Johnson

[The DicTaTor 0]

[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="The DicTaTor"]More insults Webbo?His Excellency Admiral General Aladeen admires your spunky attitude. He says that if your level of oppresive behaviour continues then you should be awarded the PU Offensive Medal Service Ribbon and your promotion up the ranks awaits. Keep up the good work, the Republic of Wadiya salutes you![/quote]

May I personally welcome you to the Forum. You''re obviously going to be a major asset.

[/quote]Thank you. Praise indeed from such an acclaimed critique!

[he 0]

In general the whole team played brilliant. They matched utd and was unlucky not to get a point. Should also have won a pen because of handball. But as mentioned In this thread and I have also mentioned it before, BJ don''t have Premier League quality. He started not so bad, but he has been surprisingly slow in tight situations and in general he is lacking a lot of qualities required to play regularly in the top half of the Premier League. Slow on the ball, lose possession in dangerous positions. To play him against the utd-midfield was quite a gamble. He is strong, but the problem is that he don''t get close enough to them to take the ball except when he tackled them to hard.

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

His limitations have become more noticeable of late. Particularly his first touch & composure when under pressure, he looks a tidy player when given time to get his head up but he''s not going to get it.

I appreciate his game isn''t about his ability on the ball but as a central midfield he needs to offer more because its stifling the side. I called for a more rounded holding player prior to January & although Howson has come in he generally plays further up the field.

[sgncfc 1,221]

[quote user="hels"]In general the whole team played brilliant. They matched utd and was unlucky not to get a point. Should also have won a pen because of handball. But as mentioned In this thread and I have also mentioned it before, BJ don''t have Premier League quality. He started not so bad, but he has been surprisingly slow in tight situations and in general he is lacking a lot of qualities required to play regularly in the top half of the Premier League. Slow on the ball, lose possession in dangerous positions. To play him against the utd-midfield was quite a gamble. He is strong, but the problem is that he don''t get close enough to them to take the ball except when he tackled them to hard.[/quote]

I know you lot don''t want to let facts get in the way of a good moan but can I just point out the following:

1. Johnson took Nani out of the game, who up to that point was causing havoc - had created one goal already and set up another chance. Without Johnson we could have been three down before we got to grips with the game (anyone remember 1993 when that''s exactly what did happen?)

2. It was Fox who didn''t track Scholes for the first goal.

3. It was Hoolahan who stopped running with Giggs for the second goal. It was Wilbraham who failed to stop Evra getting the ball wide to Young. It was Naughton who failed to close Young down for the cross. And it was Ruddy who didn''t move quickly enough to cover his near post.

4. It was Holt who didn''t lay the ball off to Bennett and instead tried to flick it over his head just after we''d equalised.

You see, we can blame anyone if we want to. My point is that this is a team game. We need to stop singling players out for criticism and trust our management team to know a lot more about it than we do. Surman, Morison, Wilby, now Johnson.

We stood toe to toe with the Champions in a game which could have gone either way. Fantastic performance; fantastic game. Bring on Liverpool and Man City to Carrow Road - I for one can''t wait.

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="sgncfc"]

[quote user="hels"]In general the whole team played brilliant. They matched utd and was unlucky not to get a point. Should also have won a pen because of handball. But as mentioned In this thread and I have also mentioned it before, BJ don''t have Premier League quality. He started not so bad, but he has been surprisingly slow in tight situations and in general he is lacking a lot of qualities required to play regularly in the top half of the Premier League. Slow on the ball, lose possession in dangerous positions. To play him against the utd-midfield was quite a gamble. He is strong, but the problem is that he don''t get close enough to them to take the ball except when he tackled them to hard.[/quote]

I know you lot don''t want to let facts get in the way of a good moan but can I just point out the following:

1. Johnson took Nani out of the game, who up to that point was causing havoc - had created one goal already and set up another chance. Without Johnson we could have been three down before we got to grips with the game (anyone remember 1993 when that''s exactly what did happen?)

2. It was Fox who didn''t track Scholes for the first goal.

3. It was Hoolahan who stopped running with Giggs for the second goal. It was Wilbraham who failed to stop Evra getting the ball wide to Young. It was Naughton who failed to close Young down for the cross. And it was Ruddy who didn''t move quickly enough to cover his near post.

4. It was Holt who didn''t lay the ball off to Bennett and instead tried to flick it over his head just after we''d equalised.

You see, we can blame anyone if we want to. My point is that this is a team game. We need to stop singling players out for criticism and trust our management team to know a lot more about it than we do. Surman, Morison, Wilby, now Johnson.

We stood toe to toe with the Champions in a game which could have gone either way. Fantastic performance; fantastic game. Bring on Liverpool and Man City to Carrow Road - I for one can''t wait.

[/quote]

Exactly and completely correct. Were truer words ever written?

[grefstad 0]

And you are precisely echoing my point.

Johnson is doing too much "allround-midfielding", when his limitations is such that he should really only do the dirty stuff (harassing, tackling, pressing).

Instead he is trying to be tidy, lurking around with no real intensity (watch him next time, he is mostly jogging around).

We need an intimidating midfielder at times, and we have not got any. I want  a Damien Francis, Dickson Etuhu type of player, who can win a few headers in midfield, make a tackle, and in general make his presence felt.

Johnson is not doing this at the moment, and therefore I feel it is justified to call for another head to fill his position.

Now, I would assume Lambert was expecting more of a tackling game from Johnson than what he got from him vs Man U. Given Fox and Johnson was paired in central midfield, it is fair to assume one of them would do the dirty work, the other  feed off the scraps and pass the ball (Fox). Now, as the game progressed, I could infact witness Fox being more stuck in than Johnson ever was (the yellow card incident apart).

[star_manic 0]

[quote user="Webbo118"][quote user="sgncfc"]

[quote user="hels"]In general the whole team played brilliant. They matched utd and was unlucky not to get a point. Should also have won a pen because of handball. But as mentioned In this thread and I have also mentioned it before, BJ don''t have Premier League quality. He started not so bad, but he has been surprisingly slow in tight situations and in general he is lacking a lot of qualities required to play regularly in the top half of the Premier League. Slow on the ball, lose possession in dangerous positions. To play him against the utd-midfield was quite a gamble. He is strong, but the problem is that he don''t get close enough to them to take the ball except when he tackled them to hard.[/quote]

I know you lot don''t want to let facts get in the way of a good moan but can I just point out the following:

1. Johnson took Nani out of the game, who up to that point was causing havoc - had created one goal already and set up another chance. Without Johnson we could have been three down before we got to grips with the game (anyone remember 1993 when that''s exactly what did happen?)

2. It was Fox who didn''t track Scholes for the first goal.

3. It was Hoolahan who stopped running with Giggs for the second goal. It was Wilbraham who failed to stop Evra getting the ball wide to Young. It was Naughton who failed to close Young down for the cross. And it was Ruddy who didn''t move quickly enough to cover his near post.

4. It was Holt who didn''t lay the ball off to Bennett and instead tried to flick it over his head just after we''d equalised.

You see, we can blame anyone if we want to. My point is that this is a team game. We need to stop singling players out for criticism and trust our management team to know a lot more about it than we do. Surman, Morison, Wilby, now Johnson.

We stood toe to toe with the Champions in a game which could have gone either way. Fantastic performance; fantastic game. Bring on Liverpool and Man City to Carrow Road - I for one can''t wait.

[/quote]

Exactly and completely correct. Were truer words ever written?

[/quote]............if you don''t stop talking truth and sense you will find yourself banned. how dare you sir, and not an insult in sight. if i was your teacher i would write "must do better" on your report.

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="star_manic"][quote user="Webbo118"][quote user="sgncfc"]

[quote user="hels"]In general the whole team played brilliant. They matched utd and was unlucky not to get a point. Should also have won a pen because of handball. But as mentioned In this thread and I have also mentioned it before, BJ don''t have Premier League quality. He started not so bad, but he has been surprisingly slow in tight situations and in general he is lacking a lot of qualities required to play regularly in the top half of the Premier League. Slow on the ball, lose possession in dangerous positions. To play him against the utd-midfield was quite a gamble. He is strong, but the problem is that he don''t get close enough to them to take the ball except when he tackled them to hard.[/quote]

I know you lot don''t want to let facts get in the way of a good moan but can I just point out the following:

1. Johnson took Nani out of the game, who up to that point was causing havoc - had created one goal already and set up another chance. Without Johnson we could have been three down before we got to grips with the game (anyone remember 1993 when that''s exactly what did happen?)

2. It was Fox who didn''t track Scholes for the first goal.

3. It was Hoolahan who stopped running with Giggs for the second goal. It was Wilbraham who failed to stop Evra getting the ball wide to Young. It was Naughton who failed to close Young down for the cross. And it was Ruddy who didn''t move quickly enough to cover his near post.

4. It was Holt who didn''t lay the ball off to Bennett and instead tried to flick it over his head just after we''d equalised.

You see, we can blame anyone if we want to. My point is that this is a team game. We need to stop singling players out for criticism and trust our management team to know a lot more about it than we do. Surman, Morison, Wilby, now Johnson.

We stood toe to toe with the Champions in a game which could have gone either way. Fantastic performance; fantastic game. Bring on Liverpool and Man City to Carrow Road - I for one can''t wait.

[/quote]

Exactly and completely correct. Were truer words ever written?

[/quote]............if you don''t stop talking truth and sense you will find yourself banned. how dare you sir, and not an insult in sight. if i was your teacher i would write "must do better" on your report.[/quote]

I keep reading on this Forum "everyone is entitled to an opinion". I assume the word "everyone" includes me, so I will always give my opinion honestly. It someone is writing rubbish, as is sometimes the case in my opinion, I will say so. If that causes upset, that is really not my concern. Equally, if someone writes something that I agree with, again, I will say so. 

[ZLF 271]

[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="hels"]

2. It was Fox who didn''t track Scholes for the first goal.

3. It was Hoolahan who stopped running with Giggs for the second goal.>

[/quote]

Exactly and completely correct. Were truer words ever written?

[/quote]

Nearly but not quite

1 Fox did track scholes into the box, but was then guilty of ball watching as scholes should great awareness and movement to stop, tale a couple of steps back as fox carried on running, tracking no one, 80% good tracking from fox, done by a class goal scoring midfielder who used his experience to create some space.

2. Wes'' problem was not that he stopped running, it was he was guilty of of failing to react quickly enough to both scholes and giggs being unmarked on the edge of the box, once he was aware of the danger he didnt stop running, well until the ball hit the back of the net. I do think Zak and drury could also have dealt with the cross better.

So yes, probably truer words were spoken.

No Johnson was not at fault to blame or scapegoated for either goal, its just that his performance was not as good as his colleagues overall imo.

[star_manic 0]

[quote user="Webbo118"][quote user="star_manic"][quote user="Webbo118"][quote user="sgncfc"]

[quote user="hels"]In general the whole team played brilliant. They matched utd and was unlucky not to get a point. Should also have won a pen because of handball. But as mentioned In this thread and I have also mentioned it before, BJ don''t have Premier League quality. He started not so bad, but he has been surprisingly slow in tight situations and in general he is lacking a lot of qualities required to play regularly in the top half of the Premier League. Slow on the ball, lose possession in dangerous positions. To play him against the utd-midfield was quite a gamble. He is strong, but the problem is that he don''t get close enough to them to take the ball except when he tackled them to hard.[/quote]

I know you lot don''t want to let facts get in the way of a good moan but can I just point out the following:

1. Johnson took Nani out of the game, who up to that point was causing havoc - had created one goal already and set up another chance. Without Johnson we could have been three down before we got to grips with the game (anyone remember 1993 when that''s exactly what did happen?)

2. It was Fox who didn''t track Scholes for the first goal.

3. It was Hoolahan who stopped running with Giggs for the second goal. It was Wilbraham who failed to stop Evra getting the ball wide to Young. It was Naughton who failed to close Young down for the cross. And it was Ruddy who didn''t move quickly enough to cover his near post.

4. It was Holt who didn''t lay the ball off to Bennett and instead tried to flick it over his head just after we''d equalised.

You see, we can blame anyone if we want to. My point is that this is a team game. We need to stop singling players out for criticism and trust our management team to know a lot more about it than we do. Surman, Morison, Wilby, now Johnson.

We stood toe to toe with the Champions in a game which could have gone either way. Fantastic performance; fantastic game. Bring on Liverpool and Man City to Carrow Road - I for one can''t wait.

[/quote]

Exactly and completely correct. Were truer words ever written?

[/quote]............if you don''t stop talking truth and sense you will find yourself banned. how dare you sir, and not an insult in sight. if i was your teacher i would write "must do better" on your report.[/quote]

I keep reading on this Forum "everyone is entitled to an opinion". I assume the word "everyone" includes me, so I will always give my opinion honestly. It someone is writing rubbish, as is sometimes the case in my opinion, I will say so. If that causes upset, that is really not my concern. Equally, if someone writes something that I agree with, again, I will say so. 

[/quote].............sorry webbo but it seems you don''t understand irony. i was, in fact praising you for fair and impartial assessment and not resorting to petty insults.[:D][:D][:D]

 

[grefstad 0]

Time to bump this thread, and my go at Johnson seems to be more actual than ever.

Poor again vs Stoke, no prescence, no tackling, no nothing.

Yes, I am a Johnson doubter, because he offer us nothing else than what we have already got. Infact, I feel tiny Fox is a better tackler/ball winner than Johnson currently is.

It is no coincidence that a player like Crofts have been out of the team for most of the season.

His lack of close control and skill cost us too many ball losses during a game, and in the Premier you can spend 5 mins chasing shadows if you lose the ball easily.

Now, Johnson is the same liability. Useful on the ball when he has got time and space. He can pick a 30m pass sometimes, but more often than not his passing is just sideway and very often backwards. No penetration, no determination, no nothing.

So what does he really offer us?

Tackling? Tireless effective running, resulting in pressure which forces the oppositon to lose the ball? Smart use of the ball attacking wise, or even defensively? Can he shoot from distance with a reasonable accuracy? Can he head it? Does he have any pace to talk about? Any strength or presence about him?

The answerrs to the above is in my opinion a pretty clear NO, and I believe and hope we will see little of Bradley Johnson in the 10 last rounds of this season.

[CDMullins 436]

I quite like BJ so this isnt player bashing at all, I feel ''safer'' with him in the side.

 

But BJ''s problem is...... He thinks is is too much of a player

 

He is in the side to be an ugly player, to protect the back 4, to break the oppositions play down, to win the 50-50 balls in the middle of the park.

 

Instead, he tries running the midfield, playing killer balls and shooting from any old distance, Often givig the ball away and meaning he is out of position.

 

BJ should be getting the ball, give to fox, get the ball give it fox. If he this this we''d have a proper little Makelele

[Bovril 219]

Makelele is seen as the cream of the crop in this position but don''t forget that this position (and just why Makelele was initially underated) requires a competent passer.

If Fox was built a big stockier (he''s not the worst tackler) then he would be superb in this position.

[grefstad 0]

Yep. You may start to wonder if all the England call-up talk in August/September affected him and turned his head.

Suddenly he did everything more difficult, instead of keeping it simple. Johnson is no Zidane, he is currently no Makelele either, but he may be a poor man''s Essien, if he sticks to the simple tasks he has been given.

For me, Johnson is one of this seasons big disappointments. Him and Crofts.

[CDMullins 436]

Dissapointment is harsh,

 

He cost nothing, he''s never played in this division and the fact that an England call up was mentioned, shows he must have done alright.

[grefstad 0]

Cost nothing? I assume he is getting paid, and probably a more then decent salary given he was on a Bosman. I expect more from a professional footballer. More effort at least. I can tolerate he is not the best midfielder around, but his efforts is not good enough.

Looks like he does not give a damn, and is just waiting for his end-of-season bonus for staying up.

[JamesOL 0]

Did Johnson ever make the long list for England? I think he''s been very poor, passing hasn''t been great, not particularly creative and seems to smash it over the bar a lot which is. Trait I dislike in any player! Would have tO agree that him and Crofts have not showered themselves in glory this season

[Jacko 0]

Don''t know where the Bradley Johnson from the start of the season has gone to be honest. I saw a midfielder with a great engine who covered a lot of ground, kept things simple with his passing and provided a good physical presence in the middle of the park. He has gone backwards at a pretty alarming rate in recent months. Was it a flash in the pan? Did he believe too much of the hype surrounding the England call up?

[star_manic 0]

i remember that stats from earlier in the season said that johnson covered more ground than any other player in the premier, and we all thought that he was very good for us. would like to know where he stands in the stat league now, a lot lower i would think, with a lot less effective output. is there a reason for his decrease in effective contribution to the team effort? he is playing like a different player to earlier in the season.

[CDMullins 436]

[quote user="grefstad"]

Cost nothing? I assume he is getting paid, and probably a more then decent salary given he was on a Bosman. I expect more from a professional footballer. More effort at least. I can tolerate he is not the best midfielder around, but his efforts is not good enough.

Looks like he does not give a damn, and is just waiting for his end-of-season bonus for staying up.

[/quote]

 

Dont be pedatic

 

 

[Shack Attack 0]

The problem that Johnson, and other English midfielders of his ilk, faces is that his role is becoming increasingly obsolete in the modern game. The midfield tends to be split in two (especially when teams play with one up front) with specialist attacking and defending midfielders of which he is neither. He still merits a place in our side because the style in which we play (4-4-2, direct, attacking) needs midfielders with ''a good engine'' but as and when teams work us out a little better and we need to change style he may find himself with less time on the pitch.

 

You only have to look at the example of Scott Parker to see what an English midfielder needs to add to his game these days. Formerly a fairly conventional English style box to box midfielder he had to reinvent himself as a holding midfielder to really get any recognition. Even someone like Steven Gerrard who epitomises that old style English midfielder (strong in the tackle, box to box, good in the air, an eye for a goal) has been shifted around the Liverpool and England midfield by various managers. The idea of playing Bryan Robson on the left hand side of midfield would have been deemed ridiculous but the game has changed.

 

Johnson is a long way away from the three players mentioned above but he faces the same problems that they do in the most important area of the modern day football pitch. Control the midfield and more often than not you will win the game. I still think we could do with a really stong and tactically disiplined holding midfielder who can pass a bit but I guess they cost a fair amount of money!

[Jacko 0]

Couldn''t agree more with that post Shack. Excellent stuff. It wouldn''t surprise me, if the rumours we were in for Bridcutt at Brighton in January did have foundation. He is a disciplined player with excellent passing ability. Hence why Swansea were in for him as well.

[lake district canary 0]

Johnson and Morison are two players who have gone off the boil, for whatever reason.    It could just be a form thing, it could be that they are having to readjust their game after the initial enthusiasm has worn off.   Confidence is the key.   I remember when Johnson first came to us, he started taking all the free kicks. Obviously confident he could score - but - never hit the target (nowhere near it, mostly).   So maybe he has lost some of that confidence.   Certainly not first choice to take free kicks anymore.   Tracking back he has been found wanting.  Watching players just run away from him is not good to watch.    So he needs to get some enthusiasm back so he can get back to some of the form he showed earlier on.  

 

 

Both he and Morison to my mind came into the team thinking they were going to be the key players, but have since been shown they are not.  They will have to learn to be happy as squad players and to take their opportunities when they come along.  It''s only human to  want to feel better than the other players, but if they are that insecure that they can''t handle not being seen as the ''best'' players, then that is something they have to come to terms with, buckle down and work. 

 

 

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Great post Shack. All those who continually gripe about this message board should be forced to sit down and read it.

 

The game is continually changing and has always done so. Players have had to adapt to those changes if they want to remain in the game. Some can and some can''t. I remember back in the early 70s where the fullbacks had to change to suit what was thern the modern game. Poor old Alan Black never stood a chance of becoming our Terry Cooper.

 

Can''t really add to your post about modern day Premier League midfielders. You''ve summed it up perfectly. The midfield is more about forcing errors and intercepting than tackling. Johnson does a fair amount of that but it goes unnoticed.

 

 

[priceyrice 123]

I think in our first month or two in the prem Johnson really was a standout player, the distance he was covering was awesome, i think someone else pointed that out earlier. He did  a great job at breaking play up. Since the turn of the year i don''t think we have seen that same drive and determination from him. He seems to be off the pace of the game a bit, everytime i see a player near him get the ball that player seems a yard quicker than johnson in moving on, leaving Johnson behind. i actually think he has been one of our weak links defensively when playing. However, Lambert seems to be sticking with him recently, despite many of us beleiving his recent games have been his worse, so perhaps he offers more to the team than we can see.i don''t think johnson needs to be turned into a holding player, i think he can do a decent job as a box to box midfielder, like Etuhu or Francis, he just needs to be a bit sharper during games at closing players down and also not getting stuck in position so much

[Shack Attack 0]

Thanks Nutty that''s very decent of you. It always amazes me that those who complain about a decline of quality posts on here rarely post anything of substance themselves. They always seem to have time to wade into the latest fifteen page argument about the board though if only to moan about how bad this place is. I stay out of those threads these days (I occasionally have a look and you always seem to be enjoying yourself) as I find them pretty dull and I''d rather talk about what I consider to be the more important aspects of football. What happens on the pitch.

 

You''re absolutely right with what you say about forcing errors and intercepting being key components of winning the modern midfield battle. I think our manager understands that and it is telling that we have not had the difficulties that other teams have in getting players sent off for tackles that five years ago wouldn''t have even earned a booking. One of the most basic truths about the game of football is that you should make the pitch as big as possible when you have the ball and as small as possible when you don''t. That closing of the space when you don''t have the ball is even more important in the modern game when the sliding tackle carries such risk. Supporters may not appreciate it as much (there are few more visceral thrills in football than seeing one of your players emerge from a crunching 50-50 tackle with the ball) but positioning and tactical discipline are far more important for a modern day midfielder than being a strong tackler. I think Johnson is decent enough (he was probably built up too much at the start of the season and is being criticised too harshly now) and too many people are expecting him to perform a role that maybe doesn''t exist anymore.