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Llorente - a bit special

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Anyone else out there sees a striking resemblance in the way that Llorente plays to our super Grant Holt? He''s valued at £17.5 million on this web site so when we are an established Prem team we should be ablle to afford him for the last 3 or so years of his career!

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fernando-llorente/mwverlaufgraph/spieler_35564.html

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I get what you say with the link to Holt, they have a similar presence about them on the pitch. Llorente is obviously a much more talanted footballer and a bit quicker. i have rated him for years, prefer him over Torres (even when he could kick a football). I think i am right in saying he has outscored Torres in International football for years, I am surprised each year when no big english team makes a move for him. I think it''s rumoured Liverpool or Spurs are watching him

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I know who I would prefer.....£35m for pony tail or £17.5m for Llorente?

No contest!

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Why have you rated him for years? And ahead of Torres, who was pretty much the best striker in the world for a couple of seasons. And outscoring, he''s only played 20 games for Spain, ok he''s scored 7 and Torres has only scored 27 in over 90 (Meaning Llorente has a slightly better ratio, but Torres has been shite for nearly two years now, and has only recently been dropped from the Spain team, so two years ago his record was probably something like 25 goals in 75-80 games, just a stab in the dark.)

If Llorente was so good, why has no big club ever bought him? Don''t remember there even being any serious rumours about him joining a big club, there is probably a reason for that. Ok he''s decent enough, but do you think all the people with lots of money, in charge of buying players, and the Spain manager/s have underrated him that much? Its not like Bilbao are really rubbish, and if he''s so good, he must be their star player, so should probably have a slightly better scoring ratio.

And valued at 17 million? By who? Why is that website a reliable source of information? I don''t think they phoned up the Bilbao receptionist, to get put through to the manager to ask how much they would sell him for...

I''m not trying to have a go, but what is the point of this thread? Llorente is a decent player, is apparently valued at an amount we will not be spending on a player for a good few years, by which time he will be of absolutely zero interest to Lambert, or will have retired. He''s certainly not ''a bit special'' or quite simply he would be at a ''better'' club.

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Redknapp openly said he wanted him on last seasons transfer dealine day.LOL at GP moaning about a crap thread, the irony.

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I think people should stop referring to Carroll and Torres transfers, we all know they were over inflated fees, for players who were pretty decent, and have failed to impress for their clubs.

You really think Chelsea or Liverpool would have bought either of those players if they had known what impact they would have? Of course they wouldn''t... Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn''t it, of course we can all look back at past events, but we can''t change them. What if Liverpool bought Llorente, and he did worse than Carroll has done? And Carroll had kept up his half decent scoring record/performances at Newcastle, people would have been saying why didn''t they sign him?

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Thanks for that bit of research GP. I must be thinking about his goal to game ratio in past few seasons. It just seems that everytime i see him play he has a good game.  I rememeber he was 3rd choice striker i think for spain at the last world cup, but when he came on he was quality i thought, far better than a very poor Torres.Your right in that a big club would have signed him if he really was special. My  point is that i have always prefered him to torres. I just don''t rate torres that much, i think he did well with his goals at Liverpool, but he just never looked like a quality striker to me, not world class, and i think we are seeing that with the fact he can''t cope with the pressure of his huge price tag. Llorente is still fairly young, i think we will see him in the prem league yet.Regards rumours with him, i have seen him in the press a fair bit this year, i rememeber Benitez looking at him for Liverpool too.This game has been quite good, Bilbao have really impressed me

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How much did those Bilbao guys want it tonight.The work rate of the whole team was phenominal!!

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Grant Holt wasn''t good enough for the premiership, not before he joined Norwich. Lambert, the players around him, have made Holt what he is today. Obviously he had it in him, but I doubt any top Prem side would really want to take the gamble on him now, he''s nearly 31, and before joining Norwich was only a half decent Championship-good League One players.

And just looked up the Redknapp-Llorente info, seems he was a back up target after they couldn''t sign someone else, suppose that player must also be a bit special? Must mean Saha is as well I guess. Clubs with money, sign the players they want, you really think Bilbao have the finances to reject fairly decent offers? Or offer him high enough wages to keep him interested in staying there? I guess he is Basque, and that is probably a pretty good reason for staying at Bilbao, but it hasn''t stopped other Basque players from playing elsewhere has it? (Like Alonso I believe). Like I said, Llorent is a decent enough player, but if he''s ''a bit special'', well, I think you must regard a lot of players very very highly....

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]  He''s certainly not ''a bit special'' or quite simply he would be at a ''better'' club.[/quote]Bilbao are fifth in La Liga. They could be in the Champions League next season. He''s not playing for a poor team by any means as tonights game showed fairly clearly.

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Fair enough priceyrice, he has pretty much been better for the past two seasons at least, Torres has been/was getting into the Liverpool, Spain and then Chelsea team on past form/reputation. Only on rare occasions has he actually added something worthy of his previous self to the perfomance.

Benitez probably did want him, like Wenger buying French players, he seemed to want as many Spanish players as he could muster. And at 27, he may very well still get a shot in the Premiership, perhaps Chelsea, or Man.U will go for him. Both could probably do with a player like him, Berbatov is out of favour, Welbeck has faded a bit, leaving Rooney and Hernandez to do most of the (strikers) scoring. Chelsea, with Drogba ageing and Torres being very poor, need a couple of decent strikers, and for anything under £20 million, Llorente would be well worth the chance.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]Grant Holt wasn''t good enough for the premiership, not before he joined Norwich. Lambert, the players around him, have made Holt what he is today. Obviously he had it in him, but I doubt any top Prem side would really want to take the gamble on him now, he''s nearly 31, and before joining Norwich was only a half decent Championship-good League One players.

And just looked up the Redknapp-Llorente info, seems he was a back up target after they couldn''t sign someone else, suppose that player must also be a bit special? Must mean Saha is as well I guess. Clubs with money, sign the players they want, you really think Bilbao have the finances to reject fairly decent offers? Or offer him high enough wages to keep him interested in staying there? I guess he is Basque, and that is probably a pretty good reason for staying at Bilbao, but it hasn''t stopped other Basque players from playing elsewhere has it? (Like Alonso I believe). Like I said, Llorent is a decent enough player, but if he''s ''a bit special'', well, I think you must regard a lot of players very very highly....[/quote]Guiseppe Rossi From Villarreal

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[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Gingerpele"]  He''s certainly not ''a bit special'' or quite simply he would be at a ''better'' club.[/quote]Bilbao are fifth in La Liga. They could be in the Champions League next season. He''s not playing for a poor team by any means as tonights game showed fairly clearly.[/quote]

No, he''s not at a poor team, in fact I think I said that already, but how much money do Bilbao have? And based on spending, and competitiveness (ignoring Euro results, as English teams have been shocking this year), there are quite a few teams above Bilbao in the English league, obviously the Champions League/Europa League kind of suggest otherwise, but I can''t imagine Bilbao have more money to spend than any of the top 7, probably not even any more than Sunderland/Villa. And while playing, and the club he''s at may be very important, if even say Newcastle offered Bilbao the £17.5 million (which they could easily afford, if their owner didn''t eat it all up), they could then probably offer him a higher wage, and possibly a decent chance of success in the FA Cup, or even Europa League.

Europe this season, has seen the English teams falter, I''m not exactly sure why, it can''t be because their not good enough, half the players were good enough for teams in other countries, might just be luck, wrong tactics, putting the Premiership above European competition, probably a mixture of all of that and more... Bilbao aren''t rubbish, not by a long shot, but I think I could easily name 10+ teams in England, France, Spain and Italy that are ''better'' or simply richer than them.

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Maybe he hasn''t left because he doesn''t want to? He was born in the region and has been at the club for about 15 years iirc. That''s a hell of a long time. From what little I know Athletic Bilbao don''t have money worries they aren''t big spenders and have a very productive youth academy. It''s not unknown for players of his talent to stay at the club for their whole careers. Exteberria joined the club as a teenager and played for them for 15 consecutive season despite being linked with other bigger clubs in Spain.

As for the money side of it well English clubs may pay more but we also have a much higher tax rate and cost of living so who knows maybe he is perfectly happy where he is so they can slap a massive price on his head to put clubs off.

Davo

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]Did you just manage a post without insulting me CD? Wow, maybe i''m more Ill than I thought....[/quote]

 

I could pick your posts to bits, but I just cant be arsed.

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The other strange fact is that all of the starting line up and subs for Bilbao are from the Basque country, amazing in this day and age...has a Norwich team ever been solely mad up of Norfolk lads? I bet not. Even in 1905.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]

... And valued at 17 million? By who? Why is that website a reliable source of information? I don''t think they phoned up the Bilbao receptionist, to get put through to the manager to ask how much they would sell him for... [/quote]Ohh, it must be accurate. Have a look at these selected highlights from the Norwich City squad.Jed Steer - £50,000(I doubt will be selling him for this price)Simon Lappin - £650,000(Quick, someone let The Championship they can have him for this bargain price!!)Kyle Naughton - £3.1M(Pretty sure if this was the real asking price, a deal would have been done by now to keep him at FCR)Predicting and comparing transfer prices for players is something that annoys me a little. People discuss transfer fees as a like-for-like comparison on the quality of the player. But there are so many different factors, for example;* Length of the players current contract.* Age.* How motivated the selling club is.* League / budget of the buying club (sad, but true. I recon we would have got Elliott Bennett a lot cheaper if we had not been promoted)At the end of the day, a player is worth on the amount of money a clubs wants to buy at, and a selling club wants to agree.I think this is one of the reasons why so many transfers are now "undisclosed" - I bet Chelsea wished the world didn''t know how much they paid for Torres.

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[quote user="CDMullins"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Did you just manage a post without insulting me CD? Wow, maybe i''m more Ill than I thought....[/quote]

 

I could pick your posts to bits, but I just cant be arsed.

[/quote]

You really are very strange, you act like you don''t care ''I just cant be arsed'' while acting all high and mighty like your better than me, yet you pick up on so much of what I say. Why do you think your better than me? Don''t try and claim otherwise, every post of yours directed towards me suggests that, you post something along the lines of Hoolahan being rubbish (or at least no where near good enough for the premiership) and despite 98% of fans disagreeing with you, and oh suppose I best not mention Lambert because thats a cop out, but you said it, you must be right, the rest of us know nothing...

The way you act in response to me, is quite frankly pathetic, and pretty much trolling, i''m also being a bit silly by ever replying to you. Just give up, your not better than me, your opinion doesn''t mean more than mine. If you disagree, disagree thats absolutely fine, but try actually arguing your point rather than just posting 1/2 line insults that basically amount to you thinking your better than me. (And no i''m not angry, or getting stressy, because i''m sure you or others will be thinking that, as i''ve said before I don''t get angry and things said by people on internet forums, no point, I don''t know who you are, so why would what you say matter? Its not even like everything I write/say/do on here actually represents the real me anyway, its a internet forum....)

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[quote user="spencer 1970"]The other strange fact is that all of the starting line up and subs for Bilbao are from the Basque country, amazing in this day and age...has a Norwich team ever been solely mad up of Norfolk lads? I bet not. Even in 1905.[/quote]

I think they run like that, don''t think they ever have non-basque players, although I could be wrong. Not quite the same as Norwich/Norfolk, Spain/Basque is a bit more important, they still have their slightly different language, a fairly big football club who only run with basque players etc. There is probably a few more Basque players about as well, not sure how many players from Norfolk are in the top four divisions...

And Davo, he probably does want to stay, I did say in one post, the whole Basque thing is probably a very good reason to stay, they obviously are going to have a loyalty to that club that they can''t have to any other. But still, money talks. I know no ''normal'' job is anything like football, but still, if a ''bigger'' company came in and offered you a higher wage, even if you loved your current job, the location etc, it would still be hard to turn down the higher wage (especially if it were quite a bit higher). Now obviously some footballers are loyal, playing, the club there playing for is as important as money (The Rangers players taking 75% wage cuts for example, the obviously don''t want Rangers to go under)(Huckerby even, in his book he was going on about just wanting to play, then when at Norwich he was more than willing to take pay cuts to stay.), but someone who can be described as ''a bit special'' at a club, which despite being stable and fairly good, isn''t a ''top club'' (like I said, easy to name 10+ teams in England, Spain, Italy & France that are richer or ''better''), you would have thought someone would have splashed a little cash on him. Other players, that I can think of that showed such loyalty, were either at top clubs (Giggs & Scholes at Man.U and Maldini at AC for example) or didn''t have too many other options, or at least no ''better'' options. I''m just saying if Llorente is that good (and I think he''s good, definatly not saying he''s bad in any way), a ''big club'', Man.U, Madrid, PSG, AC would have bought him by now. Spurs may have tried, but I doubt they tried that hard, as ''arry doesn''t like to spend ''too much'' on one player, probably why he bought Saha, and not someone more expensive in January, he already has Adebayor and wants to sign him permanently, could he really afford to spend anything more than he spent of Saha. He actually signs players, in general, for pretty decent amounts of money, if Bilbao don''t need to sell, they were never/are never going to let their start striker go on the cheap are they, Spurs probably/maybe don''t have the buying power, or just didn''t want to risk it.

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Llorente has been a top La Liga striker for a number of years. He''s reached double figures in each of the past 5 seasons and has scored at around a goal every other game in most competitions (except in Europe where his goalscoring record is simply incredible). As one could see last night, he is a fantastic number 9 who is good in the air, on the ground and in the channels. He''s 6ft5, strong, quick and is genuinely two footed (he is naturally left footed).He, like all other Athletic Bilbao players (they have a quota whereby only Basque born and/or raised players can play for Bilbao), is Basque through and through. Bilbao is infamous for it''s fantastic youth academy and their ability to produce fantastic and, perhaps most importantly, loyal players. Whilst not all players come through the academy, some are bought from local teams, Llorente has played for Bilbao since he was 10 (he is now 27) and is an ardent supporter of the club. His talent, value and loyalty has made him a difficult player to sign with Bilbao quoting prices of €30m + to Liverpool and Chelsea in the past. Given the stature of the club, Bilbao very rarely need to sell players and it is commonly accepted that players can go if they choose to and can raise good funds for the club (this is of course a much different policy to their "smaller" rivals Real Sociedad). This might explain why he has not "moved" to a "bigger club", but one should note that comparisons to other countries and clubs is not really possible with clubs in Spain like Bilbao. Effectively they are one of a kind. Bilbao have struggled over the past couple of years. Infact they flirted with relegation once or twice, but they have built a whole new team of young players over the past 3 or so seasons including Llorente but not to mention the magnificent Javi Martinez, Iturraspe, Muniain, Toquero and Iraola. Furthermore they changed managers over the summer from Camparros, who oversaw an improving although ultimately low scoring side to the former Chile boss Bisela. Bisela is renowned for playing all out attacking football and playing a back 3 (as was seen for much of last night), and the change has been remarkable. Bilbao have played some amazing football this season and have gone toe-to-toe with some of the big guns in the league, and hopefully long may that continue.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"][quote user="CDMullins"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Did you just manage a post without insulting me CD? Wow, maybe i''m more Ill than I thought....[/quote]

 

I could pick your posts to bits, but I just cant be arsed.

[/quote] You really are very strange, you act like you don''t care ''I just cant be arsed'' while acting all high and mighty like your better than me, yet you pick up on so much of what I say. Why do you think your better than me? Don''t try and claim otherwise, every post of yours directed towards me suggests that, you post something along the lines of Hoolahan being rubbish (or at least no where near good enough for the premiership) and despite 98% of fans disagreeing with you, and oh suppose I best not mention Lambert because thats a cop out, but you said it, you must be right, the rest of us know nothing... The way you act in response to me, is quite frankly pathetic, and pretty much trolling, i''m also being a bit silly by ever replying to you. Just give up, your not better than me, your opinion doesn''t mean more than mine. If you disagree, disagree thats absolutely fine, but try actually arguing your point rather than just posting 1/2 line insults that basically amount to you thinking your better than me. (And no i''m not angry, or getting stressy, because i''m sure you or others will be thinking that, as i''ve said before I don''t get angry and things said by people on internet forums, no point, I don''t know who you are, so why would what you say matter? Its not even like everything I write/say/do on here actually represents the real me anyway, its a internet forum....)[/quote]

 

Right Ok,

 

Firstly you state this thread is ''pointless'' then proceed to stick your 2p in over and over again.

 

 

You also seem to the think the more words you use the more valid your point is.

 

 

You slag the OP off for claiming his £17 Million value, then put your own ''Under £20 Million'' valuation on him.

 

 

Then you go on about Bilbao having money to spend on players, thats not really relavant considering they only sign Basque players. And for those asking, although they still only play players from the Basque region, it as been relaxed a little and players with Basque family are allowed to play for them.

 

Your argument for Llorente, not been special is because Redkapp signed Saha?

 

You contradict yourself, first you say Llorente is as special as Saha, and then say hes well worth the chance at Chelsea or United!

 

Thats just from this thread alone.

 

Regarding me, firstly get your facts right, I dont think Hoolahan is ''rubbish'', I just think Hoolahan is as good as 98% of people on this board. Before bleating about what I do or dont know, go through all my posts not-Hoolahan related and see where Im not talking sense. If you really want to question me, I spent from the age of 12-17 at professional clubs, from then I played County and Semi Pro-Football, I am also a qualified referee ad have the written half of my UEFA B Coaching Licence, aswell as studying Sport Science. Id think in this time ive probably picked up more knowledge than you have, sat behind your PC playing Football Manager and posting drivvel on the Pinkun.

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[quote user="spencer 1970"]The other strange fact is that all of the starting line up and subs for Bilbao are from the Basque country, amazing in this day and age...has a Norwich team ever been solely mad up of Norfolk lads? I bet not. Even in 1905.[/quote]its not a strange fact, its in the clubs make up that they are only allowed to sign basque players... they have never had a foreigner play for them.If they make the champions league and win the Copa Del Rey that says something!we need to be scouring Cawston for talent now!

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="spencer 1970"]The other strange fact is that all of the starting line up and subs for Bilbao are from the Basque country, amazing in this day and age...has a Norwich team ever been solely mad up of Norfolk lads? I bet not. Even in 1905.[/quote]its not a strange fact, its in the clubs make up that they are only allowed to sign basque players... they have never had a foreigner play for them.If they make the champions league and win the Copa Del Rey that says something!we need to be scouring Cawston for talent now![/quote]Apart from Venezuelan Fernando Amorebieta, who is in there current squad?

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GP... you have a very flawed logic in your thought that if Llorente was world class someone else would have brought him. How do you know people haven''t tried and Llorente turned them down?

Look at Francesco Totti, IMO, one of the most gifted players of his generation, could have moved to one of the traditional superpowers of football a hundred times but chose to stay with Roma.

The club someone plays for doesn''t mean they''re not a quality player.

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