhere, and the playing field is slightly more level.

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[quote user="morty"]A top ten club with the odd cup run. There is only so far Lambert''s magic can take us, the days when a club of our stature (By this I mean relative wealth) can finish anywhere near the top 4 have gone. You only have to look at the likes of Everton as an example, they have had Premiership money and great crowds for years, coupled with a manager I rate highly, and yet they still underachieve in the eyes of a lot of their fans.The cups will be our glory until the big money backers get bored of their Premier league toys and take their money elsewhere, and the playing field is slightly more level.[/quote]That is a very interesting point you make [Y]The footballing authorities have been banging on about their desire to make football ''financially fair''. I wont waste my breath waiting for that to happen... BUT if it were to happen I think McNally''s aim of Norwich City becoming a self-sustainable club would mean that we could take advantage of others who might suffer.I''ve not got enough knowledge about footballing economics (I''ll wait for Purple to turn up) so I cant go into this in enough detail sadly but surely the likes of Manchester City and Chelski (sugar daddy) and United with their eye watering levels of debt are simply not sustainable football- and more importantly now, business model.I seem to recall a programme presented by Lord Sugar on the beeb where he said ''if football was to come into existence today we wouldnt have as many clubs as we do now''. If the relevant authorities stick to their words, we could be ready to pounce.I wait with baited breath.

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[quote user="Shaker Maker"][quote user="morty"]A top ten club with the odd cup run. There is only so far Lambert''s magic can take us, the days when a club of our stature (By this I mean relative wealth) can finish anywhere near the top 4 have gone. You only have to look at the likes of Everton as an example, they have had Premiership money and great crowds for years, coupled with a manager I rate highly, and yet they still underachieve in the eyes of a lot of their fans.The cups will be our glory until the big money backers get bored of their Premier league toys and take their money elsewhere, and the playing field is slightly more level.[/quote]That is a very interesting point you make [Y]The footballing authorities have been banging on about their desire to make football ''financially fair''. I wont waste my breath waiting for that to happen... BUT if it were to happen I think McNally''s aim of Norwich City becoming a self-sustainable club would mean that we could take advantage of others who might suffer.I''ve not got enough knowledge about footballing economics (I''ll wait for Purple to turn up) so I cant go into this in enough detail sadly but surely the likes of Manchester City and Chelski (sugar daddy) and United with their eye watering levels of debt are simply not sustainable football- and more importantly now, business model.I seem to recall a programme presented by Lord Sugar on the beeb where he said ''if football was to come into existence today we wouldnt have as many clubs as we do now''. If the relevant authorities stick to their words, we could be ready to pounce.I wait with baited breath.[/quote]It won''t happen. Ever.Football has become such a massive business, mainly due to Sky money, that no one wants to rock the boat. I don''t actually know, but it wouldn''t surprise me if the FA benefit from Sky money in some way, so they are unlikely to bite the hand that feeds them.No one is going to say "Sorry Man Utd, because you are xxx million in debt you can''t play here anymore"So it will go on, you only have to look at the squad cap ruling recently to see how that turned into a fiasco, Arsenal managed to register over 50 players! We will find our level and have to be happy with it, theres a lot of fans that are going to have to temper their expectations with a little reality.

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It is not necessarily the money spent but how it is spent. Despite the over excited squeaks we don''t need an ''hinestor''. The club is in the word. If they are investing then that is with a return on that investment. Therefore if there is a return to be nmade then we can do it under our own steam and so dictate the terms.There is too much money sloshing about and too many dodgy foreigners and even ddgy locals (know wot I mean ''arry) to let the club become a money laundering front. Which i suspect is the cause of the demise of a number of clubs - most certainly Portsmouth. "that we can become a regular Champions League club"If you become a Champions League club once, then the likelihood is that increased income will help towards further ventures.I presume ''how far'' is not simply limited to how far up the table we can rise. The current model has demonstrated how a well run club (that is fiercely driven) can progress. The foundations have been laid down, more so with the upgraded acadamy. This is stuff that will show results much further down the line. We should be pretty much debt free come the end of next season, which is a massive achievement and standing when you consider there''s every possibility that Bolton will go down with debts in excess of £110M !These are two very positive steps forward.As to much beyond the next season or two who knows, because none of us knows how football finances will pan out. There''s certainly a fair bit of unrest regarding the English leagues and the horrendous levels off debt they are carrying. especially when it is set against possible new rules that will stop ''football debts'' being paid first. If those rules are implemented it could collapse the whole game very quickly, because not only would it mean that anyone owed money by big clubs going into administration would have to queue up with everyone else (as would players) but that many clubs would be wary of selling players to clubs on a staggered payment basis.I''m sure this is focussing the minds of the board so it will be a case of steady as she goes and lets see where we are in two or three years time. In the mean time I am more concerned with how far we can go this season, because that will be a strong determinant to next season. Staying up gives us £3.2m (17th place) where as far as we can go this season is probably 7th, which is £11.2m prize money. Anyone think that extra £8m might help over the summer - if so lets give it our all over the next eight games.

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You''ve mentioned the issue of future football finances City 1st, would you mind answering a burning question I have please?I started this thread with the fragile future of football in mind.How do you see City coping with a financial implosion in the world game? I would feel extremely confident (assuming we keep the same board and management staff) that although it would be tough to begin with that we would emerge from the disaster (nobody knows whats going to happen as has been established) as better off than those dependent on sugar daddys. It says an awful lot that despite giving us £12 million (although some dispute this [;)]) Delia bless her has had her input dwarfed by 2 seasons (this season and next) in the premier league.

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Lambert with us reminds me of Ferguson at Aberdeen.  He will one day leave for another club but while he is here anything is possible.  Everton first, then Arsenal will be the clubs to aspire too.  Lambert has harmonized the club and established a culture, the squad will strengthen then the consistency and quality will come.

Silverware is difficult to predict because of the priority that Managers / players put on the Premiership.  Europa Cup certainly possible in the next couple of seasons and in the long term Champions League is possible.  Lambert is going places, let''s hope he takes us with him!!!

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Liverpool need to do what United have done in years, and what Aresenal are starting to realise.... invest in youth.Liverpool have always been a team of marquee signings, big name foreign stars and more... football has moved on and money doesnt buy Success...Manchester united are the most succesful club in the land... go through the side in recent and there has been Evans, Scholes, Giggs, Fletcher, Beckham, Butt, Gary Neville, Phil Neville, Welbeck, many more we can name.Arsenals decline has been halted by the introduction of Wilshere, Ramsay, Gibbs, Wenger has finally seen how to bring in success....Liverpool and Chelsea are waning stars,... big clubs with money invested in youth development, only to spend countless more on Egos etc....Kenny Dalglish has recently stated he wont be throwing in young players and ruining them... one look at Manchester uniteds Trophy cabinet since 1992 indicates Kenny Dalglish is a fool... Chelski rely on an aging side, Terry, Drogba, Lampard, Cole, Czech... how many more years?and yet Abramovic will spend countless millions on "peak" players who are now at their best and about to wane.... Whilst Alex Ferguson laughs all the way to yet another trophy.....

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]Liverpool need to do what United have done in years, and what Aresenal are starting to realise.... invest in youth.Liverpool have always been a team of marquee signings, big name foreign stars and more... football has moved on and money doesnt buy Success...Manchester united are the most succesful club in the land... go through the side in recent and there has been Evans, Scholes, Giggs, Fletcher, Beckham, Butt, Gary Neville, Phil Neville, Welbeck, many more we can name.Arsenals decline has been halted by the introduction of Wilshere, Ramsay, Gibbs, Wenger has finally seen how to bring in success....Liverpool and Chelsea are waning stars,... big clubs with money invested in youth development, only to spend countless more on Egos etc....Kenny Dalglish has recently stated he wont be throwing in young players and ruining them... one look at Manchester uniteds Trophy cabinet since 1992 indicates Kenny Dalglish is a fool... Chelski rely on an aging side, Terry, Drogba, Lampard, Cole, Czech... how many more years?and yet Abramovic will spend countless millions on "peak" players who are now at their best and about to wane.... Whilst Alex Ferguson laughs all the way to yet another trophy.....

[/quote] I think Mancini might have something to say about that Jas [;)]I know that PL is credited with the revival of NCFC but as he often says ''it''s not about me''.  I think we''re beginning to see a plan for the future being put into place so that when PL does eventually leave, as sad and as gutted we''ll all be, I''m a lot more confident about the future without PL and I dont see any reason why a new manager couldnt achieve the same or even take us up a level.With the upgrade of our academy to ''grade 1'', the ambition to improve the capacity of FCR and the desire to make NCFC a self sustainable club i.e one that isnt dependent on a ''sugar daddy'' or ''sugar mummy'' if you include Delia, the future is looking good.The final position this season and surviving/doing the same next season could be crucial.

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I don''t think we can achieve a great deal more than we have already. I''m sure Hull, Ipswich and Reading fans were saying the same thing at the end of their first season and look what happened to them.

 

It would be fantastic to be as established as Everton, Villa, Fulham and Stoke and float between 8th and 15th depending on management and the relative strengths of the league but I think it''s more likely that we will sink back to the second tier at some point in the not too distant future - and no doubt bounce back again at some point!

 

 

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[quote user="morty"]A top ten club with the odd cup run. There is only so far Lambert''s magic can take us, the days when a club of our stature (By this I mean relative wealth) can finish anywhere near the top 4 have gone. You only have to look at the likes of Everton as an example, they have had Premiership money and great crowds for years, coupled with a manager I rate highly, and yet they still underachieve in the eyes of a lot of their fans.The cups will be our glory until the big money backers get bored of their Premier league toys and take their money elsewhere, and the playing field is slightly more level.[/quote]So how in front are Newcastle to us?  Seriously you really don''t think we can head the pack fighting for around 6th & 7th under Lambert.  Imo we can, if we invest a little more each year and improve.  Hell we''re not that far behind.

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A lot will depend on what happens this summer. We''ve still to see Ryan Bennett but I doubt PL would spend £3million on a player if he didnt rate him- one for next season.Howson has slotted in incredibly well - I''ve only been to two games that he''s played: Stoke and Wolves and I have been impressed both times. There are players who need to have their futures clarified but that will be sorted when we secure safety. I''m sure that PL has plans in place for the summer. Promises to be a good''un [Y]

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[quote user="The Pinkun Role Model"][quote user="morty"]A top ten club with the odd cup run. There is only so far Lambert''s magic can take us, the days when a club of our stature (By this I mean relative wealth) can finish anywhere near the top 4 have gone. You only have to look at the likes of Everton as an example, they have had Premiership money and great crowds for years, coupled with a manager I rate highly, and yet they still underachieve in the eyes of a lot of their fans.The cups will be our glory until the big money backers get bored of their Premier league toys and take their money elsewhere, and the playing field is slightly more level.[/quote]So how in front are Newcastle to us?  Seriously you really don''t think we can head the pack fighting for around 6th & 7th under Lambert.  Imo we can, if we invest a little more each year and improve.  Hell we''re not that far behind.[/quote]I think you only have to look at the kind of money they received for Carrol, and subsequent transfer fees they have paid out to answer that, and the fact they regularly pull in 40,000 plus fans. Yes, I think given enough time we could be on par with what they are achieving, and what their fans are expecting, but time isn''t on our side, I really don''t think we can grow quickly enough to continue to fulfil Lamberts ambition. We''re safe for now, as a real measure of his abilities will be how he manages the difficult second season, and if he can still progress at the rate he has been doing. If he has a good season next time then I really think the "bigger" clubs will be sniffing.

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Whenever Lambert leaves, he will leave us in a position where we will be able to attract top, top managers that our fans could only dream of in the past. Alan Curbishley. Adie Boothroyd, Steve Tilson, Paul Jewell are a few that spring to mind......[;)]

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]I think we have peaked.....and surprised a few others.....as well as ourselves.......[/quote]

This[;)]Enjoy it while it lasts.

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Some of the big clubs have enormous sales overseas, and some have their own TV channels, so in commercial terms it is difficult to see us matching them. If we had several years in Europe, and lost the "Little Old Norwich" image, perhaps we could get nearer to them in commercial income.

 

They have huge support, with fans going to home matches from all over the UK, and even Ireland. We have no massive housing areas around, and if we build to a 36,000 capacity, can you see us filling it every week, let alone the 50,000 or up to 70,000 the big five tend to get?

 

With a excellent manager and a few years of higher income, and a little bit of luck, we could scale the heights of Europe as we did before, but it is difficult to see us being up there for a period of years. Our only hope would be a shake up in football which didn''t leave a teams able to pay high wages to big squads, and high transfer fees, with a built in advantage.

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Paul Lambert might be incredibly happy here and might see us as a club with loads of potential.Whilst I agree that the big club ''lure'' could tempt PL away I dont think it''s always the case.I saw Hucks tweeting a few days ago, somebody had asked him about whether there was any truth in the rumour that he had turned down Liverpool. He confirmed yes.Now Hucks might be a one off but it might be the case that Lambo has fallen in love with the club, the area and the fans (except those moaning ninnies).To quote the Barclay he may have [8] ''picked his team and he fell in love and he just cant seem to get enough''.We can but hope. He could become a legend here, if he isnt already.

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