stadium expansion

Davo · May 16, 2012

Purple I know from experience of where I work that when we want to build new infrastructure we have to come up with multiple options. The reason for this is so that we can show that we have thought about multiple options before deciding on the one we want to carry forward. While I can imagine that this process is much simpilar for one building compared to something that that can run into 100''s of miles long.

Also there is a possibility they they could have got the UEA to provide an Environmental assessment due to the increased capacity.

Davo

Graham Paddons Beard · May 16, 2012

[quote user="Old Shuck"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]Whatever feasibility study he has asked the UEA to carry out, it will be connected with expansion at Carrow Road.[/quote]

I don''t get the logic of that. Has the UEA some particular expertise in stadium construction? It is famous for its climate research department and its creative writing centre, but building projects? If the club wanted a feasibiity study on expanding Carrow Road it would normally hire experts in the shape of a development/construction company. If it is involving the UEA I would have thought that is because moving there is an option (however unlikely) that is being considered by the club.

[/quote]

Yep, have to hold my hands up to that Purple, ill conceived and thought out response by self.

I really can''t see it happening-makes no sense at all. I guess, at a push, they will consider it just so they can rule it out. Can''t see it happening unless the financial side of it benefits the club in a way that is beyond generous-and thats not going to happen at the moment.

[/quote]

McNasty was very specific at the dinner on Monday. He said they had asked UEA to carry out a feasibilty study on the City Stand.

yellow blood · May 16, 2012

I seem to recall that when the road layout was changed around Carrow Road, the intention was for the City stand to be extended back into the roadway of Carrow Road itself.

Canary-N · May 16, 2012

UEA is nuts, you would have to arrange public transport or road infrustructure. This is very very expensive. For example Bluewater shopping center, gets around 80k visitors over a day, the transport infrastructure cost £500 million. The city of Norwich simply will not pay for that. What would happen would be a large stadium, without adequate methods to get there, and would mean less fans overall. It costs twice as much to drive, then add parking on top what a rip off visting NCFC would become. UEA would be a very bad move for fans

tom cavendish · May 16, 2012

[quote user="yellow blood"]

Far more houses "planned" for the Rackheath and North Eastern triangle area of Norwich than Hethersett plus the "planned" Northern Distributor Road so using your logic they should build there. Only problem is that houses will bring in more cash to BDC.

[/quote]A big advantage of a new stadium would be if it was to be built on UEA owned land so that NCFC didn''t have to purchase any land, plus NCFC could make a lot of money from the UEA using the car park and teaching space.

PurpleCanary · May 16, 2012

[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"][quote user="Old Shuck"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]Whatever feasibility study he has asked the UEA to carry out, it will be connected with expansion at Carrow Road.[/quote]

I don''t get the logic of that. Has the UEA some particular expertise in stadium construction? It is famous for its climate research department and its creative writing centre, but building projects? If the club wanted a feasibiity study on expanding Carrow Road it would normally hire experts in the shape of a development/construction company. If it is involving the UEA I would have thought that is because moving there is an option (however unlikely) that is being considered by the club.

[/quote]

Yep, have to hold my hands up to that Purple, ill conceived and thought out response by self.

I really can''t see it happening-makes no sense at all. I guess, at a push, they will consider it just so they can rule it out. Can''t see it happening unless the financial side of it benefits the club in a way that is beyond generous-and thats not going to happen at the moment.

[/quote]

McNasty was very specific at the dinner on Monday. He said they had asked UEA to carry out a feasibilty study on the City Stand.

[/quote]

GPB, if that is what he said then ignore my previous post! But any explanation as to why the UEA? Does it have some particular expertise in the subject of building sports stadia? A company that actually does that kind of thing would seem more logical.

PS for Morty. Sorry but for tax and national security reasons I''m afraid my location at any time has to remain secret...[:P]

tom cavendish · May 16, 2012

Canary-N wrote "UEA is nuts, you would have to arrange public transport or road infrustructure"

Nope, because the UEA is already very well served by regular bus routes from various parts of Norwich (and Norfolk).

tom cavendish · May 16, 2012

[quote user="Old Shuck"]

McNasty was very specific at the dinner on Monday. He said they had asked UEA to carry out a feasibilty study on the City Stand.

[/quote]He didn''t actually say that. He talked about how the corner infill would bring the capacity to 28,000 for next season, seemed unsure about how to increase beyond that because of the huge costs, but that the club needs a bigger capacity stadium and that the UEA are to undertake a feasibility study.

Chelmsford Canary · May 16, 2012

[quote user="Canary-N"]UEA is nuts, you would have to arrange public transport or road infrustructure. This is very very expensive. For example Bluewater shopping center, gets around 80k visitors over a day, the transport infrastructure cost £500 million. The city of Norwich simply will not pay for that. What would happen would be a large stadium, without adequate methods to get there, and would mean less fans overall. It costs twice as much to drive, then add parking on top what a rip off visting NCFC would become. UEA would be a very bad move for fans[/quote]

I agree the costs would be massive. My point is that there is something called a section 106 agreement.

If NCFC were to build new stand, then they would have to pay for any improvements to roads etc. Therefore not Norwich City Council

tom cavendish · May 16, 2012

[quote user="mikewalker"]

MENTAL

1. Teaching space, ie labs, lecture theatres, seminar rooms, etc do not fit well into the concourses of a football stadium. Teaching space is usually funded when the design is for actual dedicated teaching space. The UEA have to lease the space to the various schools and faculties, that could be quite a tough sell explaining why studies/exams/etc have to be cancelled due to a playoff final or reserve match

2. Have you even been to the UEA lately? You may have noticed that there are several green bits that do not have buildings on them. This isn''t because they''re waiting to build a football stadium on them, but due to the fact that NOTHING can be built on them due to planning/preservation status.

3. Have you ever been to Sparks In The Park? The fireworks display on Earlham Park next to UEA (not UEA land!) The congestion/carparking/general chaos is just once a year and barely tolerated by local residents. Can''t see 30,000+ people turning up in cars (because lets face it its not in the city and there''s only 1 bus route and 3 single roads in) going down well or running too smoothly. For a start there is no giant car park and building one would wipe out any hope the UEA has of ever reducing its carbon footprint (which is required for some elements of funding). Its just a no go.

4. Security. Imagine 6,000 away fans trampling over everything, chucking litter everywhere, nicking anything of opportunity, hassling students aots. You''d need to CCTV the entire place, have security Thats before we factor in our own support.

In summary, you''re a tit.

[/quote]Firstly, please try to stick to a debate without being personally abusive!1. Teaching space - see what is planned at the new UWE stadium in Bristol. It is to have a huge amount of teaching space.2. Land - UEA own lots of land and have the ability to purchase more. They are looking to expand the uni and they need more teaching space and car parking.3. Traffic - Football matches are held at the weekends, evenings, and bank holidays when the uni is little used. Tens of thousands of people use the UEA so the area can already cope. There are already very good and very regular bus routes from many parts of the city and Norfolk to the UEA. The roads around CR are clogged because the access is via 3 bridges and the stadium is next to a busy retail park and hundreds of flats. There are also going to be 100''s more flats next to the stadium. Don''t forget that NCFC have also sold a stadium carpark to a housing association. The area is going to become a congested nightmare particularly if the stadium capacity was increased to 35,000.4. Security - litter and crowd control are the norm around any stadium.

yellow blood · May 16, 2012

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="mikewalker"]

MENTAL

1. Teaching space, ie labs, lecture theatres, seminar rooms, etc do not fit well into the concourses of a football stadium. Teaching space is usually funded when the design is for actual dedicated teaching space. The UEA have to lease the space to the various schools and faculties, that could be quite a tough sell explaining why studies/exams/etc have to be cancelled due to a playoff final or reserve match

2. Have you even been to the UEA lately? You may have noticed that there are several green bits that do not have buildings on them. This isn''t because they''re waiting to build a football stadium on them, but due to the fact that NOTHING can be built on them due to planning/preservation status.

3. Have you ever been to Sparks In The Park? The fireworks display on Earlham Park next to UEA (not UEA land!) The congestion/carparking/general chaos is just once a year and barely tolerated by local residents. Can''t see 30,000+ people turning up in cars (because lets face it its not in the city and there''s only 1 bus route and 3 single roads in) going down well or running too smoothly. For a start there is no giant car park and building one would wipe out any hope the UEA has of ever reducing its carbon footprint (which is required for some elements of funding). Its just a no go.

4. Security. Imagine 6,000 away fans trampling over everything, chucking litter everywhere, nicking anything of opportunity, hassling students aots. You''d need to CCTV the entire place, have security Thats before we factor in our own support.

In summary, you''re a tit.

[/quote]

3. Traffic - Football matches are held at the weekends, evenings, and bank holidays when the uni is little used. Tens of thousands of people use the UEA so the area can already cope. There are already very good and very regular bus routes from many parts of the city and Norfolk to the UEA.

[/quote]

Bad at the times you have started the very good and very regular bus routes are not very regular.

Carrow Road is close to another form of public transport i.e. railway whereas anyone that travels by train would also have to catch a bus thereafter right across a busy city centre...unless you are now going to say that NCFC or UEA are going to fund a new rail line and station? Given that University entrants are reducing due to the increase in cost, I find it difficult to see how this would not become a white elephant on greenspace. You also fail to take into account that the current stadium is also used at other times of the day and for other non-footballing reasons. Where would the mormons hold their annual meeting? [:P]

TIL 1010 · May 16, 2012

[quote user="tom cavendish"]

More than 40,000 people attend and work at the UEA

[/quote]

How many are on site at any one time though ? Certainly absolutely nowhere near your figure so if we hold a match on a UEA working day we are looking at say 75,000 based on what you say which is totally ridiculous.

Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? · May 16, 2012

[quote user="tom cavendish"]McNally said at the POS night that the UEA have been asked about the feasibility of stadium expansion.

It seems as if he has read my suggestion that NCFC should look into a stadium partnership with the UEA.
[/quote]

It has nothing to do with a move to the UEA site.

Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? · May 16, 2012

[quote user="tom cavendish"]In the future, NCFC will be looking to attract a lot more fans from outside of Norwich towards Cambridge and King''s Lynn. A new stadium in the UEA area of Norwich would be good for attracting fans from those areas, particuly if there was a big new carpark. Another consideration is that the A11 is to be improved.

Not forgetting that the UEA is already very well connected for local bus routes.

There are also plans to vastly increase the number of houses in the Hethersett area etc.

[/quote]

You''re doing a good job at winding them up! Lol!

Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? · May 16, 2012

[quote user="Surfbird"]As a matter of interest I believe Colney was originally purchased with a new stadium in mind and a rail siding to link to the site.[/quote]

Think restricted planning ..........

Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? · May 16, 2012

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]

Having reflected on the UEA proposal I think it only slightly less ludicrous to move to the Olympic stadium and ground share with Leyton Orient. We could turn their stadium into a car park to service the UEA. With fast trains into/out of liverpool street (the carriages would make excellent labs/ teaching pods on non match days) and a huge catchment area in E London we''d be bound to attract more fans who care not a jot about the matchday experience but want to see their Manchester based team play live without having to fork out for a Sky subscription. We''d have the hardcore 3,000 away trippers from Norfolk plus 57,000 jellied eel eating locals shouting "On the ball Norwich Orient, never mind the journey". McNally would be mad to turn it down. I hear the two Bristol clubs might be considering it too................

[/quote]

[:D][:D] MEGA LOL!

grantroederdisaster · May 16, 2012

Tom Cavendish you should perhaps focus your energies and vivid imagination on writing comedy scripts, you''d make a fortune!

Like I said before, the board have investigated increasing the capacity of Carrow Road or moving and decided on the former because Carrow Roads in the perfect place in terms of transport links, nearby amenities and closeness to the City centre. The UEA is pig to get to from the City centre as it is without adding a 30,000+ capacity stadium to the campus and the Watton road from the A47 is overcrowded and slow. The number of buses needed to ferry supporters from the City centre and train station would have to quadruple from what currently run from these locations and this would further clog up the over conjested roads from the City Centre to the UEA. The current car park at the UEA struggles to cope with what is there now without matchday Saturdays/Sundays and odd Tuesdays when up to 30,000+ crowds would be coming to games. A 1500 crowd leaving a concert at the UEA creates ques from the carpark and nearby roads!

Where on the UEA site would a stadium be built anyway?

Certainly not on Earlham Park and nowhere else on the actual campus.

Like I and others have suggested before Tom, your ludicrous UEA idea is complete pie in the Sky and why move from Carrow Road when its in a perfect location?

priceyrice · May 16, 2012

Only read the last few pages on here but while Tom makes a good argument for moving a stadium to the UEA and there are obvious benefits, holding lectures, increase revenue from renting out spaces for bars and a shop, i think most people have pointed out the obvious problems, such as the transport links. Tom you say the uni has 40,000 attending it every day, how many of these do you actually think drive in? I am sure, similar to leeds uni, the majority of those people live nearby and either cycle or walk or take a bus, for a city match day there are many more people driving to the game, as i am sure you can tell when it can take up to an hour or more to get out of the city. another obvious problem is a lack of a major station at the UEA, not even sure if there is a small station in that area? This is amajor problem for both sets of fans who attend the game.A further problem is thr land around UEA, i am sure most of it is green belt land (i think that''s the term) and it cannot be built on.An obvious problem is obviously the cost of a new stadium. A new stand may set us back 20m, a new stadium is going to be easily in the three figures. The emirates cost 400 m to build and the costs are always spiraling out of control. You mention how we wouldn''t need to buy the land (if you could even build on it), firstly i don''t understand why, there is no way the uni would want the stadium there, and secondly, buying the land is not the major cost in building a stadium, its a very minute part of it.Also wondering, how much do you think we could sell the land at carrow rd for, i know we have sold most of the land around it, but i don''t think we got more than 12M for the largest land sale, so i don''t see the price of carrow rd being anything fantastic, despite the fact it could increase that area of the city as a shopping district, perhaps it could also save the street with the Odean and hollywood bowl on, the bars and restaurants on there are constantly being re-leased and failing

morty · May 16, 2012

Leave the frigging stadium where it is![8o|]

tom cavendish · May 16, 2012

[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

1. The current car park at the UEA struggles to cope with what is there now without matchday Saturdays/Sundays and odd Tuesdays when up to 30,000+ crowds would be coming to games. A 1500 crowd leaving a concert at the UEA creates ques from the carpark and nearby roads!

2. Where on the UEA site would a stadium be built anyway?

Certainly not on Earlham Park and nowhere else on the actual campus.

3. Why move from Carrow Road when its in a perfect location?

[/quote]1. Precisely! There would be a new car park which the UEA want and need

and would pay to use, so earning the club a lot of money.

2. The UEA are looking to expand.

3a. Money - it could be more cost effective to move to a new stadium on UEA owned land.

3b. Don''t forget that there are to be 100''s more flats built right next to CR

and that the car park behind the Jarrold Stand has been sold to a

housing association. If CR is expanded to 35k then the congestion around

the stadium will be dreadful when all the housing has been built and with

the loss of car parking.

Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? · May 16, 2012

I note you still haven''t said where on the UEA site you would locate your proposed stadium or the new car park.

tom cavendish · May 16, 2012

[quote user="priceyrice"]1. You mention how we wouldn''t need to buy the land (if you could even build on it), firstly i don''t understand why, there is no way the uni would want the stadium there, and secondly, buying the land is not the major cost in building a stadium, its a very minute part of it.2. Also wondering, how much do you think we could sell the land at carrow rd for, i know we have sold most of the land around it, but i don''t think we got more than 12M for the largest land sale, so i don''t see the price of carrow rd being anything fantastic, despite the fact it could increase that area of the city as a shopping district, perhaps it could also save the street with the Odean and hollywood bowl on, the bars and restaurants on there are constantly being re-leased and failing[/quote]1.

The UEA are looking to expand. They would want to lease teaching space

at the stadium on a long-lease. They also need a new car park and they

could lease the one at a UEA stadium. This is what is planned for the

UWE stadium in Bristol. The value could be in the region of tens of millions of pounds.

That is why I think the club should look to seek a partnership with the

UEA to incorporate teaching space either within a huge new stand at CR

or a new stadium on UEA land. A large part of the costs could then be

covered by the UEA.

Also, don''t forget that the UEA run the Norwich Waterfornt on Kings St

because they like to have a presence in the city, so surely they would

be interested in a new stand at CR.

2. It is probably worth about £20m-£30m to a supermarket etc, but could

be worth a lot more to Ikea. Ikea could look to build a car park below

and at ground level with a store on top to the height of the existing

stadium. That would probably get planning permission at that location.

Also consider that Ikea do want to have a store in the East.

Like I say, using the Bristol UWE funding example, it is in the

interests of the club to involve the UEA in either a new stand at CR or a

new stadium on UEA owned land. NCFC can make a lot more money leasing

space for teaching students than if it was used as office space.

Mister Chops · May 16, 2012

I''m all for getting the UAE involved, there''s a lot of money in that oil rich part of the world. Aren''t they already bankrolling Arsenal though?

PurpleCanary · May 16, 2012

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

I note you still haven''t said where on the UEA site you would locate your proposed stadium or the new car park.

[/quote]

I try not to do personal stuff but cannot resist pointing out the hilarious irony of Tangible complaining about another poster not answering a question...[:D][:P][:D]

morty · May 16, 2012

Ooh, he does go on a bit,

TIL 1010 · May 16, 2012

Repeating yourself still will not get you an answer Lapp.

Essex Canary · May 17, 2012

There''s no need for a new stadium at any point in the future. Carrow Road is a tidy ground with a lot of character, good facilities, a great location and plenty of room for expansion. Any new stadium would end up as a decent but characterless, out of town, identitkit modern stadium like so many others (Reading, Leicester, Derby, Coventry, Milton Keynes, Colchester and so on.) We all agree that Carrow Road needs to be expanded, but it''s probably just as well to wait for another season in the Prem before we take the plunge. We don''t want to end up with an Ipswich-style half empty stadium. I think that Norwich will never be able to attract bigger crowds than 35,000, not unless we win trophies and some rich Sheik buys the club. NCFC has a wide catchment area it''s true, but the city itself is not massive. The City Stand is the obvious choice to redevelop.

Bill · July 4, 2014

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="priceyrice"]1. You mention how we wouldn''t need to buy the land (if you could even build on it), firstly i don''t understand why, there is no way the uni would want the stadium there, and secondly, buying the land is not the major cost in building a stadium, its a very minute part of it.2. Also wondering, how much do you think we could sell the land at carrow rd for, i know we have sold most of the land around it, but i don''t think we got more than 12M for the largest land sale, so i don''t see the price of carrow rd being anything fantastic, despite the fact it could increase that area of the city as a shopping district, perhaps it could also save the street with the Odean and hollywood bowl on, the bars and restaurants on there are constantly being re-leased and failing[/quote]1.